The proof of 3 Salat in Quran

The_Guided_One

See parts 11 and 16 here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html

Yes i read it, also i read this after i investigated my own research and i have put some of this research in my own research, i believe it is you who wrote this.

I still do not understand what you think is the wusta prayer. Maybe my English is not very good, so i can make a mistake,i try not to make mistakes.

The_Guided_One

Yes i read it, also i read this after i investigated my own research and i have put some of this research in my own research, i believe it is you who wrote this.

I still do not understand what you think is the wusta prayer. Maybe my English is not very good, so i can make a mistake,i try not to make mistakes.

Also Maghrib is translated as the setting of the sun, as i understand. So li duluk, can it also mean the setting of the sun?

The_Guided_One

Not necessarily, for example Salaam which is in 1010 is more of a greeting between the dwellers of Paradise among malaika who descend upon them from every gate and man.
Do not get too bent up on one word and its definition the Quran uses different terms to convey kneeling, in fact, bowing down and sitting also fit the context of prayer and you will find this in a few places in the Quran.

When did Allah command US to go thru a gate brother?
Let us focus on understanding what WE are commanded to. We will not be asked about what the other did.
I have discussed in my previous post 1.standing, 2.sitting and 3.lying on your side which are interchangeable with 1.standing, 2.kneeling/bowing and 3.prostrating.
If you check the root for the arabic equivalent of lying on your side in Arabic lexicons you will find that it entails lying on the face as well hence prostrating.

You are thinking way too deep into the description. Dawood simply fell down bowing in humility. This gives us a clearer idea of what bowing might be perhaps kneeling on your hands.

No they are telling us to recite from the Quran.
holding fast to the Quran is an expression.
Although it would make sense to hold your book while you are reading from it, right?
Many people have misunderstood salat.

Salat holds two components Supplication and Remembrance

Supplication the recital of key prayers from the Quran which are instructed by Allah for the believers to say. It includes standing, sitting and lying on one?s side. It is initiated by glorification and terminated by more glorification/ His Praise
It is followed by the remembrance as it is mentioned in Surah 4. After the prostration from the supplication comes the remembrance which involves the Recital/Reading of Quran. Allah instructs us to read what is easy of the Quran. This is for obvious reasons to fit the Reading within the window of time given for salat and to be able to absorb what is being recited if we are referring to dawn and evening. If you are upholding Al-wusta then you might have the time to go for a longer Surah. This is also terminated by more glorification.
.

I also searched for all the Rabbana ayaats and Allhuma indicating supplication of believers. Those are prayers
Do you speak Arabic?

Again, I think it depends whether you are in supplication or remembrance. In supplication you are calling unto your Lord directly, so it would not make sense to include Qul or say.
Though if you were in Remembrance and you were reciting an ayaat I don?t see why you should omit or skip words from the Quran.

Do you get me?
The understanding of what I am relating, is contingent upon accepting the reality of salat encompassing two ?modes? ?Dialogue? and then upholding of The Reading

Yes I use the same ayaats myself during supplication and omit reciting qul from those ayaats containing the word say. But when I am Recting the Quran during Remembrance I recite verbatim what is in front of me.
Brother I think your approach is to look at Sunni culture and filter it through the Quran to see what is correct and what is wrong as pertaining the deen. But that approach is obsolete. Just focus on the Quran alone and don?t be concerned with filtering through the traditional repertoire.
This question has nothing to do with the deen

Again same concept as above don?t look through the traditionalist sectarian approach and attempt to filter it through the Quran. It's a hassle and it is an erroneous assumption. What you are doing is essentially assuming that the things that are practiced by the sectarians originate from the Quran. This for most things is definitely not true.

I wouldn?t rely on his interpretation for all cases. I have stated to him before that some words change meaning depending on context. This is not particularly Wakas but some people seek one universal definition that fits in every instance in the Quran. That premise is absolutely absurd.
Not true at all.
There are many ayaats in which Allah describes the believers praying the prayers which I pray in my salat.

Think about what you are saying brother calm down. La ilma means ?No knwoledge? why would you use that in your salat? And why would you repeat something the Angels say to Allah after they were humbled?
No you should not replace that at all.
Just glorify Allah how you see the righteous glorifying Allah in the Quran and how Allah instructs you to glorify Him.

Subhane rabijel ala or Subhane Rabijel azim or Subhaneke Allahume or Rabbana
or whatever else is used in the Quran is perfectly sound. Do not stress over these minor nitty gritty details.

All these questions to me brother, just show an obsession with tradition. Forget about comparing what traditionalist do with Quran. Just focus on Quran brother.

In Shaa Allah just means ?if God wills?(paraphrased translation).
Maybe I am not understanding the question well, but?
?How could you not know what in Shaa Allah means if you have read Quran?
You have no knowledge nor control over the future so you cannot claim with certainty anything about the future unless Allah wills it to be so. Other than that you are just boastfully making assertions in arrogance and God does not like the arrogant.

Fine, but do not be so obsessed with comparison between sectarian islam and the unadulterated pure Message conveyed in Quran Alone. Just follow Quran alone and submit to the One Who Guides so that He can direct you to the proper understanding of the matter.

It just a plead for forgiveness from Allah.
What is your native language??
If it is not Arabic why are you so obsessed with repeating words and phrases you cannot understand?
That is not what salat is about. If you are reciting words in Arabic and they resound no meaning to you. You have misunderstood the point of salat.
Pray in a language you understand and can speak fluently

I hope Allah aids me in saying what is good.

Peace

Selam brother, thank you for replying

It might look like i am obsessed with a lot of question, i want to make clear that i am learning and want to find the truth, the questions i have are needed so i can understand the real Islam and understand the Quran. I am investigating the salah times and what to say in prayer so i am very glad to hear your opinion.

Do you think i am correct about this, because i have learnt to pray giving selam right and left
I believe that Allah clearly tells us to use ayet from Quran to pray and to not to turn our head east and west in surah 2177 (surah 2144 already tells us that the direction of prayer is changed). Surah 679 -681, explains this too, i think.Important is Not to mention any other names than the names of Allah subhanahu wa ta ala in the prayer.

Why i think 1010 is how prayer should be is because i learnt to use Subhaneke Allahume as beginning in the prayer, also this ayet says they end with El hamdulilahi Rabi Alamin, i think that this we should say in salah. The Subhaneke Allahume is already in the prayer and is prayed by most Muslims as first and then El fatiha. Giving Selam to Allah i think is also very good, as i see it here are 3 stages described and it is said the ones who are in heaven pray this way to Allah. Or at least have these 3 things in their prayer. Why not assume that when they are in Heaven, they know the right way to pray and why would Allh mention this if not to show us, clearly the ending with el hamdulilahi Rabi Alemin is described for a reason.

Allah did not command us to go thru a gate, i used this ayet to explain the meaning of sudju, in my opinion i see that this also can be being humble or going thru the gate with heads down. So i see more definitions in sudju, that is why i would to know the real meaning of ruku, are there more definition about that too? I keep investigating and reading Quran.
And Surah 3824 is translated to bowing in prostration in Arabic Ve Harre Raki'an Enab, no sudju, but raki'an, why? I still do not get this.

About holding the book, this question was, because i saw an arab on youtube who holds Quran while praying and it had similarities with how jews pray. His explanation is that these verses mean to hold the Quran while praying

Very nice what you write about salat, what are the key prayers? El fatiha and the shorter surah in Quran? This is very important for me, because i had a dream and was told to search for keys. I think this is relevant to my prayers. I will read surah 4 again, to understand better.

I do not speak arabic, but i learn sometimes a word of 2 just by reading Quran and using ayet in prayers, like lejla and nahar, i learned that and more words. I also search and will keep on searching for ayet to use in prayer. When i read Quran and i get tears in my eyes, because Prophets used to say this ayet, than i know that this should be a part of prayer, and you are right about Qul, i think the same.You say i just can use forgive me in any language?

So you say, first you pray and after that you kneeel or sit down and read Quran, is this what you mean , the 2 modes? So you use the same ayet for prayer as me, that is really nice to hear.

Brother i do not know the sunni way of Islam, i never read any hadith book. I became Muslim a few months ago. But I had love for Islam for many years. So I try not to make any mistakes. I have learnet praying the wrong way, like sunnis and now i corrected this.

I was not sure about Subhane rabbijel azim and Subhane rabijel ala, because i was not sure if it was from the Quran, l azim is in Quran, but is Subhane rabije l azim in Quran? And how did this become a part of the prayer i do not understand. I am reading the Quran now for second time. I belive subhaneke Allahume is better.

My question was in 17111 what is the meaning of tekbir and should we say Allahu Ekber? I do not know anything about tradition, i just wonder.

About In Shaa Allah, that was very dumb statement from me, i did find it in Quran, i was not sure if it was from the Quran or not, because i had read something else what was translated by Gods will. I do not know which surah it exactly was, it is in the first 10 surah, In shaa Allah.

I speak many languages, but not arabic, i want to use arabic in my prayer, because i think it is the right way. And when i pray i know what the surah means, not every word can i translate, but the meaning of the ayet i know and i try and search the way it is pronounced and i try to say it right. It is not very difficult, it takes me what longer, but i feel good using arabic in prayer and i learn words using the arabic prayer. I also want to begin a study arabic. But i understand your point, if you do not know what you are saying it is pointless in a prayer. But i will take your advice and i will pray in my own language the ayet i am not sure if i pronounce well

Thank you very much for taking time to discuss these issues with me, i appreciate it and thank you

Selam

Wakas

Yes i read it, also i read this after i investigated my own research and i have put some of this research in my own research, i believe it is you who wrote this.

I still do not understand what you think is the wusta prayer. Maybe my English is not very good, so i can make a mistake,i try not to make mistakes.

Perhaps your confusion arises by thinking there is a "wusta prayer" in the first place. In my view it's like trying to make a square peg (wusta prayer) fit in a round hole (Quran) - it just doesn't fit.

In that article it links to this post
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.msg195966#msg195966

The_Guided_One

Perhaps your confusion arises by thinking there is a "wusta prayer" in the first place. In my view it's like trying to make a square peg (wusta prayer) fit in a round hole (Quran) - it just doesn't fit.

In that article it links to this post
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.msg195966#msg195966

It does fit if it is the prayer described in surah 1779. I already explained this in my main post.

HP_TECH

Perhaps your confusion arises by thinking there is a "wusta prayer" in the first place. In my view it's like trying to make a square peg (wusta prayer) fit in a round hole (Quran) - it just doesn't fit.

In that article it links to this post
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.msg195966#msg195966

It does fit if it is the prayer described in surah 1779. I already explained this in my main post.

Hello Wakas,

It does indeed fit.

The Guided one and I are referring to the prayer before dawn between al isha and alfajr prayers.

Recall Surah 73

Indeed, your Lord knows that you stand (a little) less than two-thirds (of) the night, and half of it and a third of it and (so do) a group of those who (are) with you. And Allah determines the night and the day. He knows that not you count it, so He has turned to you, so recite what is easy of the Quran. He knows that there will be among you sick and others traveling in the land seeking of (the) Bounty (of) Allah, and others fighting in (the) way (of) Allah. So recite what is easy of it, and establish the prayer and give the zakah and loan Allah a loan goodly. And whatever you send forth for yourselves of good, you will find it with Allah. It (will be) better and greater (in) reward. And seek forgiveness (of) Allah. Indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

lostINtheWORLD

Please stop trolling and bring relevant arguments to the discussion.
Leave ALL the trolling and jeering at the login page.

Thank you

Why do you think I'm trolling?

After decreased from 5 to 3 salats, why not from 3 to 1, or better, 0 ?

HP_TECH

Why do you think I'm trolling?

After decreased from 5 to 3 salats, why not from 3 to 1, or better, 0 ?

Please don't speak to me

The_Guided_One

Please don't speak to me

LOL I wish that was possible, but in my other posts he actually is trying to defend the hadith books http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608479.10

HP_TECH

Selam brother, thank you for replying

Salaam brother,

No thanking necessary between us.

It might look like i am obsessed with a lot of question, i want to make clear that i am learning and want to find the truth, the questions i have are needed so i can understand the real Islam and understand the Quran. I am investigating the salah times and what to say in prayer so i am very glad to hear your opinion.

That is great, we are all still learning after all. My advice though is to pace yourself, because it seems to me you are in a bit of a haste.

Do you think i am correct about this, because i have learnt to pray giving selam right and left
I believe that Allah clearly tells us to use ayet from Quran to pray and to not to turn our head east and west in surah 2177 (surah 2144 already tells us that the direction of prayer is changed). Surah 679 -681, explains this too, i think.Important is Not to mention any other names than the names of Allah subhanahu wa ta ala in the prayer.

Yes, I believe we should pray according to what Allah teaches. And Allah teaches us through His Words. I believe the Quran does mention to remember Allah as he taught us that which we before did not know. 2239
No I do not think that is referring to literally moving your head east and west.
It is an expression to convey not being obsessed with directionality because righteousness is not determined by one's position in prayer but by faith, and deeds of righteousness.

Why i think 1010 is how prayer should be is because i learnt to use Subhaneke Allahume as beginning in the prayer, also this ayet says they end with El hamdulilahi Rabi Alamin, i think that this we should say in salah. The Subhaneke Allahume is already in the prayer and is prayed by most Muslims as first and then El fatiha. Giving Selam to Allah i think is also very good, as i see it here are 3 stages described and it is said the ones who are in heaven pray this way to Allah. Or at least have these 3 things in their prayer. Why not assume that when they are in Heaven, they know the right way to pray and why would Allh mention this if not to show us, clearly the ending with el hamdulilahi Rabi Alemin is described for a reason.

I do the same but I do not say Salaam when prostrating only because I feel in the Quran that is a greeting amongst believers. It is not a glorification.
When you prostrate in concept you are showing humility and complete submission. When you prostate or draw near to Allah you should glorify Him further.
Salaam is a greeting, not a glorification brother.
You are free to do as Allah guides you to understand through prayer and supplication, to me however it does not seem practical.

Allah did not command us to go thru a gate, i used this ayet to explain the meaning of sudju, in my opinion i see that this also can be being humble or going thru the gate with heads down. So i see more definitions in sudju, that is why i would to know the real meaning of ruku, are there more definition about that too? I keep investigating and reading Quran.
And Surah 3824 is translated to bowing in prostration in Arabic Ve Harre Raki'an Enab, no sudju, but raki'an, why? I still do not get this.

I understand why you chose it but I said what I said because that ayaat has nothing to do with the ayaats that are indicating standing, bowing and prostrating in PRAYER.
You should focus on ayaatin that are related o the topic not outside of the topic of prayer. That is the mistake many make they want to interpret the word in every context in the same way. That is wrong because first of all one trilateral root contains vast range of meanings and these meanings change depending on context used. So if we are talking about prayer sujud will yield a different meaning than sujud in a different context like through a gate. So if you rely on a particular use in context to give meaning to another one, you may be making a huge mistake.

No the translation is NOT "bowing in prostration" use corpus.quran.com for your translations.
It is wakharra raki'an = and fell down bowing. http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=38&verse=24

In the context of prayer
raki'an is simply bowing down= kneeling down
segued is simply prostrating= lying on your face

About holding the book, this question was, because i saw an arab on youtube who holds Quran while praying and it had similarities with how jews pray. His explanation is that these verses mean to hold the Quran while praying

No it is a ridiculous explanation. Imagine all the believers gathered around the Prophet for salat did they each have to hold their own Quran while the prophet was reciting? Or did they have to surround him touching the Quran?
No. That is not what those ayaats are saying. Holding the Quran during salaat is not a commandment it is a practical thing to do for us TODAY. But it does not give a looney on youtube the right to misinterpret those ayaats.

Don't rely upon youtube to learn ANYTHING about the deen. Or ANYONE for that matter including myself. Turn to Allah, His explanation is what you should seek.

Very nice what you write about salat, what are the key prayers? El fatiha and the shorter surah in Quran? This is very important for me, because i had a dream and was told to search for keys. I think this is relevant to my prayers. I will read surah 4 again, to understand better.

The key prayers
Please re-read through most or all of each of the Surahs of these ayaats.

1780,81
17111
21315-9
2201
2283
2286
37-9,16,26,27,147
3191-194
2393,94,118
2565,66,74
7126
605

Good examples of prayers from the former an malaika

2250
1085,86
5910
4615
1724
1810
1440,41
407-9
668,11
2824

I do not speak arabic, but i learn sometimes a word of 2 just by reading Quran and using ayet in prayers, like lejla and nahar, i learned that and more words. I also search and will keep on searching for ayet to use in prayer. When i read Quran and i get tears in my eyes, because Prophets used to say this ayet, than i know that this should be a part of prayer, and you are right about Qul, i think the same.You say i just can use forgive me in any language?

Yeah you should have contact with Allah in an idiom you can understand.
Recall the Surah about not approaching Salat if intoxicated until one can understand what he/she is saying.
You cannot obey that commandment if your salat is performed in a language incomprehensible to you.
Although it is not a bad idea to practice and learn how to speak Arabic.
For example I used to recite a few surahs in Arabic and then in English to test my understanding.

So you say, first you pray and after that you kneel or sit down and read Quran, is this what you mean , the 2 modes? So you use the same ayet for prayer as me, that is really nice to hear.

No the first part is supplication or duah it is similar as what traditionalist consider duah to Allah. Traditionalist take duah to be out of the bounds of salat, they see salat only as a ritual choreographic performance. What I am highlighting is that duah is in fact the essential component of salat.
You can stand, kneel or prostrate. These are all positions of submission and humility as long as you are focused on Allah and His Glorification.
Typically I stand for however long as possible. You know, the birds submit to Allah too, with their wings outspread while they are carried by Allah Who is the only One holding them up. They are defying nature by gliding without flapping/folding their wings in a sign of submission.
Us humans don't have wings The Most Gracious has given us bipedality and the ability to stand erect. So I in unison with the birds during morning and evening stand firm as I am commanded while reciting the prayers listed above including the first Surah.
I stand for as long as I can while reciting these prayers until I am moved to tears or shivers on my skin or humility by His Tranquility down to my knees or down on my face.
I initiate with standing and proclaiming "Glory be to you O Allah!" and I conclude the supplication on my face with "All Praise be to the Lord of the Worlds." (But this is MY way)
Then I continue with the remembrance dhikr in which I stand and recite verbatim one Surah from the Quran per salat. I like to start from the 27-30th Surahs and move on from there until I complete the Book. I use this time to better understand the Quran in humility and submission. In most cases I conclude the dhikr/remembrance as I am powerlessly driven on my knees and face by the Reality and Relevance of the Truth I recite.
As always my final call is a Glorification to Allah.

It is very possible however, actually I am nearly convinced that I have switched or inverted the order of the two modes and that

the first mode should be recitation of the Book
while the second one the dhikr/remembrance should include supplication and recital of the key prayers.
See 4103 for clarification.

Brother i do not know the sunni way of Islam, i never read any hadith book. I became Muslim a few months ago. But I had love for Islam for many years. So I try not to make any mistakes. I have learnet praying the wrong way, like sunnis and now i corrected this.

You don't have to read Hadith to be familiar with sectarian Islam, you apparently do because you are asking me about all the widely used phrases and you just said you have learned praying the wrong way. Where did you learn praying the wrong way?

I was not sure about Subhane rabbijel azim and Subhane rabijel ala, because i was not sure if it was from the Quran, l azim is in Quran, but is Subhane rabije l azim in Quran? And how did this become a part of the prayer i do not understand. I am reading the Quran now for second time. I belive subhaneke Allahume is better.

See this is what I meant your obsession with validating what you know or hear from traditional Islam.

They are ALL included in the Quran there is no better or worse.(5674, 871)
I strongly recommend rereading the Quran several times front to back, back to front, using Word for Word literal translations that provide grammar, syntax, and morphology like corpus.quran.com.

My question was in 17111 what is the meaning of tekbir and should we say Allahu Ekber? I do not know anything about tradition, i just wonder.

takhbir entails magnifying/extoling greatness or even exalting.
Allahu Akbar is the traditionalist's interpretation of 2185 and 17111.
It essentially can be understood as Magnified is Allah
These ayaats are commanding the believers to simply magnify Allah.
The phrase Allahu Akbar does not exist in Quran. It does not mean that you cannot say it. Allah says ALL the Most Beautiful names belong to Him so call Him by these.
Does it matter if you say Allah Akbar or not? What do you understand that to mean?
Just glorify Allah you don't need to ask about all these phrases used by traditionalists. You say you don't know anything about tradition but brother it is obvious that more than half of your questions are about traditionalist religious phrases and whether the Quran validates them.
Don't be concerned about those things.

About In Shaa Allah, that was very dumb statement from me, i did find it in Quran, i was not sure if it was from the Quran or not, because i had read something else what was translated by Gods will. I do not know which surah it exactly was, it is in the first 10 surah, In shaa Allah.

In Shaa Allah is found in 1824

I speak many languages, but not arabic, i want to use arabic in my prayer, because i think it is the right way. And when i pray i know what the surah means, not every word can i translate, but the meaning of the ayet i know and i try and search the way it is pronounced and i try to say it right. It is not very difficult, it takes me what longer, but i feel good using arabic in prayer and i learn words using the arabic prayer. I also want to begin a study arabic. But i understand your point, if you do not know what you are saying it is pointless in a prayer. But i will take your advice and i will pray in my own language the ayet i am not sure if i pronounce well

There is nothing wrong with learning Arabic but don't say things in your prayer that you can't understand completely brother. That is was Catholics do they just recite verses in latin without having a clue about their meaning. Sure they know the gist of the verses because of repetition but if I asked most to recite what they recite in their native language they would fail miserably. Do not be like these people Guided One.

The_Guided_One

Selam brother,

First I will explain how i learned praying, it was by a book ilmihal and youtube. That is why i have these questions. The first time i was in a mosque and the only time is 5 months ago. I read in Quran that there is a verse that explains the wrong masjid, I understand that this never could have been in the time of Muhamed, he would not have allowed such masjid to exist, so it must have been written for the next generations. I live in a country where people are not wealthy like in the west, many people have no jobs and there are plenty who go to sleep hungry. When i look at my city, with 6 mosques and every village around the city also one or 2 mosques,i wonder if this is really necessary. Would not one mosque not be enough or maybe 3, it is not New York city or Moscow where i live and the city has not much practicing Muslims. I see this as showing off and Muslims are building mosques and ask Muslims to pay the electrical bill. The ezan is mostly a tape and the imam does not even call for prayer personally. Then a few weeks ago i told my father that i do not think Muslim imams really behave like they should and that they mostly want money and do not help very much. So he told me a story what he had experienced 2 years ago, he went to get member of the Islamic institute, that institute is a part of the mosques and as member you have to pay a fee. So my father wanted to pay the fee for one year, because he was not in this country for many years, the imam told him you have to pay for the previous 5 years. So my father told him,listen imam, i was never a member, why should i pay for the previous 5 years. I want to become member and pay the yearly fee, the imam said, no that is not possible. My father did not pay and was angry at the imam, the other imam who was a old friend of my father told my father please go and leave him, because my father almost attacked the imam. He could not believe how these imams only want money. So when i think about the verse i have read i see that Allah clearly mentions that such mosques will be present and that you are not allowed to go as Muslim. Also the imams believe in innovations and hadith books, so i see this as wrong teachers of Islam. Most of the people who go to the mosque in my city come to show that they are Muslim and a part of the Muslims, but they do not love each other as brothers, something what in the time of Muhamed was absolute different, a brotherhood and i would like to see Muslims like that, one for all, all for one. Do you think i am wrong for not going to the mosque?

No I do not think that is referring to literally moving your head east and west.
It is an expression to convey not being obsessed with directionality because righteousness is not determined by one's position in prayer but by faith, and deeds of righteousness.

I still think that Allah warns us about innovations, that is my logic.

I do the same but I do not say Salaam when prostrating only because I feel in the Quran that is a greeting amongst believers. It is not a glorification.
When you prostrate in concept you are showing humility and complete submission. When you prostate or draw near to Allah you should glorify Him further.
Salaam is a greeting, not a glorification brother.
You are free to do as Allah guides you to understand through prayer and supplication, to me however it does not seem practical.

I say on ruku selamun as described in surah 1010 and it is not only a greeting between Muslims, you should greet Allah too is my opinion, as described in surah 1010. Also ruku is for me bowing and putting my hands on my knees, as i learned. I do not kneel, i go from ruku to prostration.

No the translation is NOT "bowing in prostration" use corpus.quran.com for your translations.
It is wakharra raki'an = and fell down bowing. http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=38&verse=24

In the context of prayer
raki'an is simply bowing down= kneeling down
segued is simply prostrating= lying on your face

That makes sense, because fell down bowing should mean he fell on his knees and was humble as i understand. It can not mean he prostrated, there is no sudju. So what i learned about ruku, bowing with hands on my knees might be wrong. Or are there 2 different kind of ruku?

The key prayers
Please re-read through most or all of each of the Surahs of these ayaats.

Nice work! I will re read it.

There is nothing wrong with learning Arabic but don't say things in your prayer that you can't understand completely brother. That is was Catholics do they just recite verses in latin without having a clue about their meaning. Sure they know the gist of the verses because of repetition but if I asked most to recite what they recite in their native language they would fail miserably. Do not be like these people Guided One.

You are right, good advice, thanks and the other things you wrote i also understand

HP_TECH

Selam brother,

First I will explain how i learned praying, it was by a book ilmihal and youtube. That is why i have these questions. The first time i was in a mosque and the only time is 5 months ago. I read in Quran that there is a verse that explains the wrong masjid, I understand that this never could have been in the time of Muhamed, he would not have allowed such masjid to exist, so it must have been written for the next generations. I live in a country where people are not wealthy like in the west, many people have no jobs and there are plenty who go to sleep hungry. When i look at my city, with 6 mosques and every village around the city also one or 2 mosques,i wonder if this is really necessary. Would not one mosque not be enough or maybe 3, it is not New York city or Moscow where i live and the city has not much practicing Muslims. I see this as showing off and Muslims are building mosques and ask Muslims to pay the electrical bill. The ezan is mostly a tape and the imam does not even call for prayer personally. Then a few weeks ago i told my father that i do not think Muslim imams really behave like they should and that they mostly want money and do not help very much. So he told me a story what he had experienced 2 years ago, he went to get member of the Islamic institute, that institute is a part of the mosques and as member you have to pay a fee. So my father wanted to pay the fee for one year, because he was not in this country for many years, the imam told him you have to pay for the previous 5 years. So my father told him,listen imam, i was never a member, why should i pay for the previous 5 years. I want to become member and pay the yearly fee, the imam said, no that is not possible. My father did not pay and was angry at the imam, the other imam who was a old friend of my father told my father please go and leave him, because my father almost attacked the imam. He could not believe how these imams only want money. So when i think about the verse i have read i see that Allah clearly mentions that such mosques will be present and that you are not allowed to go as Muslim. Also the imams believe in innovations and hadith books, so i see this as wrong teachers of Islam. Most of the people who go to the mosque in my city come to show that they are Muslim and a part of the Muslims, but they do not love each other as brothers, something what in the time of Muhamed was absolute different, a brotherhood and i would like to see Muslims like that, one for all, all for one. Do you think i am wrong for not going to the mosque?

No not at all. Especially if they deny your membership you should not try to go.
Especially if they mention any other name but Allah in their prayer.
Especially when they have corrupted the prayer and made it a 5-10 min choreographic ritual and implied that it is an end of itself.
No my friend I do not think you are wrong at all for not going to the mosque.

My masjid is my room at dawn until before sunrise, and at the going down of the sun before sunset until the darkness of the night (sometimes in the middle of the night when I wake up for Al-Wusta if I can make it & )

That makes sense, because fell down bowing should mean he fell on his knees and was humble as i understand. It can not mean he prostrated, there is no sudju. So what i learned about ruku, bowing with hands on my knees might be wrong. Or are there 2 different kind of ruku?

If you are talking about ruku in context of salat I believe it makes sense that it means kneeling, kneeling shows true humility and renders more sense in context.

Peace brother!

The_Guided_One

If you are talking about ruku in context of salat I believe it makes sense that it means kneeling, kneeling shows true humility and renders more sense in context.

Peace brother!

Arabic word for kneeling is djasijeten and not ruku in surah 4528 we can read You will see every community kneeling. Every community will be called to view their record. Today, you get paid for everything you have done.

So i am not sure about kneeling in prayer,i will have to investigate more

The next question is off topic, but i would like to know what you think about ruqya, i would like to go to a session of ruqya, but i am not sure and what do you think about this kind of medical treatment https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRkb_rlOuSM I do not know what the name is in English and this one is with fire https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSt74Xwj9Js

Peace brother

Wakas

peace TGO,

I never realised you referenced my article a lot. In any case, by me saying it doesn't fit I was referring to these points

From http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html

Another problem for the author's view arises with the following verse

Guard over the salawat; and the middle salat; and stand/observe dutifully for God.
So if you fear then on foot or riding, then when you are secure then remember God as He has taught you what you did not know.

Does 2239 refer to "the middle salat" or "salawat"? It will be an assumption to choose one over the other, although the flow and structure seems to favour "al salat al wusta" over "salawat" in my view. For an explanation of my view, please see this post.

Further, the Arabic form of the term "al salat al wusta" in 2238 is different to the form "salat al fajr" and "salat al isha" in 2458, and clearly indicates it is a description whilst the latter two are a specific reference, i.e.
salat al fajr ~ salat (of) fajr/dawn
salat al 3sha ~ salat (of) 3sha/evening
al salat al wusta ~ the wusta/balanced salat
Many of those who advocate a middle salat incorrectly refer to it as "salat al wusta" as if to imply it occurs in the same form as "salat al fajr"/"salat al isha" in Quran.

Lastly, the word "wusta" is superlative in 2238, meaning of the highest quality/degree, hence the more apt translation of "most balanced/equitable/just/excellent". Note that a superlative requires a comparison in context, which could explain the prior mentioned "salawat", see note.
Thus, to those who argue for it meaning "middle" it more correctly would have to mean "most middle" - thus an explanation would be required to make sense of the difference between "middle" and "most middle", if one can be found.

A more accurate translation of 1779 is shown below
Establish the salat at the setting of the sun to the darkness of the night; and the reading (of) dawn; indeed, the reading (of) dawn is witnessed.
And from the night so remain awake with it additionally for yourself, perhaps your Lord will raise you (to) a status praiseworthy.

The "with it" (Arabic bi hi) refers to a preceding masculine noun, and thus can ONLY refer to "reading" (Arabic quran). Note that "salat" is a feminine noun. Thus, the idea of "the tahajjud prayer" is not possible unless one considers it as a reading (also see 7320).

Your view and my view is similar.

HP_TECH

Arabic word for kneeling is djasijeten and not ruku in surah 4528 we can read You will see every community kneeling. Every community will be called to view their record. Today, you get paid for everything you have done.

So i am not sure about kneeling in prayer,i will have to investigate more

I would think that there are many ways in Classical Arabic to convey kneeling. Allah's Words are not limited.

Also honestly in your salat when you go from bowing to prostrating (visualize this) you kneel right before your face touches the ground. I am sure you're not just falling directly on your face brickwall

However go ahead and seek further understanding from Allah and His Book directly Self-investigation is key brother do not ever take the possibility of anyone's words being wrong for granted.
yes

The next question is off topic, but i would like to know what you think about ruqya, i would like to go to a session of ruqya, but i am not sure and what do you think about this kind of medical treatment https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRkb_rlOuSM I do not know what the name is in English and this one is with fire https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSt74Xwj9Js

Peace brother

Haha you were right it is waaay off-topic. I am not sure homeopathic medicine has had mixed reviews. Although I personally have met a person that claimed that same treatment in the first video did wonders for his back. Are you suffering from back pain? Is it spinal stenosis?
Usually for these treatments you have to frequent the same specialist for several appointments in order to have longer periods of relief and in the end I believe the pain or discomfort may eventually reoccur. These treatments are short term fixes for long-term ailments.
In the end it is up to you.
You might feel like you need a temporary relief and if you can afford a couple of sessions and it is unavoidable go right ahead.

Personally I would not do the fire one, it did not look too professional, it seemed painful and that some things could go wrong.
If you are seriously considering this treatment make sure the specialist has good reviews and knows what they are doing.

Peace

hanslan

Selam brother, i really like your picture, i laughed really good LOL

Tahajud is i think the wusta prayer, but i do not understand what you think wusta is. Night to day and day to night, i do not understand, when this is and how you come to this conclusion.

Salam brother. I'm not an arabic speaker. My conclusion is based on many readings of the translated quran, especially word by word. It did not come automatically, it was a realisation while I was contemplating on something. The key was 'wusta' is a time period that one needs to be mindful of. Reference to wusta as Asar and tahajjud does not really gel in my mind due to the long period available for both. Then the realisation just came in, what if it is the short period between night to day and day to night, a period of around 15 minutes? Then it gels with surah 'Jumaat', where when the prayer time comes you leave everything behind to fulfill the solat. Thats my conclusion. As for tahajjud it is optional for those who seek more thus it does not seem to gel with the period where one needs to be mindful of.

2 salat is also consistent with the way humans have always revered god(s)/deities in history. It has always been once in the morning and once in the evening, primarily due to 'light to dark' and 'dark to light', paired as mentioned in the Q. This conclusion is also consistent with Q as Allah's system has remained unchanged.

peace.

The_Guided_One

peace TGO,

I never realised you referenced my article a lot. In any case, by me saying it doesn't fit I was referring to these points

From http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html

Your view and my view is similar.

Selam Wakas, Yes our views are similar, and as i explained i worked for 13 hours investigating and came to this conclusion, after that i took a look on internet and found your article. So I included some research you done , to make it easy to understand.

The_Guided_One

Salam brother. I'm not an arabic speaker. My conclusion is based on many readings of the translated quran, especially word by word. It did not come automatically, it was a realisation while I was contemplating on something. The key was 'wusta' is a time period that one needs to be mindful of. Reference to wusta as Asar and tahajjud does not really gel in my mind due to the long period available for both. Then the realisation just came in, what if it is the short period between night to day and day to night, a period of around 15 minutes? Then it gels with surah 'Jumaat', where when the prayer time comes you leave everything behind to fulfill the solat. Thats my conclusion. As for tahajjud it is optional for those who seek more thus it does not seem to gel with the period where one needs to be mindful of.

2 salat is also consistent with the way humans have always revered god(s)/deities in history. It has always been once in the morning and once in the evening, primarily due to 'light to dark' and 'dark to light', paired as mentioned in the Q. This conclusion is also consistent with Q as Allah's system has remained unchanged.

peace.

Selam brother, why i think wusta is the tahajud prayer is, we have a time range for fajr and Isha prayer, but not for wusta. So my logic says this is at night. I am not sure about Juma, i did not investigate it, i will look in that soon. I am beginner and i do not know much, i am learning, so i appreciate every comment about salat.

The_Guided_One

I would think that there are many ways in Classical Arabic to convey kneeling. Allah's Words are not limited.

Also honestly in your salat when you go from bowing to prostrating (visualize this) you kneel right before your face touches the ground. I am sure you're not just falling directly on your face brickwall

However go ahead and seek further understanding from Allah and His Book directly Self-investigation is key brother do not ever take the possibility of anyone's words being wrong for granted.
yes

Haha you were right it is waaay off-topic. I am not sure homeopathic medicine has had mixed reviews. Although I personally have met a person that claimed that same treatment in the first video did wonders for his back. Are you suffering from back pain? Is it spinal stenosis?
Usually for these treatments you have to frequent the same specialist for several appointments in order to have longer periods of relief and in the end I believe the pain or discomfort may eventually reoccur. These treatments are short term fixes for long-term ailments.
In the end it is up to you.
You might feel like you need a temporary relief and if you can afford a couple of sessions and it is unavoidable go right ahead.

Personally I would not do the fire one, it did not look too professional, it seemed painful and that some things could go wrong.
If you are seriously considering this treatment make sure the specialist has good reviews and knows what they are doing.

Peace

Yes i kneel first and then prostration, but i do not stay on my knees. Yes i will search more about this.

As I read it is not only for back, every point is for something else, my head behind my ears gets swollen and i have pimples on my head where hair is, and doctor said it is dangerous, but they do not say what is is. They give me antibiotic for 2 months and after that it comes back, sometimes i have pain and my head is swollen. The pimples have some fluid in them, but it is not fat, more like water. So I pray to Allah to cure me and i take garlic as antibiotic, that helps too. Maybe ruqya will help, you never know, i have read such thinks can come from jinn.

lostINtheWORLD

There is no 5 pray at day, the answer is 0, the prayer is all allegorical...

Lazy people will always search methods to do less...