Will You Fast this coming Lunar month?
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Peace to All.
You must be aware that Ramadan bells are ringing in the Muslim world already. Come 6th of next month, the fast commences world wide.
I want to take this time to ask where each one of you stand on this.
Please answer these questions where applicable.Do you recognize the mainstream Muslims' calender as accurate?
Will You fast next lunar month?
If NO, which calendar do you follow?
And then, when will/did you fast this year?
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Peace,
Do you recognize the mainstream Muslims' calender as accurate?
I haven't researched the topic well enough to determine for myself if the mainstream calendar is accurate.
Will You fast next lunar month?
I've been debating about this. This will be my first Ramadan.
I love food, and I've been allowing myself to splurge on sweets too much lately, so I think fasting this year would be good for me (albeit my worry is that at night, I'll overeat /).
I also live at home right now and I haven't told my parents of my beliefs yet, and given how conservative they are, I'm not in a position to tell them (or tell them, ever, honestly /). If I go without eating for several hours, it's something that will definitely be noticed. I will be encouraged/forced to eat (during family dinner) a few hours before sundown too, so there's no escape. I've also not been feeling that well since I've been home. But I'm sure I can still physically manage the fast. (
If I choose not to fast, I'm also not in a position where I have the money or transportation to provide food to the less fortunate, either. So I'm confused and don't know what to do yet.
If NO, which calendar do you follow?
Not applicable.
And then, when will/did you fast this year?
If I fast I'll fast during Ramadan (I may try fasting later this year if I can't during Ramadan).
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Thank you comrox.
Good response. We share the same problem. I have also been debating whether to fast or not. From the little I have researched, I feel the Mainstream Muslim calendar is incorrect and the timing for Fast and Pilgrimage is incorrect. I have trouble deciding if the Qur'an supports Lunisolar or Lunar calendar.I also have difficulty in deciding if the fast is 10 days or full month
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Thank you comrox.
Good response. We share the same problem. I have also been debating whether to fast or not. From the little I have researched, I feel the Mainstream Muslim calendar is incorrect and the timing for Fast and Pilgrimage is incorrect. I have trouble deciding if the Qur'an supports Lunisolar or Lunar calendar.I also have difficulty in deciding if the fast is 10 days or full month
What as a Muslim, if you are truthful, gives you the authority to choose not to fast?
Where in the Quran do you see fasting left as an open choice?
What is the difference between lunisolar and lunar calendar? Please explain that.
Also explain your understanding of what the proper month of Ramadhan is as being conveyed by the Quran.Thank you
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Thank you comrox.
Good response. We share the same problem. I have also been debating whether to fast or not. From the little I have researched, I feel the Mainstream Muslim calendar is incorrect and the timing for Fast and Pilgrimage is incorrect. I have trouble deciding if the Qur'an supports Lunisolar or Lunar calendar.I also have difficulty in deciding if the fast is 10 days or full month
I assume you have read the threads and opinions on here? (Haven't gotten a chance to myself, I admit.)
What as a Muslim, if you are truthful, gives you the authority to choose not to fast?
Where in the Quran do you see fasting left as an open choice?2184 mentions that if we can fast but with difficulty, we can redeem ourselves by feeding the less fortunate. Given the extreme vagueness of the "difficulty" mentioned, it seems that it's up to our discretion to determine for ourselves if it is really too difficult to fast. Whatever the difficulty is may be different for different people. But of course, God says that fasting is better for us. So it's what we should be doing, but if we are really in a tight spot by whatever means, then we have permission to abstain.
If the "tight spot" is temporary, I see no reason why someone can't make up the fast at a later date, if they so choose (other than illness and traveling, we can see it's not decreed in the Qur'an that a person must make up fasts, but I don't think fasting on other days would be a bad decision).
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I assume you have read the threads and opinions on here? (Haven't gotten a chance to myself, I admit.)
2184 mentions that if we can fast but with difficulty, we can redeem ourselves by feeding the less fortunate. Given the extreme vagueness of the "difficulty" mentioned, it seems that it's up to our discretion to determine for ourselves if it is really too difficult to fast. Whatever the difficulty is may be different for different people. But of course, God says that fasting is better for us. So it's what we should be doing, but if we are really in a tight spot by whatever means, then we have permission to abstain.
If the "tight spot" is temporary, I see no reason why someone can't make up the fast at a later date, if they so choose (other than illness and traveling, we can see it's not decreed in the Qur'an that a person must make up fasts, but I don't think fasting on other days would be a bad decision).
Nvm sister I misunderstood. I was under the impression the OP was considering neither fasting nor observing it's expiation.
I am aware of those Signs -
What as a Muslim, if you are truthful, gives you the authority to choose not to fast?
Where in the Quran do you see fasting left as an open choice?
What is the difference between lunisolar and lunar calendar? Please explain that.
Also explain your understanding of what the proper month of Ramadhan is as being conveyed by the Quran.Thank you
Peace
Read and digest my post again. I am not refusing to fast, i acknowledge fasting as part of the Qur'anic prescription for believers. However, am skeptical on the date for fasting because for academic reasons, i find the mainstream Muslim calender on which date for fasting is tracked to be flawed. This is not a matter of me choosing not to fast or not, but rather a case of me deciding when is the right time to fast.
For the records, a lunisolar calendar take into account both the sun and the moon cycles in counting the year and months respectively whereas, the lunar calendar base the count of both year or month on the lunar cycle.
Your question on my understanding of Ramadan is not applicable since my aim of creating this thread is to better understand Ramadan from members here. I am not here to protest against fasting next lunar month, am here to decide if Fasting next month is the right thing
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Peace
Read and digest my post again. I am not refusing to fast, i acknowledge fasting as part of the Qur'anic prescription for believers. However, am skeptical on the date for fasting because for academic reasons, i find the mainstream Muslim calender on which date for fasting is tracked to be flawed. This is not a matter of me choosing not to fast or not, but rather a case of me deciding when is the right time to fast.
For the records, a lunisolar calendar take into account both the sun and the moon cycles in counting the year and months respectively whereas, the lunar calendar base the count of both year or month on the lunar cycle.
Your question on my understanding of Ramadan is not applicable since my aim of creating this thread is to better understand Ramadan from members here. I am not here to protest against fasting next lunar month, am here to decide if Fasting next month is the right thing
I don't expect a thorough explanation but your current understanding would suffice. Perhaps your understanding could bring something interesting to the table like bro layth and I's most recent posts on the topic
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg387656#msg387656
I am stuck between 2ways currently I am undecided1)On one hand I think many people erroneously associate shahrs as used by Allah in Quran with seasons. Meaning when people think of months they think of March,....., June,......, September,....., December. Then they associate these months with specific seasons Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter.
This is the type of cycle the Gregorian calendar purports. A calendar which tries to compensate for seasonal cycles.But is this the cycle which the Quran conveys?
I in my study have not found that to be the case.
I simply find the 12 shahrs to be months for which is indicators are new moons as per 936-37 and 2189.
Nowhere in the Quran to my current knowledge do I find any correlation between shahrs and season.
This means that this fixation for the months to be fixed with seasonal cycles might be a problematic fixation and that to my current understanding the months are indicated solely by new moons and seasons are irrelevant.
2)However, I am not sure whether to interpret the following ayaatin 105 as indication of application o a lunisolar calendar or confirmation of a strict lunar phase based calendar. I tend to lean against the ladder.
In which paradigm the cycle is marked by 12 crescent moonths and months distinguishable by variation in length of lunar months as this article indicates http//earthsky.org/space/lengths-of-the-lunar-months-in-2016
This could signify that Ramadhan and 4 sacred months could be correlated with the longest or shortest lunar months.
I think that these variations in lunar months can be distinguishable by the positions of the crescent moon in the night sky in a particular geographic location relative to the setting sun. Meaning if this lunar month the crescent moon is spotted closer to the setting the sun than the previous it is indicating a shorter lunar month and so forth.The above is my complete theoretical speculation.
If it is lunisolar then perhaps something as the following
https//94e177b18b9251773adf-c2d0169f63ec56d3b3479f6b06f302aa.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/images/Misc-Images/calendar-luni-solar-Feasts-grid-Master-p.pngAlthough I must clarify that in my seeking an understanding I seek to grasp how the ancient peoples could observe the count of time as theorized per my understanding of the Quran not in the modern scientific theoretic cosmological understanding.
Meaning I want to be able to prove that time could be counted by simply observing the sky without current scientific knowledge of "cosmos"
I think that is more true to the deen -
Thanks for the information. My current understanding or conviction is that the Lunar calendar cannot be used for for tracking dates. In your latest post, you seem to imply that months need not to be attached to season, undermining the major con of the Lunar calendar. But look again at Qur'an 2185, where the word Ramadan was used. Pre-Islamic Arabs did not observe Ramadan fast, but they had a month named "Ramadan" translated as "scorching heat". Ramadan like all other months indicate a unique and particular time of the year, not necessarily the 9th month of the year.
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I don't believe that God tests us by giving us riddles that we have difficulty solving. So, what is clear is that we should fast in some way or other. That means it is neither wrong not obligatory to fast in the way the majority of muslims do. As long as I don't have a better idea, I follow that way. But I believe that any other fasting (as long as it is done with true intention) is "valid" as well.
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I don't believe that God tests us by giving us riddles that we have difficulty solving. So, what is clear is that we should fast in some way or other. That means it is neither wrong not obligatory to fast in the way the majority of muslims do. As long as I don't have a better idea, I follow that way. But I believe that any other fasting (as long as it is done with true intention) is "valid" as well.
Yeah, I agree with this. This year I have planned to follow the majority fast as I haven't investigated further. Perhaps next year though, I'll have more knowledge under my belt.
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Yeah, I agree with this. This year I have planned to follow the majority fast as I haven't investigated further. Perhaps next year though, I'll have more knowledge under my belt.
Me three ! and if I am later this year driven to understand that the fast is in some other month or days I will if Allah so Wills fast those days or that month as well!!
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we are not responisble for the error of history, but what is done so done, with the name of Allah carry on fasting this month and celebrate it when it finish. we can also go against it but it will create troubles and problems and confusion of thinggs, and our first priotity to decide and act in a way without causing troubles,
i will go with the flow. i think.
but again in my understanding, the real ramzan month was somehwere in the end of december where the nights are so long , interestingly everywhere in the world this time of ten days everything is off and resting at the default. 21 to 31 dec .and usually everybody has plans to do things on this time of year. i wonder in these ten days world looks like bride , decorating lights and new year boxing day crismis day lot of things. christians jews and muslims all of them make their plans of travelling to home towns on this period as well, and nights r so long, everybody can stay hungry without feeling hungry at all. in the summer time the fast are like 20 hours long and people become lazy in work, and fight eachpther due to anger. thats y in my logic the correct timing of ramzan is in december. interestingly the history records also show prophet use to do fasting in december .
see allah always show us signs . i just suggest you guys to keep fast on this time as well as the traditional flow of whatever they decide, there is no restriction of fasting as much as u can.its a bonus .
some topics by nature are difficut to explain but easy to understand.
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INTERESTING...There is a theory as well about Ramadhan only being a 10 day fast because of several reasons including 2184 892 and .....perhaps 2196...
1)And also the command to whosever witnesses the month of Ramadhan then fast "in it" the command not being fast "it" as in the entire month.
(218517)
falyaum'hu
then he should fast in it,2)2184 The phrase days numbered---> these days are numbered in Surah 89
(21841)
ayyman
(Fasting for) days T accusative masculine plural indefinite time adverb(21842)
maddtin
numbered. ADJ accusative feminine plural indefinite passive participle3)This ten day notion is further confirmed by this theory in the command for expiation for not observing the fast. The which is to fast in "days other" instead of the command being fast in an another shahr/month.
(218410)
faiddatun
then a prescribed number REM prefixed resumption particle
N nominative feminine indefinite noun(218411)
min
of P preposition(218412)
ayymin
days N genitive masculine plural indefinite noun(218413)
ukhara
other. ADJ genitive feminine plural adjectiveEssentially the fast is being repeatedly described as "days" not a shahr although it would seem pretty straightforward that days constitute a month it is a very interesting theory. The expiation is described as number of "prescribed" days. In a lunar month the number of days can vary from 29-30. Therefore a month would not have a prescribed number of days. A prescribed number of days sounds more like the ten days prescribed in Surah 89.
Tied in with those nights you mention in December 21-31 I think we might be on to something...I am still learning.
I hope my Lord guides me ever closer even than this to His Straight Path!Brother Imran where do you get the information of December 21-31 do you have any links or references? I am very interested!
Thanks in advance! -
1)And also the command to whosever witnesses the month of Ramadhan then fast "in it" the command not being fast "it" as in the entire month.
(218517)
falyaum'hu
then he should fast in it,http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=2&verse=185
"hu" means he or it but not in it
So who witnessed al-shahr among you (all) then let him yasum it.The root ( م has the meaning of STOPPING.
So who witnessed al-shahr among you (all) then let him stop it.
I do not see any "in it" in falyasum' hu.
May Allah bless us with the understanding Al-Quran.
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Peace everyone,
I think the quranic word/term Sawm (commonly translated as fasting) has a basic meaning. And I think the basic meaning of the quranic word/term Sawm is abstinence/self-denial. But from my knowledge, the quranic word/term Sawm also has different meanings according to the different contexts where this word has been used in Al-Quran. The quranic word/term Sawm means abstinence from eating and drinking in verse 2187. On the other hand, the quranic word/term Sawm means abstinence from speaking in verse 1926. This proves that the quranic word/term Sawm doesn't only mean abstinence from eating and drinking in Al-Quran.
In verse 1926, Al-Quran suggests that the word Sawm means abstinence from speaking.
Quran 1926 "So eat and drink and be happy. If you see any human being, then say, "I have declared a fast (Sawman) for the Gracious, and I will not talk today to any of the people.
Keep in mind that I haven't studied the word/term Sawm in detail. Therefore, my knowledge is limited/little regarding the quranic word/term Sawm. As far as I know, no one in FreeMinds has written an article or an essay about Sawm from a Quranic perspective. It would be interesting to read an article that explains the following "What is Sawm according to Al-Quran." I hope someone in the forum writes such an article in the future.
By the way, I'd like to share quote about fasting here. It's a quote by St. John Chrysostom. It's an interesting and enlightening quote, in my opinion.
"For the value of fasting consists not in abstinence from food, but in withdrawing from sinful practices; since he who limits his fasting only to an abstinence from meats, is one who especially disparages it. Do you fast? Give me proof of it by your works! Is it said by what kind of works? If you see a poor man, take pity on him! If you see in enemy, be reconciled to him! If you see a friend gaining honour, envy him not! If you see a handsome woman, pass her by! For let not the mouth only fast, but also the eye, and the ear, and the feet, and the hands, and all the members of our bodies."
- St. John Chrysostom
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http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=2&verse=185
"hu" means he or it but not in it
So who witnessed al-shahr among you (all) then let him yasum it.The root ( م has the meaning of STOPPING.
So who witnessed al-shahr among you (all) then let him stop it.
I do not see any "in it" in falyasum' hu.
May Allah bless us with the understanding Al-Quran.
Good point indeed!
However what is your take on 2184? Do you think the referring to "number of days" and "prescribed number" is indicative of days and not the entire month? -
Brother Imran where do you get the information of December 21-31 do you have any links or references? I am very interested!
Thanks in advance!peace, brother HP
you always welcome my brother,infact the hints are already in quran but , the unique styling of quran does not allow it to explain things with exact dates like we use in our daily routine now a days,
the chances of ramzan month is in december due to lot of reasons,
the birth of jesus christ, the night of decree, and month of ramadan all three are events of one time frame according to quran,
the georgian calendar of jesus brith is 25th decmeber but historically its 21st or 22nd december becoz mary was away and she bring jesus christ when he was already two or three days old i think, not sure.
and when Allah talks about these nights its mean night prevail everywhere, and its a common phenomenon that the nights of decemeber are always very long , every part of world.
and if we look into islamic historical records , we also assume its decemeber when fasting events describle. by early scholars,
we all are confused about lunar month but infact calender according to God is soli-lunar in which all seasons perfect fit according to cycle, and about lunar calendar its not God made or prophet instructions, its just a adding by own personal desire of arab caliph the second omar, which is not authhorised and one can reject it if he/she want.
and the month of ramdan is in which Allah suggest us to do fasting for youme-muddat limited number of days.
so in light of all this and current tradtions everywhere suggest us, it should be 21st to 31st december,
and all are my personal analysis, Allah knows best .
may b it will help.
The conquest of Mecca (Arabic fat makkah) is the historical event when Mecca was capitulated for and conquered by Muslims on 11 December 629 CE (Julian), 18 Ramadan, 8 AH in the ancient (intercalated) Arabic calendar. Muhammad started the journey on 6 Ramadan and entered Mecca on 18 Ramadan.
On 19 Ramadan 40 AH, which would correspond to 27 January AD 661, while praying in the Great Mosque of Kufa, Ali was attacked by the Kharijite Abd-al-Rahman ibn Muljam
now look its a time frame of 30 years and early history indicates ramzan closer to december end dates, but due to weak memories may be some days are far and behind but its not a big difference the dates what i recommend is just five or ten days behind or further from both events,
we are very lucky we are in the era in which everything is in our fingertips and we can dig the history as well for confirming our findings,
God bless you.
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In verse 1926, Al-Quran suggests that the word Sawm means abstinence from speaking.
Quran 1926 "So eat and drink and be happy. If you see any human being, then say, "I have declared a fast (Sawman) for the Gracious, and I will not talk today to any of the people.
Peace Taro
Just wondering if she had a fast not to speak then how would she say that she cannot speak. To me it means that she would not speak about some specific matter.
How could we reconcile both red parts in your post?
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Peace Taro
Just wondering if she had a fast not to speak then how would she say that she cannot speak. To me it means that she would not speak about some specific matter.
How could we reconcile both red parts in your post?
Think about any times you've been through as a kid (or as an adult) when you've lost your voice (if you have). What did you do to initially communicate to others why you couldn't speak? Hand gestures? Did it work, or did people simply stare at you confused? Did you have to write it down before they finally understood?
In my experience it's very difficult to communicate clearly with hand gestures. Sure, you could always tell them beforehand if the fasting is planned (like a national suicide silence day or something; I remember observing that here in the US). But what if you don't have the preparation time to tell someone of your fast? You'll have to tell them somehow, and verbal communication is the fastest (and most effective).
I'm sure in that time, writing utensils and equipment was hard to come by. I'm sure in that time, if a person wasn't speaking, they would assume the person was ill, dying, a witch, or possessed by some time of devil.
I think it's reasonable to allow people to break their fast for the purposes of informing other people so they won't be confused or alarmed. We're not meant to cause each other harm, distress, or hardship. peace