IDOL WORSHIPPING IS THE NEW ISLAM
-
......................................
I categorize those who have the mindset of "X is true because Quran said so" as idolator of Quran, in similar manner of those who have the mindset of "X is true because Bible/Tanakh/Jesus said so" as idolator of Bible, Tanakh and Jesus respectively. The same criteria I apply to all...
What's wrong with it? Nothing...
It's their right to idolize anything or anyone that they want... as long as they don't enforce their idolatry to others who don't belief in the same idol as they are..Yes i agree with you , Jafar
idolization and religion are not separable .Idolatry is shirk .we cannot judge human Intentions .Only ALLAH subahnavtala know about the true intentions and he will judge among us on the day of judgement .i idolize Quran and i want to stick to it . -
Since you are talking about our bukharyi & co .can you give me the details of the hadith which proves the kissing of black stone .take that hadith and apply the qiyas(analogy). The hadith itself says that it is a shirk .
I am not well-read in the ahadith but I think there was a hadith about Omar (could be someone else) kissing the black stone, when people asked him why he did that as they thought it was shirk, he said that he would also have not done it if he did not saw the messenger also doing it. So clearly no shirk because who are we to judge one of the best sahaba.
BTW ,can you tell me how many Muslims around the world learn salah by the ahadith .
Everyone, they learned it from their parent and their parents from their parents but the source are the ahadith.
Then who .do you have any other GOD
that was not a question but stating something that is obvious.
I think you are wrong , for example , Alcohol is banned in few countries and few countries make it as a social affair .In both the countries there is no chaos .
I was talking about theft not alcohol. The difference between alcohol and theft is that theft ALWAYS harms others while alcohol not always.
Things that harms others are always a forbidden by Allah.
So drinking while you have a responsible duty is forbidden by Allah, because this creates chaos, unjust, evil, etci think evil is situational and of personal choice .
I do not think so. There is a difference between real evil and what you think is evil.
I cannot talk about the things which i cannot prove .i can comment on the things which are in front of me
BTW
quran says
Verse 2.141
That is a nation which has passed on. It will have what it earned, and you will have what you have earned. And you will not be asked about what they used to do.So why we have to bother about Musa alaisalam
Because you are "claiming" that your salaat is the correct one and that the word salaat in the quran means your way of prayer and not how I do it or how Christians do it or how atheists do it.
So if you are right then I like to know how Musa did his salaat, is it the same as yours?Thanks Yes
that was not a compliment
You have not to follow my advice but you may take it in consideration. Read only what there is and not what there is not, every single thing that we "read" what is not written is nothing more then our own speculation. That is not really harmful but if we take our own speculations as truths then we can never make any progress and I think we will miss the real beauty of what is written.Can you be bit clear .i mean can you elaborate your view point
Allah has made for every person his/her way to salvation. BUT all those ways have one thing in common, that is the way how to reach this salvation. While we all have different paths the common denominator is striving for betterment.
-
I am not well-read in the ahadith but I think there was a hadith about Omar (could be someone else) kissing the black stone, when people asked him why he did that as they thought it was shirk, he said that he would also have not done it if he did not saw the messenger also doing it. So clearly no shirk because who are we to judge one of the best sahaba.
Can you give the your form of hadith .i mean how many people asked umar rasiallahuanhu about his act of shirk
Everyone, they learned it from their parent and their parents from their parents but the source are the ahadith.
tell me honestly ,did ever cross checked ahadith for salah .the majority of Muslims don't even know about salah ahadith .you are just basing with ahadith just to prove your point .
We check ahadith only in disputes .that too by the people who got knowledge, not by everyone .I will give one common example which arises during taraweeh .
just answer this question ,Is it valid to pray isha salah behind the imam who is praying taraweeh .how many people do you think will seek the solution for this problem .note that there is no ather to support this .there are athers to support taraweeh .The ijma is we can pray isha salah behind the imam with the niyah of isha fard salah and then we should continue our four rakas once the imam finishes his taraweeh prayer .but we cannot make a individual isha fard salah while the imam is making taraweeh as it will be like forming a faction in masjid .
this example clearly proves that ahadith are not enough to know about salah we need more to solve our problems .here ijma is giving the solution .Islam is much more than ahadith .I was talking about theft not alcohol. The difference between alcohol and theft is that theft ALWAYS harms others while alcohol not always.
Things that harms others are always a forbidden by Allah.
So drinking while you have a responsible duty is forbidden by Allah, because this creates chaos, unjust, evil, etcI don't know which part of the world you are. as per my reasoning you are a Pakistani settled in Netherlands .just check out the evils of alcoholism in my sate tamilnadu this is the trailer .i am seeing the main picture daily in my area .it is a real nonsense .
Because you are "claiming" that your salaat is the correct one and that the word salaat in the quran means your way of prayer and not how I do it or how Christians do it or how atheists do it.
So if you are right then I like to know how Musa did his salaat, is it the same as yours?same question in a different way . i really don't know how musa alaisallam performed salah .i know one thing for sure , he would not jumped 100 times . . i am bothered about my way .can you tell me about the picture you get in your mind when you hear the word "salah",don't tell you get the picture of someone jumping 100 times .
that was not a compliment
You disappointed me .i was about to throw a party .i even ordered briyani for that . '(
Allah has made for every person his/her way to salvation. BUT all those ways have one thing in common, that is the way how to reach this salvation. While we all have different paths the common denominator is striving for betterment.
I agree with you .but what about the rituals .the religion and rituals are not separable .that is the meaning of
-
Yes i agree with you , Jafar
idolization and religion are not separable .I disagree..
Idolization is caused by fanaticism, arrogance and ignorance.
Idolization is a common theme to be found among religions BUT NOT ALL religion.
There are religion who do not idolize anyone or anything..Idolization is a common theme to be found on ALL form of fanaticism, including but not limited to Religionism, Nationalism, Facism, Nazism, Communism, Hooliganism (Football club)...
i idolize Quran and i want to stick to it .
Human tend to idolize something or someone, it has been as such since the dawn of history.
It's good that you realize that you idolize the Quran and wanted to stick with your idolatry...
But.. just remember that when you see someone else who are idolizing different idols.... that you, yourselves and not far too different.. it just happened that you idolize different idol.I have cited that this "Shirk is a bad thing" thing was started by the Israelites.. specifically Judeans..
Here I add more depth to the background..The concept then evolved into "Shirk is a crime" and punishable by death through stoning.. (as can be found in the Torah). They did that as a mean for their culture / tradition to survive (as a group identity) in the midst of dominance from their less fanatical to specific idol neighbors..
The Hittites, the Assyrians for example, are known to have adopted Deities from their neighboring cultures to their pantheon.. They did this to 'foster unity and good relationship' with their neighbors..
Their attitude were "We adopt your deities, you adopt ours, we worship them all together"...The Persians / Medes are not so fanatical about their idol / deity either..
There are historical record which shows Cyrus praising Marduk (The deity of Akkadian) and YHVH.. in addition to "Ahura Mazda". And he ordered great temples to be built to all of them.. tYHVH was also adopted by the Hittites/Assyrians to their pantheons (as either sky god or mountain god) and they "marry him" to their native deity named "Asherah"/"Ashertu" as such "Asherah the consort of YHVH". Symbolizing good relationship between themselves and the (Northern) Israelite kingdoms..
This event triggered the Southern Israelite kingdoms/tribes (Judah) to come up with "Shirk" concept (Abandoning YHVH commandment and adopting foreign Gods and Practices) and the details can be read in today's version of Tanakh... and henceforth "Judaism" was born.. Judaism.. the truest religion who worshipped the only one and true God...
Judaism, later on evolved to become Christianity and Islam...
Celebrating Christmas or worshipping Jesus is a "Shirk" (In Judaism and Islam), because it's an adaptation of foreign practices and other deity than YHVH / Allah... -
I can think of acts worse than kissing a stone in the name of religion.
I can think of acts that abhorrently violate man's inalienable rights and that are carried out in the name of religion. We only need to look at what's happening in the Middle East today.
I think that we, instead of working to invalidate the belief's of other communities, should be working collectively to validate the beliefs of ours.
-
I can think of acts worse than kissing a stone in the name of religion.
I can think of acts that abhorrently violate man's inalienable rights and that are carried out in the name of religion. We only need to look at what's happening in the Middle East today.
I think that we, instead of working to invalidate the belief's of other communities, should be working collectively to validate the beliefs of ours.
Of course, agreed.
However, the very same people (whatever creed) who engage in "innocent" religious activities... also tend to insist this is the way people must do it, or else they are pagans/kaafirs/infidels/doomed/lost souls etc.
So yes, live and let live is the way, but we need to be able reason about things we find unreasonable without people getting emotional all the time (which happens in 100% of the cases with religion).
Peace
-
I disagree..
Idolization is caused by fanaticism, arrogance and ignorance.
Idolization is a common theme to be found among religions BUT NOT ALL religion.
There are religion who do not idolize anyone or anything..Idolization is a common theme to be found on ALL form of fanaticism, including but not limited to Religionism, Nationalism, Facism, Nazism, Communism, Hooliganism (Football club)...
I don't agree with your view point of idolization is caused by fanaticism .I think the reverse is true .Fanaticism is caused by idolization .fanaticism is the threshold level of idolization .it can be found in any religion .idolization minus fanaticism is Quran/true Islam
Human tend to idolize something or someone, it has been as such since the dawn of history.
It's good that you realize that you idolize the Quran and wanted to stick with your idolatry...
But.. just remember that when you see someone else who are idolizing different idols.... that you, yourselves and not far too different.. it just happened that you idolize different idol.Quran teaches me that i should honor all type idolization .otherwise ,Quran will not instruct Jews to follow their books or else where it says we should believe in all the other books too.i think this is the basic reason that Quran did not give the procedure for any of the rituals of Muslims today .this is the proof that ALLAH subhnavtala belongs to all religions .Muslims always tend to criticize the idolization of other religions .even they cannot bear to hear the similarities in the rituals .even here on this thread you can find one such indecent .just go through the post made by mmkhan here ,it seems khan cannot digest the circling of kaaba for the simplest reason that Hindus circle their fire and tulasi tree as well as their temples .On the other hand i find it amazing about these similarities .because both the religions are divided by distances as well periods of their revelations .yet we have something in common. it gives me proof for the existence GOD .can anybody here guaranty about the intention of a Hindu .For a Muslim it is must to respect other religions and leave it to ALLAH subhnavatala .
-
I disagree..
Idolization is caused by fanaticism, arrogance and ignorance.Idolization is a common theme to be found on ALL form of fanaticism, including but not limited to Religionism, Nationalism, Facism, Nazism, Communism, Hooliganism (Football club)...
Ah, then we probably should be committing suicide? Even more than religions and political stuffs, we idolize our own lives. We know none of will survive, yet everyday we humans go to work so we can nourish the bodies. Oh, we even try our best to cure the terminal patients. Medical doctors are the most fanatic here then. So senseless that they try to heal the ones who they know won't even live that long like the cancer patients.
Human tend to idolize something or someone, it has been as such since the dawn of history.
It's good that you realize that you idolize the Quran and wanted to stick with your idolatry...
But.. just remember that when you see someone else who are idolizing different idols.... that you, yourselves and not far too different.. it just happened that you idolize different idol.I am not sure what Parvez believes now. But the reason why we have been talking about idolization in the sectarian Islam is because it is damaging. We aren't using Quran to kill and oppress humans. The Book tells us to use our heads to understand its verses. We can't blindly apply anything. Same isn't always true for sectarian Islam based on hadiths and extra opinions of the ulema.
Since hajj happens to be one of the pillars of sectarian Islam, people are expected to do it which many times has proved to be risky for their lives. Sometimes it has caused their dream unfulfilled, causing heartbreaks. For instance, just couple of years ago, Saudi limited the quota of hajj doers from a specific country.
Secondly, there is a weird notion that people who have "unmarried" daughters should not perform hajj and that many times left many families in unnecessary shame and worries because they were taunted about it by their friends.
Weird idolization of the Prophet is also problematic because it has hindered people from feeling the full potential of Allah's power and that comes directly from following the Quran and keeping him in the mind. The idolization is pretty much taking them from the way of Allah.
Idolization is a common theme to be found among religions BUT NOT ALL religion.
There are religion who do not idolize anyone or anything..Are you sure? D
-
................................
I am not sure what Parvez believes now.......................
I have the same belief ,Reel .no one can change my belief , Reel .i don't know what made you think that i have changed my belief .
Are you not idolizing Quran , Reel -
I don't agree with your view point of idolization is caused by fanaticism .I think the reverse is true .Fanaticism is caused by idolization .fanaticism is the threshold level of idolization .it can be found in any religion .idolization minus fanaticism is Quran/true Islam Quran teaches me that i should honor all type idolization .otherwise ,Quran will not instruct Jews to follow their books or else where it says we should believe in all the other books too.i think this is the basic reason that Quran did not give the procedure for any of the rituals of Muslims today .this is the proof that ALLAH subhnavtala belongs to all religions .
Fanaticism caused by Ego and self identification to something or someone.
The True religion is "MY Religion", the True Holy Book is "MY Holy Book", the Best Nation is "MY Nation", the best race / ethnicity is "MY Race/ Ethnicity", the Best Football Club is "MY Football Club".And to prove that MY <<something>> is the best, they attack the competing <<something>>
For example, to prove that Quran is the best, they attack the bible (Competing holy book), a common thing to be found among Quran idolators right? It's rare to find Quran idolators who attack Tao The Ching or Harry Potter...In similar manner as to prove that Manchester United is the best football club they attack Manchester City.
It's rare to find MU idolator who attacked River Plate or Kawashima Antlers, because those clubs are not in competition with their idolized club.All things belong to the true God of course, and not the other way around..
The Gospel also did not give any procedure of any rituals, is that the proof that Jesus belongs to all religions?
I see both statement as non related.. the logical statement should beThe book titled X did not give any procedure of any rituals, as thus we can conclude that
The author of the book X do not have any intention of discussing rituals.The next inquiry can be Why should anyone think that Rituals should be covered and discussed inside the book X?
Where X can be anything Gospel, Quran, Tao The Ching, Gita, Harry Potter.Muslims always tend to criticize the idolization of other religions .even they cannot bear to hear the similarities in the rituals .even here on this thread you can find one such indecent .just go through the post made by mmkhan here ,it seems khan cannot digest the circling of kaaba for the simplest reason that Hindus circle their fire and tulasi tree as well as their temples .On the other hand i find it amazing about these similarities .because both the religions are divided by distances as well periods of their revelations .yet we have something in common.
True about "Muslims always tend to criticize the idolization of other religions"... and so does Judaist and Christians...
That's why I state that those 3 group of people have "similar mindset and characteristic"..The similarity of "Tradition / Habit" proves a communication or relationship which happened between different group of people..
Pick anything, circumcision, circling black stone, holy book worship etc.. -
Can you give the your form of hadith .i mean how many people asked umar rasiallahuanhu about his act of shirk tell me honestly
I have no clue what you mean or what you are asking.
You can search this in google "Omar hadith black stone" and I am sure you will get the ahadiths about it with all the information you are searching for.,did ever cross checked ahadith for salah .
yes I did, actually a lot.
the majority of Muslims don't even know about salah ahadith.
So? The majority of muslims know very little about the ahadith in general.
you are just basing with ahadith just to prove your point .
Bashing? when, where, how, what time?
My point is is that your whole ritual prayer is not from the quran but is derived from the ahadith just like the kissing of the black stone. And if you still insist that your ritual prayer is from the quran then give me the verse numbers.We check ahadith only in disputes .that too by the people who got knowledge, not by everyone .
Knowledge in what? Every person under normal circumstances can read when he/she is a grown up. There is not more knowledge required than being able to read.
I will give one common example which arises during taraweeh .
just answer this question ,Is it valid to pray isha salah behind the imam who is praying taraweeh .Is it valid to pray with the pope during Easter?
how many people do you think will seek the solution for this problem .
I do not know about your family and acquaintances but one of the most beloved subjects in my circles are these kind of non-problems.
note that there is no ather to support this .there are athers to support taraweeh .The ijma is we can pray isha salah behind the imam with the niyah of isha fard salah and then we should continue our four rakas once the imam finishes his taraweeh prayer .but we cannot make a individual isha fard salah while the imam is making taraweeh as it will be like forming a faction in masjid .
this example clearly proves that ahadith are not enough to know about salah we need more to solve our problems .here ijma is giving the solution .Islam is much more than ahadith .Yes I know, and when the "quran" or the ahadith or the qiyas or the ijma or the imam commands or recommends something we just have to follow it even if it makes totally no sense or sometimes even when it is evil.
I don't know which part of the world you are. as per my reasoning you are a Pakistani settled in Netherlands.
What is it lately with all this Pakistani thing?
And are you serious? Do you really mean that you can derive from my reasoning from which country I am or should be?
If my reasoning hints like I am from Pakistan then I am very proud to be a Pakistani living in the netherlands.just check out the evils of alcoholism in my sate tamilnadu this is the trailer .i am seeing the main picture daily in my area .it is a real nonsense .
What is real nonsense?
This "drinking while you have a responsible duty is forbidden by Allah"?
If you think this is nonsense then you clearly did not understood what I wrote, "responsible duty" does not only mean driving a car but every responsible thing.same question in a different way . i really don't know how musa alaisallam performed salah .i know one thing for sure , he would not jumped 100 times . .
RED So can we at least agree that the word "sallaat" in the quran does NOT mean the ritual prayer of Parvez And IF it means a ritual prayer then all those who doing it different from you are NOT challenging Allah?
GREEN How do you know? It is really not much different from all the other ritual prayers all over the world, including yours.i am bothered about my way .
And you are also bothered about how others do it. You even had a sort of accusation that I might even be challenging Allah with the way I do it.
can you tell me about the picture you get in your mind when you hear the word "salah",don't tell you get the picture of someone jumping 100 times .
Depends on who is using it. If it is you who is using this word then I know that you are talking about the ritual prayer as it is done today in mecca.
You disappointed me .i was about to throw a party .i even ordered briyani for that . '(
If this is briyani...
http//www.biryanihouseuganda.com/_assets/images/Slider-object.png
... then it is a sin not to let you have a party with some briyani.
I will compliment you now Parvez you are the best person I know from Tamil Nadu and I am not joking.you are also the only person I know from Tamil Nadu
I agree with you .but what about the rituals .the religion and rituals are not separable .that is the meaning of
I do not understand what you are trying to say.
-
I have no clue what you mean or what you are asking.
You can search this in google "Omar hadith black stone" and I am sure you will get the ahadiths about it with all the information you are searching for.So you have became bachha (child) ,masoom, you dont know anything
Anyway , this is the hadith
NarratedAbis bin Rabia`Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said "No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen Allah's Messenger (ﷺ kissing you I would not have kissed you."
Reference Sahih al-Bukhari 1597
In-book reference Book 25, Hadith 83
USC-MSA web (English) reference Vol. 2, Book 26, Hadith 667
(deprecated numbering scheme)
Narrated Salim that his father saidI saw Allah's Messenger (ﷺ arriving at Mecca; he kissed the Black Stone Corner first while doing Tawaf and did ramal in the first three rounds of the seven rounds (of Tawaf).
Reference Sahih al-Bukhari 1603
In-book reference Book 25, Hadith 89
USC-MSA web (English) reference Vol. 2, Book 26, Hadith 673
(deprecated numbering scheme)These are the ahadith .
The first hadith claims that Umar rasiallahuanu had seen our prophet kissed the black stone
the second hadith claims that the son of Umar rasiallahunu had seen our prophet had kissed the stone
Which one is true ...i will say both are wrong .it is a clear cut example for time lapsed adulterationMy point is is that your whole ritual prayer is not from the quran but is derived from the ahadith just like the kissing of the black stone. And if you still insist that your ritual prayer is from the quran then give me the verse numbers.
Now you are comparing salah with the above ahadith .can you show me any verse regarding black stone in Quran .you will find lot of verses regarding salah .
Depends on who is using it. If it is you who is using this word then I know that you are talking about the ritual prayer as it is done today in mecca.
Forget about me , tell me about your picture
you are also the only person I know from Tamil Nadu
ok, i will introduce your counterparts in TN
watch these people on youtube https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvb6Sx3dPQII do not understand what you are trying to say.
verse 5.48
Sahih Intl
And We have revealed to you, , the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation , but to test you in what He has given you; so race to good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.what is the method ...that is
-
You think there is validity in hadith's?
-
So you have became bachha (child) ,masoom, you dont know anything
Anyway , this is the hadith
NarratedAbis bin Rabia`Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said "No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen Allah's Messenger (ﷺ kissing you I would not have kissed you."
Reference Sahih al-Bukhari 1597
In-book reference Book 25, Hadith 83
USC-MSA web (English) reference Vol. 2, Book 26, Hadith 667
(deprecated numbering scheme)
Narrated Salim that his father saidI saw Allah's Messenger (ﷺ arriving at Mecca; he kissed the Black Stone Corner first while doing Tawaf and did ramal in the first three rounds of the seven rounds (of Tawaf).
Reference Sahih al-Bukhari 1603
In-book reference Book 25, Hadith 89
USC-MSA web (English) reference Vol. 2, Book 26, Hadith 673
(deprecated numbering scheme)These are the ahadith .
The first hadith claims that Umar rasiallahuanu had seen our prophet kissed the black stone
the second hadith claims that the son of Umar rasiallahunu had seen our prophet had kissed the stone
Which one is true ...i will say both are wrong .it is a clear cut example for time lapsed adulterationRED Why can't they both be true? I do not see why this can not be possible.
Now you are comparing salah with the above ahadith .can you show me any verse regarding black stone in Quran .you will find lot of verses regarding salah .
GREEN I can not. But you can also not show me verses in the quran about 7 rounds of tawaaf. not eating during tawaaf, accelerated speed of first 3 rounds of tawaaf, 2 rakaats at makaam Ibrahim, drinking water of Zamzam, throwing stones at the devil, etc etc etc
RED Yes aqimu sallaat is VERY important. But I do not see any verse regarding the ritual.Forget about me , tell me about your picture
I told you that it depends on the source
ok, i will introduce your counterparts in TN
watch these people on youtube https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvb6Sx3dPQIverse 5.48thank you but I have no idea what they are saying.
Sahih Intl
And We have revealed to you, , the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation , but to test you in what He has given you; so race to good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.what is the method ...that is
What ever it really means is not important as it is no command but a fact, the BLUE parts are important.
-
THIS GUY IS TELLING PEOPLE TO KISS THE BLACK STONE. CLICK THIS YOUTUBE LINK FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AND SKIP TO 1100
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VtPOVusbtg
I'M HORRIFIED. NO WONDER THE SO CALLED MUSLIM WORLD TODAY IS BEING SHUNNED BY GOD. AFTER THIS VIDEO I DON'T KNOW HOW I CAN CALL MYSELF MUSLIM, A WORD THAT'S BEING SHARED WITH THESE IDOL WORSHIPPERS. CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT THESE PEOPLE WERE LIKE BEFORE GOD BROUGHT DOWN THE QURAN?? THEY MUST HAVE BEEN THE BIGGEST IDOL WORSHIPPERS IN HUMAN HISTORY!! I'M SO ANGRY RIGHT NOW?..
AND THIS HAPPENS IN THE CITY MECCA.
May our Lord forgive us and guide us.
The stone should be broken, and monotheism should be followed instead of that polytheism.
-
It is idolatry though, you believe that the ritual of worshiping the building will somehow bless you. Holy buildings or structures are quite common in Pagan religions too in which particularly people have to do things to appease the deity. Doing these things will bless people in return even if the chores would appear meaningless to any rational being.
Personally I find idolatry to be a very silly point though as if it would matter, but yet it would appear primitive to walk around a building several times. There are many points in classical religions I wonder about actually. One is that there appears to be no real purpose of the god creating the world except to be worshiped and let these worshipers dwell in some kind of meaningless paradise, or let the failers of the hidden agenda burn forever in some kind of fiery place called Hell as of that would have any kind of purpose in the long run. Torturing those in a kind of Hell forever just shows the primitive nature of that god as it has emotions (instinct) of revenge. Quite primitive god that does things which have no purpose. In that case the wiser god would simply just destroy those failing souls.
Simply logical questions.
Be well
AmenuelThey belief that if you make the pelgrimage you will go to paradise, and that you are cleansed and that it is like you are born again.
-
Wa alaikum Salaam brother,
Kaaba is nothing but another stone I don't think Allah ask us to do such things and He feels proud or something.
When I did my I got a chance to rest my face on the wall of Kaaba and as soon as I did so I felt that I am doing sajda in front of a stone idol in a hindu temple. MaazAllah! That was so horrible. May Allah forgive me for that.After I came back Allah showed me that hajj has nothing to do with this rituals. Hajj means debate. You can study the topic of Ibrahim where you can see the derivatives of the word hajj is used many times including the story of king.
Brother have you ever wonder why 7 times circling around the building same as hindus circle around fire 7 times during marriage and circle around tulsi tree 7 times early in the morning?
Why there is still a moon and a sun made of gold inside the building kaaba? Why there are so many pots hanging inside the kaaba, the same pots that hindu saints still use today?
That 7 times circling around it cannot be verified from alQuraan.
If you study this matter, inshaAllah you will find more and more proofs that this is not hajj.
9107 and 9108 clarifies that we are not allowed to stand in such masjids. Everyone believes that there were 360 idols inside the kaaba and it was removed at the time of victory. But still we are not allowed to stand in such masjids but we are only allowed to stand on those masjids whose foundation was on taqwa from day one.
May Allah protect us from all types of shirk and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanHow did you turn the meaning of the arabic word "Hadj" into the word debate? Afcourse there can be pondered upon a word. But to change it's entire root?
-
In my view, Hajj is a word stemming from Ha-Waw-Jiim (you may look it up) and it means to do something for others while forsaking your own interests, e.g. voluntary work, or it could be wandering around spreading the light of God/Rabb. It means neither pilgrimage nor debate. You would need to validate the choice of debate to have any practical use to be any sensible translation by logic. No indications are there, although for voluntary charity work there is, for example in certain passages it speaks of whatever good you bring in conjunction to the practice of Hajj.
To walk around spreading the light of God/Rabb is already an established practice and is something that Jesus is seen doing in the Biblical Gospels. This is basically about spreading spiritual enlightenment and can be speaking in a House of God or elsewhere and the crowd can be just about anyone. This practice could also be simply being present in the world as the "good guy" and by this spread light around you and wise contributions of thoughts and moral standard.
While doing this you may obviously get into a debate, but I would say this is not the meaning of the word Hajj itself. Debates can be futile when no logical or rational input is circulating in the discussion. People are often very close-minded and do not think beyond their dogma and, so to say, stuck in their own little world against logic.
Be well
Amenuel -
How did you turn the meaning of the arabic word "Hadj" into the word debate? Afcourse there can be pondered upon a word. But to change it's entire root?
Peace,
Hajj is the Arabic word came from the root Ha-Jeem-Jeem.
You can look at some of its derivatives used in 2258, 320, 361,.... it goes on.
Or click here to see all of its derivatives.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan