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  4. IDOL WORSHIPPING IS THE NEW ISLAM

IDOL WORSHIPPING IS THE NEW ISLAM

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  • B Offline
    B Offline
    Bender
    wrote on last edited by
    #21

    Assalamualaikum Bro
    I may agree with you regarding kissing of black stone( Alahamddulliah , i completed my hajj last year without kissing the black stone ) but how circling around kaba will ever become idol worship .can you elaborate your explanation ,bro

    Hi Parvez,

    So what do you think parvez, those people who are doing this kissing are they challenging Allah or are you challenging Allah?

    Rituals are just rituals, I strongly believe that we are not going to be questioned about our rituals by Allah as long as they are not harming.

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    • L Offline
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      Loulou
      wrote on last edited by
      #22

      i've mentioned holy books / theories, which cited Quran, Gospel, Bible among the example.. that also include any other book which one considered as flawless / holy, Harry Potter anyone?
      Or idea.. Flat Earth, 7 layer of heaven, judgement day, heaven and hell.

      I add more

      • Holy Nationality (Swedish, American, Syrian, Egyptian, Palestine etc..)
      • Holy Ethnicities (Arabs, Jewish, White, Black, Spanish / Latin)
      • Holy Football Club (Spurs, City, MU, Liverpool)

      And i'm truly truly expecting this to come in as future form of idol..

      • Holy Software.. A computer software written by God.
      • Holy eBook.. Finally god "sent down" something in pdf format..

      The common attitude of "idolators" was best described by this fellow..

      If the people of this religion are asked about the proof for the soundness of their religion, they flare up, get angry and spill the blood of whoever confronts them with this question. They forbid rational speculation, and strive to kill their adversaries. This is why truth became thoroughly silenced and concealed.
      Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi

      Yes it is a form of idolatry.. to consider an item made by human hand as flawless and godly...
      The attitude of people on this forum can be an evidence for that..

      See? Don't trust Quran or any other holy book.. trust God..

      God speaks to you all directly through your conscience.. listened to it very carefully..
      When you see something from any sources (including "holy book&quot which is not inline with your own conscience..
      Always side with your own conscience.. don't ignore it..

      Jafar, you wrote "Yes it is a form of idolatry.. to consider an item made by human hand as flawless and godly...
      The attitude of people on this forum can be an evidence for that.."

      But, it's not idolatry if I consider and believe the Quran is by God and only God. And, I am NOT worshiping the Quran like an OBJECT. The Quran is God's ~GUIDANCE~ for mankind. Without the Quran or Torah, how would you know to worship ONE GOD and not multiple Gods? How would you know that the Moon isn't GOD for example? How would you even know that Idolatry is unacceptable and very bad?

      I believe the Quran is from God so it's not idolatry to me to seek guidance from it. The Quran is understandably idolatry to you because you believe human beings wrote it. I can't help you there if that's you truly believe. To each his own. It's called faith for a reason. Either you believe the Quran is from God or you don't. There are several verses in the Quran where God is challenging those like you who don't believe that the Quran is from God

      Say If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all and their strength in aiding one another. (Quran 178

      Or do they say that he has invented it? Say (to them), Bring ten invented chapters like it, and call (for help) on whomever you can besides God, if you are truthful. (Quran 1113)

      And if you all are in doubt about what I have revealed to My servant, bring a single chapter like it, and call your witnesses besides God if you are truthful. (Quran 223)

      May Peace Be Upon You,

      Lana -)

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        Loulou
        wrote on last edited by
        #23

        Peace Loulou.

        The majority of humans are pursuing "Idolworship". GOD Alone is the last thing on our minds.
        Most humans, have been setting a precedent of misjudging, underestimating and mishandling God's words sent to them.
        The majority rejects logic and guidance, and the majority of those who choose faith fail to handle the word of God with truthfulness and integrity.
        Mishandling the word of God, temporarily or permanently, is a failure to uphold God's absolute authority. Thus, it is a form of idol worship.
        So "Idolworship "is in multiples of things we do, it is not just in "Kissing a stone".
        We should all reflect. Are we putting GOD Alone as priority?
        It was a consequence of their violating the covenant that we condemned them, and we caused their hearts to become hardened. Consequently, they took the words out of context, and disregarded some of the commandments given to them. You will continue to witness betrayal from them, excepting a few of them. You shall pardon them, and disregard them. God loves those who are benevolent
        May the Lord forgive and guide those who will repent and reflect on what they are doing.
        Each individual is only responsible for their own neck. Each one of us needs to correct and work on ourselves . We need to ask the Lord to "cleanse " us from idolworship and pray for those who are misled

        You shall all follow what is revealed to you from your Lord; do not follow any idols besides Him. Rarely do you take heed.

        Follow what is revealed to you from your Lord, there is no god except He, and disregard the idol worshipers

        Do not be angry, do not despair. Trust in your Lord to help and save the true believers from idolworship.
        GOD bless you.
        Peace.

        Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply, I really appreciate it!! -)

        God Bless You,

        -Lana

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          mmkhan
          wrote on last edited by
          #24

          Jafar, you wrote "Yes it is a form of idolatry.. to consider an item made by human hand as flawless and godly...
          The attitude of people on this forum can be an evidence for that.."

          But, it's not idolatry if I consider and believe the Quran is by God and only God. And, I am NOT worshiping the Quran like an OBJECT. The Quran is God's ~GUIDANCE~ for mankind. Without the Quran or Torah, how would you know to worship ONE GOD and not multiple Gods? How would you know that the Moon isn't GOD for example? How would you even know that Idolatry is unacceptable and very bad?

          I believe the Quran is from God so it's not idolatry to me to seek guidance from it. The Quran is understandably idolatry to you because you believe human beings wrote it. I can't help you there if that's you truly believe. To each his own. It's called faith for a reason. Either you believe the Quran is from God or you don't. There are several verses in the Quran where God is challenging those like you who don't believe that the Quran is from God

          ?Say ?If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all and their strength in aiding one another.?? (Quran 178

          ?Or do they say that he has invented it? Say (to them), ?Bring ten invented chapters like it, and call (for help) on whomever you can besides God, if you are truthful.? (Quran 1113)

          ?And if you all are in doubt about what I have revealed to My servant, bring a single chapter like it, and call your witnesses besides God if you are truthful.? (Quran 223)

          May Peace Be Upon You,

          Lana -)

          Peace Lana,

          Jafar is right and you missed his point.

          Yes it is a form of idolatry.. to consider an item made by human hand as flawless and godly...
          The attitude of people on this forum can be an evidence for that..

          You got this but you didn't follow the next line which is..

          See? Don't trust Quran or any other holy book.. trust God..

          This part needs to understand. If you trust anyone or lets say alQuraan for guidance, it cannot guide you without Allah. But if you trust Allah for guidance it is easy for you to guide without alQuraan. As He guided Ibrahim when he said moon is my Rabb.

          Without Allah nothing and with Allah everything is there what you want.
          That's all )

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            parvez_mushtaq
            wrote on last edited by
            #25

            Wa alaikum Salaam brother,

            Kaaba is nothing but another stone I don't think Allah ask us to do such things and He feels proud or something.
            When I did my I got a chance to rest my face on the wall of Kaaba and as soon as I did so I felt that I am doing sajda in front of a stone idol in a hindu temple. MaazAllah! That was so horrible. May Allah forgive me for that.

            What about the verse about the hajj and tawaf in the Quran .You may be correct about touching of Kaba ,even i felt that .i was doint that initially till this indecent happened

            After I came back Allah showed me that hajj has nothing to do with this rituals. Hajj means debate. You can study the topic of Ibrahim where you can see the derivatives of the word hajj is used many times including the story of king.

            the meanings that are derived here for the most important words are not correct .for example ,the word SJD was not properly explained by Wakas .so i believe ,your claim about hajj being "debate" may also have the same fate as SJD in the hands of Wakas
            anyway as per the root

            = Haa-Jiim-Jiim = to intend to a certain target, aim at, repair, undertake, repaired/betook himself to or towards a person / place / object of veneration/respect/honour, went/visit frequently/repeatedly, pilgrimage.
            Overcome another by/in argument/evidences/proofs/testimonies, plead, contend/argue/dispute.
            Refrain/abstain.

            hajja vb. (1)
            perf. act. 2158
            n.vb. 2189, 2196, 2196, 2196, 2197, 2197, 2197, 397, 93, 2227
            pcple. act. 919

            hijaj n.f. (pl. of hijjah) 2827

            hujjah n.f. 2150, 4165, 683, 6149, 4215, 4216, 4525

            hajja vb. (3)
            perf. act. 2258, 320, 361, 366, 680
            impf. act. 276, 2139, 365, 366, 373, 680, 4216

            tahajja vb. (6) impf. act. 4047
            Lane's Lexicon, Volume 2, page 149, 150, 151 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=7jj

            these are the meanings even i have cheked with Mazhar Bhai's roots

            Brother have you ever wonder why 7 times circling around the building same as hindus circle around fire 7 times during marriage and circle around tulsi tree 7 times early in the morning?

            Why there is still a moon and a sun made of gold inside the building kaaba? Why there are so many pots hanging inside the kaaba, the same pots that hindu saints still use today?

            That 7 times circling around it cannot be verified from alQuraan.

            If you study this matter, inshaAllah you will find more and more proofs that this is not hajj.

            these things are not surprising to me , khan
            i think you might not heard about irumudi of Hindu's which is equivalent of ihram .you might be aware of the stories of babies by the river in other scriptures too.since we have the same GOD in all religions and the author of all scriptures was the same author of Quran these resemblances are bound to happen .only difference is, islam being the most modern and the latest religion all the rituals are original where as the rituals of other religion were adulterated
            moreover ,for every nation ALLAH subhanavatal says he had given a http//quranx.com/Content/Images/ArabicWords/6d616e73616b616e.png

            = Nun-Siin-Kaf = to lead a devout life, be pious, be godly, worship/serve God, sacrifice, slaughter an animal by way of sacrifice, act of worship/servitude, performers/observers of such acts, rite of devotion, to wash and purify, to apply oneself.

            nasaka vb. (I)
            n. vb. 2196, 6162
            pcple. act. 2267,

            mansak n.m. (pl. manasik) 2128, 2200, 2234, 2267.

            Lane's Lexicon, Volume 8, pages 286 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=nsk

            so these resemblances will make my faith strong in Islam

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            • P Offline
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              parvez_mushtaq
              wrote on last edited by
              #26

              Hi Parvez,

              So what do you think parvez, those people who are doing this kissing are they challenging Allah or are you challenging Allah?

              of course without any doubt they are challenging ALLAH subhanvatal

              Rituals are just rituals, I strongly believe that we are not going to be questioned about our rituals by Allah as long as they are not harming.

              Do you have proof for your claim or it is your wild speculation .

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              • B Offline
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                Bender
                wrote on last edited by
                #27

                i've mentioned holy books / theories, which cited Quran, Gospel, Bible among the example.. that also include any other book which one considered as flawless / holy, Harry Potter anyone?
                Or idea.. Flat Earth, 7 layer of heaven, judgement day, heaven and hell.

                I add more

                • Holy Nationality (Swedish, American, Syrian, Egyptian, Palestine etc..)
                • Holy Ethnicities (Arabs, Jewish, White, Black, Spanish / Latin)
                • Holy Football Club (Spurs, City, MU, Liverpool)

                And i'm truly truly expecting this to come in as future form of idol..

                • Holy Software.. A computer software written by God.
                • Holy eBook.. Finally god "sent down" something in pdf format..

                What I wanted to say is that it is not fair to point only to the Abrahamic religions, we all have our holy things.

                RED These are indeed in the top 5 (my top 5) of the most evil holy things.

                God speaks to you all directly through your conscience.. listened to it very carefully..
                When you see something from any sources (including "holy book&quot which is not inline with your own conscience..
                Always side with your own conscience.. don't ignore it..

                These are very wise words handshake

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                • B Offline
                  B Offline
                  Bender
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #28

                  of course without any doubt they are challenging ALLAH subhanvatal

                  No they are not, they think that Allah ordered them to do that, like millions before them and with them.
                  Just like how you believe that your spinning around the cube and your ritual prayer is a command of Allah and I think you are not challenging Allah with that.

                  Do you have proof for your claim or it is your wild speculation .

                  I said I strongly believe, these means that I do not need to prove it

                  But yes I have solid evidence that I am right.

                  Bender evidence

                  • If I were to judge people on their rituals (with MY rituals as criterion) than you all (whole world) are misguided.

                  Quranic evidence
                  548

                  2015

                  2281

                  330

                  I think this is enough for the moment.

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                  • L Offline
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                    Loulou
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #29

                    Loulou,

                    What I was saying was asking you whether it is sane to read something that goes against basic logic.

                    And you are wrong about multiple things in your post. The word islam does not mean submission and furthermore submitting your intelligence to something unsound would be very unwise, would it not?

                    As long as you speak of brains and the physical then sure you will never be prosperous.

                    I agree that the sectarian interpretation of Quran is simple because it comes from simpletons too.

                    Anyway, I suppose that you are not receptive nor interested in expanding your horizons so I will let you dwell in your little realm. I would however advise you to open your mind to what it is you put your faith in and also reflect on what I wrote. But if this is the god you prefer so go with it.

                    Be well
                    Amenuel

                    Islam does in fact mean submission, more accurately SURRENDER. Some people like myself are willing to surrender themselves 100% to God and his guidance, the Quran. It is from the Quran I learned of the existence of God. It is from the Quran I learned of worshipping only one God and not multiple. It is from the Quran, I learned about how this world was created and the purpose behind it. The Quran is God's true guidance for all of mankind and to God and his guidance, I surrender fully. I welcome judgment day with an open heart. God knows best how to deal with mankind since he created them.

                    Peace Be Upon You,

                    -Loulou

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                    • L Offline
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                      Loulou
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #30

                      Peace Lana,

                      Jafar is right and you missed his point.

                      You got this but you didn't follow the next line which is..

                      This part needs to understand. If you trust anyone or lets say alQuraan for guidance, it cannot guide you without Allah. But if you trust Allah for guidance it is easy for you to guide without alQuraan. As He guided Ibrahim when he said moon is my Rabb.

                      Without Allah nothing and with Allah everything is there what you want.
                      That's all

                      Jafar is not right. In your belief, Jafar is right. However, I believe Jafar is wrong. I believe the Quran is a true message from God, so how can I separate God from his own message? Your suggestion will not work for me.

                      Peace,

                      -Loulou

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                        Comrox
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #31

                        Jafar is not right. In your belief, Jafar is right. However, I believe Jafar is wrong. I believe the Quran is a true message from God, so how can I separate God from his own message? Your suggestion will not work for me.

                        Peace,

                        -Loulou

                        Peace Loulou,

                        Of course you can separate God from His (physical) message. By opening yourself up to Him, you can receive your own message and your own guidance. You don't need a specific book to do this. Qur'an is good and I like to read it myself, but it's not the end-all of faith. "islam" existed before the Qur'an's physical compilation as it is today. Remember that.

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                          mmkhan
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #32

                          What about the verse about the hajj and tawaf in the Quran .You may be correct about touching of Kaba ,even i felt that .i was doint that initially till this indecent happened the meanings that are derived here for the most important words are not correct .for example ,the word SJD was not properly explained by Wakas .so i believe ,your claim about hajj being "debate" may also have the same fate as SJD in the hands of Wakas

                          Peace brother,

                          That is OK if you find it difficult to accept what I said. But I suggest you to hold Allah firmly and be sincere to Him and to yourself, then follow whatever He guides you to, inshaAllah.

                          Because what I believe and understand from Allah is actually for my own self and not for others. Just sharing to see if it matches )

                          anyway as per the root
                          these are the meanings even i have cheked with Mazhar Bhai's roots

                          You quote says
                          Overcome another by/in argument/evidences/proofs/testimonies, plead, contend/argue/dispute.

                          Finally disagreeing with anyone or everyone does not matter. But not following what Allah is guides us to matters a lot.
                          You can check my article on SJD if you are interested.

                          May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
                          mmKhan

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                            mmkhan
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #33

                            Jafar is not right. In your belief, Jafar is right. However, I believe Jafar is wrong. I believe the Quran is a true message from God, so how can I separate God from his own message? Your suggestion will not work for me.

                            Peace,

                            -Loulou

                            Peace,

                            It's OK Loulou

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                            • M Offline
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                              mmkhan
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #34

                              Peace Loulou,

                              Of course you can separate God from His (physical) message. By opening yourself up to Him, you can receive your own message and your own guidance. You don't need a specific book to do this. Qur'an is good and I like to read it myself, but it's not the end-all of faith. "islam" existed before the Qur'an's physical compilation as it is today. Remember that.

                              Peace Comrox,

                              I agree handshake

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                                HP_TECH
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #35

                                Those in the video are simply disbelievers...
                                Every sectarian that follows tradition, ahadith, imam, sheiks or anyone (other than Allah alone) blindly is a disbeliever in the Quranic definition of disbeliever.

                                I would lean towards calling them hypocrites but many probably never embraced true Islam to begin with and see it as an inherited culture rather than Conscious State.

                                Also people (like many in this forum) that pretend to follow Quran alone and then hide behind western ideals and try to infuse neo-progressive ideals that support homosexuality, transgenderism, that deny supernatural and many apparent Signs of Allah on this earth etc... are also hypocrites.

                                But, everyone who does not follow what was revealed to Muhammad and submit their face to God Alone being sincere to Him in the Deen and denies the Book, the Signs, The Absoluteness and Oneness and Dominion of Allah is a polytheist/pagan

                                These are atheists, christians, jews, buddhists, hindus, you name it..
                                There is absolute logical evidence for my assertions so do not oppose me

                                O Loulou, are you equally disgusted by all the above idolaters or is it only Arab polytheists that tick you off enough to start a post?

                                "How horrible these people must have been before Quran"
                                What about the pagans of today?! Christians that worship the virgin Mary and Jesus and claim the atrocity about Allah? What about Masonic organizations that actually commit heinous global crimes in the name of their satanic idols? What about Jews that deny two Messengers (Isa and Muhammad) and claimed the lie about killing Isa son of Mary? What about Hindus that bow down to statues and worship them with more veneration than kissing a black stone? etc...

                                If you were to sum up the Western civilization system of beliefs there would be a 99% polytheist result
                                Mostly some denomination of Christians
                                Others Judaic
                                Others Cabalistic/Masonic
                                atheist
                                agnostic
                                acual devil worshippers

                                Do they not enrage you as much or do they have to be Arabs or Middle-easterns?

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                                  hawk99
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #36

                                  Peace Loulou, HP_TECH, do not be distressed by the disbelievers they only expose
                                  themselves to you, nothing more. Actually I myself find them boring because they offer
                                  nothing useful to the discussion except disbelief.

                                  47/30 And if We willed, We could show them to you, and you would know them by
                                  their mark; but you will surely know them by the tone of speech (posting). And Allah
                                  knows your deeds.

                                  There has always been and will always be those who are astray.
                                  Therefore ignore those who say negative things or minimize
                                  Quran and the prophet. They have nothing to add to your growth
                                  except that they only confirm what Allah says in his book about them.

                                  peace

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                                  • H Offline
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                                    HP_TECH
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #37

                                    Peace Loulou, HP_TECH, do not be distressed by the disbelievers they only expose
                                    themselves to you, nothing more. Actually I myself find them boring because they offer
                                    nothing useful to the discussion except disbelief.

                                    47/30 And if We willed, We could show them to you, and you would know them by
                                    their mark; but you will surely know them by the tone of speech (posting). And Allah
                                    knows your deeds.

                                    There has always been and will always be those who are astray.
                                    Therefore ignore those who say negative things or minimize
                                    Quran and the prophet. They have nothing to add to your growth
                                    except that they only confirm what Allah says in his book about them.

                                    peace

                                    Peace hawk99,

                                    I am not distressed I am making an example of Loulou's possible Arab-pagan hatred/phobia which is very akin to Islamophobia and arab phobic bigotry that is going on in the world today and that many other users on this forum are also guilty of.
                                    There is this fear and despise for the Arabs that in light of all the other atrocities committed by other ethnic, religious, cultural groups in the world in the past and TODAY just seems ridiculous and VERY selective.
                                    I just want to make sure she and all the rest know that they are approaching the limit of bigotry if they are not as equally enraged by all the other pagans and disbelievers including the leading pagan Western(mainly caucasian driven)culture.
                                    That's all brother.

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                                      hawk99
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #38

                                      Peace hawk99,

                                      I am not distressed I am making an example of Loulou's possible Arab-pagan hatred/phobia which is very akin to Islamophobia and arab phobic bigotry that is going on in the world today and that many other users on this forum are also guilty of.
                                      There is this fear and despise for the Arabs that in light of all the other atrocities committed by other ethnic, religious, cultural groups in the world in the past and TODAY just seems ridiculous and VERY selective.
                                      I just want to make sure she and all the rest know that they are approaching the limit of bigotry if they are not as equally enraged by all the other pagans and disbelievers including the leading pagan Western(mainly caucasian driven)culture.
                                      That's all brother.

                                      I agree with you wholeheartedly

                                      peace

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                                        Man_of_Faith
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #39

                                        HP_TECH,

                                        pagan

                                        A Pagan is someone who cannot think beyond this world. It is incorrectly associated with polytheism although it is likely that a Pagan would be polytheist because of their limited thinking. Another word for Pagan but in Arabic is al-Jinn which is Semitic native. A Pagan can be a polytheist or a very worldly portraying monotheist, i.e. Allah is degraded to a primitive level by perception and belief Allah will act in primitive ways. Summary is that a Pagan is anyone who gives in to their bodily to a certain extent and not a measure of polytheist or monotheist.

                                        Muslims usually call other religions polytheism while they themselves would call it pantheistic, i.e. they live within the divine realm but absorbed in it, and if you ask them they would still call their foundation monotheistic because all they affirm fundamentally is this Oneness, e.g. in Hinduism by Brahman. For this reason Muslims have acted zealously and dogmatically towards people with another way of thinking. Actually my pantheistic view is on bottom level Monotheistic, but you cannot seem to understand it. We have no own identity but comprise Allah although the spiritual (soul) growth determines to what extent. It is a vastly more advanced union with Allah than what you care to think.

                                        You call everyone who is not a Muslim a Pagan while Muslims are among the worst Pagans in the world, because indulgence in the worldly is approved to a huge extent and the reward of passing the test is a Pagan's wet dream, i.e. your Jannah, which is a silly misconception on your part because the word is based on the root of Jinn and actually refers to your body. The word is a construct making it into an object whereas al-jinn would refer to the bodily as an adjective or perhaps the "clothly". Check an ancient Arabic lexicon and you shall see that the root Jiim-Nun-(Nun) refers to the covering (skin) of something and is nothing I have conjectured. Rather it is your "scholarly" friends of the past who have conjectured and making jinn into what it is not.

                                        What about Hindus that bow down to statues and worship them with more veneration than kissing a black stone? etc...

                                        You do not call prostration to a cubic building in the desert for Paganism? You literally revere this little building out in the nowhere. You are all Pagans, including them too obviously which I say nothing else about. And do not come with the excuse of a beacon or focal point because you do attribute the divine to an object in this world. It would be not any different than the ancient Pagans who have idols in their homes but you merely replaced them with a huge idol instead. Is the power of your deity in that building perchance?

                                        I could ask Hindus the same as you, what kind of power do your objects have?

                                        You wrote that some people are hypocrites but you may ask yourself how much hypocrisy it is to blame others for Paganism when you from wherever you are in the world should revere some structure in the desert. You just gathered the idols into one huge idol called Allah while the phenomenon usually called God in English is Rabb in Arabic, and this Rabb you are a part of or you do not exist at all, a predictable primate.

                                        Even the term "believer" is dimwitted because which superior Being would care about belief. The superior Being would care about realization, about growing conscious. This is what this development ground is about, i.e. to grow as a soul within Allah. The rest are dead even if they appear to be alive, they just live to indulge and live their primitive lives and play along as if this illusion is the design of the real realm. Some of you are longing for some kind of paradise but you already have your "paradise" right here for which you are fooled that you have any part in, and with your wars including religious forced indoctrination you utterly make the world into a better place, or? Actually most just fight to improve their own worldly life, their close family and for their fabricated ideals of their idol which is just an image of their of being. Some would even murder their own family for the fabricated ideals of their idol. Now is that not deluded you think?

                                        The Arabic word for belief which is appears quite scarcely in Quran but is primarily used in a negative connotation, i.e. it is not good to be a believer. It is confused with another word called amin which means to trust, have faith in or even the model you rely on. This is your realized reality, amin marks absolute certainty and there is no room for doubt. It is a linguistic form of the word which gives attribute from a reference. "Be Thereof Integrity" with Allah ( &#1607. If you actually read an ancient Classical Arabic lexicon and studied the word amin you would open a new world of understanding but you seem to buy what others say about the word for a cheap price.

                                        Many people in the past have skipped translating amen just because of the difficulty in doing so, but you could translate it as one's faith in something although it means their accepted acknowledgement, their whole world image in how they behold it.

                                        Your despised Christians actually have a decent understanding of amen for they take the prayer ending of amen as "may it be so". Make it so, i.e. realize/make it real it in that manner.

                                        Amen implies absolute understanding about something if it is a matter of abstract knowledge.

                                        Your other word you use to say disbeliever is also incorrect and the faith has nothing to do with belief or disbelief (just not realizing yourself) and the antonym of Mumineen is Kafar but it is obviously the right opposite of realized which is covered. The definition of covered in lexicons is absolutely correct, but it is meant metaphorically as in that your ability to realize is covered, i.e. you are deluded. And a kafar we are supposed to help, I try to help kafars every day and I do not curse them like you seem to do although I may gently throw the truth in their faces like I have done to you now. I have not been mean to you (emotional instinctive response) but I clarified that by how you use words you would go under that label too if you only knew the meaning of words. Islam is just a clerical invention and the logic also stays on that level and you cannot convince people who truly adhere to logic either which means deluded atheists will remain atheists and remain in their limited world just like you probably will if you remain the same.

                                        Faith needs to bring answers to science, not go against science especially empirical science that can be proven through repeated testing and observed by people. If faith is not confirmed by empirical science then the staunch believer in that faith must reconsider what they believe in and not in their stupidity defend it against all logic.

                                        One stupidity is that Islam says angels are made of fire while science proves nothing can be made of fire, even if it is "smokeless". Depending on the substance burning, the fire may be lacking visible smoke. Fire, the flame, itself is just an observable phenomenon. Actually the fire is a visible effect of an object that is disintegrating quickly due to excess heat. And the flame is heat and released particles of that material.

                                        Jinn are made of the innate energy (noor) of this world, even heat, mysterious matter that seems to generate heat itself (your body's ability to generate heat is a sign of that). And Jinn are not any different than our very bodies that we possess in this world. The "mysterious matter" then forms all the physical objects, i.e. the molecules with their atoms. Those are just manifestations of this noor, i.e. the bodily is a manifestation (animation) of it. This energy cannot be destroyed, only transformed into something else. Our "soul seed" (nafs) is attached to this body but not native to it even if we are intentionally supposed to feel we have an identity with it, which is the imposed delusion on us in a world of contradiction (illusion). Here the one with faith knows they are to be above the bodily, in an image of their Creator.

                                        And Nas is man's spirituality, their real soul and person detached from their false realization of who they are, which would be that of a jinn. Body and soul is a common way of speaking in English although it is more complicated than that if one searches for more intricate information.

                                        Nafs and nas are linguistically quite close to each other but Nafs is likened by a growing seed that represents your soul at any given moment. If nas is your soul then Nafs is your person. Nas is the completed character to unfold while Nafs is the progression towards realization of this. It is a choice between nas and jinn, not harder than that, or? Apparently it is hard, most choose the bodily being fooled by the illusion imposed on them. The ability to beguile of Satan is stronger than what many people are aware of, they might think they are on the right path while they are not, misled by others.

                                        And the imitating behavior of humans is one of those traits of Satan which leads to no good, just look at the sect of Islam for the past 1400 years based on how somebody interpreted something (Quran) expecting it to confirm what they already believed in and so certain about it that they caused it to be interpreted as according to themselves not really bothered about what they did to it. And even more astonishing is that people actually buy the interpretation even if a more deep-down study of it would identify all the linguistic inconsistencies. The Arabic people know is a very crude form of the real one with illogical claims concerning the language. The clerics of the past did their best to make it seem plausible by adding non-native diacritical markers which they added to words in order to give them a different meaning depending on their markers so they literally forced the language to conform to them. This is a cheap way of deception because you can decide and have more control over a text.

                                        If they only could see how pathetic the traditional interpretation of Quran is...

                                        "No one has interpreted Quran (as of 2015). Islam is not my religion".

                                        Be well
                                        Amenuel

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                                          Nestor
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                                          Thumbs up again Bender!

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