UNLAWFUL SEX?
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Zulf,
Everything related to religion is not bad. The sense of connection between man and husband is leading to better order in my opinion. Our start of disbelief towards the sacredness of the marriage is societally detrimental and the children are those hurt the most when parents divorce/separate.
I do however take that you are married by God when you spend time with a partner and particularly have sexual intercourse with them. No ceremony required. One should not take lightly on a separation even if they are not married.
Be well
AmenuelPeace,
do you believe that a vow before god is required for marriage? i believe it is a personal commitment to god, for each individual, i dont believe in ceremony etc, but i am of the opinion that this verse;
421 And how can you take it when you have become intimate with each other, and they have taken from you a solemn covenant.
talks of a solemn/serious pledge/commitment
im also curious as to your, and anyone elses views on theese verses
423 Forbidden for you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and the sisters of your father, and the sisters of your mother, and the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, and your foster mothers who suckled you, and your sisters from suckling, and the mothers of your women, and your step-daughters who are in your lodgings from your women with whom you have already consummated the marriage; if you have not consummated the marriage then there is no sin upon you; and those who were in wedlock with your sons who are from your seed, and that you join between two sisters except what has already been done. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
424 And the independent from the women, except those maintained by your oaths; the book of God over you; and permitted for you is what is beyond this, if you are seeking with your money to be independent, not for illicit sex. As for those whom you have already had joy with, then you shall give them their dowries as an obligation. There is no sin upon you for what you agree on after the obligation. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
425 And whoever of you cannot afford to marry the independent female believers, then from those maintained by your oaths of the believing young women. And God is more aware of your faith, some of you to each other. You shall marry them with the permission of their parents, and give them their dowries in kindness - to be independent - not for illicit sex or taking lovers. Until they become independent, any of them who comes with an immorality shall have half of what is the punishment for those who are independent. This is for those who fear hardship from among you. But if you are patient it is better for you, and God is Forgiver, Merciful.i am curious what you think of theese, as they talk about obligations such as dowries, and permission from parents.. and if (and obviously you provided only a little information on your view, so i am unsure) this is the case, as you say, is multiple partners permissible, like where are the boundaries, in your view?
Also the Quran seems to clearly talk about boundries for divorce, or remarriage after the death of a husband..also 2433-34, if there is no definite marriage as such and we can have sex without a vow, etc, then why would god be saying some might not have the means to marry, and chould remain chaste/pure untill they do
also 55 where it mentions not taking secret lovers, and also again the dowrie.
This is more of an open question, not nessessarily directed to you, and i would like to hear anyones view on it.. i know very little about marriage in Gods system, and i would certainly like to learn.
Peace
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Timotheus,
It is true that in order to be intimate, have sexual interaction, then the couple should have decided to keep together. The intercourse will establish the marriage bond whether you utter anything or not. After that it is too late. If you utter anything this is to confirm to each other that you will stick together forever after.
This is a reason why in elder Semitic lore, a man is forced to marry a woman he has laid with. In some cases the father of the daughter has become furious. No matter if someone says anything or not they couple is bound.
Be well
Amenuel -
the decision of marriage should be taken after much thinking and observing.. its the matter of life infact ... emotions are so strong it makes u what you you, it will make you becoming what you want to be or dnt want to be...
human being is sensitive creation. I dnt know how many in you have breakup with their ex but its a painful thing and it will make u suffer after along time , suddenly ideas of past memories comes in the mind and it will disturb you a lot..
I advise to all of you please get married very wisely becoz we make a promise infront of God not to do bad with oneanother and most of the cases we forget our very first promise and then God is in between this matter he will surely let you taste what u dnt know..
peace
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Timotheus,
It is true that in order to be intimate, have sexual interaction, then the couple should have decided to keep together. The intercourse will establish the marriage bond whether you utter anything or not. After that it is too late. If you utter anything this is to confirm to each other that you will stick together forever after.
This is a reason why in elder Semitic lore, a man is forced to marry a woman he has laid with. In some cases the father of the daughter has become furious. No matter if someone says anything or not they couple is bound.
Be well
AmenuelPeace, the idea of 'together forever' is a fairytale..
i am seriously concerned by some of your views, but for you are your deeds and for me are mine.
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It is pretty common in thinking that the marriage bond is permanent.
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divorce really disturb the mechanism of peacefulness , specially when u have kids
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It is because the mechanism of peacefulnes is disturbed that hre i divorce, not the ther way around.
It is no favour to the children to live in the middle of hotility or ill treatment.
The Qur'an no only dmits divorce but says that God will provide for both
4.130. But if they separate , Allah will enrich each from His abundance. And ever is Allah Encompassing and Wise.
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Timotheus,
Allows is not the same as saying it is any good. Marriage is a permanent union so one cannot "jump around" among partners as desired, and breaking the union is obviously not an optimal scenario. It would require misconditions to be acceptable by God such as abuse towards a woman in the relationship. A marriage is nothing to be taken lightly and if you think so I suppose you might consider what you yourself find rational. Divorce is failure in all cases, but it might be a necessary evil in the case where abuse has occurred and the positive impact of divorce outweighs the negative.
Be well
Amenuel -
Divorce is the proper way of ending a matrimonial relationship. God does not formulate a single objection to that. All He does is inruct that it must be done in all fairness and loyalty and He provides for it wihout pointing to guilt.
It is surprising how some people tend to disparage against divorce as if it was a sin or a whim or something shameful while in the Qur'an there are instructions to solve problems within marriages but there is not comment negative for divorce at all, and as we have seen God has no rebukes for the divorcees but, quite the opposite, promises his provision for both of them. He does not seem to be as much offended by divorce as some societies which seem to be very upset by divorce but can put up with far more revolting things.
May be God knows that the people who go through it are far mor in need of encouragement than of criticism.Salaam
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I know what you mean, huruf. It is also seldom an easy thing to go through a divorce if one feels this is a necessity.
Be well
Amenuel -
Peace
comrox
Where do you derive your understanding that when a partner becomes a disbeliever, a divorce must take place?
your words tell me that you are not even Muslim, Peace woman, I do not seek the ignorant, and God dislikes idle talk.Timotheus
you said this "God says in Quran that those who already call themselves muslim will be more willing to listen" where is this in the quran?
3053And you cannot guide the blind away from their error. You will only make hear those who believe in Our verses so they are Muslims(submitted ones). However, you have to understand that there are some that have submitted(muslims) to God in obedience through the Torah from the Jews(very few, they are cursed), and from the Nazarenes(which many interpret as christian). Check, my post True christians and jews according to Quran.maybe i am misunderstanding, but does this statement not answer its self? they are divorcing because there are not interacting with the opposite sex.. i.e not talking to each other.
in the west we interact with the opposite sex since we are born, and for many sex is like eating, from around the age of 13. So, if they have the highest divorce rate is not for lack of interaction between sexes. But because their relationships begins always begin acting/lying to each other, and when they get tire of acting, they show their real self, and they divorce. How can they have a good communication if everything is lies. They are people that live by their desires, and their desires constantly change, thus, marriage is not for them.Peace.
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More verses
423 Forbidden to you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and your aunts paternal and maternal, and a brother's daughters, and a sister's daughters; and your milk-mothers, and your milk-sisters; and the mothers of your wives; and your step-daughters - who are your foster children - born of your wives with whom you have consummated your marriage; but if you have not consummated your marriage, you will incur no sin ; and the spouses of the sons who have sprung from your loins; and to have two sisters at one and the same time - but what is past is past for, behold, God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.
424 And all married women other than those whom you rightfully possess this is God's ordinance, binding upon you. But lawful to you are all beyond these, for you to seek out, offering them of your possessions, taking them in honest wedlock, and not in fornication. And unto those with whom you desire to enjoy marriage, you shall give the dowers due to them; but you will incur no sin if, after this lawful due, you freely agree with one another upon anything behold, God is indeed all-knowing, wise.The phrase in 424, ? except what owns your right hands/ oats /covenants ,? does not seem to mean that it is lawful to have sex slaves. Those perverted interpretations always create many contradictions in the books. Even the Torah says that if a man is attracted to his slave he can take her as his wife, or marry her to his son, and, beyond the corruption, it does not seem to allow sex slaves. The phrase in 424 seems to mean wives to whom a man is legally married, and he is not retaining by force, from those 423 and 424 describe as forbidden. This, being applicable only when the law was revealed, or when a man becomes Muslim and his wife is one of those cases, because ?but what is past is past for, behold, God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.?
May God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom
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Peace
To recognize the beauty on women is one thing, but not being able to control sexual desires and machinations when looking at women seems to be the beginning stages of a rapist. And, once the disease of such person worsens, not even children will be safe around him.
The book says that God turns those who do not believe into apes and pigs, and there are many here that resemble the Bonobo ape, whose life revolves around sex.Many snakes are given the ability to climb, and they can be found near the nesting birds of heaven, yet that is not their natural habitat, and they are there only to eat the newly hatching birds.
I guess the conjecturers have forgotten about my warnings, and they are back wasting my post with their idle/ vain talk. nothing of essence, but only their excrement.
5110 Accursed be the conjecturers
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No one becomes an ape when they already are (in) one. The question is if you keep it under control or not.