Who build "Masjdid Al Aqsa"? And who build "Masjid Al Haraam"?

Bender

masjid e aqsa is not what we have in jerusalem,, becoz that mosque was biuilt after the death of prophet infact that name is also taken from quran..

but what i guess the aqsa word means the location which is so far.. the far mosque, may b that mosque is in medina or jerusalem or somwhere else .. God knows best..

RED This makes no sense. What is far? And from which position is it far?

Adam_The_Warner

masjid e aqsa is not what we have in jerusalem,, becoz that mosque was biuilt after the death of prophet infact that name is also taken from quran..

but what i guess the aqsa word means the location which is so far.. the far mosque, may b that mosque is in medina or jerusalem or somwhere else .. God knows best..

If it was not build by Mohammed? Then who is this verse speaking to?

Or how could Mohammed be able to visit the Farthest Temple if it wasnt build yet?

PS And i definitly learned about the Tabernacle that was build by Moses in the Torah. Maybe its smarter to read the Quran and use that Light when reading the Torah/Psalms/Gospel etc. Because the Quran was revealed for a reason? Its not a new religion? We can learn from the Gospel that Jesus, Son of Mary, Messiah did follow the Torah while receiving the Gospel. In the end its one religion.

Timotheus

If it was not build by Mohammed? Then who is this verse speaking to?

Or how could Mohammed be able to visit the Farthest Temple if it wasnt build yet?

PS And i definitly learned about the Tabernacle that was build by Moses in the Torah. Maybe its smarter to read the Quran and use that Light when reading the Torah/Psalms/Gospel etc. Because the Quran was revealed for a reason? Its not a new religion? We can learn from the Gospel that Jesus, Son of Mary, Messiah did follow the Torah while receiving the Gospel. In the end its one religion.

Peace,

I cant remember exactly the name, but this is a common problem, and a logical fallacy in which you see point B and relate it to point A, when point A is not nesseccarily refering to the point B which came afterwards.. or something along those lines, if you get what i mean..

muhammad was taken to al-masjid al-aqsa. what/whereever that is. after the fact, and after the time of muhammad, seemingly to back up their hadiths which say al-masjid al-haram is in mecca, and al-masjid al-aqsa is in jerusalem, which is too far to travel in one night, they built a mosque in jerusalem called al-masjid al-aqsa, and claimed that muhammad travelled on a noble and mystical steed in the dead of the night from mecca to jerusalem.

Also in my understanding the temple was built by solomon, that the tabernacle build by moses was more of a portable, travelling tent type building to house the ark of the covenant. they are two different things. although both, can i guess be a 'masjid'

i think you raised a valid point, in that we should use the light of the quran as a confirmation, and a criterion (standard by which to judge a thing) against Gods previous scriptures, as the interpretation is often, as is similar with the quran, distorted by those who follow other sources of law besides Gods scriptures.. of course the Qurans interpretation itself being possibly distorted, this leads us to a situation where we realy must be carefull to verify everything for ourselves, and geek Gods clarity and guidance on the matter.

Peace

Adam_The_Warner

Peace,

I cant remember exactly the name, but this is a common problem, and a logical fallacy in which you see point B and relate it to point A, when point A is not nesseccarily refering to the point B which came afterwards.. or something along those lines, if you get what i mean..

muhammad was taken to al-masjid al-aqsa. what/whereever that is. after the fact, and after the time of muhammad, seemingly to back up their hadiths which say al-masjid al-haram is in mecca, and al-masjid al-aqsa is in jerusalem, which is too far to travel in one night, they built a mosque in jerusalem called al-masjid al-aqsa, and claimed that muhammad travelled on a noble and mystical steed in the dead of the night from mecca to jerusalem.

Also in my understanding the temple was built by solomon, that the tabernacle build by moses was more of a portable, travelling tent type building to house the ark of the covenant. they are two different things. although both, can i guess be a 'masjid'

i think you raised a valid point, in that we should use the light of the quran as a confirmation, and a criterion (standard by which to judge a thing) against Gods previous scriptures, as the interpretation is often, as is similar with the quran, distorted by those who follow other sources of law besides Gods scriptures.. of course the Qurans interpretation itself being possibly distorted, this leads us to a situation where we realy must be carefull to verify everything for ourselves, and geek Gods clarity and guidance on the matter.

Peace

I dont accept any words of men as a guide besides the word of God. So therefore i dont accept that story about the mystical beast. And thats why i am really curious about the truth in this matter brother.

Yes, God alone we shall need to serve, and He alone we shall need to seek for help. So at the moment i am trying to read the Older Testaments to come to the conclusion.

Oh, by the way, hmmm, how should i say it? 90%? 95%? of the so called Muslims today probably didnt read the Old Testament. Sadly. And thats why you get such weird doctrines. Because if you reject the Old Testaments, then how are you going to understand the terms that are being used in the Quran. So thats why its important to read All the Available Scriptures. How are you going to understand the alphabet by just reading and learning the last 1/4 of the alphabet and rejecting and not reading the first 3/4 of the alphabet?

May our Lord guide us.

Timotheus

I dont accept any words of men as a guide besides the word of God. So therefore i dont accept that story about the mystical beast. And thats why i am really curious about the truth in this matter brother.

Yes, God alone we shall need to serve, and He alone we shall need to seek for help. So at the moment i am trying to read the Older Testaments to come to the conclusion.

Oh, by the way, hmmm, how should i say it? 90%? 95%? of the so called Muslims today probably didnt read the Old Testament. Sadly. And thats why you get such weird doctrines. Because if you reject the Old Testaments, then how are you going to understand the terms that are being used in the Quran. So thats why its important to read All the Available Scriptures. How are you going to understand the alphabet by just reading and learning the last 1/4 of the alphabet and rejecting and not reading the first 3/4 of the alphabet?

May our Lord guide us.

Peace, valid point, Gods scriptures are a continuation, sadly most of the people who claim to follow the quran believe in abbrogation, the quran abbrogates the previous scriptures, and hadiths abbrogate the quran, hence they just follow the hadiths instead..

also the point i was trying to make, is that most of theese translations, are the interpretation of biblical scholars etc, many of whom believe in other sources of law besides the revelations of god, hence be aware of this when reading them, and do your best to verify, research for yourelf what the torah etc actualy says, and seek godsguidance for its true interpretation.

hebrew is such a basic language, it can be interpreted in such a variety of readings, because, just like the quran, it was revealed without vowel markings, hence much of the meaning is derived from the context of the words. and may or may not be accurate, now that they have added vowel markings, which limit the interpretation. i dont know exactly, but i advise patience, and seeking gods guidance.

edit i should say, it was written down without vowel markings, i would think god revealed it as a quran (recital) so the readings were known originaly, but possibly lost over time

peace

Adam_The_Warner

Peace, valid point, Gods scriptures are a continuation, sadly most of the people who claim to follow the quran believe in abbrogation, the quran abbrogates the previous scriptures, and hadiths abbrogate the quran, hence they just follow the hadiths instead..

also the point i was trying to make, is that most of theese translations, are the interpretation of biblical scholars etc, many of whom believe in other sources of law besides the revelations of god, hence be aware of this when reading them, and do your best to verify, research for yourelf what the torah etc actualy says, and seek godsguidance for its true interpretation.

hebrew is such a basic language, it can be interpreted in such a variety of readings, because, just like the quran, it was revealed without vowel markings, hence much of the meaning is derived from the context of the words. and may or may not be accurate, now that they have added vowel markings, which limit the interpretation. i dont know exactly, but i advise patience, and seeking gods guidance.

edit i should say, it was written down without vowel markings, i would think god revealed it as a quran (recital) so the readings were known originaly, but possibly lost over time

peace

I don't know what that word means that is translated as abrogated in arabic.

All we can do is deliver the message. I sometimes find myself arguing to much. Then i think, why didn't i just give them a copy of the Scriptures instead!

I don't know brother. May my Lord grant me Hes Word.

Let's not forget that it's the Word of God, He will Guard it.

Timotheus

I don't know what that word means that is translated as abrogated in arabic.

All we can do is deliver the message. I sometimes find myself arguing to much. Then i think, why didn't i just give them a copy of the Scriptures instead!

I don't know brother. May my Lord grant me Hes Word.

Let's not forget that it's the Word of God, He will Guard it.

abrogated, means like 'over-ruled' or canceled out by something else. i.e they believe the hadith cancel out and over-rule the quran. which cancels out and overrules the gospel, etc etc.

I agree, God informs us to argue with them in a way that is best, he also informs us that the best argument comes from God. he certainly makes it easy for us, we just have to remember, and not get too carried away. god willing he will forgive our mistakes and guide us to do better in time.

imrankhawaja

RED This makes no sense. What is far? And from which position is it far?

far mean, at some distance , and at what distance i have no idea.. its the study of archealogy and history..

and if we consider these verses are for prophet and this is linked to night journey then lot of more theories will arise..

you share something if u have something regarding this in ur mind ?

peace

imrankhawaja

If it was not build by Mohammed? Then who is this verse speaking to?

Or how could Mohammed be able to visit the Farthest Temple if it wasnt build yet?

PS And i definitly learned about the Tabernacle that was build by Moses in the Torah. Maybe its smarter to read the Quran and use that Light when reading the Torah/Psalms/Gospel etc. Because the Quran was revealed for a reason? Its not a new religion? We can learn from the Gospel that Jesus, Son of Mary, Messiah did follow the Torah while receiving the Gospel. In the end its one religion.

brother , this verse is talking to prophet that , God took him from one place to another in night ,

the mosque we usually know as aqsa is built after some time of prophet death according to the history, so that is not the mosque what we think it is,

on the other hand aqsa mean a place that is at some distance so if we link these verses to meaningful way according to wordy meanings then may b this place we cannot figure it out,, it can be anywhere only prophet and God is fully aware about it...

peace..

imrankhawaja

Oh, by the way, hmmm, how should i say it? 90%? 95%? of the so called Muslims today probably didnt read the Old Testament. Sadly. And thats why you get such weird doctrines. Because if you reject the Old Testaments, then how are you going to understand the terms that are being used in the Quran. So thats why its important to read All the Available Scriptures. How are you going to understand the alphabet by just reading and learning the last 1/4 of the alphabet and rejecting and not reading the first 3/4 of the alphabet?

quran is a book called final testament. so logically its quran from which everything need to filter , old testamant , new testament or any religious law, its complete and confirm previous scriptures, and this book differentiate between falsehood and truth.. so judge with quran..

we cannot say we need to read any other book apart from quran to understand the quran, quran itself is a complete book in its subject..

muslims dnt read old or new testament but indirectly the study of islamic secondary sources what we call hadith is full of stories combination of old and new testament , but most of them are very weak in reasonings..

so my adviise do read every thing old testament , new testament, history , science, math, archelogy , poetry but filter through final teestament , that what we logically do when we need to update the software to make our device run smoothly, quran is updated and timeless software for beleivers, i think

peace

Timotheus

quran is a book called final testament. so logically its quran from which everything need to filter , old testamant , new testament or any religious law, its complete and confirm previous scriptures, and this book differentiate between falsehood and truth.. so judge with quran..

we cannot say we need to read any other book apart from quran to understand the quran, quran itself is a complete book in its subject..

muslims dnt read old or new testament but indirectly the study of islamic secondary sources what we call hadith is full of stories combination of old and new testament , but most of them are very weak in reasonings..

so my adviise do read every thing old testament , new testament, history , science, math, archelogy , poetry but filter through final teestament , that what we logically do when we need to update the software to make our device run smoothly, quran is updated and timeless software for beleivers, i think

peace

Peace,

In my understanding it is not called the final testament. that is a translation of the Quran by Dr. Rashad Khalifa called 'Quran The Final Testament'

I do agree with the point you made though, that we should filter thhrough the quran, as it is al-furqaan (the criterion)

Also in regards to your post

"
muslims dnt read old or new testament but indirectly the study of islamic secondary sources what we call hadith is full of stories combination of old and new testament , but most of them are very weak in reasonings..
"

There is no such this as Islamic secondary sources!! The only source of law is Gods revelations

what about muslim jews? or muslim christians?
what about me?
i read the previous scriptures.

peace

imrankhawaja

Peace,

In my understanding it is not called the final testament. that is a translation of the Quran by Dr. Rashad Khalifa called 'Quran The Final Testament'

I do agree with the point you made though, that we should filter thhrough the quran, as it is al-furqaan (the criterion)

Also in regards to your post

"
muslims dnt read old or new testament but indirectly the study of islamic secondary sources what we call hadith is full of stories combination of old and new testament , but most of them are very weak in reasonings..
"

There is no such this as Islamic secondary sources!! The only source of law is Gods revelations

what about muslim jews? or muslim christians?
what about me?
i read the previous scriptures.

peace

updated testament, whats about it, lol

i m just kidding all testaments and their names are given and chosen by humans, but quran itself claims lot of things which qualify this scripture as a filter and universal message..

and i also read all scriptures , science books, philospphy books , history books, its dosent matter,,as long it is logical and infornmative but as soon i realise something fishy going on i start my verification and with the grace of God the lies exposed very quickly ,

honestly in the case of quran i was also thinking at first place its same like other people believe about their scripture, but even after my full strugle i did not find anything yet which is illogical oor contradictory so thats why i rely only on quran as a personal choice,,

peace...

Layth

Salam,

When I examine what we have as facts/clues, it paints an interesting picture

Abraham is directed towards the location of the shrine by God - 2226
The call to pilgrimage is made so that people may attend to the "ancient shrine" 2229- The shrine at Bakka is called the "first" shrine (implying there is a 2nd?) - 396
The shrine at Bakka has inside it the station/place of Abraham - 397
The shrine at Bakka can be entered - 397
Abraham raises the foundations from an already existing structure - 2127
Abraham settles part of his progeny at a site near the "restricted shrine" in a barren valley - 1437
Lot is from Abraham's progeny - 686
Lot and Abraham live in two different cities - 2932
Lot's town is destroyed, but a part of it was left intact - 2935
Mohammed lived in the town of Lot - 37137-138
Mohammed lived near the Kaaba "restricted shrine" - 597
Mohammed journey from the "restricted temple" to the "farthest temple" - 171
The "farthest temple" is an area described as "blessed", same description given to the first shrine in Bakka - 396

I would therefore say we have

Ancient Shrine/Shrine
Restricted Shrine/Shrine

The first is for the pilgrimage, and the 2nd serves as a nearer point for the tribes to give their offerings.

Both Shrines have formed a Temple around them.

Al-Aqsa/Farthest Temple
Restricted Temple

good_logic

Peace Layth.
Does the following journey imply a physical journey made in a night? ,quote

Mohammed journey from the "restricted temple" to the "farthest temple" - 171

The questions that arise are

1- The journey from A to B , where is A and where is B?
2- How was the journey made? What was the mean of transport?
3- How long did the journey take? Was it possible?

Also the "farthest Masjid" could be anywhere ( Only mentioned once) ,may be even not on earth? Why or why not?

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Layth

Peace,

1- The journey from A to B , where is A and where is B?

A Masjid Haram = Mekka, location of the restricted temple (4824-25)
B Masjid Aqsa = Bakka/Jerusalem (land blessed around 171, 396)

2- How was the journey made? What was the mean of transport?

By the power of God (hence the reference "subhan/glory" to God).

3- How long did the journey take? Was it possible?

Same night (171). As for possible, I think it is a forgone conclusion that anything God wants to do is "possible" (raising the dead, etc..).

Also the "farthest Masjid" could be anywhere ( Only mentioned once) ,may be even not on earth? Why or why not?

You could be correct, though I would highlight the description "blessed/mubarak" which is used in a number of other references of a physical place here on Earth (Bakka, the place where Solomon would send the winds, etc.).

Adam_The_Warner

Salam,

When I examine what we have as facts/clues, it paints an interesting picture

Abraham is directed towards the location of the shrine by God - 2226
The call to pilgrimage is made so that people may attend to the "ancient shrine" 2229- The shrine at Bakka is called the "first" shrine (implying there is a 2nd?) - 396
The shrine at Bakka has inside it the station/place of Abraham - 397
The shrine at Bakka can be entered - 397
Abraham raises the foundations from an already existing structure - 2127
Abraham settles part of his progeny at a site near the "restricted shrine" in a barren valley - 1437
Lot is from Abraham's progeny - 686
Lot and Abraham live in two different cities - 2932
Lot's town is destroyed, but a part of it was left intact - 2935
Mohammed lived in the town of Lot - 37137-138
Mohammed lived near the Kaaba "restricted shrine" - 597
Mohammed journey from the "restricted temple" to the "farthest temple" - 171
The "farthest temple" is an area described as "blessed", same description given to the first shrine in Bakka - 396

I would therefore say we have

Ancient Shrine/Shrine
Restricted Shrine/Shrine

The first is for the pilgrimage, and the 2nd serves as a nearer point for the tribes to give their offerings.

Both Shrines have formed a Temple around them.

Al-Aqsa/Farthest Temple
Restricted Temple

Didn't Lot life in Sodom? After it was destroyed, i am curious where he went to )!

Layth

Our story with Lot ends after the town he lived in is destroyed, so no, I don't know where he ended up.

Anoushirvan

Peace all,

Could it be possible that the word Aqsa was actually corrupted few years after the death of Mohamed, and the original word was in fact Afdha (root Fa-Dad-Waw), same base letters but with different dotting ? See http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=fDw
This word means something in expansion, or made known by communication with someone else.

Without dottings, both words look the same in scripting.

Al-Masjid Al-Afdha the most vast or known time or space of the careful listening and obedience.

Also please note that awlahu in verse 17.1 may be very well refer to God's servant, not to al-masjid (either al-aqsa or al-afdha). In Qur'an, word hawl is mostly used for talking about the surroundings of someone, not the surroundings of a place.

good_logic

Peace Layth.
Thank you for explaining your view.

I believe that it was not a physical journey.
While The physical body of the prophet was asleep, the real person(soul) made the journey by GOD s leave. That makes more sense to me and explains the possible scenario of the travel undertaken by the prophet.

The death of Jesus was similar , the body underwent the persecution/crucifixion, while the real person (the soul of Jesus) was taken up by GOD

Thank you and GOD bless you.
Peace.

imrankhawaja

what if fartherest mosque is not even on earth... ?

if it links to night journey the more questions arrise.

if it is a spirtual expereince like the case of jesus how can you feel and see what you feel and see with body, becoz clearly he experience and see some signs of God. including eternal paradise, lot tree etc..? eyes did not trick niether your friend is crazy...

i think mosque aqsa links to something a far place , how far God knows best.. may be up above the heavens possibly.. and its also possible for God to take prophet or anybody wherever he want to , why thinking about the laws of science and catagorised this journey as spirtual, whereas its clearly possible for God to do whatever God wills,,

peace