Have we given this script too much credit-made an idol of it
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Salam,
Just a remainder from the previous discussions on the meaning of the word shahr
As explained by brother Ayman in Hot/"ramadan" Answer the equivalence between arbaAAati ashhurin/four shahr traditionally translated by four "month" (2226) and three menstruation periods (222 is clear.
If four shahr means four periods, then we should read four menstruation periods in 228.
Three menstruation periods correponds exactly to four shahrshahr1------------shahr2------------shahr3-----------shahr4
----------period 1--------period 2-----------period 3It is logic and without ambiguity
Shahr ramadan in which the Reading was sent down ...(2185) and particularlly during the night of alqadr.
Shahr ramadan = the night of alqadr; a blessed night (443)
It is not a coincidence when the God compares the night of alqadr with one thousand shahr (973).
Thousand shahr are nothing but one thousand night.-
The Night of Destiny is better than one thousand sahr.
Laylatu alqadri khayrun min alfi shahrin -
O you who believe, let not a people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoola yaskhar qawmun min qawmin AAasa an yakoonoo khayran minhum wala nisaon min nisa-in AAasaan yakunna khayran minhunna wala talmizoo anfusakum walatanabazoo bial-alqabi bi/sa al-ismualfusooqu baAAda al-eemani waman lam yatub faola-ikahumu alththalimoona
The Reading explains itself
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Peace sister Marie,
Thank you for your valuable insight.
Just a remainder from the previous discussions on the meaning of the word shahr
As explained by brother Ayman in Hot/"ramadan" Answer the equivalence between arbaAAati ashhurin/four shahr traditionally translated by four "month" (2226) and three menstruation periods (222 is clear.
If four shahr means four periods, then we should read four menstruation periods in 228.
Three menstruation periods correponds exactly to four shahrshahr1------------shahr2------------shahr3-----------shahr4
----------period 1--------period 2-----------period 3It is logic and without ambiguity )
I agree that it is logic and without ambiguity. However, it is in the way of counting not in the equivalence. 2226 prescribes a waiting period before divorce. 2228 prescribes a waiting period after the divorce. So they don't overlap and correspond to each other as the diagram shows. However, 2226 coveys to us logically and without ambiguity that the way we count "shahr" is like the way we count "mensturation". They are both cyclical events (not a continuous time period).
Shahr ramadan in which the Reading was sent down ...(2185) and particularlly during the night of alqadr.
Shahr ramadan = the night of alqadr; a blessed night (443)
It is not a coincidence when the God compares the night of alqadr with one thousand shahr (973).
Thousand shahr are nothing but one thousand night.-
The Night of Destiny is better than one thousand sahr.
Laylatu alqadri khayrun min alfi shahrin -
O you who believe, let not a people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoola yaskhar qawmun min qawmin AAasa an yakoonoo khayran minhum wala nisaon min nisa-in AAasaan yakunna khayran minhunna wala talmizoo anfusakum walatanabazoo bial-alqabi bi/sa al-ismualfusooqu baAAda al-eemani waman lam yatub faola-ikahumu alththalimoona
The Reading explains itself )
This is brilliant sister. Thank you for sharing this additional evidence and logical explanation. I look forward for us to witness the scorching full-moon/night of measure, which is only a few weeks away from now. )
Paix and all best wishes,
Ayman
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Peace brother Ayman
2226 prescribes a waiting period before divorce. 2228 prescribes a waiting period after the divorce.
You are right.
Is it a coincidence that we are command to wait four full moon and three menstruation periods before and after the divorce respectively?Ideed two full moons don't overlap one menstruation period, in my last postI spoke about the equivalence only because during three menstruation periods, one can observe four full moon.
I look forward for us to witness the scorching full-moon/night of measure, which is only a few weeks away from now. )
I'm waiting too to observe it Inchallah )
PS
This is a confidence Since my childhood until 3 years ago I always speak about the shahr when the moon is full in the sky. When I discover the genuine islam, I changed my mind ? about this after a discussion with a freind of mine.
Now, praise to the God, my first understanding seems logic )Paix
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Peace all,
Another detail which can bring some idea
After witnessing the full moon, it withdraws itself progressively from the the sun light and the moon becomes like an old curved sheath (3639), in other word the moon is in darkness.
In the same way for the daylight regarding the night..-
So when the restricted full moons are withdrawn, then you may kill those who have set up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and hold the contact-method, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
Fa-itha insalakha al-ashhuru alhurumufaoqtuloo almushrikeena haythu wajadtumoohum wakhuthoohumwaohsuroohum waoqAAudoo lahum kulla marsadinfa-in taboo waaqamoo alssalatawaatawoo alzzakata fakhalloo sabeelahum innaAllaha ghafoorun raheemun -
And a Sign for them is the night. We withdraw from it the day, and behold, they are in darkness.
Waayatun lahumu allaylu naslakhu minhu alnnahara fa-itha hum muthlimoona
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Greetings with peace,
Hmm... How are the full moons restricted? (And also restricted full moons imply that there are unrestricted full moons. What to make of this?)
Anwar Azim
Peace all,
95. So when the restricted full moons are withdrawn, then you may kill those who have set up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and hold the contact-method, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
Fa-itha insalakha al-ashhuru alhurumufaoqtuloo almushrikeena haythu wajadtumoohum wakhuthoohumwaohsuroohum waoqAAudoo lahum kulla marsadinfa-in taboo waaqamoo alssalatawaatawoo alzzakata fakhalloo sabeelahum innaAllaha ghafoorun raheemun -
Salam Anwar Azim,
Hmm... How are the full moons restricted? (And also restricted full moons imply that there are unrestricted full moons. What to make of this?)
I'm not sure if I get what you mean but 936 can answer your question
- The count of the full moons with God is twelve fullmoon in God?s record the day He created the heavens and the Earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight those who set up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteous.
A. Shabir
936 Allah has ordained twelve months in one year. This has been Allah?s Ordinance since the day He created the heavens and the earth. Four of these Months are Sacred, forbidden for all warfare. (Mankind, through international treaties, must agree to shun all kind of warfare during these four months. This will give them a cooling off period that sense may prevail over emotions). This is the Firm Religion, the right way. So, do not wrong yourselves by fighting during the Sacred Months. However, you may fight the idolaters in any or all these months if they fight against you in any or all of them (2194). And know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves. (Four Sacred Months (2194), (91-5)).I understand that there is four restricted full moons and the other full moon there is no restriction about the warfare and the land hunt, IMO.
The God knows best
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Peace sister Marie,
Another detail which can bring some idea
After witnessing the full moon, it withdraws itself progressively from the the sun light and the moon becomes like an old curved sheath (3639), in other word the moon is in darkness.
In the same way for the daylight regarding the night..-
So when the restricted full moons are withdrawn, then you may kill those who have set up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and hold the contact-method, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
Fa-itha insalakha al-ashhuru alhurumufaoqtuloo almushrikeena haythu wajadtumoohum wakhuthoohumwaohsuroohum waoqAAudoo lahum kulla marsadinfa-in taboo waaqamoo alssalatawaatawoo alzzakata fakhalloo sabeelahum innaAllaha ghafoorun raheemun -
And a Sign for them is the night. We withdraw from it the day, and behold, they are in darkness.
Waayatun lahumu allaylu naslakhu minhu alnnahara fa-itha hum muthlimoona
This is great. Thank you for sharing this excellent observation.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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Peace Marie,
Thanks for your kind response. I think I got the sense.
Now, other questions pop up. By fullmoon, I suppose a period of time is implied, as can be sensed in "so do not wrong yourselves in them" (the key phrase is "in them"). How long is that precisely? And what about the period between one fullmoon to another? Is that restricted too?
Anwar Azim
Salam Anwar Azim,
Hmm... How are the full moons restricted? (And also restricted full moons imply that there are unrestricted full moons. What to make of this?)
I'm not sure if I get what you mean but 936 can answer your question
- The count of the full moons with God is twelve fullmoon in God?s record the day He created the heavens and the Earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight those who set up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteous.
A. Shabir
936 Allah has ordained twelve months in one year. This has been Allah?s Ordinance since the day He created the heavens and the earth. Four of these Months are Sacred, forbidden for all warfare. (Mankind, through international treaties, must agree to shun all kind of warfare during these four months. This will give them a cooling off period that sense may prevail over emotions). This is the Firm Religion, the right way. So, do not wrong yourselves by fighting during the Sacred Months. However, you may fight the idolaters in any or all these months if they fight against you in any or all of them (2194). And know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves. (Four Sacred Months (2194), (91-5)).I understand that there is four restricted full moons and the other full moon there is no restriction about the warfare and the land hunt, IMO.
The God knows best
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Peace Anwar,
Now, other questions pop up. By fullmoon, I suppose a period of time is implied, as can be sensed in "so do not wrong yourselves in them" (the key phrase is "in them"). How long is that precisely? And what about the period between one fullmoon to another? Is that restricted too?
I think that the way mensturations and full-moons are counted is the same.
In 2228, divorced women are to wait for 3 menturations (they are "restricted" from marriage during that period). Each mensturation is going to last for a certain number of days that is a little different from one woman to another. Also the time between mensturations is going to be different from one woman to another. Let's take an example. Suppose a divorced woman's mensturation lasts for 5 days and it comes every 28 days. Does this mean that the divorced woman is only restricted to marry during the 5 days when she is having her mensturation or is she also restricted between mensturations until the count of three mensturations passes? Of course she is restricted from marriage the period of mensuration and the period between one mensturation to another. Now replace mensturation with full-moon and you will get the answer to your question.
I hope this helps.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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Salam,
- And for Solomon the wind was given, traveling one month coming and one month going, and We caused a spring of tar to flow for him. And from among the Jinn are those that worked for him by his Lord's leave; and any one of them who turns from Our commands, We shall cause him to taste the retribution of the Fire.
Walisulaymana alrreeha ghuduwwuha shahrun warawahuha shahrun waasalna lahu AAayna alqitri wamina aljinni manyaAAmalu bayna yadayhi bi-ithni rabbihi waman yazighminhum AAan amrina nuthiqhu min AAathabi alssaAAeeri
"ghuduw" can also mean morning (7205)
I think that "ghuduwwuha" in 3412 means its morning course.
"rawah" occurs after "ghuduw"; one can travel in the morning and comes bak in the evening or in the night (rawah), then we can translate "rawahuha" as its evening/night course."And for Solomon the wind was given, its morning course in a full moon and its evening/night course in a full moon"
It seems coherent regarding the meaning of the word shahr , what do you think?
- And for Solomon the wind was given, traveling one month coming and one month going, and We caused a spring of tar to flow for him. And from among the Jinn are those that worked for him by his Lord's leave; and any one of them who turns from Our commands, We shall cause him to taste the retribution of the Fire.
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peace be upon you ayman,
in your article you said that debate/conference occurs four times in the period of four full moons, the ten days from the full moon to the crecent moon, does this include the full moon of ramadan? as you know in the debate/conference we are allowed and even told eat from the livestock that God provided us and we are to be abstaining in the full moon of ramadan
And call out to mankind with the debate, they will come to you walking and on every transport, they will come from every deep enclosure.
So that they may witness benefits for themselves and recall The God?s description in the appointed days over what He has provided for them of the animal livestock. So eat from it and feed the needy and the poor.Then let them complete their duties and fulfill their vows, and let them partake at the ancient house.
Thus, and whosoever honours The God?s restrictions, then it is better for him with His Lord. And the livestock is made lawful for you except what is recited upon you. So avoid the foulness of idols and avoid saying false statements. (2227-30) -
Peace Idris
in your article you said that debate/conference occurs four times in the period of four full moons, the ten days from the full moon to the crecent moon, does this include the full moon of ramadan? as you know in the debate/conference we are allowed and even told eat from the livestock that God provided us and we are to be abstaining in the full moon of ramadan
And call out to mankind with the debate, they will come to you walking and on every transport, they will come from every deep enclosure.
So that they may witness benefits for themselves and recall The God?s description in the appointed days over what He has provided for them of the animal livestock. So eat from it and feed the needy and the poor.Then let them complete their duties and fulfill their vows, and let them partake at the ancient house.
Thus, and whosoever honours The God?s restrictions, then it is better for him with His Lord. And the livestock is made lawful for you except what is recited upon you. So avoid the foulness of idols and avoid saying false statements. (2227-30)I am not sure about the answer but I think that we hear in 2197 that the debate takes place at known full-moons that WHOMEVER (ie people) has prescribed the debate in. So perhaps the debate can be prescribed in three out of the four restricted full-moons or at any time of the year. The only function of the restricted full-moons is the limitation on hunting. As far as I know, there is nothing that links them to the debate.
Perhaps we will find a better answer through more learning and debate.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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Peace Idris,
After pondering on your question some more, I think that we need to consider the purpose of 7ajj/debate. Here is something that I had posted on another thread that I think might help
My understanding is that "7ajj" is a gathering like the annual fair. People come from all over to trade, get benefits, meet other people, and be reminded of The God's favors. We are told in 2227 that Ibrahim invited people "WITH/BI al-7ajj" and not "TO/ILA al-7ajj" to witness benefits. You can only invite ALL people with something beneficial and non-descriminatory. We are told in 2827 that Moses was hired to work for 8 "7ijaj". What was hired to do? Clearly, he was hired to work and tend for sheep (2823-24) and NOT for any religious pilgrimage. What does working and tending sheep has to do with "7ajj"? Naturally, people work and produce so that they can BARGAIN with their products. Bargaining is a kind of debate and it results in witnessing benefits by the seller and the buyer. Thus, "al-7ajj"/the debate is like the annual fair where people work all year and then go to sell and/or buy products. Mid summer - early fall is the natural time for such markets because produce and livestock are plentiful. The large gathering of "7ajj" provides a good opportunity to remind as many people as possible of The God. It is also an opportunity for the advantaged to donate and provide for the disadvantaged.
When one keeps in mind the purpose of the debate, one can see that the time where in general produce and livestock are plentiful is the best time for the debate. The burning/red full-moon takes place between June 21-July 20 or so. The natural time to harvest most crops takes place from mid-July to about mid-October.
On another thread, brother Beatnik mentioned the harvest moon, which occurs after the autumn equinox. This moon is called so because its light gives farmers extra time to work and harvest their crops before the end of the season. At this stage, I think that out of the four restricted full-moons, the first full-moon (the burning/red full-moon) is for abstinence, while the remaining three are for the debate.
I hope this helps.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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peace upon you ayman,
Peace Idris,
After pondering on your question some more, I think that we need to consider the purpose of 7ajj/debate. Here is something that I had posted on another thread that I think might help
My understanding is that "7ajj" is a gathering like the annual fair. People come from all over to trade, get benefits, meet other people, and be reminded of The God's favors. We are told in 2227 that Ibrahim invited people "WITH/BI al-7ajj" and not "TO/ILA al-7ajj" to witness benefits. You can only invite ALL people with something beneficial and non-descriminatory. We are told in 2827 that Moses was hired to work for 8 "7ijaj". What was hired to do? Clearly, he was hired to work and tend for sheep (2823-24) and NOT for any religious pilgrimage. What does working and tending sheep has to do with "7ajj"? Naturally, people work and produce so that they can BARGAIN with their products. Bargaining is a kind of debate and it results in witnessing benefits by the seller and the buyer. Thus, "al-7ajj"/the debate is like the annual fair where people work all year and then go to sell and/or buy products. Mid summer - early fall is the natural time for such markets because produce and livestock are plentiful. The large gathering of "7ajj" provides a good opportunity to remind as many people as possible of The God. It is also an opportunity for the advantaged to donate and provide for the disadvantaged.
When one keeps in mind the purpose of the debate, one can see that the time where in general produce and livestock are plentiful is the best time for the debate. The burning/red full-moon takes place between June 21-July 20 or so. The natural time to harvest most crops takes place from mid-July to about mid-October.
On another thread, brother Beatnik mentioned the harvest moon, which occurs after the autumn equinox. This moon is called so because its light gives farmers extra time to work and harvest their crops before the end of the season. At this stage, I think that out of the four restricted full-moons, the first full-moon (the burning/red full-moon) is for abstinence, while the remaining three are for the debate.
I hope this helps.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
good explanation, I'll be abstaining this summer solstice except if The God wills, I find it interesting that the three months of harvest occur directly after the full moon of the summer solstice, which is ramadan
