War And Islam

[imrankhawaja]

Great !a very good point that i failed to notice . .

in WW2 ,the target were Jews which was based on religion

Now the target is terrorism but the hidden agenda are Muslims .As i told you before , Quran left nothing and to code the rules of War it was necessary to have a war

,imran .i have seen some representative of quran alone here rejecting the doctrine of our ancestors totally .
Since you have mention about Umar rasiallahuanhu ,he did his part .if he had not done his part then Islam might had been long forgotten religion .

RED handshake thats brilliant ... i always appreciate that..

GREEN the target was tecnology and controlling on tecnology the space race was also a part of it,, the roots ended in cold war between two superpowers one must have to give up...

and about jews killing it was just hiitlers personal grudge against them, due to what reason i really dnt know interestingly he was jew himself hmm

BLUE brother you going on wrong path again, proper secterian policy... do you really beleive its due to caliph omar islam is here?

dont you forget caliph omar left prophet in the middle of battle field when prophet was calling on everybody(alquran) but details are in authentic sources of hadith ... but again Allah forgive them all for this mistake...

what did God said at that occassion, that even if prophet died will you turn back on your heels, is God is not enough to protect everything that exist...?

if you wana talk about the history of wars what omar did.. dnt you know how many innocents get killed in these wars.. in one the account 1036 cities he attack and conquer them all... is it what quran is telling to spread islam on sword?

always remember what comes around what goes around...& tit for tat & as you sow so shall you reap... and cause and effect law of God..

how caliph oomar get assasinate , i will just tell you a simple story accoring to the accounts of bukhari and muslim.. somebody hire that assassign abu lulu feroz and he killed him according to plan, and including caliph omar he killed eight more there with in the mosque and in the end he killed himself... offcoarse there was not suicide bombs at that time... ! this is the first suicide attack of history due to the policies of war that omar made...

think about it forget what you study in schooling about caliph omar have a look from this angle these people was in a chance to take revenge from omar becoz due to the wars they lose their kids families... and result comes up like this...

a big result is still going on we have different sectors different teaching from last 1200 years fights of sunni shia , is very pouplar througout the history... even when changees khan attack on bughdad(iraq) sunni shia was having a munazara(debate) and changees khan banged both of them up... voodoo

you are saying islam would have lost ages ago infact yeh due to these early wars we have still viruses everywhere ... isis is the example of this nasty shit virus... who claim themselves a muslim infact they are not...

[parvez_mushtaq]

RED handshake thats brilliant ... i always appreciate that..

handshake

and about jews killing it was just hiitlers personal grudge against them, due to what reason i really dnt know interestingly he was jew himself hmm

I hope you have read my OP ,Imran
In my Op ,i wa trying to prove that ,It was the common agenda of every Christian in WWII .It was approved by church and Hitler was acting to the tunes of his pope .every christian was happy when Hitler was killing Jews .even he was considered as new messiah sent to Earth to save the world from Jews.

BLUE brother you going on wrong path again, proper secterian policy... do you really beleive its due to caliph omar islam is here?

dont you forget caliph omar left prophet in the middle of battle field when prophet was calling on everybody(alquran) but details are in authentic sources of hadith ... but again Allah forgive them all for this mistake...

what did God said at that occassion, that even if prophet died will you turn back on your heels, is God is not enough to protect everything that exist...?

if you wana talk about the history of wars what omar did.. dnt you know how many innocents get killed in these wars.. in one the account 1036 cities he attack and conquer them all... is it what quran is telling to spread islam on sword?

always remember what comes around what goes around...& tit for tat & as you sow so shall you reap... and cause and effect law of God..

how caliph oomar get assasinate , i will just tell you a simple story accoring to the accounts of bukhari and muslim.. somebody hire that assassign abu lulu feroz and he killed him according to plan, and including caliph omar he killed eight more there with in the mosque and in the end he killed himself... offcoarse there was not suicide bombs at that time... ! this is the first suicide attack of history due to the policies of war that omar made...

think about it forget what you study in schooling about caliph omar have a look from this angle these people was in a chance to take revenge from omar becoz due to the wars they lose their kids families... and result comes up like this...

a big result is still going on we have different sectors different teaching from last 1200 years fights of sunni shia , is very pouplar througout the history... even when changees khan attack on bughdad(iraq) sunni shia was having a munazara(debate) and changees khan banged both of them up... voodoo

you are saying islam would have lost ages ago infact yeh due to these early wars we have still viruses everywhere ... isis is the example of this nasty shit virus... who claim themselves a muslim infact they are not...

lol imran you seem to more confused than sectarians
in your previous post you said quran alone concept followed by caliphs .this was your post

brother first of all, there is no quranist here.. i m not atleast, look at the home page , its GOD alone not quran alone... the one who obey God and listen him and the one who follow the commands of God the same way how all the prophets obey the commmands of God is infaat submtting his will to God alone ,, thats whats there.. personally thw quranist is name given to those who uphold quran in thaat sense all early calips were quranist.. dnt go int these details...

So as per this post hazrat umar was a righteous man who followed quran alone .now you have different story to tell about umar rasiallahuanhu
I can understand that you are influenced by shia concept .lets see about Umar rasiallahuanhu
Firstly , he was the first to announce the Islamic rule all over the world .if you had read the back links that i gave about the jews in my posts had might have noticed that jews had their golden age under Muslims of 7th century
Umar raraiallahuanhu ,was the first to allow jews to to practice their religion freely and live in Jerusalem which was banned by Christians for about 500 years .
if he was the one like whom you are portraying in you posts than he might not had allowed jews to start the worship .as per wiki , on his death bed , these were his quotes

Be kind and generous to the Muhajirun and the Ansar. Those out of them who are good, be good to them; those who are bad overlook their lapses. Be good to the people of the conquered lands. They are the outer line of our defense; they are the target of the anger and distress of our enemies. They contribute to our revenues. They should be taxed only on their surplus wealth. Be gracious to the Bedouins as they are the backbone of the Arab nation. I instruct you to be good to the Dhimmis for they are your responsibility. Do not tax them beyond their capacity. Ensure that they pay the Jizya without undue inconvenience. Fear God, and in all that you do keep His pleasure in view. In the matter of people fear God, and in the matter of Allah do not be afraid of the people. With regard to the people, I enjoin upon you to administer justice with an even hand. See that all the legitimate requirements of the people are met. Be concerned for their welfare. Ensure the safety of their person and property. See that the frontiers of our domains are not violated. Take strong steps to guard the frontiers. In the matter of administration do not prefer the rich to the poor. Be hard against those who violate the law. Show them no mercy. Do not rest content until you have brought the miscreants to book. Treat all the people as equal. Be a pillar of strength for those who are weak and oppressed. Those who are strong but do wrong, make them pay for their wrong-doings. In the distribution of booty and other matters be above nepotism. Let no consideration of relationship or selfish interest weigh with you. The Satan is at large; it may tempt you. Rise above all temptations and perform your duties in accordance with the injunctions of Islam. Get guidance from the Holy Quran and Sunnah. Freely consult the wise men around you. Apply your own mind in difficult cases, and seek light from God. Be simple in your living and your habits. Let there be no show or ostentation about you. Lead life as a model Muslim. As you are the leader of the Muslims, justify your leadership by being the best among them all. May God bless you.

I recommend you to study about umar rasiallahu from the sources that are neutral to both sunni and shia

He was the great administrator who showed Muslim how to implement the rules of ALLAH subahnavatala in a practical way .no doubt , our prophet was the first man to show but umar rasiallahanhu was the first man to implemented them in a bigger level

[Bender]

every christian was happy when Hitler was killing Jews .

This is nonsense.

[imrankhawaja]

.lol imran you seem to more confused than sectarians
in your previous post you said quran alone concept followed by caliphs .this was your post So as per this post hazrat umar was a righteous man who followed quran alone .now you have different story to tell about umar rasiallahuanhu

why did you lie.. read my post again i did not say anybody righteous i told you the defination of quranist... becoz bukhari never existed at the time of umar... by default he was quranist...and righteos and wrong well judged by God ,,

moreover the predictions of righteous and paradise holder secterians people do... like look at you raziallatalaunhu hahaha rotfl what does it mean... do u really know about it... its another topic for you to research ...

I can understand that you are influenced by shia concept .lets see about Umar rasiallahuanhu

you are more than forty my brother and i doubt you did not study history througout your life , otherwise you would have never claim this thing...the difference between the reading and listening is all about that going on here... u listen , but i read by myself.. well the event of omar assassination is recorded in the books of sunni... shia books come later , becoz sunni keep a bit a respect for our elders but shias on these occassion tell things in perosnal grudge but things copied from sunni sorces.....
but if you want me to provide the reference of sunni teaching and books i will tell you the history which you never study or listen somewhere..

yeh omar left prophet in the battlefield of uhud...
yeh omar assinate due to the violation of wars in early period..
yeh omar disobey the command of prophet when he was asking for a paper and pen to write something...
and many more but all these things are recorded in bukhari , the most authentic version of people like you, get a time and read it by urself...

Firstly , he was the first to announce the Islamic rule all over the world .if you had read the back links that i gave about the jews in my posts had might have noticed that jews had their golden age under Muslims of 7th century
Umar raraiallahuanhu ,was the first to allow jews to to practice their religion freely and live in Jerusalem which was banned by Christians for about 500 years .
if he was the one like whom you are portraying in you posts than he might not had allowed jews to start the worship .as per wiki , on his death bed , these were his quotes

he conquer 1036 cities with the help of khalid bin waleed, and in the command of khalid bin waleed the rape assasin was happening like its early changees khan... lol i dnt beleive it though, but thats what your history books are telling us... which is very much authentic accoridng to your point of view... after that omr suspend khalid bin waleed ... there are more things i want to add.. but i m afraid omar really did it or it was a ficticious charatcer by bukhari and company to issue fatwas ,

like divorce( wrong judgement) opposing the quran ... = shirk
adding things in azaan of fajar.. = biddat
lot more things... just take these two as a starting homework,,

yeh i forget to tell you its not my claim about divorce issue you favourite person dr naik also say same thing about omar and he also claim that omar was regreted in the last days of his life that its a wrong fatwa he issue against God and prophet book.... want ref or video most welcome any time..

I recommend you to study about umar rasiallahu from the sources that are neutral to both sunni and shia

thanx God i never get in the trap of any sunni shia, ahlehadith , deobandi becoz the stories of caliphs well recorded in the scholling and books but when i read real srtory in the same referenced book things automatically get cleared ... this advice i think you need to take,,,
once again forget about sunni shia doctrine read history neutrally...

u did not give the answers yer.. what was the reason of fisrt fitna and second fitna,,, both were muslim parties and which releigion they were fighting about,,, sunni shia... isnt it...

you changed the topic anyway i will look forward to ask ur answers...

peace

[imrankhawaja]

sometimes its difficult to give answers of some questions but its helpful for people of reasonings , i know you suddenly realise it thats y you skip the questions and cover yourself in the veil of traditional muslim... lol rotfli dnt want to ridicule you but the fact is this...

Since you have mention about Umar rasiallahuanhu ,he did his part .if he had not done his part then Islam might had been long forgotten religion . your reasoning... and i ask a question regarding this like this

BLUE brother you going on wrong path again, proper secterian policy... do you really beleive its due to caliph omar islam is here?

even i highlighted it in blue , but you failed to provide a reason oofcoarse becoz your reasoning is contradicting with quran..?

traditional muslim is also stuck in the ego of man made concepts and they try to correct quran with these understanding , forget about quran, hadith must be match ,, whatever quran said its not important whatever hadith say its worthy... then y dnt you judge all things throigh hadith and reference which i provide there...

if one account is telling omar was rightoeus... u accept that...
but when ten accounts are teling he did something which was out of order... .. then why dnt accept that as well...

what is the criteria of the teaching you guys follow... select a favourite one? or you they still beleive to filter things through quran...?

[parvez_mushtaq]

This is nonsense.

oh is it a nonsense uh.Ben
lets check it out
firstly the effect on children
Finding a rescuer was quite difficult .Christians, in those days convinced Jews as their rescuers and demanded money from them but they broke their promises and showed them to the authorities in greed of awards .Children were kept in cellars and attics and for many days they were made to sit quite because Any noise or conversation, footsteps could arouse their Christian neighbors suspicion and perhaps even prompt a police raid.it was essential for Jews to pass as Aryans and they have to make false identity papers .in order to hide their identity those children never used a public restroom or participated in sports and even they dressed like girls could lead to their discovery.

is it not because of Christians ,Ben

secondly , their Christian neighbor ,UK kept their doors shut but they took pride in deporting them to Palestine .i think you left the quote of then British PM in my OP
i will reproduce it here for you

British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain Said No doubt Jews arent a lovable people; I dont care about them myself. But that is not sufficient to explain the pogrom.

secondly let me make another quote form France , Louis-Ferdinand C?line,a French novelist, pamphleteer and physician. wrote
"I feel myself very friendly to Hitler, and to all Germans, whom I feel to be my brothers Our real enemies are Jews and Masons", and "Yids are like bedbugs."

do you know why Christians made Jews to settle down in Palestine .bible is the reason .just Christian Zionism
I can write pages after pages about the hatred of Christians during WWII

Nevertheless Hitler's pope's plan was executed promptly

[parvez_mushtaq]

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you are more than forty my brother and i doubt you did not study history througout your life , otherwise you would have never claim this thing...the difference between the reading and listening is all about that going on here... u listen , but i read by myself.. well the event of omar assassination is recorded in the books of sunni... shia books come later , becoz sunni keep a bit a respect for our elders but shias on these occassion tell things in perosnal grudge but things copied from sunni sorces.....
but if you want me to provide the reference of sunni teaching and books i will tell you the history which you never study or listen somewhere..

The last thing i will ever do in my life is listening sermons ,imran
BTW ,why did you read the bakwaas shia books and why did you left bakwaas sunni books

yeh omar left prophet in the battlefield of uhud...
yeh omar assinate due to the violation of wars in early period..
yeh omar disobey the command of prophet when he was asking for a paper and pen to write something...
and many more but all these things are recorded in bukhari , the most authentic version of people like you, get a time and read it by urself...

Lol ,imran .by the end of the day home is the abode .what ever be the level you reach ,you are ultimately a shia and now you are showing your colors .be a true quranist ,bro .you are asking these questions to a wrong man in a wrong site .try gawaher.com
all your bakwaas claims belong to shia and you have chosen a wrong person to question this bakwaas .i am not a die hard hard salafi and i am not interested in arguing these claims because i don't believe in the science of ahadith .my understanding is very simple ,if the hadith goes well with quran , i take it otherwise i leave them as bakwaas .pl don't expect shia /sunni clash in my thread

however i will take this question from you

....but i read by myself.. well the event of omar assassination is recorded in the books of sunni...

note that i am not answering you but i am using it to develop my post

as per you ,by sunni sources the assassination of umar rasiallahuanhu
i will reproduce your post here

how caliph oomar get assasinate , i will just tell you a simple story accoring to the accounts of bukhari and muslim.. somebody hire that assassign abu lulu feroz and he killed him according to plan, and including caliph omar he killed eight more there with in the mosque and in the end he killed himself... offcoarse there was not suicide bombs at that time... ! this is the first suicide attack of history due to the policies of war that omar made...

lets check out the ather regrading this

this is the ather
Vol. 5, Book 57, Hadith 50
Narrated `Amr bin Maimun

I saw Umar bin Al-Khattab a few days before he was stabbed in Medina. He was standing with Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman and Uthman bin Hunaif to whom he said, "What have you done? Do you think that you have imposed more taxation on the land (of As-Swad i.e. 'Iraq) than it can bear?" They replied, "We have imposed on it what it can bear because of its great yield." Umar again said, "Check whether you have imposed on the land what it can not bear." They said, "No, (we haven't)." Umar added, "If Allah should keep me alive I will let the widows of Iraq need no men to support them after me." But only four days had elapsed when he was stabbed (to death ). The day he was stabbed, I was standing and there was nobody between me and him (i.e. Umar) except Abdullah bin Abbas. Whenever Umar passed between the two rows, he would say, "Stand in straight lines." When he saw no defect (in the rows), he would go forward and start the prayer with Takbir. He would recite Surat Yusuf or An-Nahl or the like in the first raka so that the people may have the time to Join the prayer. As soon as he said Takbir, I heard him saying, "The dog has killed or eaten me," at the time he (i.e. the murderer) stabbed him. A non-Arab infidel proceeded on carrying a double-edged knife and stabbing all the persons he passed by on the right and left (till) he stabbed thirteen persons out of whom seven died. When one of the Muslims saw that, he threw a cloak on him. Realizing that he had been captured, the non-Arab infidel killed himself, Umar held the hand of Abdur-Rahman bin Auf and let him lead the prayer. Those who were standing by the side of Umar saw what I saw, but the people who were in the other parts of the Mosque did not see anything, but they lost the voice of Umar and they were saying, "Subhan Allah! Subhan Allah! (i.e. Glorified be Allah)." Abdur-Rahman bin Auf led the people a short prayer. When they finished the prayer, Umar said, "O Ibn Abbas! Find out who attacked me." Ibn Abbas kept on looking here and there for a short time and came to say. "The slave of Al Mughira." On that Umar said, "The craftsman?" Ibn Abbas said, "Yes." Umar said, "May Allah curse him. I did not treat him unjustly. All the Praises are for Allah Who has not caused me to die at the hand of a man who claims himself to be a Muslim. No doubt, you and your father (Abbas) used to love to have more non-Arab infidels in Medina." Al-Abbas had the greatest number of slaves. Ibn Abbas said to Umar. "If you wish, we will do." He meant, "If you wish we will kill them." Umar said, "You are mistaken (for you can't kill them) after they have spoken your language, prayed towards your Qibla, and performed Hajj like yours." Then Umar was carried to his house, and we went along with him, and the people were as if they had never suffered a calamity before. Some said, "Do not worry (he will be Alright soon)." Some said, "We are afraid (that he will die)." Then an infusion of dates was brought to him and he drank it but it came out (of the wound) of his belly. Then milk was brought to him and he drank it, and it also came out of his belly. The people realized that he would die. We went to him, and the people came, praising him. A young man came saying, "O chief of the believers! Receive the glad tidings from Allah to you due to your company with Allah's Messenger (&#65018 and your superiority in Islam which you know. Then you became the ruler (i.e. Caliph) and you ruled with justice and finally you have been martyred." Umar said, "I wish that all these privileges will counterbalance (my shortcomings) so that I will neither lose nor gain anything." When the young man turned back to leave, his clothes seemed to be touching the ground. Umar said, "Call the young man back to me." (When he came back) Umar said, "O son of my brother! Lift your clothes, for this will keep your clothes clean and save you from the Punishment of your Lord." Umar further said, "O Abdullah bin Umar! See how much I am in debt to others." When the debt was checked, it amounted to approximately eighty-six thousand. Umar said, "If the property of Umar's family covers the debt, then pay the debt thereof; otherwise request it from Bani Adi bin Kab, and if that too is not sufficient, ask for it from Quraish tribe, and do not ask for it from any one else, and pay this debt on my behalf." Umar then said (to Abdullah), "Go to Aisha (the mother of the believers) and say "Umar is paying his salutation to you. But don't say 'The chief of the believers,' because today I am not the chief of the believers. And say "Umar bin Al-Khattab asks the permission to be buried with his two companions (i.e. the Prophet, and Abu Bakr)." Abdullah greeted Aisha and asked for the permission for entering, and then entered to her and found her sitting and weeping. He said to her, "Umar bin Al-Khattab is paying his salutations to you, and asks the permission to be buried with his two companions." She said, "I had the idea of having this place for myself, but today I prefer Umar to myself." When he returned it was said (to Umar), "Abdullah bin Umar has come." Umar said, "Make me sit up." Somebody supported him against his body and Umar asked (Abdullah), "What news do you have?" He said, "O chief of the believers! It is as you wish. She has given the permission." Umar said, "Praise be to Allah, there was nothing more important to me than this. So when I die, take me, and greet Aisha and say "Umar bin Al-Khattab asks the permission (to be buried with the Prophet (&#65018 ), and if she gives the permission, bury me there, and if she refuses, then take me to the grave-yard of the Muslims." Then Hafsa (the mother of the believers) came with many other women walking with her. When we saw her, we went away. She went in (to Umar) and wept there for sometime. When the men asked for permission to enter, she went into another place, and we heard her weeping inside. The people said (to Umar), "O chief of the believers! Appoint a successor." Umar said, "I do not find anyone more suitable for the job than the following persons or group whom Allah's Messenger (&#65018 had been pleased with before he died." Then Umar mentioned Ali, Uthman, AzZubair, Talha, Sad and Abdur-Rahman (bin Auf) and said, "Abdullah bin Umar will be a witness to you, but he will have no share in the rule. His being a witness will compensate him for not sharing the right of ruling. If Sad becomes the ruler, it will be alright otherwise, whoever becomes the ruler should seek his help, as I have not dismissed him because of disability or dishonesty." Umar added, "I recommend that my successor takes care of the early emigrants; to know their rights and protect their honor and sacred things. I also recommend that he be kind to the Ansar who had lived in Medina before the emigrants and Belief had entered their hearts before them. I recommend that the (ruler) should accept the good of the righteous among them and excuse their wrong-doers, and I recommend that he should do good to all the people of the towns (Al-Ansar), as they are the protectors of Islam and the source of wealth and the source of annoyance to the enemy. I also recommend that nothing be taken from them except from their surplus with their consent. I also recommend that he do good to the 'Arab bedouin, as they are the origin of the 'Arabs and the material of Islam. He should take from what is inferior, amongst their properties and distribute that to the poor amongst them. I also recommend him concerning Allah's and His Apostle's protectees (i.e. Dhimmis) to fulfill their contracts and to fight for them and not to overburden them with what is beyond their ability." So when Umar expired, we carried him out and set out walking. Abdullah bin Umar greeted (Aisha) and said, "Umar bin Al-Khattab asks for the permission." Aisha said, "Bring him in." He was brought in and buried beside his two companions. When he was buried, the group (recommended by Umar) held a meeting. Then Abdur-Rahman said, " Reduce the candidates for rulership to three of you." Az-Zubair said, "I give up my right to Ali." Talha said, "I give up my right to Uthman," Sad, 'I give up my right to Abdur-Rahman bin Auf." Abdur-Rahman then said (to Uthman and Ali), "Now which of you is willing to give up his right of candidacy to that he may choose the better of the (remaining) two, bearing in mind that Allah and Islam will be his witnesses." So both the sheiks (i.e. Uthman and Ali) kept silent. Abdur-Rahman said, "Will you both leave this matter to me, and I take Allah as my Witness that I will not choose but the better of you?" They said, "Yes." So Abdur-Rahman took the hand of one of them (i.e. Ali) and said, "You are related to Allah's Messenger (&#65018 and one of the earliest Muslims as you know well. So I ask you by Allah to promise that if I select you as a ruler you will do justice, and if I select Uthman as a ruler you will listen to him and obey him." Then he took the other (i.e. Uthman) aside and said the same to him. When Abdur-Rahman secured (their agreement to) this covenant, he said, "O Uthman! Raise your hand." So he (i.e. Abdur-Rahman) gave him (i.e. Uthman) the solemn pledge, and then Ali gave him the pledge of allegiance and then all the (Medina) people gave him the pledge of allegiance.

a part of which i have quoted before .this is the full ather
what grabed my attention in this ather was that which i have highlighted in green .i dont want to worry about the man called umar rasiallahunahu but what i am interested is about the way he administrated for which we have historical proofs .let me take as an example ,the conquering of Palestine
firstly , Palestine was captured by Muslims without much blood shed .the another difference is that , Umar rasiallahuanhu giving respect to command of Patriarch of Jerusalem ,Sophronius,he came all the way to meet him and made negotiations with him .and the treaty as under

In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate. This is the assurance of safety which the servant of God, Umar, the Commander of the Faithful, has given to the people of Jerusalem. He has given them an assurance of safety for themselves for their property, their churches, their crosses, the sick and healthy of the city and for all the rituals which belong to their religion. Their churches will not be inhabited by Muslims and will not be destroyed. Neither they, nor the land on which they stand, nor their cross, nor their property will be damaged. They will not be forcibly converted. No Jew will live with them in Jerusalem.

The people of Jerusalem must pay the taxes like the people of other cities and must expel the Byzantines and the robbers. Those of the people of Jerusalem who want to leave with the Byzantines, take their property and abandon their churches and crosses will be safe until they reach their place of refuge. The villagers may remain in the city if they wish but must pay taxes like the citizens. Those who wish may go with the Byzantines and those who wish may return to their families. Nothing is to be taken from them before their harvest is reaped.

If they pay their taxes according to their obligations, then the conditions laid out in this letter are under the covenant of God, are the responsibility of His Prophet, of the caliphs and of the faithful.

? Quoted in The Great Arab Conquests, from Tarikh Tabari

While there is a clause in the treaty regarding the banning of Jews from Jerusalem, its authenticity is debated.
these things were new to the world in those days because ,usually army use to march into the city destroying everything and killing as many people as they can .
this treaty was made as base for the rulers after umar rasiallahuanu .these treaty was kept as base by both ,Umayyad and Abbasid
the result was
1.jizya was much lower when compared to the taxes collected by Christians and Persians
2.there was tolerance in Muslims occupied states
3.Muslims never used to destroys the places of worship
all these things never happened during Christians reign on the other hand ,they stopped Jews to practice their religion for 500 hundred years it was umar rasiallahu who allowed them to practice their religion .all these things were drived from quran .can you able to appreciate the difference between quran followers and others

[imrankhawaja]

by the end of the day home is the abode .what ever be the level you reach ,you are ultimately a shia and now you are showing your colors .be a true quranist ,bro .you are asking these questions to a wrong man in a wrong site .try gawaher.com

you are guessing wrong .. obviously becoz u dnt know unseen...
hahahahahahaha.... i born as a hardcore sunni in hardcore sunni famly... but as a historian i need to study all the sources whether it comes from shia or from sunni or from any tom dick and harry.. research always done on the basis of neutralisation... which you failed to provide in all of yoir previous posts , suddenly u take uturn and twist your own questions police

all your bakwaas claims belong to shia and you have chosen a wrong person to question this bakwaas .i am not a die hard hard salafi and i am not interested in arguing these claims because i don't believe in the science of ahadith .my understanding is very simple ,if the hadith goes well with quran , i take it otherwise i leave them as bakwaas .pl don't expect shia /sunni clash in my thread

very simple you are not answering them becoz u dnt have any answers , not any of your senior salafi like zakir naik... have it as well...

these bakwas claims what i did came from bakwas hadaith of bakwas salafai its not my claims it belong to bukhari...
which also have lot of other surprises about the bed life of prohpet which i rely deny ... thats y according to true sunni about 15 yearss ago i research all of the salafi sunni teaching which i find full of shit... honestly...

regarding these claims either the bukhari = wrong. or omar = wrong.. you can only select one select wisely... hmm

apart from all , again miss the question i mean important question which i ask... ? do u have a short term memory lost or dnt you really have answer...

infact you are showing ur true color of traditional muslims.. i thank to God that he guided me to learn about the special book what our prophet brings for us from God... in my school and family age sunni want to put a honey trap on my neck but lucikly i get save becoz i love my God and he saved me from lot of traps... and in their own books i find things which really bring a result for me to reject all of these shit sharia man made law... and i have no regret.. since that day i have a strange peace in my mind... try it once...

RED yeh thats what reason suggest us to do.. but again look at the tafseers of the event of battle uhud, when some of them left prophet in the battlefield... according to the sources and tafseers by salafi group... i mean bukhari group abaubakar was the firstone who came back and omar was hiding behind somewhere and crying with fear.. thaat what they present the whole story like this.. will you gona beleive it now... but shia sources tell this story in more dramatic way which i never interested... becoz sunnis own schooling telling this as truth...

NOTE all these findings are not my own analysis or personal agenda or any secterian fight.. it all what i present here is already recorded in the books of history or hadeeth... so never consider it as any hateful speech... infact its not my speech any way its the headcahe of sunni/salafi group whether the books they fiollow really hold water when filter in the light of quran...

try to give the answer what i ask in blue on previous posts mr pervaz mushtaq.. i m anaxiously waiting for that one.. whats ur doctrine about that due to which i need to start all this history with you lol

[Bender]

oh is it a nonsense uh.Ben

you said "EVERY christian" and that is nonsense Parv!

lets check it out
firstly the effect on children
Finding a rescuer was quite difficult . Christians, in those days convinced Jews as their rescuers and demanded money from them but they broke their promises and showed them to the authorities in greed of awards . Children were kept in cellars and attics and for many days they were made to sit quite because Any noise or conversation, footsteps could arouse their Christian neighbors? suspicion and perhaps even prompt a police raid.it was essential for Jews to pass as Aryans and they have to make false identity papers .in order to hide their identity those children never used a public restroom or participated in sports and even they dressed like girls could lead to their discovery.

is it not because of Christians ,Ben

All Christians did this?

secondly , their Christian neighbor ,UK kept their doors shut but they took pride in deporting them to Palestine .i think you left the quote of then British PM in my OP
i will reproduce it here for you

British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain Said ?No doubt Jews aren?t a lovable people; I don?t care about them myself. But that is not sufficient to explain the pogrom.?

ok, but what has this to do with Christians?

secondly let me make another quote form France , Louis-Ferdinand C?line,a French novelist, pamphleteer and physician. wrote
"I feel myself very friendly to Hitler, and to all Germans, whom I feel to be my brothers ? Our real enemies are Jews and Masons", and "Yids are like bedbugs."

ok, but what has this to do with Christians?

do you know why Christians made Jews to settle down in Palestine .bible is the reason .just Christian Zionism
I can write pages after pages about the hatred of Christians during WWII

Can you also write something positive about them?

[parvez_mushtaq]

.........

regarding these claims either the bukhari = wrong. or omar = wrong.. you can only select one select wisely... hmm

apart from all , again miss the question i mean important question which i ask... ? do u have a short term memory lost or dnt you really have answer...

infact you are showing ur true color of traditional muslims.. i thank to God that he guided me to learn about the special book what our prophet brings for us from God... in my school and family age sunni want to put a honey trap on my neck but lucikly i get save becoz i love my God and he saved me from lot of traps... and in their own books i find things which really bring a result for me to reject all of these shit sharia man made law... and i have no regret.. since that day i have a strange peace in my mind... try it once...

RED yeh thats what reason suggest us to do.. but again look at the tafseers of the event of battle uhud, when some of them left prophet in the battlefield... according to the sources and tafseers by salafi group... i mean bukhari group abaubakar was the firstone who came back and omar was hiding behind somewhere and crying with fear.. thaat what they present the whole story like this.. will you gona beleive it now... but shia sources tell this story in more dramatic way which i never interested... becoz sunnis own schooling telling this as truth...

NOTE all these findings are not my own analysis or personal agenda or any secterian fight.. it all what i present here is already recorded in the books of history or hadeeth... so never consider it as any hateful speech... infact its not my speech any way its the headcahe of sunni/salafi group whether the books they fiollow really hold water when filter in the light of quran...

try to give the answer what i ask in blue on previous posts mr pervaz mushtaq.. i m anaxiously waiting for that one.. whats ur doctrine about that due to which i need to start all this history with you lol

BLUE brother you going on wrong path again, proper secterian policy... do you really beleive its due to caliph omar islam is here?

Firstly , i apologize for the delay .what to do i have my priorities .i am here just because of this verses
Verse 7. 175
And recite to them, , the news of him to whom we gave Our signs, but he detached himself from them; so Satan pursued him, and he became of the deviators.

Verse 7.176
And if We had willed, we could have elevated him thereby, but he adhered to the earth and followed his own desire. So his example is like that of the dog if you chase him, he pants, or if you leave him, he pants. That is the example of the people who denied Our signs. So relate the stories that perhaps they will give thought.

There are tow important conclusions to make from these ayahs
1.if we have knowledge then we should not bother of about worldly gains but to stick to the justice
2.even after knowledge ,we can be mislead, in other words since we have free will ,we can always get allure to worldly gains

now let me take the case of umar rasiallahuanhu
firstly , i want to make one point very clear .i am not arguing about umar rasiallahuanhu with ahadith rather i am inclining myself towards history and comparing Islam with the other religions in warfare

As per history ,Umar rasiallahu lived a simple life .if this claim is wrong then we will find his palace because both Romans and Persians lived in palaces during his periods
As per history , he traveled all the way to Palestine in order to avoid blood shed .this fact implicate he had uphold the verse 5.32
As per history , he gave the religious freedom to all religions again this remind me verse 109.6
As per history , he leaved a nominal jizya on the people of other religions again the verse 9.29
As per history ,people of other religions never had problems from his people and they lived peacefully ,the verse is 60.08

these things are very new to those people but for us they are as per our norms of living .as per verses 7.125 and 125 , he was given knowledge but he never diverted from the fear of ALLAH subahnavatala and he was the first to implement Quran at a bigger level .his successors made him and his logic as their model for at least 400 years .he was rightly guided as well as he guided those who followed him to a correct way .
Of course ,ALLAH subhanavatala has chosen him for this job but at the same time he was not like the one in verses 7.125 & 126 .If ALLAH subhanavatala had willed he could have made him like the one in the verse 7.125 and 126 but he was chosen for that job and he did it to his best .hope i have answered your question ,imran

Now regarding , Rasialallahuanu ....
every true Muslim including you and me are striving for this raasi of ALLAH subahnavatala .i don't see anything funny in calling rasiallahuanu or calling you raasiallhuanka .the ultimate achievement is to please ALLAH subhanavatala
as per the verse 89.23
And brought , that Day, is Hell - that Day, man will remember, but what good to him will be the remembrance?

you as well as me should not curse our self's as per the verse 89.24
He will say, "Oh, I wish I had sent ahead for my life."

we both should be like as in the verse 98.08
Their reward with Allah will be gardens of perpetual residence beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever, Allah being pleased with them and they with Him. That is for whoever has feared his Lord.

what is life after all , i may live another 20 years maximum but the ultimate thing is to please ALLAH subahnavtala

[imrankhawaja]

hahahaha brother thats how you are giving me the answer of my questions?

i just ask a simple question you claimed its due to omar islam is here otherwise it gone ages ago...just yes or no...how hard it that...

how many marks you will get in exam if you answer something else.... regarding the subject of question? not atleast passing marks i m sure...

BTW the verses are far away from subject what is going on here... wow

Firstly , i apologize for the delay .what to do i have my priorities .i am here just because of this verses
Verse 7. 175
And recite to them, , the news of him to whom we gave Our signs, but he detached himself from them; so Satan pursued him, and he became of the deviators.

Verse 7.176
And if We had willed, we could have elevated him thereby, but he adhered to the earth and followed his own desire. So his example is like that of the dog if you chase him, he pants, or if you leave him, he pants. That is the example of the people who denied Our signs. So relate the stories that perhaps they will give thought.

There are tow important conclusions to make from these ayahs
1.if we have knowledge then we should not bother of about worldly gains but to stick to the justice
2.even after knowledge ,we can be mislead, in other words since we have free will ,we can always get allure to worldly gains

now let me take the case of umar rasiallahuanhu
firstly , i want to make one point very clear .i am not arguing about umar rasiallahuanhu with ahadith rather i am inclining myself towards history and comparing Islam with the other religions in warfare

As per history ,Umar rasiallahu lived a simple life .if this claim is wrong then we will find his palace because both Romans and Persians lived in palaces during his periods
As per history , he traveled all the way to Palestine in order to avoid blood shed .this fact implicate he had uphold the verse 5.32
As per history , he gave the religious freedom to all religions again this remind me verse 109.6
As per history , he leaved a nominal jizya on the people of other religions again the verse 9.29
As per history ,people of other religions never had problems from his people and they lived peacefully ,the verse is 60.08

these things are very new to those people but for us they are as per our norms of living .as per verses 7.125 and 125 , he was given knowledge but he never diverted from the fear of ALLAH subahnavatala and he was the first to implement Quran at a bigger level .his successors made him and his logic as their model for at least 400 years .he was rightly guided as well as he guided those who followed him to a correct way .
Of course ,ALLAH subhanavatala has chosen him for this job but at the same time he was not like the one in verses 7.125 & 126 .If ALLAH subhanavatala had willed he could have made him like the one in the verse 7.125 and 126 but he was chosen for that job and he did it to his best .hope i have answered your question ,imran

Now regarding , Rasialallahuanu ....
every true Muslim including you and me are striving for this raasi of ALLAH subahnavatala .i don't see anything funny in calling rasiallahuanu or calling you raasiallhuanka .the ultimate achievement is to please ALLAH subhanavatala
as per the verse 89.23
And brought , that Day, is Hell - that Day, man will remember, but what good to him will be the remembrance?

you as well as me should not curse our self's as per the verse 89.24
He will say, "Oh, I wish I had sent ahead for my life."

we both should be like as in the verse 98.08
Their reward with Allah will be gardens of perpetual residence beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever, Allah being pleased with them and they with Him. That is for whoever has feared his Lord.

what is life after all , i may live another 20 years maximum but the ultimate thing is to please ALLAH subahnavtala

may Gog grant you healthy and long life... but again its fftopic

infact you are telling the accounts of history i am also telling the accounts of history in light of this what do we beleive we both were not present there...

shall we select our favourite historian to decide something what exactly happen there...

as far i concern despite of all these things ... there is a very very very clear contradiction in history just one point

he traveled all the way to Palestine in order to avoid blood shed .

or

he conquer 1036 cities in his commmand with lot of bloodsheeding

just one random point i pick and an immediate contradiction happen....

even he avoid blood sheed there in palestine i have no problem agreeing with it but why did not this policy he applied throughout 1036 cities...

[Bender]

may Gog grant you healthy and long life...

I think you meant Magog.

[imrankhawaja]

I think you meant Magog.

i just looked it thanx for correcting ,, its God actually spelling mistake...

-[

[parvez_mushtaq]

you said "EVERY christian" and that is nonsense Parv!
All Christians did this?

of course ,Ben .Otherwise they could not have killed millions of jews .for example , suppose , in your country ,if the government made a rule to deport all the Muslims and you are in a hide out .the authorities will never know about you until someone among your neighbor tells them about you .exactly ,this is what happened to Jews .every christian had the killer instinct for Jews those days .

ok, but what has this to do with Christians?
ok, but what has this to do with Christians?

leaders wanted to please their people and Church and the best way to please them is to humiliate Jews .this is just a minute outlet of their hatred .every Christians ,even today might be enjoying their triumph .even today ,Jews will know about their true colors if they impose restrictions for their pilgrimages .Christians think Jews are the better protectors of their holy places than Muslims that is why they are acting like a good friends .only Jews and Muslims are the true monotheistic religion of Abrahamic faith .Christians are the pagan version of of Abrahamic faith and they don't stand anywhere near Jews and Muslims

Can you also write something positive about them?

nope ! they are the killers and even today they are doing successfully

[Comrox]

I think you meant Magog.

rotfl rotfl

[parvez_mushtaq]

......
..............
..........................
may Gog grant you healthy and long life... but again its fftopic

....................

i just looked it thanx for correcting ,, its God actually spelling mistake...

-[

Thank you imran for your concern

[parvez_mushtaq]

hahahaha brother thats how you are giving me the answer of my questions?

i just ask a simple question you claimed its due to omar islam is here otherwise it gone ages ago...just yes or no...how hard it that...

how many marks you will get in exam if you answer something else.... regarding the subject of question? not atleast passing marks i m sure...

BTW the verses are far away from subject what is going on here... wow

I am right on the topic ,imran
the problem with you is you prefer to answer my post ,if you try to analyze and apply reasoning you will know i am perfectly on the topic

.........

infact you are telling the accounts of history i am also telling the accounts of history in light of this what do we beleive we both were not present there...

shall we select our favourite historian to decide something what exactly happen there...

as far i concern despite of all these things ... there is a very very very clear contradiction in history just one point

he traveled all the way to Palestine in order to avoid blood shed .

or

he conquer 1036 cities in his commmand with lot of bloodsheeding

just one random point i pick and an immediate contradiction happen....

even he avoid blood sheed there in palestine i have no problem agreeing with it but why did not this policy he applied throughout 1036 cities...

You have made Umar rasiallahuanu a killer ,imran .you as well as every one here wants give a apologetic view on Quran

To know about umar rasiallahuanhu ,first you should know the the conditions that were prevailing during those days .
let me start with the verse from suhra Rum
Verse 30.02
The Byzantines have been defeated
Verse 30.03
In the nearest land. But they, after their defeat, will overcome.

By this verse ,you might be aware of the Byzantine?Sasanian wars
after capturing Jerusalem , Persians burned the churches and destroyed lot of holy places .they took True Cross, the Holy Lance, and the Holy Sponge, to the Persian capital Ctesiphon and after conquering Egypt ,as per wiki

After conquering Egypt, Khosrau sent Heraclius the following letter

Khosrau, greatest of Gods, and master of the earth, to Heraclius, his vile and insensate slave. Why do you still refuse to submit to our rule, and call yourself a king? Have I not destroyed the Greeks? You say that you trust in your God. Why has he not delivered out of my hand Caesarea, Jerusalem, and Alexandria? And shall I not also destroy Constantinople? But I will pardon your faults if you submit to me, and come hither with your wife and children; and I will give you lands, vineyards, and olive groves, and look upon you with a kindly aspect. Do not deceive yourself with vain hope in that Christ, who was not able to save himself from the Jews, who killed him by nailing him to a cross. Even if you take refuge in the depths of the sea, I will stretch out my hand and take you, whether you will or no.
?Khosrau II

as a retaliation ,Heraclius destroyed the famous fire temple of Takht-i-Suleiman, an important Zoroastrian shrine.

So it was all the way a religious wars .the religious tolerance was completely ruled out .only the fittest can survive .

on the other hand umar rasiallahuanhu quoted

I wish that between the Suwad and the Persian hills there were walls which would prevent them from getting to us, and prevent us from getting to them. The fertile Suwad is sufficient for us; and I prefer the safety of the Muslims to the spoils of war.

so ,all the wars that were waged by the Muslims was for their mere existence and not for power or money .
it was evident that Muslims followed their 10 golden principles during wars .it was more or less like the present day Geneva convention .only difference is that Geneva convention is on the paper but Muslims carried those principles in their heart as their religion

[imrankhawaja]

I am right on the topic ,imran

really ... you did not answer again why dnt you just want to accept islam and everything here and there due to God ... my answer= answer of quran...

You have made Umar rasiallahuanu a killer ,imran .you as well as every one here wants give a apologetic view on Quran

hahahahahaha ...pervaiz bhai u are lieing infront of my face .. i did not made anybody killer... did i not say these are accounts of history...

history claim he spread islam through sword... not me...

why dnt you get rid of history ... when you making him greatest ever human being on the basis of one account ... then y reject the other accounts of history ,,, still not reasoning the faulty approach of tradition...

even in some accounts if there was next prophet it was omar ... m i right... ?

i m telling you again.. history is shameful... what i read i just share a 0.1% part of it...

just read for urself

u did not still told me about first and second fitna why it happen ? u can use history if u want lol

[Bender]

of course ,Ben .Otherwise they could not have killed millions of jews .for example , suppose , in your country ,if the government made a rule to deport all the Muslims and you are in a hide out .the authorities will never know about you until someone among your neighbor tells them about you .exactly ,this is what happened to Jews .every christian had the killer instinct for Jews those days .
leaders wanted to please their people and Church and the best way to please them is to humiliate Jews .this is just a minute outlet of their hatred .every Christians ,even today might be enjoying their triumph .even today ,Jews will know about their true colors if they impose restrictions for their pilgrimages .Christians think Jews are the better protectors of their holy places than Muslims that is why they are acting like a good friends .only Jews and Muslims are the true monotheistic religion of Abrahamic faith .Christians are the pagan version of of Abrahamic faith and they don't stand anywhere near Jews and Muslims nope ! they are the killers and even today they are doing successfully

ok peace

[imrankhawaja]

ok peace

o