Faith no more

imrankhawaja

Oh my mistake may God (SWT) guide us all to the real truth.

handshake

parvez_mushtaq

.......

After 100 years they will have same interpretation as ISIS.

their interpretation is not worse then Christian Zionist ,at least they don't want to kill two thirds of human population in order to welcome Jesus

How many examples do you need that it's the Quran that is the source of hate, intolerance and backwardness. It regresses the mind.

So ....kill them so that Jesus will came and hug and say i love you -*

You know the great Muslims of the so called Golden age were all heretics, atheist and agnostics. That's why we burned all their books.

Please reflect on what I am saying.

yet another proof for Islamic tolerance
And you say Islam was/is intolerant .You have given the proof of Islamic tolerance
Did they killed those free thinkers.

truthseeker11

Peace everyone,

I am still studying this verse and haven't formed a conclusive opinion yet. The problem I am facing is when the quran wants to describe an "apparent illusion" or "something similar" or "comparable" it uses the root "shiin-ba-ha". For example

4157 And their saying "We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, messenger of God!" And they had not killed him, nor crucified him, but SHUBBIHA/it appeared to them as if they had.

6141 And He is the One Who initiated gardens; both trellised and untrellised; and palm trees, and plants, all with different taste; and olives and pomegranates, MUTASHABIHAN/comparable and not MUTASHABIHIN/comparable.

The triliteral root ww jm dl ( &#1583 occurs 106 times as the form I verb wajada (&#1614

EVERY SINGLE OCCURRENCE is for something real not an "apparent illusion". For example

337 So her Lord accepted her a good acceptance, and made her grow into a good growth, and charged Zachariah with her. Every time Zachariah entered upon her in the temple enclosure, WAJADA/he found provisions with her.

The provisions were real not an illusion.

1265 So when they opened their baggage, WAJADU/they found their goods had been returned to them

The goods were real and not an illusion and were actually returned to them.

1877 So they ventured forth until they came to the people of a town. They requested food from its people but they refused to host them. Then WAJADA/they found a wall which was close to collapsing, so he built it.

The wall was real not an illusion and was actually collapsing.

2823 When he arrived at the watering hole of Midyan, WAJADA/he found a crowd of people watering, and WAJADA/he found two women waiting on the side.

The crowd of people was real and not an illusion, and two women waiting on the side were real and not an illusion.

So the usage of the same "WAJADA" in 1886, by using the quran as its own dictionary, can only indicate something real and cannot indicate an apparent illusion.

The quran uses very precise language.

So the question that arises is, if the setting of the sun in the spring was an "apparent illusion" and not real why did it not use a word from the root "shiin-ba-ha" instead of "wajada"? Then the matter would have been crystal clear.

Also, "point of sunset" would mean the actual place where sun is setting. It does not mean "point of apparent sunset" or "a place from where sun is appearing to set". Implying that it means "point of apparent sunset" would be lying about the verse. There is no "shiin-ba-ha" there so translating it as "appeared" is a lie.

378 And from among them is a group who twist their tongues with the Book so that you may think it is from the Book, while it is not from the Book, and they say it is from God while it is not from God, and they say about God lies while they know.

Peace

good_logic

Peace Truthseeker.

There is nothing to study. The sun does not set anywhere for "real".
Qoran makes a clear and distinct case of sun moon and earth being separate objects. None of them sets in the other!!!!!

The verse is talking "from the point of view of Dhu-Alkarnain" . We find /view the sun as setting somewhere. That is it.

Come on brother this is simple and clear. There is no issue in the verse.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

parvez_mushtaq

..................................
It is like I did, 2-3 years ago I was standing before two choices, either would I abandon Quran (and probably continue to research more on the Gospels/Injeel) or continue researching on what the heck is the problem with Quran and why the teachings are so primitive. I chose the latter, but 'Faith No More' chose the first. We are similar in the way we attack Quran in some way. I am attacking the interpreters and the interpretation of it while 'Faith No More' with less meat on his legs is attacking the entire scripture, but I am sure he mostly attacks what it says in which he does not know better, and no shame on him. I do not rebuke him for not discovering that the medieval interpreters fabricated an unrelated context on top of an otherwise innocent one. These interpreters' understanding is so established today people take it dogmatically.

Amenuel

Dont compare yourself with him ,MOF
you said you are against the interpreters of Quran but he is against the author of Quran .he is ignorant about the core message of quran
otherwise he will never record these words

Dear friends,

................................................
I read the Quran now and I see how hate filled it is and uses fear to shut down your rationality. I never noticed this before but the anti-jew sentiment is rabid. The God of the Quran is a lunatic. There isn?t a single positive Jewish story. Mohammed must have really hated the Jews and it explains Banu-Qurayza.

.............................................

did author of Quran anywhere mention that Islam is another new religion .on the other hand Quran says the author of all religions one and the same .that is the core message of Quran
one more irrelevant quote

Except you must seize and kill me 489.

........

he seems to be product of Zionist site

Rekkd

Yes because one person's interpretation represents all of us? Like any of us represent the whole of the "movement"?

He tries to twist things to look like the victim.

savage_carrot

Please read the Forum Rules

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8177.0

2] Please note that this forum is primarily dedicated to God and the study and understanding of His Scripture (The Quran). Thus, mocking/ridiculing/insulting God and/or the Quran, and/or not being able to back-up claims against the Quran with specifics may result in deletion of such posts and/or removal of topic and/or disciplinary action being taken against the offending member.

3] Respect other users of the forum. Language and/or material of vulgarity, obscenity, harassment, profanity, racist or insulting nature, whether it is direct or suggested, will NOT be tolerated. Any messages containing such language or material will be moved to the trash section or deleted, without notice and may result in disciplinary action being taken against the offending member.

8] When posting a reply to a thread, stay on topic. On occasions this may be allowed, but if there is an ongoing debate or discussion in a thread, then any post which deviates from the topic will be removed WITHOUT notice in the interest of the debate.

FaithNoMore

Yes because one person's interpretation represents all of us? Like any of us represent the whole of the "movement"?

When you don't speak or critique bullshit, then yes, one person who speaks the loudest does represent you all.

This is what happened in 80's with traditional Muslims. Islamists started to speak for them. Whenever the Islamist silenced a critic or bullied anyone who dared to behave differently, the moderates stood by silently. 30 years later an entire generation of Muslims has been lost to radical Islam. You know why because the moderates stood by silently? because the Islamist had a mandate
from the Quran. You can't critique Islamism without critiquing the Quran, so the moderates were stuck.

This has gone too far. Only truthseeker11 has had the courage speak up, and you sit there in silence. So yes closet sunnis like Imran and Parvez do speak for all of you - while Man of faith and Wakas create an apologist smoke screen for them.

And if you don't feel knowledgeable about critiquing the Quran, then go learn it. It's not rocket science. It only feels like that when you have to do mental gymnastics.
That should be a sign that it is nothing but the ramblings of a 7th century bedouin.

FaithNoMore

Please read the Forum Rules

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8177.0

2] Please note that this forum is primarily dedicated to God and the study and understanding of His Scripture (The Quran). Thus, mocking/ridiculing/insulting God and/or the Quran, and/or not being able to back-up claims against the Quran with specifics may result in deletion of such posts and/or removal of topic and/or disciplinary action being taken against the offending member.

Ah yes, forgot about your blasphemy laws. The Quran can mock and ridicule other faiths and people without any proof.
It can call Jews pigs and apes, prophet killers, deceivers worthy of wrath. But it can't take criticism itself.

Tell me how are your blasphemy laws any different to ISIS's blasphemy laws?

savage_carrot

This thread has descended into unreasonable comments geared towards inciting inflammatory reactions, namely from the OP who insists on keeping the thread going in an antagonistic manner for more of the same chaotic venting. These type of threads are not welcome on this board. Start a new thread if there is any need for actual discussion, keeping it logical and to the point without hostility and without breaching the rules. Thanks.