Gods "Arsh" - Throne

imrankhawaja

I mean, you are trying to validate the flimsy sectarian interpretation. These interpreters were just religious fanatics.

you are already failed terribly in plantey of your claims...

anyway look at above post.. and then tell me all these are also fanatics or all the errors belong to your own brain infact...

apart from this your interpreations are not only fanatics but they are magical i could not find it anywhere . u calim it was on your page it was not there. when i ask to send me perosnaly you were failed again at that occassion..

i m feeling like a secret agent is translating quran mysteriously...

imrankhawaja

6917 And the angels will be on its borders; and the Throne of your Lord will be carried, above them on that Day, by eight.

So who are the "Eight" who will carry The Throne of Our Lord above the angels ?

brother people usually confused by this most of the times even when first time i read it i did not understand that properly still i m unable to understand it... but the actual subject somehow God put me in my head. it may b wrong or may be right ...but have a look at my view...

people think the 8 angles/controllers/maliks will carry a chair like throne in which God will be sitting ... its not really like that..

first of all its a throne. which mean a dominion and power of God... or a place where the matters of things related to us settled down. and it will appear infront of us .. not God himself. becoz the power/watching/controlling of God is everywhere...

second thing ... the throne i still cant understand , due to the illusion of expanding universe phenomenon... and the part of throne named as kursi 2 255 even extends over the heavens and earth... so its really really unable to understand what throne is actually... in size shape nature

in full Quran i never see anywwhere God claim somebody saw me/my nature...
or anywhere God is claiming someday somebody will saw me /my nature...

you can only get closing understandings of things slowly and slowly... so keep thinking like that...

although i m still working on something . that will we be able someday to watch/see/understand the real nature of God or its just a first step towards progress of human race in the shape of heavens and hell ... is it something like a advance game where things will get through level of stages.. somethings are hidden from our eyes due to a reason... life hereafter also bring lot of intrests and new objectives i think so... its just a start...

LastDay3

You see You are saying that God is everywhere and that the verses in the Quran which speak about the God as the Most High
who Sits on the exalted Throne which is above the waters are just symbology for representing his power and rulership over everything.
But what if it is the opposite?

What if these verses are literal. And the fact that God is everywhere it means that he is omnipresent. He can see and hear everything.
But doesnt mean that He is not Up there.

Salaam/Peace Hansolo,

first of all, as we have already clearly witnessed (in my previous post above) in these Verses therein

====================
7- HE is the ONE Who has created the heavens and the Earth in six Days, and HIS "Throne" (="Arshuhu" =
i.e. HIS "Governing/Creative Power") became-realized (=kana) upon the Water (=i.e. HE initiated life on the Earth upon the the Water here,
in the very Beginning, as it is also clearly pointed out in these Verses, first of all, here =21/30-31);

so as to test who from among you works the best (here on the Earth, again)!

And when you say "(Thereafter), you will (also) be resurrected/awakened (in a parallel Universe, instantly) after the death" (here =16/28-29 X 16/32)
those who have rejected will say "This is but a clear Magic!"

QURAN TESTAMENT 11/7

So we should clearly see that the above Verse is essentially about the Creation of Life on this Earth, first of all, and then it immediately refers
to the Creation of Life in the Hereafter, in such a perfectly Coherent/Consistent manner above.
So this allegorical term HIS "Throne" (="Arshuhu") should rightfully be understood thus in that Perfect Context above,
and thereby the Water thereafter clearly refers to the Water (=Oceans, Seas, etc.) of this Earth again, in this Perfect Context above.

Because our Lord AL-LAH has already clearly and unmistakably taught to us here

====================
11- .........There is nothing like in the IMAGE (=kaMITHLIHI) of HIM (=AL-LAH)!

4- And there is none that could be COMPARABLE/EQUAL (=KUFUWAN) to HIM (=AL-LAH)!

QURAN TESTAMENT 42/11 = 112/4

Thereby, we have already clearly and unmistakably understood that
all of these Allegorical Terms in QURAN TESTAMENT, here

"Face of AL-LAH" (=i.e. the Absolute Seeing & Hearing & Governing Power of AL-LAH =13/22 & ......
"Hands of AL-LAH" (=i.e. the Absolute Granting & Helping Power of AL-LAH =5/64 & ......
"Eyes of AL-LAH" (=i.e. the Absolute Watching & Guarding Power of AL-LAH =20/39 & ......

"Throne of AL-LAH" (=i.e. the Absolute Executive/Creating Power of AL-LAH =11/7 & ......
"Seat of AL-LAH" (=i.e. the Absolute Executive/Commanding Power of AL-LAH =2/255 & ......

are all --in such a perfectly parallel manner, one after the other, above-- Allegorical Terms therein
--(they can Never be understood in their Literal meaning because of the Reason
clearly and unmistakably taught to us by our Lord AL-LAH in the above Verses 42/11 = 112/4,
in the very first place.)--

But in any of these Allegorical Terms above
the Individual/Personal "Presence of AL-LAH" is Not indicated therein,

because according to this Most Fundamental and Important TEACHING of QURAN TESTAMENT,
we should clearly and unmistakably see here

our Lord AL-LAH's Individual/Personal BEING is absolutely Different/Separate/Distinct above and beyond all Universe/s,
all Things whatsoever we can ever imagine above us,

as we can clearly witness it in this Verse, in the first place =70/4,
here

====================
4- All Angels and the Spirit (=Gabriel, =16/102) can ascend to HIM (=AL-LAH)
in a Day the length whereof is --(after passing beyond all limits of all Universe/s, all Things
we can ever imagine above us, first of all)--
fifty thousand years (therein).

QURAN TESTAMENT 70/4

thus our Lord AL-LAH's Individual/Personal BEING is absolutely Different/Separate/Distinct above and beyond all Universe/s,
all Things we can ever imagine above us, from the very Beginning;
and from the Eternity to the Eternity.

QURAN TESTAMENT 42/11 = 112/4 & 70/4 & 6/102 = 28/88

For this reason,

only those truthful Servants of AL-LAH who wholeheartedly, truly and strongly believe in HIM

as our One and Only GOD

WHOSE Individual/Personal BEING is absolutely Different/Separate/Distinct above and beyond all Universe/s, all Things we can
ever imagine above us,

QURAN TESTAMENT 70/4 = 42/11 = 112/1-4

and HE has never appointed no "Partners" to HIMSELF from any of HIS Servants (=i.e. Humans, Angels, Jinns, etc.),
in no way, at all,

QURAN TESTAMENT 6/163 = 17/111

and HE has never ascribed no "Portion/Share/Piece/Part" to HIMSELF from any of HIS Servants (=i.e. Humans, Angels, Jinns, etc.),
in no way, at all,

QURAN TESTAMENT 43/15 = 5/17-18 = 5/72-74

will be saved by AL-LAH, and they will attain to Eternal Salvation and Everlasting Happiness, forever.

QURAN TESTAMENT 25/68-69-70-71, 72-73-74-75-76

Remain in peace/salaam.

LastDay3

Don't we agree that we are in this controlled environment just like in a testing ground to see who is the best.
When scientist make an experiment they don't interfere until the experiment is over right ?

This can explain then why so much horror happens on this planet. Rape, Murder, Loss of health and etc.
Just look at the animal kingdom. Everything is made to consume each other. Dont you think is interesting ?

There are animals designed in a way where they HAVE to kill another animal to get energy for survival.
Dont you think this design is interesting. So to be able to prolong its days on this Earth the animal has to murder the other animal?
As the batman movies say "You die a hero or live long enough to become the villain"

Salaam/Peace Hansolo,

first of all, our Lord AL-LAH clearly and unmistakably teaches us that
"the life and social behavior & interaction of animals" and "the life and social behavior & interaction of Humans" MUST be totally different,
we should NEVER imitate the animal kingdom, in this respect, at all.

Because this is the whole purpose of "Evolutionary Creation Miracle" here

QURAN TESTAMENT 2/30 = 6/133 = 71/13-14 = 76/1

that we have thus physically/mentally/intellectually Evolved by the Immense Grace of AL-LAH unto us
and thereby now have the full capacity/understanding/ability to fight against all "animalistic instincts"
that may still be remnant in all of us,

and thus when/if we totally cleanse our selves/souls (=nafs) here from all "animalistic instincts,"
we may thus be physically/mentally/intellectually Perfect Human Servants of AL-LAH, forever.

=QURAN TESTAMENT 12/53 = 91/7-8-9 = 95/4-6 = 75/3-4 = 36/54-58

But if we do not fight against all "animalistic instincts" that may still be remnant in all of us,
and do not totally cleanse our selves/souls (=nafs) here from all such "animalistic instincts," we may have to be among
such utterly condemned Humans then, forever,
here

==========
179- We have committed to Hell --(when/if they insist on their ignorance and arrogance till the last breath of their normal life here 4/17-1--
many of the Jinns and the Humans;

(because) they have hearts with which they do not want to understand (the Word of AL-LAH),
and they have eyes with which they do not want to see (the Word of AL-LAH),
and they have ears with which they do not want to hear (the Word of AL-LAH).

(Consequently), they are like animals (=i.e. essentially living by their animalistic instincts; eating and drinking like pigs,
or beating up and raping others like monkeys, or entrapping and robbing others like serpents and jackals, etc.),
indeed, they are (thus) most Astray.

(Because) these are the ones (who choose to remain totally) Indifferent/Unaware (of the Word of AL-LAH). (=10/7-8 & 30/52-53)

QURAN TESTAMENT 7/179

And on the other hand, we should also never forget that

=================
38- And there is not a "dabbat" (i.e. =every "creature, including all animals&quot on the earth, nor a "bird" that flies with its wings,

but all of them are Congregations that are --(specifically, with regard to their biological/genetic design here)-- similar/same as you (=amthalukum).
We did not leave anything out of the Scripture; then to their LORD they will be gathered.

QURAN TESTAMENT 6/38

119- .... And the Word of your LORD has thus been issued
I will fill Hell --(when/if they insist on their ignorance and arrogance till the last breath of their normal life here 4/17-1--
with Jinns and Humans, all together!

QURAN TESTAMENT 11/119

So, thereby we may clearly understand that

--(because of their sins before coming to this World here)-- after they have to live and die in this Worldly Test (=i.e. Jungle) here
all "dabbat" i.e. =all animals (=i.e. lions, tigers, horses, mules, pigs, monkeys, serpents, jackals .................. etc. therein
and all "birds&quot will Not be requited in the Hereafter for their animalistic behaviors here --(because they did not have
intellectual/mental capacity to understand and observe the Word of AL-LAH here)--

so, all of them will thus be forgiven and gathered by our Lord AL-LAH

in Paradise, in total Serenity/Peace/Security therein, forever,

because Hell will be filled --(here in this case again now =22/72 & 85/4-10 & 4/17-18 & .......)--
only with Jinns and Humans, all together,

as clearly emphasized in the above Verses.

Remain in peace/salaam.

Man_of_Faith

we should NEVER imitate the animal kingdom, in this respect, at all.

This is something that we indeed need to reflect on very much because succumbing to Satan is easily missed by oneself.

List of points that reflect Satan in humans

Follow/imitate others
Materialism (gatherer = animalistic behavior)
Imagination (when it comes forth superstition against logic)
Go with the flow (lack of contemplation due to absorption into this word)
Self-centricsm
Violent/aggressive behavior or finding violence entertaining
Sexual preoccupation
Greed
Fear
Jealousy

All of this together makes us forget our true purpose.

Be well
Amenuel

hansolo

Long time no see Man of Faith jedi

And the true purpose is...? muscle

Man_of_Faith

Long time no see Man of Faith jedi

And the true purpose is...? muscle

The true purpose is 'to be'. Gain independence within "God" rather than a mindless slave by Being One. The only way to that is by pursuing spirituality (the Spirit seed of your Nafs in order to grow) and rejecting the bodily.

Like Shakespeare said "To be or not to be is the question". Strengthen your being, tell yourself to do be confident (amenuwa). Strive hard to be cognizant of who you are. If you grow that awareness then you will also feel your origin and not only merely believe and it only takes finding yourself. If you find yourself you will also find your origin and then you will be a part of it. That is to be reborn while you are born, the only way to escape (salvation) is to be born twice in a lifetime, and only the witted will understand what I am writing. And that is because your body is a host to a seed of another origin, but it takes cultivating the seed and soundly take care of it and not be deluded this world is something for you or that the afterlife has any resemblance to this.

There was once a wise man who said that this seed is like a mustard seed, the smallest of seeds yet it becomes the most amazing tree. One has to understand that parable in order to understand its meaning. But since I was determined to put it black on white for once in history, it refers to that the spirit if undeveloped is minuscule like almost non-existent, but if it is soundly tended then the spirit will see no boundaries. Most Nafs's are like seeds who land on the ground but never grow because they choke due to weeds like thistles and the weeds choke the meager little seed and its cultivation so that it never expands. In the parable, the bodily (what is in the world) is the weeds and other obstacles and have always been in this parable, but I tell you now. Those hamper the spirit from development and will keep the seed like the minuscule seed it is and it will fade away eventually in lack of development and because the seed is degraded in time. The same soil will host several cycles "of other plants" (the useless plants which do not more than hamper the development of the seed) during the degradation. Life itself is a parable and is clear from who takes pleasure from it all and the bodies were made for evaluation and sifting and so the final delivery is delayed so to allow everyone that will bear fruit and so does not the one whose quality is absent in the produce (extract taken from Quran - the real interpretation of).

Be well
Amenuel

Man_of_Faith

And you can learn a great deal from the Jedi in the fictitious Star Wars. They tell that you should focus on the Force (Spirit) while channeling away the external world, and it is basically what you are to do in reality. You must avoid everything negative that comes from the bodily you. You should NOT strive for

Domination
Hierarchy (because you are one with the Force (Spirit) and those unfeeling and feeling of the Force)
Recognition
Greed
Materialism
Jealousy
Passion
Egoism
Anger
Hatred
Revenge
Punishment

And you should not listen to your emotions but listen to the Force (Spirit) that flows through you. Everything of your emotions is biologically generated and must be controlled logically. Clarity of mind, your mind must not be clouded by the dark, all the emotions and the bodily impulses will lead to the dark side.

That is a philosophical analysis of the Star Wars saga. The Angels/Controllers of the world made this motion picture to be a channel of insight. Basically everything it says is accurate on how the world works and what leads to disaster. Remove the effects and entertainment with things that could be possible "by a matter of Being". The aim for a Jedi is very close to what a Man or Woman of Faith has to accomplish, tranquility of mind and its purification. This will expand the mind to endless levels.

Ya-Dal-Ya = (Jedi ) ) to touch, aid, do good, be beneficent, show power and superiority, a hand. By his agency/means.
With a willing hand, out of hand, having financial ability.
In acknowledgement of the superior power, in ready money and not in the form of deferred payment, considering it as a favour, on account of help, (payment should be made by the hand of the parties themselves without the intervention of a third party and without reluctance.
baina yadaihi - before him, in his presence hit, between his two hands.
ulill aidi - men of power (lit. gifted with hands)
suqaita fi aidihim (idiomatic expression) they repented, the idea seems to be that they hit their fingers in grief and contrition.
Handy, Might, Power, Superiority, Benefit, Possession, Favour, Generosity. The idea behind those expressions is that the (way of) use of the hand is the real source of the superiority and power. Under his authority, upper hand, arm, foreleg of a beast, handle of a tool, wing of a bird.
ma qaddamat yada - that is what thou hast deserved.

I inserted words within some of the parentheses. It is quite interesting that they are called Jedi in Star Wars and have so much in common with this Arabic word. Like with everything "God" is expressed in what we do, knowingly or unknowingly, but it is better to be independent and thus aware of one's participation and share.

Be well
Amenuel

Alper88

Yup that's how the ancient israelite's cosmology looks like..
I give the wonderfully drawn illustration below which fits perfectly with your description..

http//wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/files/2012/11/Ancient-Hebrew-view-of-universe.png

And that narrow path, labeled the "Gate of Heaven" is well guarded by Angels, the Devil commonly uses that narrow path to sneak into the heaven and ear drop the ongoing discussion in "Heavenly Conference". The angels uses the stars as missiles / projectile to drive away the Devil..

1516-18
It is We Who have set out the zodiacal signs in the heavens, and made them fair-seeming to (all) beholders; And (moreover) We have guarded them from every evil spirit accursed But any that gains a hearing by stealth, is pursued by a flaming fire, bright (to see).

376-10
We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars, and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil spirits, (So) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side, Repulsed, for they are under a perpetual penalty, Except such as snatch away something by stealth, and they are pursued by a flaming fire, of piercing brightness.

675
And we have, adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.

728-9
(Demons are speaking)'And we pried into the secrets of heaven; but we found it filled with stern guards and flaming fires. 'We used, indeed, to sit there in (hidden) stations, to (steal) a hearing; but any who listen now will find a flaming fire watching him in ambush.

Reminds me of this article
http//quran-mystery.blogspot.nl/2015/12/quran-speaks-about-firmament-of-heavens.html

And the following documentaries
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=debcXgOi0T0

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1DQSBI42Eg

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBuPiVzQLxo

imrankhawaja

132 God, Who raised the skies without any pillars that you can see

3110 He created the skies without pillars that you can see

i think ancient people who created the maps and images like this. they forget the verses like this... otherwise they will never claim things like that... confused

Cerberus

The true purpose is 'to be'. Gain independence within "God" rather than a mindless slave by Being One. The only way to that is by pursuing spirituality (the Spirit seed of your Nafs in order to grow) and rejecting the bodily.

Like Shakespeare said "To be or not to be is the question". Strengthen your being, tell yourself to do be confident (amenuwa). Strive hard to be cognizant of who you are. If you grow that awareness then you will also feel your origin and not only merely believe and it only takes finding yourself. If you find yourself you will also find your origin and then you will be a part of it. That is to be reborn while you are born, the only way to escape (salvation) is to be born twice in a lifetime, and only the witted will understand what I am writing. And that is because your body is a host to a seed of another origin, but it takes cultivating the seed and soundly take care of it and not be deluded this world is something for you or that the afterlife has any resemblance to this.

There was once a wise man who said that this seed is like a mustard seed, the smallest of seeds yet it becomes the most amazing tree. One has to understand that parable in order to understand its meaning. But since I was determined to put it black on white for once in history, it refers to that the spirit if undeveloped is minuscule like almost non-existent, but if it is soundly tended then the spirit will see no boundaries. Most Nafs's are like seeds who land on the ground but never grow because they choke due to weeds like thistles and the weeds choke the meager little seed and its cultivation so that it never expands. In the parable, the bodily (what is in the world) is the weeds and other obstacles and have always been in this parable, but I tell you now. Those hamper the spirit from development and will keep the seed like the minuscule seed it is and it will fade away eventually in lack of development and because the seed is degraded in time. The same soil will host several cycles "of other plants" (the useless plants which do not more than hamper the development of the seed) during the degradation. Life itself is a parable and is clear from who takes pleasure from it all and the bodies were made for evaluation and sifting and so the final delivery is delayed so to allow everyone that will bear fruit and so does not the one whose quality is absent in the produce (extract taken from Quran - the real interpretation of).

Be well
Amenuel

My humble understanding of the Quran says that Life is a short distraction to see who will follow the way of God... i.e Reconize the Unity of God and do good in life while putting your trust in God alone, ask forgiveness (because you might sin), repent, enjoy what you've been given in this life (even if it's a short distraction), be thankful etc...

This though doesn't seem very pretty, or "spiritual"... just bunch of to-do's...but I believe It is the way to gaining spiritual growth. Because spiritual growth isn't gained by knowledge or philosophy or reading all sort of texts or arguing over lexicons. It is gained by commitment and patience and remembrance of God.

Thus, you allow God's light in your Heart.

P.S Hansolo, if you read this, please understand that gaining spiritual growth won't happen by watching youtube videos or reading all sort of crap around the internet. At the end of the day, you still face your devils and I'm sure you do, and that is the true challenge of life. Do not fool yourself and think you can "obtain" spiritual growth the way you obtain "knowledge".

Adam_The_Warner

An English translation of the Quran - 2255 God, there is no god except He, the Living, the Sustainer. No slumber or sleep overtakes Him; to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth. Who will intercede with Him except with His permission? He knows their present and their future, and they do not have any of His knowledge except for what He wishes. His Throne encompasses all of the heavens and the earth and it is easy for Him to preserve them. He is the Most High, the Great.

Man_of_Faith

We should not enjoy what we have been given in this world. It has been given to us as a deceptive trial and the one who can abstain is strong-minded.

Be well
Amenuel

Cerberus

The water you shower with, the cold wind touching your skin, the sky, the smell of fresh air, the peacefulness of the morning and night, the safety, the sanity, the knowledge, the physical abilities, a good talk with a loved one, tasty food in a warm room...

I do enjoy these things. Many enjoyable things, if enjoyed without considering God, may lead to deception.

Though, We still enjoy what is naturally enjoyable. Always in the context of the life test.

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

832 Say "Who has made forbidden the nice things that GOD has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions?" Say "They are meant for those who believe during this worldly life, and they will be exclusive for them on the Day of Resurrection." It is such that We explain the revelations for those who know.

ALLAH knows best.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

Man_of_Faith

The water you shower with, the cold wind touching your skin, the sky, the smell of fresh air, the peacefulness of the morning and night, the safety, the sanity, the knowledge, the physical abilities, a good talk with a loved one, tasty food in a warm room...

I do enjoy these things. Many enjoyable things, if enjoyed without considering God, may lead to deception.

Though, We still enjoy what is naturally enjoyable. Always in the context of the life test.

It is just that what is natural is the deception in this world.

Man_of_Faith

Greetings and Peace, all group

832 Say "Who has made forbidden the nice things that GOD has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions?" Say "They are meant for those who believe during this worldly life, and they will be exclusive for them on the Day of Resurrection." It is such that We explain the revelations for those who know.

ALLAH knows best.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

It is not about forbidden, but it is a matter of what is recommended to do.

Cerberus

It is just that what is natural is the deception in this world.

3185 Every human being is bound to taste death but only on the Day of Resurrection will you be requited in full - whereupon he that shall be drawn away from the fire and brought into paradise will indeed have gained a triumph for the life of this world is nothing but an enjoyment of self-delusion/self-deception

One is easily bound to the wordly things. But one has to remind himself. That is the remembrance of God. Though we still enjoy what we've been given to enjoy.

Man_of_Faith

One is easily bound to the wordly things. But one has to remind himself. That is the remembrance of God. Though we still enjoy what we've been given to enjoy.

But does it not make us slaves?

Cerberus

But does it not make us slaves?

This is what I said
One is easily bound to the wordly things. But one has to remind himself. That is the remembrance of God. Though we still enjoy what we've been given to enjoy.

One is easily bound to the wordly things Temptation, Devil, Ego, Difficulty to control. Lack of gratitude. Wanting more.

But one has to remind himself That is the key to facing such states. The multiple Salat we make. Those small moments you look at something and remember God. Giving away of what you have. etc. All those moments of stepping outside of the box.
2153 O you who believe, seek help through patience and through the contact prayer, God is with the patient ones.

That is the Remembrance of God Indeed. That is how you grow spiritually. Gradually.

Though we still enjoy what we've been given to enjoy Taking in consideration all the above. That is from God. And that is all in the context of the life test.

Now which part suggests what you suggest ?