Hello all, this is my new home !
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@ jaffar in other words u have issue with the message ... or you suggest there should be no message at all...
how will you become MD if your universtiry will not testify your degree... ?
why did a doctor need a degree that is testifed by the different bodies...?
what is a different between an authroised and unathorised doctor?
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These claims of "messengerhood" is actually what puzzled me..
WHY would Mohammad, RK or anyone feels the need to claim such thing and/or asking testimony from others for such claim...
As if they're not confident enough for their own claim as such they need the acceptance or reference from others...Mohammad I'm Mohammad, a God's messenger
Me Oh ok great.. do you love your job?
Mohammad Do you believe that I am a messenger?
Me Of course Mo... you just said so yourselves.. why shouldn't I?
Mohammad You do? Really? Can you testify that I am a God messenger?
Me Hey mo.. sure... anything to make you happy.... by the way, why would you need such testimony anyway.. are you applying for the same role in another company?Peace brother,
Very well said I agree totally handshake
May Allah reward you with the best pr -
Quote from imrankhawaja on 23 Sep, 2016 1906
the concept of shahda come from the early disease what is commonly found in chirstian faith , they beleive untill there is not a seal of jesus on your back you will not be saved...Perhaps...
Yet there is no record in the bible which stated that Jesus asked anyone to testify something about him....
However there is a segment on "When Jesus met John on the banks of Jordan river".. and instead of debating who are among them is the greatest (or who should testify to whom), both of the above gentlemen exchange praises to each others.This is something that clergymen have attributed to Jesus teachings and they misrepresented them. He said the way is through the "I AM" (one's self/independent being), but the translators thought he referred to himself (as he spoke Syriac Aramaic but the Biblical Gospels are in archaic Greek). If no one ever reflected upon what he really taught he focused on you helping yourself rather than others in the first place and he said that you have to find yourself before you will find your origin/originator (father they translated it from abbu). Everyone must learn to see themselves or rather be self-aware. It has nothing to do with egoism, but it is about letting your inner seed develop fully like Jesus said about the seeds spread out and which would grow. He further enhanced it by asking "why do you focus on the splinter in your brother's eye while you have a beam of wood in your own? First remove yours and then you can better help your brother". The path is primarily a personal path and we should not interfere with how others lead it by forcing them to (religious) rules.
But simple things were mistranslated from Jesus sayings and this causes many problems.
Jesus was very impressed by John the Baptist and his spiritual progress and did praise him very much and wished him to baptize him. He was clearly affected by the news that John had been executed.
Jesus fully recognized the law of Moses, but he gave his elaboration on it, however he did not abolish a single letter from the law either. He said he fulfilled it and that he did. By fulfillment he meant to make it even better. His mission with the Injeel was to elaborate on the Law, that is basically the meaning of Nun-Jiim-Lam (A nejil). He added greater elaboration on what the teachings of the law imply. Jesus also said the Law will last through all time.
Who here recognizes the commandments? You have not forgotten about them?
Those are the core of your faith. Your spiritual development depends upon them. They are your remedy against your own body's instinctive drive as we say with modern scientific advancements of psychology and human behavior. The instincts which will drive you to
Hierarchy
Materialism
Vanity
Indulgence
Egotism
Dominate
Sexual vanity
Greed
Dubious methods
JealousyThis is what the so-called 'Ten Commandments' gives a remedy for and what Jesus elaborated upon. Understand this and you will understand what you should actually accomplish and not some vain religious doctrine which leads to nothing and the portrayal of a worldly deity in some pathetic way.
All we seek for you is to BECOME SOMEONE and not just a mindless slave. Everything is centered on you and what you will make of yourself and it is wisest to make a noble one of yourself and then you must have confidence and believe you can do this. Master the instincts instead of letting them master you, this is the beginning and then pass through separated. And remember this world is just vanity and was made to corrupt its inhabitants, and this is what the remedy of the 'Ten Commandments' were for.
Be well
Amenuel -
Man of Faith, if it is about becoming Someone. Are people like David Beckham, Brad Pitt, Kanye west, Putin are successful? I mean they ARE Individuals that's for sure. They are objects of imitation for millions of people. Thus their beings are pretty strong.
Peace
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This is something that clergymen have attributed to Jesus teachings and they misrepresented them. He said the way is through the "I AM" (one's self/independent being), but the translators thought he referred to himself (as he spoke Syriac Aramaic but the Biblical Gospels are in archaic Greek).
Were you there?
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@ jaffar in other words u have issue with the message ... or you suggest there should be no message at all...
how will you become MD if your universtiry will not testify your degree... ?
why did a doctor need a degree that is testifed by the different bodies...?
what is a different between an authroised and unathorised doctor?
It's not the main point, like I said, even a good MD will gladly let me choose another MD if I don't believe in his capability or merely because I decided to do so.. He will never curse me or condemned me to hell or sue me... because believing or not believing in something is my basic human rights.
Speaking about MD and healthcare, let's link that back to Jesus story (or legends)...
He didn't have any Med degree, yet he was known as a healer...
He BUILT SUCH REPUTATION through of course.. healing people.... and never charged any fee or asked for any health insurance..
Similar case can be found on the story (or legends) of Lao Tse..None of those gentlemen had asked anyone to testify anything about him...
Yet they earned such reputation through their own deed.Christiano Ronaldo never asked anyone to testify that he's a good football player too..
He earned such reputation through his action on football field....
He of course has his own fair share of 'hater'.... but he never cursed them because they're an unbeliever of his skill at football..Regarding "God's Revelation / Message", God is still continuing to send His message up until now...
He doesn't need any prophets / messenger to do so.. or to put it in another way, everyone or everything can be a prophet / messenger for His message.Very well said I agree totally handshake
May Allah reward you with the best prIF Mohammad (Or RK or Ghulam or Krishna or Jesus or Lao Tse or Whomever) is really a true messenger of God's message.
Then he would really care less about anybody testimony about him...
The mission objective of a messenger is to deliver the message..
The message should be the focus and not the messenger..We read about it also in the Quran, about the story of Moses and an unnamed 'wise person'... (1865)
Perhaps even Moses doesn't really know about his name..
Yet due to his anonymity nobody ever created a cult or religion around him..A leader is best when people barely know he exists
Of a good leader, it is he who talks little,
Bearing and nurturing,
Creating but not owning,
Giving without demanding,
Influencing without threatening,
When his work is done and his objective fulfilled,
The people will say, ?We did this ourselves.?
-- Lao Tse, Tao The Ching -
Good quote, Jafar.
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It's not the main point, like I said, even a good MD will gladly let me choose another MD if I don't believe in his capability or merely because I decided to do so.. He will never curse me or condemned me to hell or sue me... because believing or not believing in something is my basic human rights.
brother i asked something else you took it to hell or heaven...
i make it simple , forget about the results after surgery... if you died or get alive by successful or unsuccessful operation its your own choice of selecting wrong doctor...
my question started from doctor not from patient...
i asked are you rejecting the message of quran ? or you are suggesting there should be no need of prophet?
or there is no need of book?and i asked more things like for becoming a doctor,, why its important that he get testified from recognising bodies..?
why i need to attest my degrees for getting job?
what make me qualified as a degree holder? (marksheet, degree)
why i need a universty for degree?what i do with my degree is next step of debate either its imp or not for getting job, money..
same if you claim God does not require to send messengers and books , you need to provide something logical in your claims ..
He doesn't need any prophets / messenger to do so.. or to put it in another way, everyone or everything can be a prophet / messenger for His message.
so its you who is more knowledgeable than God to suggest what God should need to do... for sending hsi message brilliant bravo
about this of your wordings look what is written in quran...
prophet did not say anybody to testify or glorify him for redemption or reward... the message is pretty clear.. it we who consider who was he... and the discussion split to the sects agendas..
Say, "I am but a human being like you, being inspired that your god is One god. So whoever looks forward to meeting his Lord, then let him do good works and not set up any partner in the service of his Lord."
Say "I am no different from the other messengers, nor do I know what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is inspired to me. I am no more than a clear warner"
And they say "If only a sign was sent down to him from His Lord." Say "Indeed, the unseen is for God, so wait, and I will wait with you."
The Day God will gather the messengers and He will say "What was the response you received?"; they said "We have no knowledge, You are the Knower of all the unseen."
his duty was to convey the message... thats it...
or if you believe God willl send signs to every body personally here is another verse...
7452 Does each one of them want to receive the scripture personally?
before taking the car into fourth gear i started a discussion from first starting gear... when you answer your logics then we will also proceed to next level of discussion...
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Were you there?
rotfl no he get revelation inspired to him in dreams , he is also in line with insightful person... when somebody asked him about muhammad he give a reply like this ...
One was an impostor, that is what I know, whether he lived for sure or was a myth I do not know. However I received information that there is a Muhammad, but I do not know when he lived.
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Peace brother,
Very well said I agree totally handshake
May Allah reward you with the best prpeace brother mmkhan, i was not about to quote you but i feel in this way we all learn from eachother .. lot of things..
i think what i understand from your ideas... i may be wrong , but apparently you are not sure about ( the reciver of scripture)
but you accept scripture , your questions are regarding messenger.. not the message itself
but on the other hand mr jaffar not only denied the messenger but message as well...
i would like if you both discuss and resolve the issue first , i mean first part of the claim..
you only agree with him if he also accept scripture as a words of God... so here what i see is a clear confusion,
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Were you there?
It is obvious without being there. Jesus was quoted while saying words of Aramaic and the Greek translators were kind enough not to translate certain words he uttered, so it is safe to say the man spoke Syriac Aramaic. Someone likely had written his utterances down too in their original wordings too. Another point is that the translation itself includes errors in translation following typical mistakes one can make in translating a Semitic language into another family of languages.
Parts of the Biblical Gospels are mistranslated and it makes for certain problems. One is that he is claimed to have said "I am the way", but he was saying back then that "the way is through the own being (the I AM)". Most references allegedly to himself is in actually to each person's self. He wanted to say that everything is about finding yourself in order to find your origin, so looking for the divine is done within yourself for there is where you will find "God".
Persians say Khoda about "God" still to this day and the word means the self. If you would like to say "myself" you say "khodam". About it you can ask my wife who is from Iran or someone who research on etymology back in Iran, even if he has to be silent in fear of what the authorities would do if he says "God is in the self". That is blasphemous in Islam yet the origin of the remnant teaching.
Similar to the Persians in ancient Semitic linguistic use "God" was referred to as allah because the word means "the who like". is simply "The Who" from the third person suffix used, but people made it into something else despite the simple language. Allah is very similar to the Persian word that way. It is from when Moses learned that "God" is "Who Is", i.e. he was told "I am who I am". From that time the unity of being has been called Alehoim or Allahem with the revamped grammar of Arabic. And it is about having "God" with/in you and it being shown by your way of being.
But that you have probably seen me write before but rejected it.
Be well
Amenuel -
It is obvious without being there. Jesus was quoted while saying words of Aramaic and the Greek translators were kind enough not to translate certain words he uttered, so it is safe to say the man spoke Syriac Aramaic.
So if I understand you correctly you saw some translations with Aramaic words in it and you decided that Jesus spoke Aramaic and that the translators were Greeks and that they misunderstood him?
And these conclusions are obvious to you?One is that he is claimed to have said "I am the way", but he was saying back then that "the way is through the own being (the I AM)". Most references allegedly to himself is in actually to each person's self. He wanted to say that everything is about finding yourself in order to find your origin, so looking for the divine is done within yourself for there is where you will find "God".
RED How do you know this? Were you Jesus in your previous life?
Similar to the Persians in ancient Semitic linguistic use "God" was referred to as allah because the word means "the who like". is simply "The Who" from the third person suffix used, but people made it into something else despite the simple language.
RED Its better to say my definition of Allah is "the who like", because it's ONLY your definition.
Allah is very similar to the Persian word that way. It is from when Moses learned that "God" is "Who Is", i.e. he was told "I am who I am". From that time the unity of being has been called Alehoim or Allahem with the revamped grammar of Arabic. And it is about having "God" with/in you and it being shown by your way of being.
But that you have probably seen me write before but rejected it.
Be well
AmenuelRED Of course, because in my opinion your whole theory does simply make no sense.
Besides that you just use old lexicons and old scriptures. Very similar to those who use hadiths to make their point.
So imo your whole theory is at best just another baseless hadith based on baseless hadiths. -
I don't mind if you guys go off-topic on my topic. But this discussion is kinda too long to read.
Can anyone tell me in short what this discussion is about ?
haha every discussion go on that way... you will slowly slowly get used to it...
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peace brother mmkhan, i was not about to quote you but i feel in this way we all learn from eachother .. lot of things..
i think what i understand from your ideas... i may be wrong , but apparently you are not sure about ( the reciver of scripture)
but you accept scripture , your questions are regarding messenger.. not the message itself
but on the other hand mr jaffar not only denied the messenger but message as well...
i would like if you both discuss and resolve the issue first , i mean first part of the claim..
you only agree with him if he also accept scripture as a words of God... so here what i see is a clear confusion,Peace brother Imran,
It's not like that bro.
I agree and accept what I feel good and right without looking at who said that even though if he/she is a Hindu, Christian, or belongs to any religion.And I am sorry to say that I disagree with the red highlighted part above. Hopefully Jafar will clarify this himself.
May Allah bless you bro pr
mmKhan -
Peace brother Imran,
It's not like that bro.
I agree and accept what I feel good and right without looking at who said that even though if he/she is a Hindu, Christian, or belongs to any religion.same here.. thats what logic says us to do...
And I am sorry to say that I disagree with the red highlighted part above. Hopefully Jafar will clarify this himself.
May Allah bless you bro pr
mmKhanactually i m also unaware about his feelings , but i feel in that way... may b i m wrong, he(mr jaffar) only know what inside his heart...
God bless you too bro..
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You're not sorry.
yay