Hello all, this is my new home !
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Man of Faith, if it is about becoming Someone. Are people like David Beckham, Brad Pitt, Kanye west, Putin are successful? I mean they ARE Individuals that's for sure. They are objects of imitation for millions of people. Thus their beings are pretty strong.
Peace
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This is something that clergymen have attributed to Jesus teachings and they misrepresented them. He said the way is through the "I AM" (one's self/independent being), but the translators thought he referred to himself (as he spoke Syriac Aramaic but the Biblical Gospels are in archaic Greek).
Were you there?
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@ jaffar in other words u have issue with the message ... or you suggest there should be no message at all...
how will you become MD if your universtiry will not testify your degree... ?
why did a doctor need a degree that is testifed by the different bodies...?
what is a different between an authroised and unathorised doctor?
It's not the main point, like I said, even a good MD will gladly let me choose another MD if I don't believe in his capability or merely because I decided to do so.. He will never curse me or condemned me to hell or sue me... because believing or not believing in something is my basic human rights.
Speaking about MD and healthcare, let's link that back to Jesus story (or legends)...
He didn't have any Med degree, yet he was known as a healer...
He BUILT SUCH REPUTATION through of course.. healing people.... and never charged any fee or asked for any health insurance..
Similar case can be found on the story (or legends) of Lao Tse..None of those gentlemen had asked anyone to testify anything about him...
Yet they earned such reputation through their own deed.Christiano Ronaldo never asked anyone to testify that he's a good football player too..
He earned such reputation through his action on football field....
He of course has his own fair share of 'hater'.... but he never cursed them because they're an unbeliever of his skill at football..Regarding "God's Revelation / Message", God is still continuing to send His message up until now...
He doesn't need any prophets / messenger to do so.. or to put it in another way, everyone or everything can be a prophet / messenger for His message.Very well said I agree totally handshake
May Allah reward you with the best prIF Mohammad (Or RK or Ghulam or Krishna or Jesus or Lao Tse or Whomever) is really a true messenger of God's message.
Then he would really care less about anybody testimony about him...
The mission objective of a messenger is to deliver the message..
The message should be the focus and not the messenger..We read about it also in the Quran, about the story of Moses and an unnamed 'wise person'... (1865)
Perhaps even Moses doesn't really know about his name..
Yet due to his anonymity nobody ever created a cult or religion around him..A leader is best when people barely know he exists
Of a good leader, it is he who talks little,
Bearing and nurturing,
Creating but not owning,
Giving without demanding,
Influencing without threatening,
When his work is done and his objective fulfilled,
The people will say, ?We did this ourselves.?
-- Lao Tse, Tao The Ching -
Good quote, Jafar.
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It's not the main point, like I said, even a good MD will gladly let me choose another MD if I don't believe in his capability or merely because I decided to do so.. He will never curse me or condemned me to hell or sue me... because believing or not believing in something is my basic human rights.
brother i asked something else you took it to hell or heaven...
i make it simple , forget about the results after surgery... if you died or get alive by successful or unsuccessful operation its your own choice of selecting wrong doctor...
my question started from doctor not from patient...
i asked are you rejecting the message of quran ? or you are suggesting there should be no need of prophet?
or there is no need of book?and i asked more things like for becoming a doctor,, why its important that he get testified from recognising bodies..?
why i need to attest my degrees for getting job?
what make me qualified as a degree holder? (marksheet, degree)
why i need a universty for degree?what i do with my degree is next step of debate either its imp or not for getting job, money..
same if you claim God does not require to send messengers and books , you need to provide something logical in your claims ..
He doesn't need any prophets / messenger to do so.. or to put it in another way, everyone or everything can be a prophet / messenger for His message.
so its you who is more knowledgeable than God to suggest what God should need to do... for sending hsi message brilliant bravo
about this of your wordings look what is written in quran...
prophet did not say anybody to testify or glorify him for redemption or reward... the message is pretty clear.. it we who consider who was he... and the discussion split to the sects agendas..
Say, "I am but a human being like you, being inspired that your god is One god. So whoever looks forward to meeting his Lord, then let him do good works and not set up any partner in the service of his Lord."
Say "I am no different from the other messengers, nor do I know what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is inspired to me. I am no more than a clear warner"
And they say "If only a sign was sent down to him from His Lord." Say "Indeed, the unseen is for God, so wait, and I will wait with you."
The Day God will gather the messengers and He will say "What was the response you received?"; they said "We have no knowledge, You are the Knower of all the unseen."
his duty was to convey the message... thats it...
or if you believe God willl send signs to every body personally here is another verse...
7452 Does each one of them want to receive the scripture personally?
before taking the car into fourth gear i started a discussion from first starting gear... when you answer your logics then we will also proceed to next level of discussion...
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Were you there?
rotfl no he get revelation inspired to him in dreams , he is also in line with insightful person... when somebody asked him about muhammad he give a reply like this ...
One was an impostor, that is what I know, whether he lived for sure or was a myth I do not know. However I received information that there is a Muhammad, but I do not know when he lived.
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Peace brother,
Very well said I agree totally handshake
May Allah reward you with the best prpeace brother mmkhan, i was not about to quote you but i feel in this way we all learn from eachother .. lot of things..
i think what i understand from your ideas... i may be wrong , but apparently you are not sure about ( the reciver of scripture)
but you accept scripture , your questions are regarding messenger.. not the message itself
but on the other hand mr jaffar not only denied the messenger but message as well...
i would like if you both discuss and resolve the issue first , i mean first part of the claim..
you only agree with him if he also accept scripture as a words of God... so here what i see is a clear confusion,
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Were you there?
It is obvious without being there. Jesus was quoted while saying words of Aramaic and the Greek translators were kind enough not to translate certain words he uttered, so it is safe to say the man spoke Syriac Aramaic. Someone likely had written his utterances down too in their original wordings too. Another point is that the translation itself includes errors in translation following typical mistakes one can make in translating a Semitic language into another family of languages.
Parts of the Biblical Gospels are mistranslated and it makes for certain problems. One is that he is claimed to have said "I am the way", but he was saying back then that "the way is through the own being (the I AM)". Most references allegedly to himself is in actually to each person's self. He wanted to say that everything is about finding yourself in order to find your origin, so looking for the divine is done within yourself for there is where you will find "God".
Persians say Khoda about "God" still to this day and the word means the self. If you would like to say "myself" you say "khodam". About it you can ask my wife who is from Iran or someone who research on etymology back in Iran, even if he has to be silent in fear of what the authorities would do if he says "God is in the self". That is blasphemous in Islam yet the origin of the remnant teaching.
Similar to the Persians in ancient Semitic linguistic use "God" was referred to as allah because the word means "the who like". is simply "The Who" from the third person suffix used, but people made it into something else despite the simple language. Allah is very similar to the Persian word that way. It is from when Moses learned that "God" is "Who Is", i.e. he was told "I am who I am". From that time the unity of being has been called Alehoim or Allahem with the revamped grammar of Arabic. And it is about having "God" with/in you and it being shown by your way of being.
But that you have probably seen me write before but rejected it.
Be well
Amenuel -
It is obvious without being there. Jesus was quoted while saying words of Aramaic and the Greek translators were kind enough not to translate certain words he uttered, so it is safe to say the man spoke Syriac Aramaic.
So if I understand you correctly you saw some translations with Aramaic words in it and you decided that Jesus spoke Aramaic and that the translators were Greeks and that they misunderstood him?
And these conclusions are obvious to you?One is that he is claimed to have said "I am the way", but he was saying back then that "the way is through the own being (the I AM)". Most references allegedly to himself is in actually to each person's self. He wanted to say that everything is about finding yourself in order to find your origin, so looking for the divine is done within yourself for there is where you will find "God".
RED How do you know this? Were you Jesus in your previous life?
Similar to the Persians in ancient Semitic linguistic use "God" was referred to as allah because the word means "the who like". is simply "The Who" from the third person suffix used, but people made it into something else despite the simple language.
RED Its better to say my definition of Allah is "the who like", because it's ONLY your definition.
Allah is very similar to the Persian word that way. It is from when Moses learned that "God" is "Who Is", i.e. he was told "I am who I am". From that time the unity of being has been called Alehoim or Allahem with the revamped grammar of Arabic. And it is about having "God" with/in you and it being shown by your way of being.
But that you have probably seen me write before but rejected it.
Be well
AmenuelRED Of course, because in my opinion your whole theory does simply make no sense.
Besides that you just use old lexicons and old scriptures. Very similar to those who use hadiths to make their point.
So imo your whole theory is at best just another baseless hadith based on baseless hadiths. -
I don't mind if you guys go off-topic on my topic. But this discussion is kinda too long to read.
Can anyone tell me in short what this discussion is about ?
haha every discussion go on that way... you will slowly slowly get used to it...
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peace brother mmkhan, i was not about to quote you but i feel in this way we all learn from eachother .. lot of things..
i think what i understand from your ideas... i may be wrong , but apparently you are not sure about ( the reciver of scripture)
but you accept scripture , your questions are regarding messenger.. not the message itself
but on the other hand mr jaffar not only denied the messenger but message as well...
i would like if you both discuss and resolve the issue first , i mean first part of the claim..
you only agree with him if he also accept scripture as a words of God... so here what i see is a clear confusion,Peace brother Imran,
It's not like that bro.
I agree and accept what I feel good and right without looking at who said that even though if he/she is a Hindu, Christian, or belongs to any religion.And I am sorry to say that I disagree with the red highlighted part above. Hopefully Jafar will clarify this himself.
May Allah bless you bro pr
mmKhan -
Peace brother Imran,
It's not like that bro.
I agree and accept what I feel good and right without looking at who said that even though if he/she is a Hindu, Christian, or belongs to any religion.same here.. thats what logic says us to do...
And I am sorry to say that I disagree with the red highlighted part above. Hopefully Jafar will clarify this himself.
May Allah bless you bro pr
mmKhanactually i m also unaware about his feelings , but i feel in that way... may b i m wrong, he(mr jaffar) only know what inside his heart...
God bless you too bro..
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You're not sorry.
yay
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I thought about Jafar's response and this is what it looks like in real life.
Result under savage_carrot username
https//2.bp.blogspot.com/-fIlJZbRGiOs/V-xiowAEJKI/AAAAAAAAAXE/KMrfFhXywNYMG4nMygXsM_oRKrqwF14twCLcB/s1600/savage_carrot.pngHmm, who is she to lock the thread?
Is she a hacker?
She must answer who she is. I am too busy to do research to figure out her identity.
How to get the thread unlocked? Can Layth do it? But again, who is he? He says the same under his username. -
@ reel read reply 37 of the same thread and then see the forum rules , specially rule number 3 then may be you get to know what she did was a good decision...
May God bless her as i see this world still got some truthful people specially our admins who are doing their duties with honesty ...who decide things by justice and reasons...
and if you have some issues with admins i think its better to talk with them in person or PM...
Peace
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@ reel read reply 37 of the same thread and then see the forum rules , specially rule number 3 then may be you get to know what she did was a good decision...
May God bless her as i see this world still got some truthful people specially our admins who are doing their duties with honesty ...who decide things by justice and reasons...
and if you have some issues with admins i think its better to talk with them in person or PM...
Peace
My post wasn't about the thread, but identity of the person when it is not given.