Salat = Education-Process

[Layth]

Salam,

I thought I would share this post to explain why I have shifted the translation of Salat to "Education-Process" whereas previously it was "contact-prayer".

The problem with Salat was to find a "unified meaning" that fits all occurrences of the word and its verbs - a task which has been elusive over the years. Contact-prayer as a translation worked in some verses, and failed in others (like when God Yussali on the prophet, or the birds do "salat" 2441).

The reason I have settled on Education-Process is because the Salat as I read from the Quran is a way of learning information that can then be acted on. For example

2945 Recite what is inspired to you of the Book and carry out the Salat, for the Salat prohibits immorality and vice; but certainly the remembrance of God is the greatest. God knows everything you do.

Here we read that the Salat prohibits immorality and vice, yet, we all know people who pray that cheat, lie, and steal - obviously the prayer aspect did not help. However, when we think of Salat as "knowing the law" then we can see that this knowledge "education-process" will stop people from immorality and vice - an attribute that God gives himself directly

1690 God orders justice and goodness and that you shall help your relatives, and He prohibits immorality and vice and transgression. He warns you that you may remember.

Also, "education" was the only word whose verb could use in all related verses (God educates the prophet, the prophet educates the believers, the birds know their education, Shuayb is instructed by his education, etc.).

We are to carry out the Salat to "learn the law" - a process that then helps us avoid sin and transgression, makes us stronger believers, and better human beings.

I hope the above clarification helps.

[Someone]

Dear Layth,

Salam

Thank you for your efforts to better understand the scripture, and to maintain this forum as a place for learning for all these years.

Your translation of salat as an education process fits well with the context, especially if correlated with zakat which means to implement improvement (after been educated ).

Unfortunately, our arab world is lacking these basic processes, that were replaced by meaningless religious practices, and thus resulting in the catastrophic state of ignorance where we are struggling since centuries.

Even worse, most people are satisfied with the current state of things, and are reluctant to question thier ways even if they are suffering from what they are doing, since they think that they should suffer in order to get blessing from their god.

May the god have mercy on us, and prevent us from the harm of the ignorants among us.

[hawk99]

Peace Layth so we are to make ablution at specific times then get educated?

confused

[imrankhawaja]

Peace Layth so we are to make ablution at specific times then get educated?

confused

brother everytime u need to get education you need to meet the rules of education...

did you not always keep pen in pocket while studying in school /college..

btw . your question is logical ,, but same like education courses.. there are also different forms of education what we need to apply in our life.. one of the application starts from abulution.. when we have to contact our creator..

contact education process... isnt it.. muscle

[Layth]

Salam,

Peace Layth so we are to make ablution at specific times then get educated?

Yes. You would prepare for God's education-process by following the specific commands given (timing, tone, sate of mind, etc.). As for ablution, it is a requirement to be purified to have access to the Quran

5677 It is an honorable Qur'an.
5678 In a protected Book.
5679 None can grasp it except those purified.

And, just to confirm that water is a factor for "purification", we need only look at 811

811 Sleep overcame you to give you tranquility from Him; and He sent down to you water from the sky to purify you with it and cause the affliction of the devil to leave you; and so that He may strengthen your hearts and set firm your feet.

[reel]

I agree with Layth's conclusion.

Interestingly, not even sects solved the salat problem for which they have
Hanafi method of prayer.
Maliki method of prayer.
Shaf?i method of prayer.
Hanbali method of prayer.
Ibadi method of prayer.
Thahiri method of prayer.
Ja`fari method of prayer
Zaydi method of prayer.
Salafi method of prayer.

Steps of 5 different schools

http//www.oneummah.net/islam/salat.html

What's common among the people after whom the prayers are titled? None is from Prophet's time.

[Comrox]

Thank you Layth for updating the text and sharing your reasoning for doing so. )

Would you happen to have any idea when the print versions will reflect the current translation?

[siwto]

Thank you Layth for updating the text and sharing your reasoning for doing so. )

Would you happen to have any idea when the print versions will reflect the current translation?

Here we read that the Salat prohibits immorality and vice, yet, we all know people who pray that cheat, lie, and steal - obviously the prayer aspect did not help. However, when we think of Salat as "knowing the law" then we can see that this knowledge "education-process" will stop people from immorality and vice - an attribute that God gives himself directly

Salam Layth

Thank you for your continuous effort here to help us understand more the world oh God;
My questions are

1. do you think that the education/knowledge will let people stop from wrong doing on earth, to consider it/them as the significance of the SALAT matter.

2. How then we should comprehend SALAT ALFAJR, or SALAT AL ICHAA.

Peace
Siwto

[Zulf]

1. do you think that the education/knowledge will let people stop from wrong doing on earth, to consider it/them as the significance of the SALAT matter.

Nothing can FORCE an end to wrong doings. That's not how this world and life are designed anyway. Everything will happen voluntarily.

Education and knowledge, when forced upon people, cannot achieve anything, but that's not the kind of learning Salat would signify anyway. Education and learning when used for positive progress, can work miracles.

Education and learning should have certain characteristics to be good

• The purpose should be for improvement of self and others through increased understanding of life (self, others and the world).
• An open yet critical mind must be employed, to avoid superstition, rumors, falsehood and wishful thinking.
• Humbleness/humility needs to be part of the learning frame of mind. We don't know everything, and we will never know everything and hence we will never reach final truths. We can however improve, more and more.
• It is important to also learn about ones own mind, which is the interface between us and the world. We need to learn about human mental traps, so that we can keep our learning as pure and straight as possible. We need to learn about the role of emotions and how they affect our thinking and perception, so that we can avoid as much bias as possible.
• We need to go at it at regular intervals, because we cannot be consciously learning/pondering at maximum force all the time. We will have to relax in between more concentrated efforts of learning.
• We should realize that we may learn from ANY source, so we should not be arrogant, biased or stiff, so that we avoid losing out on valuable lessons and valuable sources. We may learn from people "below us". This is again about humbleness.

We MUST adopt a frame of mind that makes us continuous and unbiased learnes. Otherwise we stagnate and stop growing. Improvements in life, in the world, can only come from learning lessons of life. The important thing is to be mentally flexible, peaceful and open-minded.

As far as worldly things go, the Japanese have reaped great success with their Kaizen and continuous improvement. We should all adopt a personal way of Kaizen in our lives, for the purpose of improving our own character and increase the understanding of things in life. Too many bad things, like for example racism and hostility, are due to ignorance. Ignorance can have very bad effects on even good and well intended people.

Peace and cheers

[A_Submitter]

Here we read that the Salat prohibits immorality and vice, yet, we all know people who pray that cheat, lie, and steal - obviously the prayer aspect did not help. However, when we think of Salat as "knowing the law" then we can see that this knowledge "education-process" will stop people from immorality and vice - an attribute that God gives himself directly

Salam Layth

Thank you for your continuous effort here to help us understand more the world oh God;
My questions are

1. do you think that the education/knowledge will let people stop from wrong doing on earth, to consider it/them as the significance of the SALAT matter.

2. How then we should comprehend SALAT ALFAJR, or SALAT AL ICHAA.

Peace
Siwto

Salam,

I have been wondering this too, a few days ago I understood the usage of Education-Process, but now I'm confused &

I think Education-Process includes prayer among other things, because during prayer you recite Quran and carry out the education (for example; God educates us to kneel and prostrate (prayer) and to reverence Him (things we can say in prayer), and to seek His help (through prayer), so in a sense you have done the Education-Process (or part of it) when you prayed.

Though, I would wait for mr Layth to clarify what exactly we are to do during Education-Process.

Salam

[Adam_The_Warner]

Salam,

I thought I would share this post to explain why I have shifted the translation of Salat to "Education-Process" whereas previously it was "contact-prayer".

The problem with Salat was to find a "unified meaning" that fits all occurrences of the word and its verbs - a task which has been elusive over the years. Contact-prayer as a translation worked in some verses, and failed in others (like when God Yussali on the prophet, or the birds do "salat" 2441).

The reason I have settled on Education-Process is because the Salat as I read from the Quran is a way of learning information that can then be acted on. For example

2945 Recite what is inspired to you of the Book and carry out the Salat, for the Salat prohibits immorality and vice; but certainly the remembrance of God is the greatest. God knows everything you do.

Here we read that the Salat prohibits immorality and vice, yet, we all know people who pray that cheat, lie, and steal - obviously the prayer aspect did not help. However, when we think of Salat as "knowing the law" then we can see that this knowledge "education-process" will stop people from immorality and vice - an attribute that God gives himself directly

1690 God orders justice and goodness and that you shall help your relatives, and He prohibits immorality and vice and transgression. He warns you that you may remember.

Also, "education" was the only word whose verb could use in all related verses (God educates the prophet, the prophet educates the believers, the birds know their education, Shuayb is instructed by his education, etc.).

We are to carry out the Salat to "learn the law" - a process that then helps us avoid sin and transgression, makes us stronger believers, and better human beings.

I hope the above clarification helps.

An English translation of the Quran - 546 And We sent in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, authenticating what was present with him of the Torah. And We gave him the Gospel, in it is a guidance and a light, and authenticating what was present with him of the Torah, and a guidance and a lesson for the righteous.

An English translation of the Quran - 566 And if they had upheld the Torah and the Gospel, and what was sent down to them from their Lord, they would have been rewarded from above them and from beneath their feet. From among them is a pious nation, but most of them only do evil.

An English translation of the Quran - 568 Say "O people of the Book, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Gospel and what was sent down to you from your Lord." And for many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and rejection. So do not feel sorry for the rejecting people.

An English translation of the Gospel - Matthew 65 ?And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

9 ?This, then, is how you should pray

??Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.?

An English translation of the Quran - 3184 If they deny you, then messengers before you were also denied; they came with the proofs and the scriptures and the Book of Enlightenment.

An English translation of the Quran - 6116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

[Layth]

Salam,

Thank you Layth for updating the text and sharing your reasoning for doing so.

Would you happen to have any idea when the print versions will reflect the current translation?

I am nearly 99% done with the updates on the electronic version. I think in 1-2 weeks if there are no major issues that have been overlooked, it can goto print (which takes another 1-2 weeks).

Thank you for your continuous effort here to help us understand more the world oh God;
My questions are

1. do you think that the education/knowledge will let people stop from wrong doing on earth, to consider it/them as the significance of the SALAT matter.

2. How then we should comprehend SALAT ALFAJR, or SALAT AL ICHAA.

Yes, it will stop those who apply the education-process themselves from wrong doing (the Musaleen/Educated), and in-turn, it is the responsibility of those who have learned to spread justice and equity to those around them as well as their families (20132, 2241).

Salat AlFajr and Isha are the learning-process where the Quran is recited and listened to, its words contemplated and understood.

I think Education-Process includes prayer among other things, because during prayer you recite Quran and carry out the education (for example; God educates us to kneel and prostrate (prayer) and to reverence Him (things we can say in prayer), and to seek His help (through prayer), so in a sense you have done the Education-Process (or part of it) when you prayed.

Prayer can be done anytime/anywhere with no form or sequence (like the people who prayed out of fear from the storm 3132). Salat is a very rigid and specific vehicle with rules, times, process, voice tone, etc.. Truly an "Education" Process.

[A_Submitter]

Salam,

Thank you.

Where will the printed version be available, like on amazon.com?

Salam

[Layth]

Salam,

I just wanted to add a small footnote to this topic which might help in providing some context to the functionality of Salat (education-process).

In the days before the industrial revolution, a village/town at most would have 5-6 written copies of the Quran and probably 10 or so people who had the Book memorized. Most people therefore don't have access to the words/laws in their homes and when they woke up, before heading off to the farms or market, they would attend an open recitation of the Quran where it's laws could be heard and contemplated. They would then go about their business, thinking of what they had heard that morning, and, around noon there is an opportunity to attend the Salat again, and also in evening before they turned in, they could attend the Salat one last time to listen to some more words/laws that they could think about when they went home and before they slept.

This is how the laws and stories were transmitted and learned by the generations.

[HP_TECH]

Salam,

I just wanted to add a small footnote to this topic which might help in providing some context to the functionality of Salat (education-process).

In the days before the industrial revolution, a village/town at most would have 5-6 written copies of the Quran and probably 10 or so people who had the Book memorized. Most people therefore don't have access to the words/laws in their homes and when they woke up, before heading off to the farms or market, they would attend an open recitation of the Quran where it's laws could be heard and contemplated. They would then go about their business, thinking of what they had heard that morning, and, around noon there is an opportunity to attend the Salat again, and also in evening before they turned in, they could attend the Salat one last time to listen to some more words/laws that they could think about when they went home and before they slept.

This is how the laws and stories were transmitted and learned by the generations.

Salaam Layth,

It's not that I completely disagree with you, I mean after all those who know understand that salat involves recitation of Quran or listening to the recitation of Quran, the which is akin to a lecture. Although we can observe that salat is a time that Allah teaches us, explains to us His Words, can YOU truly translate salat as education process for all its occurrences in your translation?
Does the root sad lam waw denote education?
I think that's the real question you need to address before making any annotations that may affect the understanding of potential amateur readers.

The component of education, learning is not the only component of salat, Salat is an important channel for spiritual and emotional connection among other things.

I strongly believe that if you simply translate it as education process you are neglecting and undermining the many other purposes it serves

Again, you should not deviate from the root meaning either.

HOWEVER, you could make a case that education's definition entails an enlightening experience of sorts which may well encompass the other purposes, meanings of salat, but the connotation of the word education would not immediately allow the average reader to infer that.

Peace

[truthseeker11]

Salaam all,

The component of education, learning is not the only component of salat, Salat is an important channel for spiritual and emotional connection among other things.

I strongly believe that if you simply translate it as education process you are neglecting and undermining the many other purposes it serves

Again, you should not deviate from the root meaning either.

I completely agree with HP_TECH about this. bravo

In my understanding, education-process is a completely incorrect meaning of salat because it does not encompass all the aspects of salat such as praise and glorification of ALLAH, when salat is established by a human for ALLAH. Education-process indicates a one way process whereas salat is a dynamic two way process involving close connection and two way intimate communication with ALLAH (1187), such as praise and glorification with humility, and prayer, in addition to the recitation/oration and education.

17110 Say "Call on God or call on the Almighty; by whichever you call on, to Him are the best names." And do not be too loud in your salat, nor too quiet; but seek a path in between.
17111 And say "Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness." And magnify Him greatly.

Salat is used in opposition to "following desires", therefore one component would also be "not following desires"

1959 Then, generations came after them who lost the salat, and followed desires. They will find their consequences.

COMMUNION or CLOSE CONNECTION would be a much better translation, but this has been ignored for years despite repeated discussions. brickwall

peace Layth,

What happened to "communion"?

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608921.msg396386#msg396386

COMMUNION the sharing or exchanging of intimate thoughts and feelings, especially when the exchange is on a mental or spiritual level.

https//en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/communion

Education-process also does not make any sense for salat of birds (2441).

Salaam

[Layth]

Salam,

I hear what you are both saying, however, I am not able to find a better "word that fits all".

Only Al-Salat (proper noun) has been translated as "Education-Process", while its derivatives (Salat, Salawat, Yusali, Salai, etc.) have all been translated to "educate/education/educating". You can see the verses and how they now flow in the online translation.

Communion/Link/Prayer/etc. all work in some verses, but fail in others - forcing an illogical change of the word to suit the verse (lok at any existing translation for evidence of such difficulty).

The birds "know their education" (the word is salat), while Shuaib is accused of "being ordered by his education" (salatak), and God "educates" the Prophet (yusali), while the Prophet "educates" the believers and they "educate" him (yusaloon).

In no verse does anyone "Yusali" upon God (so the flow moves in one direction only).

[good_logic]

Peace Layth.

Would leaving the words- Salat,salawat,yussalli...etc in english in the verses and put the meaning in brackets next to them be a better alternative?

Then the reader can see what the original Arabic word is .It can also highlight the issues this has with different translations.

You can also ignore and leave it as it is. It is your decision and your work.
Thanks brother.
Peace.

[HP_TECH]

Peace Layth,

I humbly ask you to consider this two point proposal/deal.

1. Good logic took the words out of my mouth. Have you considered leaving all the words in which you discern difficulty translating in Arabic? Perhaps it can be done in the future and with more words than just salat, like Daraba in 434 and so forth. It would highly encourage the reader to truly study.

2. Please bring forth all the occurrences in Quran in which you perceive that prayer or an extension of the root meaning does not fit as a translation. The reason I say this is because I earnestly see no problem with the way it is now and if I do not I am sure there are many more who feel the same. I think it would be only fair that you bring up the verses in question forward for analysis and discussion. After all, I noticed how you always acknowledge all the members of this forum as contributors, then let us contribute in the most honest way by consulting with us and discussing at least primarily if there even truly is an issue at all.

Below I simply cite Ayaahs to demonstrate how one of the examples you have claimed is illogical is in fact, the opposite very logical and matches the oft-repeating parts. 3923 1587

I disagree that salat in the conventional understanding raises an issue in the example of the birds.
The birds truly know their prayer. They have their own communications and language we just do not understand them. Even the Hoopoe glorified Allah!

This is explained very clearly in Al-Quran.
All creatures are in communities like us

638 And not any animal in the earth and not a bird (that) flies with its wings - but (are) communities like you. We have not neglected in the Book anything, then to their Lord they will be gathered.

1744 Glorify Him the seven heavens and the earth and whatever (is) in them. And (there is) not any thing except glorifies His Praise, but not you understand their glorification. Indeed, He is Ever-Forbearing, Oft-Forgiving."

2179 And We gave understanding of it (to) Sulaiman, and (to) each We gave judgment and knowledge. And We subjected with Dawud the mountains (to) glorify Our praises and the birds. And We were the Doers.

2218 Do not you see that Allah - prostrates to Him whoever (is) in the heavens and whoever (is) in the earth, and the sun and the moon and the stars and the mountains, and the trees and the moving creatures and many of the people? But many - (is) justly due on him the punishment. And whoever Allah humiliates then not for him any bestower of honor. Indeed, Allah does what He wills
-the first word in teal is yasjudu while the second is dawabu. Clearly birds which are included among the moving creatures prostrate/submit to Allah

-verse in question 2441 Do not you see that Allah - glorify Him whoever (is) in the heavens and the earth and the birds (with) wings outspread? Each one verily knows its prayer and its glorification. And Allah (is) All-Knower of what they do.
-It is obvious to me that the birds' soaring (and perhaps gliding as well) which is relying upon rising air to increase altitude is perhaps one of their way of glorification. They humbly submit/prostrate and rely on the air/wind truthfully ALLAH to hold them up, they are not flapping and exerting force they are peacefully submitting to the Will of the Most Gracious. In fact

6719 Do not they see the birds above them spreading (their wings) and folding? Not holds them except the Most Gracious. Indeed, He (is) of every thing All-Seer.

-Hoopoe speaking 2725-26 That not they prostrate to Allah, the One Who brings forth the hidden in the heavens and the earth and knows what you conceal and what you declare, Allah (there is) no god but He, (the) Lord (of) the Throne the Great."
-Ayah 26 is an obvious glorification/praise/exalting

3410 And certainly, We gave Dawood from Us Bounty. "O mountains! Repeat praises with him, and the birds." And We made pliable for him iron,

3819 And the birds assembled, all with him repeatedly turning.
-perhaps Dawood sang praises as the birds also turned with him by chirping as they do every day morning and evening (Btw Do you hear the birds loud chirping right before sunrise and before sunset?)

Brother, know that as per 1744, 2218 and 2441 EVERYTHING glorifies, magnifies, exalts, prostrates to The Most Gracious.

The above verses are abundantly sufficient evidence to negate the claim that salat in its conventional meaning does not fit.

Since it is clear you were mistaken about this example brother, how many more could you have mistakenly altered?

Finally, I just have one last remaining question, what is your exact definition of education, in the unifying meaning you want to impose in your translation?
Why are you seeking for a unifying term or definition. In my education, I do not recall language being so rigid. The same word may have slightly different meaning depending upon context and that is okay, language is fluid. I do not see the problem with salat meaning prayer in one verse and blessings in the next as long as these meaning are true to the root definitions and context.

I urge you to please consider at least discussing each occurrence you deem troublesome and that is for your benefit, because the burden and responsibility of presenting Allah's Words and preserving the original meaning as it was delivered falls upon you, since you took upon yourself to translate it. So do not take it lightly and rush glibly into making changes but lend your ear into consultation with the righteous among your peers.

4238 And those who respond to their Lord and establish prayer and their affairs (are conducted by) consultation among them, and from what We have provided them they spend,

[Layth]

Salam,

Would leaving the words- Salat,salawat,yussalli...etc in english in the verses and put the meaning in brackets next to them be a better alternative?

Then the reader can see what the original Arabic word is .It can also highlight the issues this has with different translations.

The option of leaving the word "as is" was considered, but it was abandoned because it defeats the purpose of a "translation". The only words that have been left untranslated are proper names.