Homosexuality LGBTQI and the deen
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Peace Abdul Hadi.
I disagree with you,when you say,quote
And yet, there are provisions for what is "beyond this" in 424. Homosexual relationships fall neatly into this category....
With that kind of reasoning ,one would also say 423 has not prohibited marriage to brother/uncles...etc Hence a homosexual can marry his brother/uncle....
Qoran does not instruct any "same sex" marriage,full stop.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
A man's body is not designed for another man's body and a woman's body is not designed for aother woman's body. It is in the design.
Be well
Amenuel -
Greetings and Peace, all group
Peace Abdul Hadi.
I disagree with you,when you say,quote
And yet, there are provisions for what is "beyond this" in 424. Homosexual relationships fall neatly into this category....
With that kind of reasoning ,one would also say 423 has not prohibited marriage to brother/uncles...etc Hence a homosexual can marry his brother/uncle....
Qoran does not instruct any "same sex" marriage,full stop.
GOD bless you.
Peace.If homosexual relationships are not beyond what is listed in 422-24, where is it located? It is either there or it is not there, and it is not there; therefore it is what is beyond what is listed. It is a binary decision, and no great leap of logic is required. Incestuous homosexual marriages is a slippery slope argument (a logical fallacy)--and has it ever been an issue anyway?
It is demonstrably false that something has to be in AQ to be permitted. Better take music, dancing, etc out of the life of any that feel that way. In fact, typing on a computer is downright suspicious too!
By falling under the "...it is permitted for you to seek beyond this category..." in 424, same sex marriages are permitted, even if not expressly mentioned. Nowhere are they prohibited in AQ. If a same sex couple wanted to be married, anyone preventing them would be oppressing them AND promoting vice.
All are entitled to their own best understanding--and the consequences of their actions.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Greetings and Peace, all group
A man's body is not designed for another man's body and a woman's body is not designed for aother woman's body. It is in the design.
Be well
AmenuelIn terms of reproduction, you are correct. In terms of accommodation, this is not technically correct--the best type of correct! There are few if any things that homosexual couples do that heterosexual couples do not. Keeping things clinical and not too graphic, kissing, cunnilingus, anilingus, fellatio, anal sex (including pegging), mutual masturbation, frottage, BDSM, toys, etc are some possibilities even before considering the implications of body modification/surgery. There is nothing new under the sun.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Greetings and Peace, all group
In terms of reproduction, you are correct. In terms of accommodation, this is not technically correct--the best type of correct! There are few if any things that homosexual couples do that heterosexual couples do not. Keeping things clinical and not too graphic, kissing, cunnilingus, anilingus, fellatio, anal sex (including pegging), mutual masturbation, frottage, BDSM, toys, etc are some possibilities even before considering the implications of body modification/surgery. There is nothing new under the sun.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
Are you homosexual?
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It is demonstrably false that something has to be in AQ to be permitted. Better take music, dancing, etc out of the life of any that feel that way. In fact, typing on a computer is downright suspicious too!
you can sing with you brother /sister /uncle /wife
you can dance with your brother sister/uncle /wife (infront of everybody)
you can use computer with your brother/sister/uncle/wifecan you also do sex with your uncle /brother /sister /wife...? only exception you have is with your wife .. and even with your wife you cannot do it openly like dancing singing and typing...
now come to to the basic part
you can sing/dance/type computer with your friend and there is nobody who will say you anything ...
if you do sex with your friend , how would his father /brother or everybody else feel?
will they stop you guys for doing it?your examples are showing the stage of ultimate weakness of your claim ... very poor kinda example i have ever seen...
peace
god bless you towards right path -
It is demonstrably false that something has to be in AQ to be permitted. Better take music, dancing, etc out of the life of any that feel that way. In fact, typing on a computer is downright suspicious too!
Nay Abdul-Hadi, Quran is a book of guidance, dance, music and typing on a computer
are not part of guidance.Are you homosexual?
Irrelevant and off topic.
It's interesting to note that God ( ) not once condemns homosexuality explicitly,
True
there are different human beings so we should not forbid if somebody have a nature of thief, rapist , killer, or whatever... becoz God created them different...
Peace imrankhawaja, the thief, rapist and killer, are all clear prohibitions from Allah.
peace
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Peace imrankhawaja, the thief, rapist and killer, are all clear prohibitions from Allah.
peace
yes brother , same like the clear prohibition of what nation of lot was doing ... which cause them azab from God...
what else is more clear ...
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brother hawk this special offtopic thingie for you...
actually i m a thief can somebody prove me logically what is the disadvantage in it for my self.. ?
or can some body prove it wrong logically for me... how its wrong/unbenificent for me?i asked this once before on some arguments most of the members did not understand it at the first instant but take your time .. think about my question and let me know... just think we are dealing here without any religious approach... put holy books at the side at the moment
so can somebody prove rape/ theft/ killing is bad for me logically?
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Greetings and Peace, all group
you can sing with you brother /sister /uncle /wife
you can dance with your brother sister/uncle /wife (infront of everybody)
you can use computer with your brother/sister/uncle/wifecan you also do sex with your uncle /brother /sister /wife...? only exception you have is with your wife .. and even with your wife you cannot do it openly like dancing singing and typing...
now come to to the basic part
you can sing/dance/type computer with your friend and there is nobody who will say you anything ...
if you do sex with your friend , how would his father /brother or everybody else feel?
will they stop you guys for doing it?your examples are showing the stage of ultimate weakness of your claim ... very poor kinda example i have ever seen...
peace
god bless you towards right pathIf the logic and evidences presented seem to weigh heavier on one side of an issue than another, it may be that way because it is true.
Are you saying that a thing is allowed only if expressly mentioned in matters dealing with sex, but in all other cases a thing is allowed if not disallowed? rotfl Apply the same standard to all things. Why the emphasis on sex, and who told you to do this?A person can sing with a friend, dance with a friend, use a computer with a friend, and marry a friend. And once married, sexual relations are okay with that friend. Since homosexual acts can't produce offspring, homosexual incest between consenting adults is a (pardon the pun) nonissue.
How others might feel is unimportant when it comes to the deen. If two consenting adults want to form a permanent bond, any haters can step aside and hate--they aren't part of the relationship anyway. Life isn't a popularity contest, and following what the majority think is not necessarily a great plan.
6116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of GOD; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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A man's body is not designed for another man's body and a woman's body is not designed for aother woman's body. It is in the design.
Be well
AmenuelIt is also in the design that some people are born gay.
Being/Rab/Is Who Is (or whatever you call The One who creates) doesn't make mistakes.brother hawk this special offtopic thingie for you...
actually i m a thief can somebody prove me logically what is the disadvantage in it for my self.. ?
or can some body prove it wrong logically for me... how its wrong/unbenificent for me?i asked this once before on some arguments most of the members did not understand it at the first instant but take your time .. think about my question and let me know... just think we are dealing here without any religious approach... put holy books at the side at the moment
so can somebody prove rape/ theft/ killing is bad for me logically?
I really don't understand your link between gays and murderers/thieves/rapists/etc.
- No one is born a thief/murderer/rapist, being gay is not a choice
- Killing/raping/stealing/etc disadvantages others, being gay does not disadvantage others
What exactly is the crime for a born gay person that we have to judge him/her?
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peace,
Bender, it is a fact no-one is born "gay" (or "heterosexual" for that matter). They have done multiple studies on genetically identical twins, one of whom is homosexual and the other heterosexual.
The latest science (afaik) considers it a combination of nature/genes AND nurture/environment.
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actually i m a thief can somebody prove me logically what is the
disadvantage in it for my self.. ? or can some body prove it wrong logically for me...
how its wrong/unbenificent for me?so can somebody prove rape/ theft/ killing
is bad for me logically?too easy, Maybe ok for you but for society not cool. hmm
p.s. Islam imbues personal growth which includes societal behavior that is
best for all. yes... put holy books at the side at the moment
Nope nope
police
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peace,
Bender, it is a fact no-one is born "gay" (or "heterosexual" for that matter).
for the most part I agree with that. I have always pointed out the those labels, hetero homo are just that, labels to put people into boxes. No one is boxable, in the sme way that no one is predestined philantropist or usurper...Although for different people it may be easier to become this or that.
On the othe hand there are indeed people who physiollogically are explainably attracted to same sex through hormonal or organic configuration.
It ha become a dogma that homo are born, that, as I say, may be true for a few, but I do know and I have seen it personally that people can turn "homo" or "hethero". Psychology has a lot to do with that and early and very early infancy experiences also exlain many things. When we get into that of course, we may find that in fact some people even if it is not inborn cannot avoid not being this or that, but that does not happen because it is innate, but because life experiences may have conditionned them to the point that they cannot escape it, and the only way to cling to emotional balance is to make do with what one has and has had and not what one chose if one were at point zero and we are never at point zero.
For instance many women turn lesbians, not because they are born, but because they have given up trying to make a loyal an real partnership with a male and still cling to the ideal of pertnership.
I am tired of hearing the typical "when I was a child I liked to play with dolls" from the mouth of male homos... I was a girl and I did not like to play with dolls, I hated them, it seems since the time I tried to see what they had inside and found they were empty and that, I was told, was the first time I had a doll in my hands.
Anybody can become a homo if pushed hard enough. Some do not need to be pushed, just morbo will do it.
At fault many times is not the person who opts for homo but the society which forces roles into persons which in fact cripple those persons, ll under the pretext of feminity or masculinity.
Ironically, many of those who decry homosexuality are also the ones who push decidedly to it by insisting on "feminity" and " "masculinity" dogmas like "women are like this and that" and "men are like this or that" or a man is man and so many social disciplining along sex lines.
Salaam
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peace,
Bender, it is a fact no-one is born "gay" (or "heterosexual" for that matter). They have done multiple studies on genetically identical twins, one of whom is homosexual and the other heterosexual.
The latest science (afaik) considers it a combination of nature/genes AND nurture/environment.
Red Does this not imply that it is inborn?
There are tens of theories and there is no real consensus yet in the scientific world.What I know is that people do not choose what kind of sexual preference they have (I am not talking about the "experimental people" so there must be something in the body/mind/soul/whatever that triggers this preference.
Blue I don't believe this has anything to do with the origin. I think that nurture/environment can work as a stimulator or katalysator for something that is already there.
Anybody can become a homo if pushed hard enough. Some do not need to be pushed, just morbo will do it.
I can't speak for every hetero but I know for sure that there is nothing in this world that can push me to become a homosexual
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Not now, may be when you are older and beyond the more experimental age wherever that age ends, and like we all do agree there are people more prone than others to everything. People more set in their ways, wrong or right than others, will be less likely to change to nything else, but on the other hand sex is in the mind, attraction is in the mind and there is a lot that can be done to anybody's mind.
Salaam
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If homosexual acts are allowed Abdul Hadi, then can you explain what the verses below mean and why God chose "the two men who commit it from among you" instead of like previous verse "tohse of your women who commit lewdness"?
415
And those of your women who commit lewdness, you shall bring
four witnesses over them from among you; if they bear witness,
then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates
their lives, or God makes for them a way out.
416
And the two men who commit it from among you, you shall
trouble them. If they repent and reform, then leave them alone.
God is Redeemer, Merciful.Then can you also explain why in the story of Lot, we are told the men approach the men instead of women (clearly this is relationship and not rape as God forbids approaching a woman sexually if not married)
It's VERY clear that God isn't saying rape women instead of men with verses below, but He's saying about men having relationship with other men instead of women. You are clearly astray to promote homosexual acts!
26165 ?Do you approach the males of the worlds??
26166 ?And you leave what your Lord has created for you of mates? You
are an intrusive people!?
26167 They said ?If you do not cease O Lot, you will be among those
driven out.?
26168 He said ?I am in severe opposition to your acts!? -
Greetings and Peace, all group
If homosexual acts are allowed Abdul Hadi, then can you explain what the verses below mean and why God chose "the two men who commit it from among you" instead of like previous verse "tohse of your women who commit lewdness"?
415
And those of your women who commit lewdness, you shall bring
four witnesses over them from among you; if they bear witness,
then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates
their lives, or God makes for them a way out.
416
And the two men who commit it from among you, you shall
trouble them. If they repent and reform, then leave them alone.
God is Redeemer, Merciful.Then can you also explain why in the story of Lot, we are told the men approach the men instead of women (clearly this is relationship and not rape as God forbids approaching a woman sexually if not married)
It's VERY clear that God isn't saying rape women instead of men with verses below, but He's saying about men having relationship with other men instead of women. You are clearly astray to promote homosexual acts!
26165 ?Do you approach the males of the worlds??
26166 ?And you leave what your Lord has created for you of mates? You
are an intrusive people!?
26167 They said ?If you do not cease O Lot, you will be among those
driven out.?
26168 He said ?I am in severe opposition to your acts!?Regarding 415-16...
If a person violates a marriage (adultery) in order to pursue sex outside the marriage with a man or a woman, then they are wrong. The Qur'an is complete, and notes that whether with the same sex or a different sex, adultery is wrong. If the adultery can be proven with witnesses, the adultery is also a crime. That's the simple explanation. Consider what can and can't, ISA, be reformed.26165 talks about approaching people, and the context is a lustful approach. People aren't approaching each other to extend greetings or shake hands here! ) It isn't right for a man to approach a woman or a man lustfully.
26166 talks about leaving spouses (adultery).
While the word homosexual is never used in the Qur'an, the word translated as lewdness/immorality is used--usually for adultery.
http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=fH$#(4153)
I don't promote sexual acts of any type--that's private business between two consenting spouses...and most people don't seem to need my help anyway! I will state that I find no evidence that homosexual acts are forbidden between consenting married-to-each-other adults.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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I will state that I find no evidence that homosexual acts are forbidden between consenting married-to-each-other adults.
hahahahahahahaha.....
i find no evidence that sex with camel with the help of ladder is not forbidden in case if you slip and get your bone break from height than its a different matter... so do it on sand of desert for precautionary measures...
but dnt look other camels with the eyes of lust becoz its called cheating ... so stay with just one camel and you can not sacrifice it to get the halal meat hahahaha rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl
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too easy, Maybe ok for you but for society not cool. hmm
haha look its not that easy ...
as expected you fail to understand ...yeh its bad for society who cares as long it(stealing) will give me benefit ... how its bad for me can you prove it.... ?
i think you will again get confuse in understanding the question here is a link in which some members get confused too once so have a look on it...
it will save your and mine time...
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607830.msg386833#msg386833
police voodoo not in a mood to see police lol
