Homosexuality LGBTQI and the deen
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Salam peace
peace
Imran I will use your post to expound my point of view, I know you understand peace
i already did understand it..
Of course He has hail
hmm then its wrong to say his creation is defected...
Homosexuals rather do sabar with intolerance...
yeh same like other criminals do sabar when other people are not agree with their wrongdoings..
sometimes they have to do sabar in jails/prisons tooWhat has this to do with homosexuality?
They are BORN gay.
no body is born as gay..
male or female .. i already send you something in my previous post ..Therefore being gay won't send you to hell
yeh but it will make your life hell and hereafter too lol
Unless being gay is a sin, like being born black or stupid or pretty or poor. How do they dare and be born like that? >(
everybody born as a child then he learns right and wrong then he act right and wrong then he get reward and punish according to the act he did right and wrong... very simple...
defect and fahish act/doing/lust is not a similar thing
What is immoral? Inmoral for me is whatever does not take part or opposes the maintenance of the balance in God's creation. So, for me it is inmoral not to recicle, but being gay is perfectly ok, and even more being sincere with your ownself. Sue me for that if you want.
yeh if somebody sincearly want to steal becoz he dnt like doing work hard so its must be permissible isnt it?
Do you have any idea how much I have hurt my family when I told them I believe in God and the Quran? Actually they don't talk to me anymore and pray to Jesus Christ to me to come back to the right path...
hmm i hope the parents of athiests will feel the same ...
but does it really matter who is christian who is athiest who is muslim..
Of course she is hurting people. That her husband is not aware does not mean she is not hurting him and betraying him and risking everything for sex.
becoz its not her fault , she like to be around with lot of people so she listen what her heart say who cares about what God say when she dnt beleive in God ...
Bold Who is the victim of homosexuality?
who is the victim of doing sex with animal.. killing him is allowed so by default having a sex with him is also allowed ?
Last week we unloaed a truck coming from North Europe. 10 tonnes of aid for the homeless families. They were 2 guys driving for a week that truck until Greece and noone could help unloading because there were not enough volunteers available, so we made the job ourselves. I can't even write properly because my arms are in pain. It took us hours to unload and then more hours to put an order in the stuff. They were not paid, the truck is theirs, they paid the fuel to come here, they paid the ferry fees their own and all they got back a coffee I made them because they sat for half and hour and then get back in the truck to go back to North Europe because they work on Monday! They are gay and they are together 20 years. The most discreet and proper couple I have seen in years.
But God is going to destroy those evil people guided by their lust and inmorality.
But if you sit on your couch with a wife and say you are a believer, you are granted Paradise.giveup
hmm they are doing good job..
i also know my two friends who work hard and send most of their money in charities ...
both are athiest by faith
i know they are very good human beings they must not be put in hell ... hmmbut what i can do rules are rules for everybody...
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i have a question of a catagory of bisexual ?
how would the wife of a person who is bisexual will feel if she watching her husband is having a sex with same gender infront of her eyes..?
and both males take their turn , will she toss a coin for them & for first turn?
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Salam,
Don't worry, I can try help you understand.
God didn't make homosexuals defective. As brother Imran said, God perfected everything.
Check these verses, especially the bold;
415 And those of your women who commit lewdness, you shall bring
four witnesses over them from among you; if they bear witness,
then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates
their lives, or God makes for them a way out.
416 And the two men who commit it from among you, you shall
trouble them. If they repent and reform, then leave them alone.
God is Redeemer, Merciful.You said defective, while it's well-established a defect most likely is an illness. But look at the verse; how can God tell us to trouble them until they reform? Can a person who's sick in genetic level reform? No, so it means homosexuality has nothing to do with genetics.
Where does the problem lie?
Our worst enemy! Satan. His whispers, over and over and over again.
Salam
Thank you so much for answering my call to try to understand and answer, and I mean it and i appreciate, but, brother , I still dont see punishment for homosexualitu in that verse anywhere. I only see condemnation of adultery and promiscuity
How can God tell us to trouble them until they repent if they can't change their nature?
Maybe because the verse is not talking ablut homosexuality but about adultery?Why hasn't got the Quran a word for homosexuality? You have for thief, for adulterer, for murderer...
Btw I was being sarcastic with the "defective" adjective, i thought it was obvious.
Anyway, that is my point, and I dont expect everybody to share my point so I will leave the topic...
May God guide us all to the truth and best peace
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i have a question of a catagory of bisexual ?
how would the wife of a person who is bisexual will feel if she watching her husband is having a sex with same gender infront of her eyes..?
and both males take their turn , will she toss a coin for them & for first turn?
How would the wife of ANY adulterer feel? That you are talking about is adultery not homosexuality
Having sex in front of her?
Excuse me, do hetero couples have sex in front of others?
So the point i wanted to make is that i think that homosexuals are born homosexual while you dont. That leads to different oppinions.
About charities and all the other my point was to say that I dont think God even care about homosexuality at all! If you do good you do good no matter whom you sleep with /love/chose like a true partner in life. And personally I will never judge that, may God keep me away of judging anyone
May God guide us all to the truth and best peace
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I don't see the Quran espousing your erroneous opinion hmm
Did the author forget to speak of such an act ?
Being prejudiced can affect the sight.
i have a question of a catagory of bisexual ?
how would the wife of a person who is bisexual will feel if she watching her husband is having a sex with same gender infront of her eyes..?
and both males take their turn , will she toss a coin for them & for first turn?
I have a heterosexual related question for you.
How will you feel when you catch your heterosexual wife having sex with another man in front of your eyes?
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Agreed (assuming by "sight" you meant 'judgment'!
Specifically when the prejudiced party has neither scientific, nor scriptural basis to stand upon.May I ask where does your God encourage homosexuality ?
My God is also your God.
You mean where in the quran? -
My God is also your God.
Not necessarily !
My worldview has it that God does not promote immorality.
You mean where in the quran?
As I said before, I don't see the Quran espousing your belief. But please do enlighten my ignorance.
Whenever you feel like it
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Thank you so much for answering my call to try to understand and answer, and I mean it and i appreciate, but, brother , I still dont see punishment for homosexualitu in that verse anywhere. I only see condemnation of adultery and promiscuity
How can God tell us to trouble them until they repent if they can't change their nature?
Maybe because the verse is not talking ablut homosexuality but about adultery?Why hasn't got the Quran a word for homosexuality? You have for thief, for adulterer, for murderer...
Btw I was being sarcastic with the "defective" adjective, i thought it was obvious.
Anyway, that is my point, and I dont expect everybody to share my point so I will leave the topic...
May God guide us all to the truth and best peace
Salam,
it's right there. I'll try to explain more precisely, God-willing, others will understand.
415 And those of your women who commit lewdness, you shall bring
four witnesses over them from among you; if they bear witness,
then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates
their lives, or God makes for them a way out.416 And the two men who commit it from among you, you shall
trouble them. If they repent and reform, then leave them alone.
God is Redeemer, Merciful.So in the two verses it's regarding lewdness. "Women who commit lewdness" so we know it's an act and not only talking about sexual desire etc. but acting upon it.
We know that lewdness can be many things; among it we can include homosexual acts. But which kind of lewdness are the verses about? In 415 we are only told women, not any numbers etc.Let's continue to next verse 416.
416 And the two men who commit it from among you, you shall
trouble them. If they repent and reform, then leave them alone.
God is Redeemer, Merciful.So it becomes more clear in the next verse which lewdness these verses are about.
- "And" means it's a continuation of verse 415, so it's still same subject.
- The strongest proof it's about homosexuality is that it says "the two men", instead of "the men" like previous verse when it said "the women". In which way can two men commit lewdness? Homosexuality.
- "It" meaning lewdness.
- Reform. You might disagree on this one, but someone who's an homosexual needs to reform, while adulterers need to stop.
To wrap it up, it becomes VERY clear from verse 416 (the two men instead of the men) that these verses are regarding those who commit homosexual acts.
THE TWO MEN
Salam
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Not necessarily !
For sure He is, my God is God of everything.
My worldview has it that God does not promote immorality.
Mine too.
As I said before, I don't see the Quran espousing your belief. But please do enlighten my ignorance.
Whenever you feel like it
Like I said to Imran, you and I probably understand the quran differently, so it's actually useless to bring in the quran.
But I like to know your opinion about the next 2 verses (the red parts), I also like to see how Imran, Rekkd and A Submitter read those verses
2221
2432
btw I understand those verses totally different from the popular view, but I have a feeling that some of you will have some trouble to make this fit.
For me the next couple of verses are enough to understand that I have nothing to say in His decisions, He knows better than me.
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Like I said to Imran, you and I probably understand the quran differently, so
Howcome ?!
it's actually useless to bring in the quran.
Useless said he )
But I like to know your opinion about the next 2 verses (the red parts), I also like to see how Imran, Rekkd and A Submitter read those verses
2221
2432
btw I understand those verses totally different from the popular view, but I have a feeling that some of you will have some trouble to make this fit.
For me the next couple of verses are enough to understand that I have nothing to say in His decisions, He knows better than me.
None of these passages address the issue in question, bender ! nope
Well.... unless you -deliberately- mistranslate tempt
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Howcome ?!
We are different people
Useless said he
Yes useless in such discussion.
None of these passages address the issue in question, bender ! nope
Well.... unless you -deliberately- mistranslate tempt
I told you I had a feeling that you would have some trouble with these verses.
And this is one of the reasons I think bringing in the quran is useless in such discussions.The question was not how I mistranslate them, I know how I misunderstand those verses, I was more interested in your non-mistranslated opinion.
Let's see if the others also have some trouble in translating the red parts. -
416 And the two men
Yes, you are right, submitter.
" and the two (masc dual) who commit it AMONG YOU "
Quran here is speaking to believing MEN (in specific).
Which is why 'YOUR WOMENfolk' got mentioned aforetime.Peace -- the above is FALSE! TWO MEN is written exactly thus...
2282 ... so if not being dual rajulayni/menfolk two ...
1676... menfolk two one of them dumb ...
1832 and strikes/shows for them similitude of menfolk two
2815 ... so found therein menfolk two415 and the ones who (feminine pl.) commit al-fishata/the immorality from nisakum/womenfolk yours...
416 wa-alladhni/and the two (i.e. any two any sex; mf; ff; mm) who ... -
Peace -- the above is FALSE! TWO MEN is written exactly thus...
2282 ... so if not being dual rajulayni/menfolk two ...
1676... menfolk two one of them dumb ...
1832 and strikes/shows for them similitude of menfolk two
2815 ... so found therein menfolk two415 and the ones who (feminine pl.) commit al-fishata/the immorality from nisakum/womenfolk yours...
416 wa-alladhni/and the two (i.e. any two any sex; mf; ff; mm) who ...(alladhni) - the dual form of (alladi) - is linguistically used in reference to a masculine dual noun.
Nevertheless, the author of the Quran is addressing MEN, as far as context is concerned.
" and the two (masc dual) who commit it AMONG YOU
Quran here is speaking to believing MEN in specific
Which is why 'YOUR WOMENfolk' got mentioned aforetime.And those who commit 'fahichah' AMONG YOUR WOMEN
All-knowing indeed.
salam
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Peace -- the above is FALSE! TWO MEN is written exactly thus...
2282 ... so if not being dual rajulayni/menfolk two ...
1676... menfolk two one of them dumb ...
1832 and strikes/shows for them similitude of menfolk two
2815 ... so found therein menfolk two415 and the ones who (feminine pl.) commit al-fishata/the immorality from nisakum/womenfolk yours...
416 wa-alladhni/and the two (i.e. any two any sex; mf; ff; mm) who ...Thank you so much! They are "two" people who could be 2 men or a man and a woman. That is why i dont seee homosexuality here... Because if we see homosexuality here then going to 235 Adam is indeed with a Steve rotfl
And why do we apply the later dual to the plural before changing it? I am not well versed in Arabic but first time I see something like this
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You are so lucky, boys, the Quran is all addressed to you. Why did not God send a Quran for women ? '(
The Quran is an inspired memorandum sent for Adamites en masse. It does address women.
However, in this case, it is addressing men in specific. The same goes in context of war, etc...It's not a sign of superiority, but responsibility.
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(alladhni) - the dual form of (alladi) - is linguistically used in reference to a masculine dual noun.
Nevertheless, the author of the Quran is addressing MEN, as far as context is concerned.
No.
23 alladhna/the ones (pl. any sex)
416 wa-alladhni/and the two (any two; any sex)
2191 wa-allat/and the one (any female)
4617 and the one (anyone; any sex) said to parents dual said person uff!Again if applicable TWO MEN would be written exactly thus...
2282 ... so if not being dual rajulayni/menfolk two farajulun/so man wa-im'ra-atni/and women two
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Again )
Two different parties getting two different penalties for committing the same criminal act
And those (fem.) who commit 'fahichah' AMONG YOUR WOMEN, penalty X as follows...
And the two (masc.) who commit IT AMONG YOU , penalty Y as follows...
Hope this helps.