The Quran is NOT sufficient
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Salaam People,
I was having a face to face debate with one of the more distinguished/prominent people of the Pittsburgh Sunni community.
I actually used to look up to this guy and he was like a father figure to me as well. There was a time when you could say that I was one of the more distinguishable people here as well and a lot of that has to do with his influence on me when I was a sunni.
Well, if you all remember last month Layth had made the announcement that he is willing to help people with QT and TNR for those who wish to establish GOD Alone Study Centers. Needles to say, I have been trying to reach out and share this message with these people here from the very beginning of my GOD Alone/Quran Alone journey. We have been shunned by everybody in this city who claims to be a muslim. We live a very sheltered and isolated life and other than GOD being on our side, we are basically alone here.
Anyway, I've decided to approach the people here who are well respected by others and considered knowledgable and worth listening to. I've tried that with a number of the Imams here only for them to verbally repeat what GOD has said in The Quran..."We found our ancestors and leaders following this way and so we follow it." Sure, they tried to debate the hadith and sunnah nonsense, but once I was able to point out to them the fallacy of that doctrine and they had nothing left to go to, they leaned on the old scholars and imams argument.
Well, I decided to approach my former mentor and this conversation was no different. I was very disappointed since I always thought that he was honest enough and balanced enough to reconsider something if properly pointed out to him. Well he didn't like the direction the conversation was going and he too went to the old respected scholars and sheiks spiel. I asked him was GOD not suffcient for His servants (3936) and he said absolutely nothing he just gave me this blank stare. Then I asked him is Quran not enough for him as a source of guidance, and he flat out told me NO! At that point, I knew it was pointless and I finally gave it up.
After what my wife and I have been through the past year and a half with these people here, we've decided that enough's enough. Of course there will always be this kind of idolworshippers no matter where you go, but we are looking to leave Pittsburgh and going somewhere where we will not be the only GOD Alone/Quran Alone people in the city.....even if it means almost starting over from scratch.
That's the main part of the conversation that keeps popping into my head, he verbally, commandingly and assertively told me NO The Book of GOD is NOT sufficient for him for guidance. What makes it all the more worse is how he and alot of people here condemed my wife for taking off the hijab, meanwhile they were covering up a scandal going on at one of the Mosques here where the Amir was having an affair with a young girl here, behind his wifes back. But because of what he's able to do for them socially, economically and politically, they cover it up and keep him from having to face the consequences for his actions.
One last thing, my former mentor's niece also condemed my wife for taking off the hijab and she has a child out of wedlock....as a so-called muslimah. And yet, she has a very prominent position at the Mosque I used to go to but they dismissed my wife from her position there because she refused to wear the hijab. Talk about hypocrisy!!
Salaam Y'all.
GOD Alone/Quran Alone,
Damon. -
One last thing, my former mentor's niece also condemed my wife for taking off the hijab and she has a child out of wedlock....as a so-called muslimah. And yet, she has a very prominent position at the Mosque I used to go to but they dismissed my wife from her position there because she refused to wear the hijab. Talk about hypocrisy!!
Good thing they did. Only good muslims should hold such prominent positions so he/she can be a good example to the muslim society
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Anyway, I've decided to approach the people here who are well respected by others and considered knowledgable and worth listening to. I've tried that with a number of the Imams here only for them to verbally repeat what GOD has said in The Quran..."We found our ancestors and leaders following this way and so we follow it." Sure, they tried to debate the hadith and sunnah nonsense, but once I was able to point out to them the fallacy of that doctrine and they had nothing left to go to, they leaned on the old scholars and imams argument.
This is funny...about what 'fallacy' are you talking about? The fallacy of the billion scholars, taba'in, taba taba'in, sahaba etc.? Or the fallacy of your sect which never appeared in human history until now?
Further more, you really think your a good debater and have some 'useful' arguments, but even a child could refute you.
In short, God is sufficient for us muslims. And God ordered us to follow the prophet (peace be upon him). You propbably didnt had the ability to understand correctly what he was saying.
ps. I know its hard when you dont have any supporters for your sect. Better luck next time.
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Peace be upon you Damon,
Yes, it is very real. But remember,beyond all of that, the God is instructing us to keep our PEACE. Don't let them take you out of it, or Ansar here on this forum take you out of it.
I don't know if moving is the answer, but you do what you deem as best.
I can tell you that it is the same here in Philly. I can assume that wherever there are SECTS, it will be the same.
We just have a lot of work to do.
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This is funny...about what 'fallacy' are you talking about?
If you don't know it after all this time Ansar, you never will. rollThe fallacy of the billion scholars, taba'in, taba taba'in, sahaba etc.?
You gotta love those statistics lolA question to free-minds and those who support them.
Yes, keep asking yourself. wink -
peace be upon you Damon,
Dont feel too downhearted brother, we have been promised the message of al quran (the reading) will never fade, and thus the archetypes described in al quran will never fade. You experienced al haq (the evident truth) first hand! I have also experienced what you speak of.
Wakas
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Salaam brother Damon,
That's the main part of the conversation that keeps popping into my head, he verbally, commandingly and assertively told me NO The Book of GOD is NOT sufficient for him for guidance.
That's the problem when one has chosen the wrong path, they will have to accept every mistake along the way, no matter how absurd... they are blind, deaf and dumb.
PS- I mentioned to you before, if there's anything I can do please don't hesitate to contact me.
Peace.
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Peace be upon you all,
Moderators, do we have enough evidence now that Ansar should be sent on his way? Or are we still being patient to see if he really wants to learn something. I think there were others on here who were sent on there way who were more interested in learning that he is.
Just my opinion.
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Peace be upon you all,
Moderators, do we have enough evidence now that Ansar should be sent on his way? Or are we still being patient to see if he really wants to learn something. I think there were others on here who were sent on there way who were more interested in learning that he is.
Just my opinion.
pff...how sad. You know i've been always nice and respectful to the members of this board.
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Peace Ansar,
Or the fallacy of your sect which never appeared in human history until now?
False. The anti-hadith movement is as old as Hadith itself. Imam Shafi is credited for defeating these groups around the 8th centrury AD. In his greatest work, Al-Risala, one can see his polemics against the anti-hadith group at that time.
-Ams
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Ansar,
This is not your mission to judge, the god is our only judge.
You have to abide by the forum rules or left it in peace.
How am i judging? Isnt free-minds and its members judging as well by calling other muslims names, idol-worshipper and all sorts of other things? Do they also have to abide by the rules? Apparently not.
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Peace Ansar,
Or the fallacy of your sect which never appeared in human history until now?
False. The anti-hadith movement is as old as Hadith itself. Imam Shafi is credited for defeating these groups around the 8th centrury AD. In his greatest work, Al-Risala, one can see his polemics against the anti-hadith group at that time.
-Ams
Please open up a book on islamic history and its formation of sects. There where people who denied some parts of hadith. But they never rejected hadith totally. They always prayed the same, didnt said that haram was halal, performed the same hajj etc. Discussions arose on minor issues. Just like the 4 schools of law.
And pleaaase...give me some quotes from the risala right now. Lets see how truthful you are. And also give me some examples of the 'anti-hadith group' you are talking about.
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Peace brother Damon,
Don't get disheartened and neither be disappointed because the prophet also suffered the same humiliation as you underwent. No one was ready to listen to him because he invited them to the Quran. Prophet had a meagre 70 followers after 13 years of preaching.
Mr. Ansar
FOLLOW that which is SENT DOWN toward you from your Lord, and follow not any patrons (HADITH WRITERS) beside Him; yet little ye are admonished. 73
The COMMAND is to FOLLOW the QURAN, but there is no COMMAND to FOLLOW any BOOK other than the Quran
HOLD thou fast wherefore to that which is REVEALED Unto thee verily thou art on the straight path. 4343
The COMMAND is to HOLD the QURAN only and verily they are on the right path. How those who HOLD BOOKS other than the Quran, be on the right path?
And verily, this (the Qur'an) is indeed a Reminder for you and your people, and you will be QUESTIONED (about it). 4344
The QURAN is a REMINDER for the PROPHET and his FOLLOWERS, where do Bukhari and his hadith stand? Muslims will be QUESTIONED about the QURAN and NOT THE HADITH OF BUKHARI
Mr. Ansar, prove that following prophet = following Bukhari and if you don't then please........
(AS OF TODAY NOT EVEN A SINGLE SCHOLAR HAS COME FORWARD WITH QURANIC EVIDENCES / VERSES TO SUBSTANTIATE THEIR CLAIM THAT "FOLLOWING THE HADITH IS AN ARTICLE OF FAITH")
FOLLOW THE PROPHET
To obey and follow the messenger means (to you) to believe in the Hadith. What do you really mean? Let us put the situation during Prophet Muhammad's days. Do you mean to say that when he frowned and turned away from the blind man, everybody frowned and turned away from 'Abd Allah Ibn Umm Maktum? Or, when he lost a tooth, everybody started pulling his or her tooth? Or, when he moved his right leg, everybody followed him? Or, when he got married for the fourth time, everybody started hunting for the fourth time? Or, when he ate the ribs of lamb, everybody rushed for the lamb's ribs? From the Hadiths, we know that the Prophet was constantly watched - even what he did in the toilet and in the bedroom were witnessed, witnessed by pious and reliable people.
What is the matter with you? How judge you? Or have you a BOOK through which you LEARN. That you shall have all that you choose? 6836/37/38
YES THE MUSLIMS LEARN FROM THE HADITH.
Yes the SUNNI Muslims have ANOTHER book, which is called " THE SAHIH LIES OF BUKHARI HADITH, and they have EVERYTHING in it FOR THEM
The QURAN is not SUFFICIENT for them because, QURAN has no sex, no vulgarity, no fantasy, no nonsense, and no idiotic and false narrations.
RIDICULE
O ye who believe! Let not some men among you LAUGH at others it may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor let some women LAUGH at others it may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) nor DRFAME nor be SARCASTIC to each other nor call each other by (offensive) NICKNAMES Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness (to be used of one) after he has believed And those who do not desist are (Indeed) doing wrong. 4911V/s
Sahih Bukhari 4435 Al Bara
The Prophet said to Hassan, "Lampoon (ridicule) them (i.e. the pagans) and Gabriel is with you."Bukhari has INSULTED the prophet, the Angel of Allah, but these blind scholars and their followers instead of RIDICULING Bukhari are REVERING him. It is shame on the Muslims who follow Bukhari.
BEST GUIDANCE
And believe no one except the one who follows your religion. Say "verily the guidance of Allah IS the guidance" 373V/s
Sahih Bukhari 8120 Tariq
'Abdullah said, "The best talk is Allah's Book (Qur'an), and the best guidance is the guidance of Muhammad."Bukhari CHALLENGES Allah. Prophet's guidance is better than the guidance of Allah
Nor can you guide the blind out of their error, YOU CAN ONLY MAKE TO HEAR those who BELIEVE in Our VERSES, and who have submitted. 2781
Mr. Damon, you cannot make your mentor hear you because he does not truly believe in the verses of Allah, but Bukhari.
Thanks
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Peace Damon
sorry to hear about your experience brother. But I admire your courage in speaking out in the face of your community's rejection.
And bro - just ignore Ansar. He's letting his shaitans get the better of him here - making posts just to rile you. Being rude to people over the internet can be a heady and addictive pastime - I pray Allah will show him a better way.
salaams
asdfjk
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Peace Damon,
Take it easy bro, I've been somewhat in the same puddle as your are for quite some time now, occasionally worse at times.
GOD Bless.
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After what my wife and I have been through the past year and a half with these people here, we've decided that enough's enough. Of course there will always be this kind of idolworshippers no matter where you go, but we are looking to leave Pittsburgh and going somewhere where we will not be the only GOD Alone/Quran Alone people in the city.....even if it means almost starting over from scratch.
Brother Damon
You're on Hijrat! What a Blessing from Allah!
004.100
He who forsakes his home in the cause of Allah, finds in the earth Many a refuge, wide and spacious Should he die as a refugee from home for Allah and His Messenger, His reward becomes due and sure with Allah And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.You're living as an example believing in Allah's order. You're fulfilling Allah's promise.
"Salaamun Alaikkum"
006 . 054
When those come to thee who believe in Our signs, Say "Salaamun Alaikkum" Your Lord hath inscribed for Himself mercy verily, if any of you did evil in ignorance, and thereafter repented, and amend, lo! He is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.Ansar follow him, Damon
Shun the demons.May Allah guide you
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Salaam all,
Thanx a million for the kind words and encouragement. D May Allah Bless you all for your words and for your willingness to brave this storm.
As for you Ansar.....
One last thing, my former mentor's niece also condemed my wife for taking off the hijab and she has a child out of wedlock....as a so-called muslimah. And yet, she has a very prominent position at the Mosque I used to go to but they dismissed my wife from her position there because she refused to wear the hijab. Talk about hypocrisy!!
Good thing they did. Only good muslims should hold such prominent positions so he/she can be a good example to the muslim society
Goes to show how you and the rest of the hadithian race are nothing but dishonest hypocrites!!
According to your sunni shariah, the niece of my ex-mentor should be stoned to death for having sexual relations out of wedlock, or hang to death like they did that 16 year old girl in Iran. But you and the rest of these lying hypocrites overlook this because she is wearing a rag on her head.
How can she be a good muslimah and a good example to the muslim society when she blatantly did what Allah said not to do??!!
Oh, and I forgot to mention the young girl that the Amir of the one Mosque had illicit sex with is also a so-called muslimah. Something else for you to hypocritically think about.
GOD Alone/Quran Alone,
Damon.
