Questions about the soul
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We are servants of God...And how can women be "son of God". I disagree with this.
930
The Jews said ?Ezra is the son of God,? and the Nazarenes said
?The Messiah is the son of God.? Such is their utterances with
their mouths, they imitate the sayings of those who rejected
before them. God will fight them. They are deluded from the
truth!Ezra and Jesus were humans too.
Salam
Children of God.
What is being human anyway? Without body, what are you then? Without body it is just your spiritual identity left.
And what is being servant? What kind of use does God have of servants?
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
Children of God.
What is being human anyway? Without body, what are you then? Without body it is just your spiritual identity left.
And what is being servant? What kind of use does God have of servants?
Be well
Qarael AmenuelServants of God...
1123
?He does not beget, nor was He begotten,?1990
The heavens are about to shatter from it, and the earth crack
open, and the mountains fall and crumble.
1991
That they claimed that the Almighty had a son!
1992
And what need does the Almighty have to take a son?
1993
When all there is in the heavens and the earth will come to the
Almighty as servants. -
That does not work on a person who is not affected by the instinct. You cannot manipulate the will of a controlled being. It is the instinct which makes people weakening in their so-called 'free will'.
Psychology and sociology is good at explaining behavior in instinctive beings who give in to their bodily self, but it can never explain a person who broke free of its shackles.
I primarily use the science of psychology to better understand people. And I understood why I was so alienated in life because I was born with a strong spirit.
Be well
Qarael AmenuelPeace MoF
Maybe you are right about the so-called controlled being.
But do such a person excist, I mean can anybody know what to do right in each situation. Such person would be out of this world (=God) imo.
Anyway the situation is more down to earth. If a person has been manipulated and he realize so, or being told so. Then he wouldnt be easy to manipulate again in same circumstances
Experiments like the one Jafar referring to learns us not always just to follow the crowd/authority blind.
But generally we depend on the crowd to live in an comunity. And in some country you can rely on the authority. Otherwise you would be a social paria.
But that thing to depend on other are not working when some unreliable persons are involved.
So thats why we have our sceptic, and if we have time , we can put things to the test.
Here also comes the question of God inside. Like eg. in the society there is a lot of pressure to eat pig, and not pray at certain times.
But would you here be acting by your free will if you followed Gods instruction.Like Isa says Thy will be done not mine. So even he didn?t wanted to be controlled by his own will all the time ( atleast thats what the Gospel says)
So just to think you always act by free will is an illusion. Or maybe you are one in a trillion
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Peace Jafar
I agrre with you that the will is easily manipulated. But that just shows that its there, and what happend isnt predicted by anyone.
The experiment you refere to shows that we are under great influence of authority. But aint that just why God also using his authority to send us some instructions.
We are after all interacting with our surroundings. A lot of our behavior are affected by social control. But again we have our free will.Total free will wouldnt create any civilisation Im sure.The best 'manipulator' are those (or He) who able to manipulate while the subject do not realize that he was being manipulated.
The best 'controller' are those (or He) who able to control while the subject do not realize that he was being controlled.I realized this while reading a book written and authored by human (and not God), the book who do not threatened any of it's reader with eternal damnation and torture if they disagree with any of it's content... yet nearly all the idea written inside seems to be so true.
For 'something' which knows all things and none is unknown. it will 'control and direct' all thing..
Time and space is not a barrier for it..God does not 'send instruction'.. in a manner as if a human king send out it's decree... and some subject obey while some other disobey / rebelled.
God control everything, all of his plan was, is and will be executed by everything..When time doesn't exist.. the word 'prediction' will lose it's meaning..
When space doesn't exist.. the word 'send' will lose it's meaning.. -
Experiments like the one Jafar referring to learns us not always just to follow the crowd/authority blind.
I seriously do not understand what so special about that experiment.
Is it not a known fact that people make choices based on internal and external factors?
Of course people are ready to hurt others if there is something to gain for them or if they are forced, seriously I do not get the hype for that experiment.
And why the need for such an experiment? Do they not know about WW2, Rwanda, Drug wars, etc etc etc -
I seriously do not understand what so special about that experiment.
Is it not a known fact that people make choices based on internal and external factors?
Of course people are ready to hurt others if there is something to gain for them or if they are forced, seriously I do not get the hype for that experiment.
And why the need for such an experiment? Do they not know about WW2, Rwanda, Drug wars, etc etc etcSpecial or not special is subjective / relative.. so I wouldn't touch that topic..
Just like any other 'revelation', the experiment makes a great realization of the state / nature of things inside this universe.. in this case; a being called human.
The experiment was actually inspired by WW2 Holocaust.. does it really true that all Germans are evil and has no conscience? (Which was the general opinion) Or was it merely the case of 'suppressed conscience by authority'...Subsequent research was actually focusing on the 2% group... the group who dare to side with their own conscience (despite the odd) and resist / fight the authority.. What makes them do such thing? Is there a shared characteristics among those 2% group? Is it DNA related? etc...
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Peace MoF
Maybe you are right about the so-called controlled being.
But do such a person excist, I mean can anybody know what to do right in each situation. Such person would be out of this world (=God) imo.
Anyway the situation is more down to earth. If a person has been manipulated and he realize so, or being told so. Then he wouldnt be easy to manipulate again in same circumstances
Experiments like the one Jafar referring to learns us not always just to follow the crowd/authority blind.
But generally we depend on the crowd to live in an comunity. And in some country you can rely on the authority. Otherwise you would be a social paria.
But that thing to depend on other are not working when some unreliable persons are involved.
So thats why we have our sceptic, and if we have time , we can put things to the test.
Here also comes the question of God inside. Like eg. in the society there is a lot of pressure to eat pig, and not pray at certain times.
But would you here be acting by your free will if you followed Gods instruction.Like Isa says Thy will be done not mine. So even he didn?t wanted to be controlled by his own will all the time ( atleast thats what the Gospel says)
So just to think you always act by free will is an illusion. Or maybe you are one in a trillion
Regarding Eysua and not his will is because he is under the power of a standing prophecy and must follow it because he is "destined".
The purpose of our existence is to become perfected and become "God" although the term god is quite misleading. Your purpose is to become "Being" (Allah) and that is by being complete/whole (salam) like Rabb. Then you have your own independent identity as you were made to be and you truly exist rather than a slave to the human instinctive body. You are then not predictable and you make your own rulings based on "what you will". That is not possible without separating the spirit from the flesh however. That is when you know your (true) self. Your body is a "trick" imposed on you and your life depends on coming to realize you are confused between two you's, the body identity (son of man) and the spiritual identity (son of God). The son of man is enslaved and will be very weakminded because the running of the body is autonomous and being ruled by pleasure and instinct means you do not really make the life your own.
God obviously knew the corruption capabilities of the body is harsh, so anyone able to have so strong willpower as to reject the body's signals is a potential to fulfill the set criteria to succeed the purpose of this development environment.
There are many examples when it is strong to hold up against the instinct. When you are challenged the most and have extra much pressure on you it is meritorious to be able to resist.
Examples
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You are humiliated and your instinct drives you to seek to defeat in revenge, but your inner peace and control over judgment makes you capable of overriding the emotional input. Revenge feels good hormone-wise, but it has no real benefit beyond that. The most developed person would be relatively unaffected and can control the situation and surprise the community by a show of wise judgment through act and saying.
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You have a strong hormone level meaning you are very fertile and it means you have trouble controlling arousal, but your exemplary ruling of the body makes dissociations with triggering stimulus causing the mind to be too distracted to become aroused even at the sight of a fertile and healthy person of the opposite gender.
You are not meant to destroy the body by mistreating it during its interim, but be like the good master and his dog. If the master says "NO!" the dog obeys. The same way your spirit should be able to tell the body "No!" and it obeys. It knows the master is in command and does not rebel.
The body will come with very strong signals (emotions and impulses), but being unaffected by them is a show of development.
And those signals are from the human instinct and what is called Satan in ancient Semitic languages.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
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Regarding Eysua and not his will is because he is under the power of a standing prophecy and must follow it because he is "destined".
Why do you think Eysau is more destined than you and me. Was he in that term a lower human being not able to act by his own will?
I think its nothing to do with being destined. Then that should be the premise for all of us. I think the case is that we should submit to God, and not just do our own will.
Aint that the meaning of Islam to submit to a greater will. We see it also in the so called "Lords prayer" here are all told to pray for the submitment to God.The purpose of our existence is to become perfected and become "God" although the term god is quite misleading. Your purpose is to become "Being" (Allah) and that is by being complete/whole (salam) like Rabb. Then you have your own independent identity as you were made to be and you truly exist rather than a slave to the human instinctive body. You are then not predictable and you make your own rulings based on "what you will". That is not possible without separating the spirit from the flesh however. That is when you know your (true) self. Your body is a "trick" imposed on you and your life depends on coming to realize you are confused between two you's, the body identity (son of man) and the spiritual identity (son of God). The son of man is enslaved and will be very weakminded because the running of the body is autonomous and being ruled by pleasure and instinct means you do not really make the life your own.
God obviously knew the corruption capabilities of the body is harsh, so anyone able to have so strong willpower as to reject the body's signals is a potential to fulfill the set criteria to succeed the purpose of this development environment.
There are many examples when it is strong to hold up against the instinct. When you are challenged the most and have extra much pressure on you it is meritorious to be able to resist.
Examples
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You are humiliated and your instinct drives you to seek to defeat in revenge, but your inner peace and control over judgment makes you capable of overriding the emotional input. Revenge feels good hormone-wise, but it has no real benefit beyond that. The most developed person would be relatively unaffected and can control the situation and surprise the community by a show of wise judgment through act and saying.
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You have a strong hormone level meaning you are very fertile and it means you have trouble controlling arousal, but your exemplary ruling of the body makes dissociations with triggering stimulus causing the mind to be too distracted to become aroused even at the sight of a fertile and healthy person of the opposite gender.
You are not meant to destroy the body by mistreating it during its interim, but be like the good master and his dog. If the master says "NO!" the dog obeys. The same way your spirit should be able to tell the body "No!" and it obeys. It knows the master is in command and does not rebel.
The body will come with very strong signals (emotions and impulses), but being unaffected by them is a show of development.
And those signals are from the human instinct and what is called Satan in ancient Semitic languages.
Be well
Qarael AmenuelThe thought you bring forth is like a brick in your big picture. Or am I wrong?
Anyway your thoughts are quite sympathetic. And they remind me in some manner of the Freud?s view on the human psychology.
He just have three divisions id, ego and super ego.
In your version the ego and super ego are one I think
So do you have the aspect of the things given by the surroundings (Parents, education, self study, freinds etc)You say the criteria to emancipate is to have a strong willpower. But I think willpower in this case has nothing to do with emancipation in general.
Emancipation is much more than willpower. Just think of a child full of willpower screaming at his parent. He are used to get his will and thats why he have a strong willpower. But that dont mean that he in any manner is right in his purpose.
Anyway to get free from basic instinct you first have to acknowledge what you want to achieve. You have to learn what's wrong and right to put it simple.
That ain't just coming from yourselves, even though a child can have a great sense of justice.Right and wrong are something we are socialized into in general. And here comes the Creator plan with us in perspective.
We are given options to chose wrong and right based on what we acknowledged in life.
Can you depend on your own judgement, the society or on God?
In my opinion it should be a combination. But most of all you should submit to the will of God (Islam- Lords prayer).
Otherwise you would be misguided by any other source.Peace and all the best
Niels
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Eysua was chosen for a standing prophesy because of the impression he had made. I am also destined for something just like him, so he was not unique and I could also say on the matter "my will is not my own but of the one who sent me" and by that I mean I am destined.
In general we are all destined, i.e. we live through something we cannot control.
I am not propagating predestination and if you think this is what I am saying you misunderstand me. I mean a person is selected to fulfill something and such is not random.
The whole concept of submission is misconceived and it is not about submitting to anything in particular except good. The word meant to mean submission does not but means to be sound, soundness. What is submission anyway? And what are you supposed to do with your submission?
We are however submitted to the fate of Adam (Perseverance), this condition in which we are and what we have to do to persevere. In this condition we are shattered/broken off from our originator (God) and do not benefit from the control we would be able to possess in unity with God. This is a test how we fare in delusion, if we can grow and this while being deluded this body is our identity. We are like a disconnected platform possessing the same potential (runtime capacity) as the mainframe but without the benefits an uplink would give such as global control to features and at the same time we are exposed to a "virus" called Homo sapiens infecting our software which is intentional as part of the test.
I am not misguided however, it is more that I am able to channel from the record and I am using parables to try to explain more comprehensively.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
Peace Man of faith
What is submission anyway? And what are you supposed to do with your submission?
I think I gave in some manner a clear view what I think is submission and the meaning in my las post.
Submission to submit to Gods will. (Lords prayer and Islam)
Aint that to give up your own ego?
But in someway I see that you crusade is to strengthen you ego by counting on your own judgement and focusing on your own will power (correct me if Im wrong)
Is that why you go against the idea of submission to Gods will?I am not misguided however, it is more that I am able to channel from the record and I am using parables to try to explain more comprehensively.
How can you know you aint misguided if you don't want to submit to the will of God? ( again that what I read in your answer, so correct me if Im wrong)
God Bless
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Hello,
Yes, but I would like to see a motivation and perhaps a purpose too.
What is ego to you? Is it being egotistical or do you refer to the personal identity as a being?
If you referred to the latter, then yes, I am seeking to strengthen my personal being, but whether I am going against the will of God.. no I am not. I am complying with the parameters of the test and doing my part of what is to do and accomplish.
Concerning my faculties, I do possess the functionality of God like an offline version without a depository or previously evolved functionality, like a god from scratch. So I do embrace my judgment capacity based on what I know even though it may be limited and I try to use my faculty of reason and logic to the best of my ability, and I know the instinct of a human is a great disadvantage in doing so, so I try to build up a distance to my bodily self which is like a nemesis and contains what is called Satan.
Are you sufficiently conscious to judge whether I "submit to the will of God" or not? Perhaps I use another terminology and way of seeing it.
The word sejeda in Arabic is the word which means to be submitted to someone or something. I submit to the purpose of being and by that the will of God as you call it.
The other word commonly used to say submitted (or in servitude), which is abeda (abd), does not mean so. The word is deeper than so and means literally one being merged, not their own, and slave or servant is the wrong perspective.
Hajj is a word which means one's voluntary devotion to a cause, erroneously associated with a Pagan pilgrimage.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
Hello Man of faith
Thanks for your answer.
What is ego to you? Is it being egotistical or do you refer to the personal identity as a being?
For me the ego is your self alone, not including anyone else. And in the behavioral way you can be egotistical yes
Like the spoiled child thinking ME, ME, ME.I think submission is the opposite. How else should we be able to submit and give up on our own will?
Concerning my faculties, I do possess the functionality of God like an offline version without a depository or previously evolved functionality, like a god from scratch. So I do embrace my judgment capacity based on what I know even though it may be limited and I try to use my faculty of reason and logic to the best of my ability, and I know the instinct of a human is a great disadvantage in doing so, so I try to build up a distance to my bodily self which is like a nemesis and contains what is called Satan.
Wow that was some kind of a statement anddeep stuff. And very interesting. So if you dont mind I want to dig deeper into it.
In some manner it reminds me of Pauls words Rom 7 v18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do.
I think you and him have the same way of looking at the evil inside yourself.
I dont know if you want to be compared with him. It looks like that you also in other manners could be by the way.For me he is somebody who are very sure where the people should be directed. He saw the light and now he has a mission to convince others about his view.
For me he os the big deceiver and corrupter of the mission of Christ.So if anybody just reminds me of him, Im aware, I think.
Anyway we are told only to have one God, so is your concept like the trinitians. Where they claiming that there can be more into that one God?
You also remind me of the faith of the Mormons claiming something about we also are able to be part of God, and that our spirits are eternal like God. I had a great time reading half of their book.(that was enough for that time) I never seen a more obvious fake production claiming to be inspired from God. So also in that manner I have my skeptic
I just think so many people thinking they have a special mission, and think they are doing the right thing in the name of God. But basically they are just wrong.
But like I said before maybe you could be that one being just right.Are you sufficiently conscious to judge whether I "submit to the will of God" or not? Perhaps I use another terminology and way of seeing it.
The word sejeda in Arabic is the word which means to be submitted to someone or something. I submit to the purpose of being and by that the will of God as you call it.
The other word commonly used to say submitted (or in servitude), which is abeda (abd), does not mean so. The word is deeper than so and means literally one being merged, not their own, and slave or servant is the wrong perspective.
Hajj is a word which means one's voluntary devotion to a cause, erroneously associated with a Pagan pilgrimage.
Yes, that is in some manner the key word for be Do you submit to the will of God or not. Even though I ain't claiming that I myself do so. Even though that's what I pray for. But my heart's desire and my own pride move in an opposite direction.
You say that you submit to the purpose and being, and by that the will of God.
But Don?t we all have to submit to the purpose of being. Or what do you mean?
I cant really get you. It look to me that you know that you have to submit but then again you cant really do it. And claiming it just a natural part of life.(Am I wrong)In your definitions I dont see the word Islam. For me that also stand for submission.
Peace and God Bless you.
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But why must you give up your ability to use your mind?
And what is the will of God?
What if there are different channels of God's will? And what if God wills for us to use the faculty of reason and logic?
I know the truth is buried in a lot of falsehood.
My perception is not associated with Paul and I never was a fan of his writings. I am basing my perception on Eysua's own utterances and what I have understood of Quran.
What we consider evil in the world is because humans in general give in to their instinct and their spirit is not sufficiently developed but is actually quite dim. The source of this darkness is stemming from people themselves and cannot be blamed on an external entity (i.e. Satan as a person). Humans were made weak by bestowing their bodies with a strong instinctive system and which is the actual Satan. In ways, you can consider your body to be Satan while your soul is your self. Your life is a constant conflict between the body's desires and the you, unless you manage to master yourself. By listening to the bodily you rather listen to Satan than God.
I think you are lost in a world of deluded concepts about what God is.
I mean, what the heck is submit to the will of? Do you know what is the will to begin with?
By purpose of being I meant that you do what is required of you to fulfill the purpose of why you were placed in this world. Obviously God has a purpose of doing so, but it is not a primitive reason.
And, my way of presenting the choice of life is the best explanation you can get. You know that you choose between Satan or God, but you cannot generate a consistent elaboration on what it is you are choosing between. Satan represents the bodily identity and everything the body desires in its life and it is failure in doing so and hence being lost in delusion. Do not think you can pass through without having to withstand a challenge, a contradiction. Satan is against you throughout your whole life and will constantly seek to seduce you to give into bodily temptations and which are Hierarchical tendency, materialism, vanity, obsession, selfishness (looking out for own kin in priority, self-preservation), domination, violence, promiscuity, greed and jealousy.
Easily rounded up, everything which makes you an animal you must struggle with.
You submit to "God's will" (as you call it) by understanding the purpose of being and then fulfill what was set to be overcome in the world. The world is "programmed" to corrupt its inhabitants and so to say "consume them". Reject to let it consume you and you submit to what God willed for people to fulfill in terms of criteria for salvation.
And the word Islam does not mean submission, it does mean soundness. If you greet someone with Salam you do not tell them "submit!" you wish them "be healthy!". Same is that the creed of Islam means to be sound, of a sane mind.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
But why must you give up your ability to use your mind?
I dont think you have to do that if you want to submit to the will of God
And what is the will of God?
For me its to follow the things I thinks is correct according to God. And here I need to use my mind and study what I think is the word God (Quran
What if there are different channels of God's will? And what if God wills for us to use the faculty of reason and logic?
I agrre with you to the use of faculty and logic. And different channels I must say Im pretty aware when someone claiming like that.
I know the truth is buried in a lot of falsehood.
My perception is not associated with Paul and I never was a fan of his writings. I am basing my perception on Eysua's own utterances and what I have understood of Quran.
I also assumed so. Glad to hear that we here also share belief
What we consider evil in the world is because humans in general give in to their instinct and their spirit is not sufficiently developed but is actually quite dim. The source of this darkness is stemming from people themselves and cannot be blamed on an external entity (i.e. Satan as a person). Humans were made weak by bestowing their bodies with a strong instinctive system and which is the actual Satan. In ways, you can consider your body to be Satan while your soul is your self. Your life is a constant conflict between the body's desires and the you, unless you manage to master yourself. By listening to the bodily you rather listen to Satan than God.
I think you are lost in a world of deluded concepts about what God is.
I mean, what the heck is submit to the will of? Do you know what is the will to begin with?
By purpose of being I meant that you do what is required of you to fulfill the purpose of why you were placed in this world. Obviously God has a purpose of doing so, but it is not a primitive reason.
And, my way of presenting the choice of life is the best explanation you can get. You know that you choose between Satan or God, but you cannot generate a consistent elaboration on what it is you are choosing between. Satan represents the bodily identity and everything the body desires in its life and it is failure in doing so and hence being lost in delusion. Do not think you can pass through without having to withstand a challenge, a contradiction. Satan is against you throughout your whole life and will constantly seek to seduce you to give into bodily temptations and which are Hierarchical tendency, materialism, vanity, obsession, selfishness (looking out for own kin in priority, self-preservation), domination, violence, promiscuity, greed and jealousy.
Easily rounded up, everything which makes you an animal you must struggle with.
By purpose. Are you thinking Predetermined. Or are you more general like Emancipation?
And I just dont think all that easy like that. Because not all that make you like an animal cant be defined as bad. But the things you mention I think are correct (are it the 10 deadly sins). But don't they comes from a godly source like Quran, or how did you came up with them.
I also think it can be difficult to determine what is for instant materialism and what is not. Where are the line that tells you that know you are over the limit.
My claim is that if you state one thing like a deadly sin at lets assume that this becoming a common standard. I think we saw the example of that in the hippie period. Like someone could claim that you was to materialistic and demanding to give up your belongings.
The consequence is there will be a oppression and a invasion in peoples private spheres.
But if the meaning is that we are following Gods will and instruction. I can agree.
For me the answer is given in Quran We should make our prayers. And the reason is given in 2935 .. hold the contact prayer, for the contact prayer prohibits immorality and vice; but certainly the remembrance of God is the greatest. God knows everything you do.So for me that is to do the will of God. But also we should read the Quran and follow like its stated also.
You submit to "God's will" (as you call it) by understanding the purpose of being and then fulfill what was set to be overcome in the world. The world is "programmed" to corrupt its inhabitants and so to say "consume them". Reject to let it consume you and you submit to what God willed for people to fulfill in terms of criteria for salvation.
In general I think we agrre. Just I still claiming to the keywords Submit to the will of God.
I just afraid to be led astray if I follow my own intuition onlyAnd the word Islam does not mean submission, it does mean soundness. If you greet someone with Salam you do not tell them "submit!" you wish them "be healthy!". Same is that the creed of Islam means to be sound, of a sane mind.
Okay. You may be right. But then we should follow a combination of Islam (sane mind) and Lords Prayer (Submission to the will of God)
All the best and God bless you.
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If you force someone to your standards or beliefs you violate the directives while you would seek to make others uphold them. One always have to reflect if seeking to make yourself or others uphold a directive will violate another directive.
The universe was created with a purpose "in mind" and because it is decided in advance the course of its cycle this is a predetermined part of existence. Included in it are predetermined events, either made when the universe was created or on-the-fly and a determination means its subject will be made come true in the world. The knowing of such determination is a prophecy and what makes a prophet. God, including the angels, may issue determinations and therefore the storyline may be altered during the course of time. It also means something can be decided 2000 years earlier but come true in another time 2000 years later and a person fulfills the prophecies as this person is born selected to fulfill them. God has minute control.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel