nature of nature

imrankhawaja

Imran, it all depends on how one sees things that makes oneself peaceful and happy.
are you really sure Rich are more peaceful and happy than the poor? apart from money there are more factors like Good health, required knowledge etc those plays an important role in our survival.. WE ALL WILL GO for each of these as per our requirement loose some and gain others, in the process some learn that nothing is in our hands and attain peace and many are in the process.

We do whatever we wished or not wished for, it happens only whatever He wants.

if rich encounter any health issue he is also able to sort it out with the help of money...

for a poor if unfortunately he approach illness , he is not worried about health but the first thing come in his mind (doctor fee)...

look the difference ... even in this case ... rich is peaceful , he have people to look after him, he have money to get better treatment..

on the other hand poor is selecting a choice , shall he feed his kids or make his treatment? who is in peace you tell me now .. hmm

as far i concerned i never relly bother about richies as i know it will lost one day ... but when i feel this thing deluded people around me , at that time i feel like its sin to be poor in rich society....

amin

if rich encounter any health issue he is also able to sort it out with the help of money...

for a poor if unfortunately he approach illness , he is not worried about health but the first thing come in his mind (doctor fee)...

look the difference ... even in this case ... rich is peaceful , he have people to look after him, he have money to get better treatment..

on the other hand poor is selecting a choice , shall he feed his kids or make his treatment? who is in peace you tell me now .. hmm

as far i concerned i never relly bother about richies as i know it will lost one day ... but when i feel this thing deluded people around me , at that time i feel like its sin to be poor in rich society....

Rich or poor, No one has the choice is my view so lets not worry with what others have, but we go for whatever we need be it money health knowledge etc but we remember behind those is Him...so lets thank Him.

imrankhawaja

yes brother i agree , what we can do is either thanks to him what he provide to us... or do patience on what we dnt have...

but my topic is , when humans do things it considered as wrongdoings the same things what God is doing

he killed us, he test us, he give us hunger fear and loss , is that how a human being is tested..nobody really want to test like that..

this life is not a test its something else more broader than test , interpreting life as test in my humble view does not fit in my dictionary..

a task is more closing word to what we are suffering in this life...
even a task started on unfair basis...

a child born in africa compared to uk is something very unfair
a child born in rich family compared to poor is very unfair...
a child born as disabled compared to normal is very unfair....
a child born as singer/actor/player as a natural ability is very unfair to the child born without that...?

good_logic

Peace Imran.

GOD has the complete and perfect knowledge.
GOD assigns souls to each individual at a specific time to a specific family in a specific place on earth according to His knowledge of that soul.. GOD only knows how each soul should be tried,when and where.

GOD also allows freedom of choice to that soul throughout this life. GOD does not interfere in that soul decision to accept or reject GOD s system. GOD does not force anyone to accept His way And there lies the problems you are discussing,all born of the decision and choice of the soul.
For example,regardless of where and to whom a believing soul is born, GOD has promised its protection and happiness in this life and the next after the soul makes the right decision to accept GOD s message/system.

Your questions,although understandable,can all be answered in GOD s message with more patience and trust in GOD .

GOD bless you.
Peace.

imrankhawaja

peace GL,

before posting these type of topics i always think twice either its good to post it or not...
but just for the views of other forum memebers i share these things , i know nobody have answers of some of my questions...

obviously becoz we all are same human beings in this illusion .. of game what is called as life...

intrestingly untill a person is happy and relax there is not any question comes in his mind...

all questions only comes when you are suffering from something... its actually Good, sometimes God gives us pain/test just to remind us the important questions what we neglect in our happy times... rotfl

in my every discussion i always say one thing , according to my weak understanding...
we are in the middle of somewhere and its untill the day of judgement our story goes...
we cannot understand either the purpose of life or the cause of unfair deals in this world...
when the day come , almighty as per his ultimate justice will decide the matter with full of justice .. and everybody will get satisfied... (he alone knows the secrets of heavens and earth)...

but again what i want to highlight on , if i/we take somebodys life we consider as killers... but he takes the lifes of millions of people every single day... is he not a killer? by defination.. killer is the one who terminate somebodys life...

apart from that most disturbing thing is... if i/we need something and i/we know God is the one who can provide it.. then why giving us pain... is he always give things after pain?

i give a parable.. already let say i m feeling cold/hungry... thats a human nature/need ..
i must need to eat , creator also knows it ,
so if he is giving me pain in getting my food its not really fair ... infront of me its illogical... becoz he knows already if i test a beleiver he will do patience and if i test a disbeleuver he will not do patience... so whole test thingie flop down here...

i mean God dnt need to test me/you or anybody if he already know everything...
why would i test my son and not give him food when he is shouting for hunger...if i do it people will call me cruel or bad father...

but look what God is doing.... there are millions of screams every single second asking Gods help but a silence is always what they approach...

good_logic

Peace Imran.

I do not have the problem you describe. Why?

I know I am given limited knowledge. I now accept GOD s system,therefore I trust Him and trust in Him complete and fair justice for everyone.,

My purpose is becoming clearer slowly. I need to get on with my life as instructed in GOD s message,being patient for the many things I do not know or understand . I await patiently my answers as He wills for me.
Living by His instructions and commands( What I understand them to be now) is all I can do until I understand better or clearer to move to the next level and so on...
I leave all the rest of my confusing state to His will also,but I make the effort to try and improve my standard of knowledge and understanding,relying on GOD Alone to guide me to each level according to His knowledge of my true character and true convictions.

Of course there are many things about what goes on in life that we do not comprehend but I have every confidence GOD knows exactly what He is doing.
GOD can take life or give it as He chooses. Everything belongs to GOD and nothing belongs to His creation.
One thing for sure GOD never errs ,regrets or does any injustice. That suffices for me for now.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

imrankhawaja

so, if i/we kill somebody .. we consider as killer.. ( God kill everybody ,everysingle day plantey of them)

i think the best answer so far for this first question suddenly come in my mind yesterday...

if we forget for a second , there is no God...

the default position of world will remain same , indirectly the law of courts run by the same system what is the natural system of God...

nobody is allowed to take the life of anybody ... becoz same like stealing , we take something what does not belong to us at the first place.. so its wrong by law , and also by conscience of self... wrong doing is always wrong doing...

about the life at first everything belongs to him.. he have a right to terminate our life/stay on this planet becoz he is also able to give us life back that what he promise... with respect to full picture ... he killed and he ll give life again...

moreover he is the copywriter of life and death , we are not if we kill somebody we are not able to bring him back ... and we disturb the natural law of most powerful ,

so if we do killing its a wrongdoing/criminal thing/unjust thing..
when he do it .. he did not kill a soul he transferred the soul to another dimenshn ... same like i move my thing from one place to another...

God bless you all

Jafar

when he do it .. he did not kill a soul he transferred the soul to another dimenshn ... same like i move my thing from one place to another...

Something that was not born shall never dies..

Name, Religion, Nationality, Race, Ethnicity and all other social identity related things was born and shall die...

"If you understand yourself you are illuminated.
If you overcome yourself you have strength.
If you can die without feeling a loss, you are eternal.?
-- Lao Tse

imrankhawaja

brother jaffar , if you help me giving your thoughts in the unfair deals of this world ... it would b helpful i read lot of articles and work of traditional /non traditional , beleivers non beleivers concepts about the pain of life... but did not get any satisfactory answer yet...

apart from the concept of reincarnation...

as i beleive you also beleive in one higher being .. what usally people call God almighty..

what do you think a person born with disabilities , poor, hunger , ugliness and all other stuff ...

there is a loop hole in understanding the concept of reincarnation too , becoz in oone life one is sinner and in one life he is righteous which case God will refer .. while sentencing or rewarding...

apart from the theory of reincarnation .. what do you think why there is unfairness in this world... a true God cant b unjustice , illogical .. there must b something nobody cracked it yet...

what do you think about the pain of life... why it occurs

Man_of_Faith

There is no loophole. If you are terrible in a lifetime and die in that condition, you will be recycled into an inferior condition, so what goes around comes around. Your purpose is to get out of the reincarnation cycles, so only by getting out you are truly successful. Even if you were horrible in another life that does not prevent you from escaping the next if you get in a better state of mind and develop all that which you missed in your previous life plus recovered the soul decay that you caused then.

People with serious hardships either suffer the consequences of past deeds or cause the hardship themselves due to their own clumsiness and ignorance.

Reincarnation is highly logical in rationality, there are no problems with the concept of reality.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel

imrankhawaja

There is no loophole. If you are terrible in a lifetime and die in that condition, you will be recycled into an inferior condition, so what goes around comes around. Your purpose is to get out of the reincarnation cycles, so only by getting out you are truly successful. Even if you were horrible in another life that does not prevent you from escaping the next if you get in a better state of mind and develop all that which you missed in your previous life plus recovered the soul decay that you caused then.

People with serious hardships either suffer the consequences of past deeds or cause the hardship themselves due to their own clumsiness and ignorance.

Reincarnation is highly logical in rationality, there are no problems with the concept of reality.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel

brother as the matter of fact .. we need to check it through logic... according to your logic there is another loophole i can see..

before calculating the worth of your claim... i would like to ask 2 questions ... when you will give answers of these questions you will understand why i have problem in accepting reincarnation...

is population of world increasing or decreasing ... ?
is the amount of sin increasing or decreasing?

when you manage to give the answers which is very simple ... you will get to know the flaw of reincarnation theory...

anyway the theory best describe the pain of life ... thats why i also interested in it... but when i think deeply i feel its not true... or unacceptable... due to these 2 questions...

Jafar

brother jaffar , if you help me giving your thoughts in the unfair deals of this world ... it would b helpful i read lot of articles and work of traditional /non traditional , beleivers non beleivers concepts about the pain of life... but did not get any satisfactory answer yet...

what do you think a person born with disabilities , poor, hunger , ugliness and all other stuff ...

When people see some things as beautiful,
other things become ugly.
When people see some things as good,
other things become bad.
-- Lao Tse

The universe is beautiful not because of it's equality and uniformity.
It's beautiful due to it's diversity.
Zillions of worlds, stars and galaxies
All possess their own unique identity.

Appreciating without judging
Accept things as it is
Accept events as it happened
Then you shall gain the understanding
-- Jafar

there is a loop hole in understanding the concept of reincarnation too , becoz in oone life one is sinner and in one life he is righteous which case God will refer .. while sentencing or rewarding...

Perhaps the 'loop hole' is actually on the idea of this entire thing is about "sentencing or rewarding"?
Have you pondered from that angle?
Or you are too judgemental kind of person and cannot resist to pass a judgement on everything?

If you close your mind in judgements and traffic with desires,
your heart will be troubled.
If you keep your mind from judging and aren't led by the senses,
your heart will find peace.
-- Lao Tse

what do you think about the pain of life... why it occurs

Perhaps in time you shall gain the understanding...

reel

Hahaha, I asked a similar question last year. It was, however, mainly about those who are out to kill like Dick Cheney. There are some things I get now. It is hard for me to explain, but I'll give it a shot.

so, if i/we kill somebody .. we consider as killer.. ( God kill everybody ,everysingle day plantey of them)

God may kill everybody, but he has given us a chance to customize how we want to die. We have the power to choose a painless death which humans' themselves can't do when they are out to kill.

if i/we take something from someone we consider as thief ( he provides to whomever he wish ) sometimes a person like billgates whose money length is twice the distance of mars... lol and (sometimes there is not even a piece of bread in africa for poor kids)

God is available to all. Humans can get his help in all their endeavor and once they choose a path, God keeps taking them to that direction even when they reject him.

When i asked the question about the riches some members here told me that from afar we can't be certain whether these people are actually living a great life. I now agree with it. I am always criticizing Rothschild because of the amount of blood they have on their hands. Just a few months ago, I was reading some books about some of the most successful entrepreneurs. Rothschild was in it. Apparently, they are not happy like I thought. They just can't walk to any place they like. They are extremely hated in Europe. 24 hours a day, they live in fear of getting insulted and assassinated. The attempts are just so common!

You know we are capable of making the world a better place. It is not difficult to improve the lives of African kids. But we don't try it. We don't even try to get rid of corruption in our respective countries.

if i am asking from my parents a piece of cloth/meal due to feeling hungry/cold my parents got a stock but they still refuse to give it (what i will feel about my parents)

is it becoz my parents dnt feel the pain of me... or they are happy in giving me pain?

I wouldn't compare parents and God. Parents are limited in their power. God isn't. He gives us when we ask him for what we want.

and lot of more questions ... why we are here?

To maintain the earth.

when a human being do things exactly what God is doing with the system of universe we considered as sinners/criminals

he do what he wish .. or he do everything according to law what he design? our answer lies here...

We were not meant to play God. We are given a task which we are to do. We can get an easy exit, but humans have got so attached to worldly life that they think they are entitled to every good thing for free. We have taken earth on lease. If we mess it up the landlord will obviously drag us to court and jail.

God is still being very kind.

Man_of_Faith

In some ways we are to play God. It is God-like to withstand the instinct, it takes a strong willpower.

Examples

Someone hurts you deeply.
You retaliate by response to instinct.
A beautiful person goes in the street.
You cannot resist looking and arouse yourself.
You are in a situation where your explanation of yourself may affect you positively.
You exaggerate your testimony (against the "do not carry false testimony" commandment).
Your son and another person's son quarrel.
You take your son's side without much search for an underlying cause (against "care for your neighbor as yourself", instinct of self-preservation).
Your neighbor buys a new 65" 4k LED - TV.
You desire the same model TV because he has bought it, but you cannot afford it and you are therefore jealous and a negative attitude is harbored in you instead.
You desire to defeat an opponent in a game very much.
You play in a foul way and damage the opponent to achieve your goal (the ancient decree of Moses urged not to seek to defeat at all, it is an instinct).
You work most of the time.
All your brain activity goes to think about work (you miss Sabbateh, reflection frequently and is obsessed with something).
You seek to climb on the hierarchical ladder.
You succumb to the human's instinct of hierarchy and forget God is One.
Your home contains many unnecessary objects and more expensive ones than you require.
You are materialistic, a most prominent human instinct, and they are often to display your social status, another instinct.
You do many vain things, much time goes on something you know you should not do.
You are indulgent.

If one can withstand everything in this list of examples they are godly. It is commendable/praiseworthy to be successful with this. It shows total completion.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel

imrankhawaja

there is exactly oppsoite is also happening in this world

a person eating chicken /lamb
a person watching them eating chicken/lamb. he did not eat it from ages...

a person watching a tv in home
a person dnt have a place to live , he dnt need tv...

a person is driving a bmw/ferrari
a person is walking , he dnt even have money for public transport...

a person born in a family wiith silverspoon in his mouth
a person born and people found him in dust bin becoz parents want to get rid of him due to poverty or whatever reason.

a person born in america/europe is free to travel/live anyhwere without being disturb by immigration
a person born inn africa /asia is treated like a third world citizen... and is not free to move/live other parts of world...

a person born in america /europe have nothing to worry about education
a person born in asia/africa is forceffuly put on child labour due to the high education prices and the one who ruuning these institutes are legal robbers who sale the education what is a gift to human being(from God) to share with other people...

a person who feel jealous is obviously not a right thing..
but a person struggling for his basic rights like , food cloth, education ,residence is not a thing to get jealous.. but its his right..

while somethings only the people who are suffering can understand..
what i know is, in this life/world there is not anything on balance , becoz we are the one who are responsible for balance in it but we are less caring about it... we appears to take much care in making more cars then neighbour, making more bank balance than brother, making more houses for investment...

if somebody have one car he will go for 4 ,5 ,6 and so on
he just dnt realise his one car can fullfill hundred poor houses... but what we can say God gives to whoever he wish..

at first i was asking these issues from God thanx to him who make me understand its not God who is responsible for the pain of world.. its the human greed we as a khalifa did not paying our duties properly.. including me...

good_logic

Brother Imran, You forgot some more....
A person born to a slave of Pharoah, his mum threw him in the "Yam", he became the "Adopted son" of Pharoah....complete the story ....

A person born to a prophet as a gift from GOD.... Chose to wonder in the wilderness,calling to the Lord...Met a horrendous end...Complete the story...

...Weird and wonderful persons walked this earth,rich ,poor, rich then poor,poor then rich...Complete the story...

And this life goes on...Today for you, tomorrow....Complete the story...

Yes indeed, ..A person with GOD s gift ...Meditates to drive away the shackles and bad thoughts...Accepts whatever is on offer from the Lord( Yes ,even a horrendous life and death)...keeps close to GOD no matter where or when he/she was born.. Stays patient and loyal to his/her Lord for this short stay here... Then goes on to meet his/her maker...The real life starts ...Eternity ,here we come...Now that is the real life and provision....GOD will complete the story.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

imrankhawaja

Brother Imran, You forgot some more....
A person born to a slave of Pharoah, his mum threw him in the "Yam", he became the "Adopted son" of Pharoah....complete the story ....

A person born to a prophet as a gift from GOD.... Chose to wonder in the wilderness,calling to the Lord...Met a horrendous end...Complete the story...

...Weird and wonderful persons walked this earth,rich ,poor, rich then poor,poor then rich...Complete the story...

And this life goes on...Today for you, tomorrow....Complete the story...

Yes indeed, ..A person with GOD s gift ...Meditates to drive away the shackles and bad thoughts...Accepts whatever is on offer from the Lord( Yes ,even a horrendous life and death)...keeps close to GOD no matter where or when he/she was born.. Stays patient and loyal to his/her Lord for this short stay here... Then goes on to meet his/her maker...The real life starts ...Eternity ,here we come...Now that is the real life and provision....GOD will complete the story.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

yes brother i totally agree ,

God is encompassing everything ..

let beleiver trust in God , the only satisfaction of heart that pleases beleiver
although there are some cases that never get a chance to fullfill the wishes in this life but

our story goes untill hereafter and God as per his ultimate justice is also looking as a beleoved mother and father(methaphorically) at our future so he leads us towards light from the depth of darkness...

to God alone in we trust ...

Man_of_Faith

We could also give to whomever we wish, but we do not, because we are instinctive. But keeping someone poor like we do would put blame on God, no God has no cause in this but the blame is on us being actors in this world. No, it is we who do not offer the poor man money, support and education so he can lift himself out of his situation. God is not subjected to this world and its challenge but we are and our holding onto money manifests our failure. The more hoarding the worse failure one is.

I saw in another thread there was one stating the distribution of wealth in the world. Just look at that.

If a billionaire is giving 3/4 of his fortune this is not a particularly big sacrifice of his. He will still have a modest 250.000.000 if he had one billion. But if a commoner gives from his monthly income whatever excess he has then this one is most charitable.

Another thing is the one who runs a company, pays good salary to his employees, employs as many as the company can, contributes to the society and the person does split the excess of the company's income on expanding the company to hire even more workers or the company gives money to charity. But usually, the best is if the company can hire as many workers as possible to bring the unemployment down.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel

imrankhawaja

nobody is ready to spend their money on poor..

thats why when the pressure of money increase(in singlehand) it also increase the chances of wars ..

good_logic

Man Of Faith, it is our attitude towards work that needs adjusting before we can willingly adjust the wealth.

We put jobs on a ladder of our made up status. We do not respect certain jobs that are necessary and need doing everyday and give them to lesser status people. We arrogantly lord it upon each other and put classes and races in order of delusion and injustice.

For example many people clean at home ,but how many are willing to do the job of cleaner. Granted certain jobs require a lot of study and training like doctors ,teachers etc... But still one should have the attitude that all jobs that are necessary and beneficial need respect.

Also ,some people are lazy and irresponsible others are in between and others are hard working and responsible.An attitude of mind that says we should all try our best in our jobs is also required.

Not easy brother, which ever way we look at it ,is it?
GOD bless you.
Peace.