Is it Shirk to believe in Angels?
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Hi everyone,
So I've been a Quran alone muslim (Alhamdulilah) for a couple of years now, and I've always believed in angels because the Quran mentions them quite often.
Verse 1311 tells about angels being around us and guarding us by the command of God.
Verse 661 tells about angels who snatch away our soul when we die.
Verse 8210 tells about angels who record our deeds.
Verse 4136 tells us we're also required to believe in God's angels in order to be believers.A friend of mine whom I've met at work (who is older than me and has been a Quran alone muslim for a longer time than I am) told me that believing in angels can be Shirk.
He said angels possess no power, are only symbolic, represent God's force and aren't separate creatures who carry out God's commands. He basically said that there is only God and nothing else, and that He is all encompassing, and carrying out everything and is running everything. He also doesn't believe in jinn by the way.He said angels do not take away the soul and that I shouldn't take the verses literally, and that God is the One who takes our lives (verse 5344).
I agree with the fact that God is running everything and also had this verse in mind
"And any matter you are in, or any reciting you do of the Qur'an, or any work you do; We are witnesses over you when you under- take it. Nothing is hidden from your Lord, not even the weight of an atom on the earth or in the heavens, nor smaller than that nor larger, except it is in a clear record." (1061)It actually makes sense what this friend told me... but so many verses tell us about the angels, and God telling them to prostrate to Adam, etc. And what about God and the angels descending from the heavens on the Day of Judgment? What about the angels who are singing His praise, etc.? This whole thing made me very confused.
If believing in angels risks us of falling into Shirk, then why does the Quran contain so many references to them as if they are separate creatures, even if it is symbolic?
Right now I basically believe in angels, but I see them pure as creatures of God who only carry out God's command, are made of light and can also serve as messengers.
Am I wrong? Is my friend wrong? Can anyone explain? Of course I'll pray to God for guidance and study the Quran for myself, but I was just wondering if anyone here had already looked into the subject and by any chance shared the same beliefs as my friend.
Thank you and peace.
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Peace,
Believing in the angels is not shirk. God instructs us that belief in God is believing in him, his books, his angels and his messengers, and doing good.
However many people here would call angels controllers, which I believe is inaccurate since God is the only one in control,
Malaikat most likely in my understanding means along the lines of workers, as malaakah in Hebrew means along the lines of employment/work/service and we know that they serve God in full, and carry out his tasks. I do not believe the angels are part of God, but rather in my understanding of the scriptures they carry the name of God, much like an employee represents their employer, hence why the revelation comes with God's name. But the angels themselves have only been taught what God taught them and does what he tells them.
If I recall correctly there is no direct mention of the creation of angels, in my understanding in the bible or the Quran, however I would say they are created beings, based at least on surah 35 FaTir, which mentions God made the angels having wings/arms two three or four, he increases in HIS CREATION whatever he wills.
However God how's best,
Belief in angels is not shirk, however, there are some cases of exception, for example the case, clearly evidenced I believe in many new age religions, of people supposedly serving angels, but are in fact serving the jinn, based on (God questioning the angels) was it you that these were serving? They say glory be to you it was not right for us to take allies other than you, nay most of them were serving the Jinn, most of them were believers In them.. I recommend looking up that verse, can't recall the reference.
God possess all things and he is the maalik, possessor/king of everything and to him is the possession/kingdom of the heavens and the earth.
Angels are without doubt true, but shouldn't be worshipped, as they are servants also.
And there is not a god if not Allah
Peace
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Peace,
Believing in the angels is not shirk. God instructs us that belief in God is believing in him, his books, his angels and his messengers, and doing good.
However many people here would call angels controllers, which I believe is inaccurate since God is the only one in control,
Malaikat most likely in my understanding means along the lines of workers, as malaakah in Hebrew means along the lines of employment/work/service and we know that they serve God in full, and carry out his tasks. I do not believe the angels are part of God, but rather in my understanding of the scriptures they carry the name of God, much like an employee represents their employer, hence why the revelation comes with God's name. But the angels themselves have only been taught what God taught them and does what he tells them.
If I recall correctly there is no direct mention of the creation of angels, in my understanding in the bible or the Quran, however I would say they are created beings, based at least on surah 35 FaTir, which mentions God made the angels having wings/arms two three or four, he increases in HIS CREATION whatever he wills.
However God how's best,
Belief in angels is not shirk, however, there are some cases of exception, for example the case, clearly evidenced I believe in many new age religions, of people supposedly serving angels, but are in fact serving the jinn, based on (God questioning the angels) was it you that these were serving? They say glory be to you it was not right for us to take allies other than you, nay most of them were serving the Jinn, most of them were believers In them.. I recommend looking up that verse, can't recall the reference.
God possess all things and he is the maalik, possessor/king of everything and to him is the possession/kingdom of the heavens and the earth.
Angels are without doubt true, but shouldn't be worshipped, as they are servants also.
And there is not a god if not Allah
Peace
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Thank you all for your replies.
What that friend basically says is that believing that God needs 'helpers' such as angels is also setting up partners with Him and contradicting some other verses. He says that many people either mistranslate most verses or take them too literally.
@ meem noon
I've read the link you posted, thanks. It's an interesting article, but what confuses me are things like angels who 'stir clouds and drive the wind'. Isn't there another verse that explains God alone controls the clouds?It reminds me of a belief upheld by most Sunni muslims who say angels also control the raindrops (the Quran mentions no such thing if I'm not mistaken). The Quran alone friend of mine said it has little difference of the ancient polytheistic faith of the Greeks, who also believed different entities are controlling different aspects of nature.
@ Timotheus
Yes, when I looked into the Quran Reformist Translation, I also noticed that they have translated angels as 'controllers', which also seemed so wrong to me since God is indeed the Only One in control.
I share the same beliefs as you do regarding the angels.. I see them as creations of God who fully submit to Him alone and carry out His commands, without believing they are part of Him.
I guess the big question is Why does God have 'helpers/workers' when He is in full control over every atom? (1061) and is the doer of everything? (817) Because most verses give me the impression He absolutely doesn't need them.
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Peace,
Believing in the angels is not shirk. God instructs us that belief in God is believing in him, his books, his angels and his messengers, and doing good.
However many people here would call angels controllers, which I believe is inaccurate since God is the only one in control,
Malaikat most likely in my understanding means along the lines of workers, as malaakah in Hebrew means along the lines of employment/work/service and we know that they serve God in full, and carry out his tasks. I do not believe the angels are part of God, but rather in my understanding of the scriptures they carry the name of God, much like an employee represents their employer, hence why the revelation comes with God's name. But the angels themselves have only been taught what God taught them and does what he tells them.
If I recall correctly there is no direct mention of the creation of angels, in my understanding in the bible or the Quran, however I would say they are created beings, based at least on surah 35 FaTir, which mentions God made the angels having wings/arms two three or four, he increases in HIS CREATION whatever he wills.
However God how's best,
Belief in angels is not shirk, however, there are some cases of exception, for example the case, clearly evidenced I believe in many new age religions, of people supposedly serving angels, but are in fact serving the jinn, based on (God questioning the angels) was it you that these were serving? They say glory be to you it was not right for us to take allies other than you, nay most of them were serving the Jinn, most of them were believers In them.. I recommend looking up that verse, can't recall the reference.
God possess all things and he is the maalik, possessor/king of everything and to him is the possession/kingdom of the heavens and the earth.
Angels are without doubt true, but shouldn't be worshipped, as they are servants also.
And there is not a god if not Allah
Peace
A Malek is a king. Solomon is referred to as Malek in Quran. Any word containing Melaka means a person who is in charge of something.
Try not to use interpretation acrobatics just to try to confirm your flawed doctrine. Maleikat are beings which are in control even if in service of the phenomenon called God. And they are Maleikat because they deserve to be such, evolved into that superior state of being.
God is not a dictator, doing all without any wide consensus. No, Maleikat can decide at their own discretion.
But for people who are obsessed with "shirk", you may be impairing yourselves in your obsessive thoughts concerning it.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
You?re welcome friend.
Your dear friend is postulating an inherent imperfection with Quranic translations, unfortunately, which Mr good logic and Ms huruf have gracefully summed up.
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609341.msg402626;topicseen#msg402626
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609341.msg402629;topicseen#msg402629
I give a hypothetical situation. If God granted you with powers to control the weather at His behest and you can make it rain or shine wouldn?t that be a great honour for you?
Angels will be bored if they didn?t have anything to do. Why the need to create them? Think about it.
You?re right there are
The same is true for humans on Earth. Why create them if they had nothing they had to do by their own abilities?
Humans have a great mind to use for thinking and reflection. It is powerful.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
@ meem noon
Thank you for sharing the verses brother. So we've got these2443 Do you not see that God drives the clouds, then He gathers them together, then He piles them upon each other, then you see the soft rain coming out of them? And He sends down hail from the sky from the mountains to afflict whomever He wills, and He diverts it from whomever He wills. The brightness of the snow almost blinds the eyes.
3048 God Who sends the winds, so they raise clouds, and He spreads them in the sky as He wishes, then He breaks them into fragments, then you see the rain drops come forth from their midst. Then when He makes them fall on whomever He wills of His servants, they rejoice!
359 And God is the One who sends the winds so it stirs up a cloud, then We drive it to a town that is dead, and We revive with it the land after it had died. Such is the resurrection.
So isn't it perhaps wrong to think verses 2 and 3 of Surah 77 are about angels who stir the clouds and drive the winds? Aren't the above shown verses proof that God is running everything and is in control of everything?
Free-minds translation
771 By the winds which are sent.
772 So the gusts then blow.
773 And all that is scattered about.Clear Quran translation
771 By those unleashed in succession.
772 Storming turbulently.
773 Scattering far and wide.Rashad Khalifa translation
(Angels) dispatched in succession.
To drive the wind.
Stir up clouds.Only Rashad added angels here. I also wonder why these translations differ so much from each other..
I've got the same problem with 1311.. some traditionalists (or people unknowingly influenced by traditions) translate it as angels taking turns in guarding us humans, but doesn't the Quran also teach us that God is our Only Guard and Protector?
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What do you guys think of this article by Rashad Khalifa? (For clarity I don't agree with everything RK says and believe he made mistakes and I also don't reject 2 verses)
https//sites.google.com/site/evidenceofgod/quran/appendices/app10-god-s-usage-of-the-plural-tenseIt sounds like shirk and it looks like he forgot about verse 5016?
"We created the human being, and We know what his soul whispers to him. We are nearer to him than his jugular vein." -
The same is true for humans on Earth. Why create them if they had nothing they had to do by their own abilities?
Humans have a great mind to use for thinking and reflection. It is powerful.
Be well
Qarael AmenuelHuman mind is not powerful.
Can you by using your mind add an inch to your statue?
Can you by using your mind create as much as a fly? -
The land, Air, space, water and fire, are called as Boothas by our ancestors and they believed without these life is no where and its true they are the life supporting elements that shape our earth. We depend on these and earth is setup making these work in harmony, they have a supporting and protecting role for our existence, we rely on them and naturally they become objects of worship for many.
I think there is nothing wrong to believe that there lies some force behind nature similar to our soul behind our body and also our belief of an all encompassing force behind everything called Allah.
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There is a big difference between the role of GOD s creations and GOD.
You and me help /support others even if only family and friends. Does that mean we are GOD s partners?
Because GOD is the only one who provides for every creation!
Similarly other creation like Angels do their duty and help/support other creation.
As long as one believes nothing can help them or support them or provide for them or...Except the original source of life deep in their mind ,the only Ruler,King,Provider,....is GOD Alone through whatever means GOD chooses to do these..
Everything is subservient to HIm,depend on Him,GOD is the source/origin of everything that exist. The only Authority,the only GOD that sustains and runs everything. Without Him everything collapses,ceases to exist,will become nothing..
.Hence we should believe that GOD Alone creates and gives and takes and does whatever He wishes to do with all that He creates.Nothing else is partner /sharik in the creation and only GOD uses His creation how He chooses as his choice is perfect.Believing in His messengers /Angels/books... does not mean we put partners with Him,it just means we believe GOD and heed His message that says beware of serving/worshipping/idolising any of His creation including messengers,Angels...etc. The sole priority,authority is GOD Alone.
My take on it,if that makes sense.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
So by your explanation I literally am God because I am as a person insignificant in existence and all that I do is actually God doing it so in all that what kind of individual am I? I do not even exist but am like a voodoo fool.
I cannot find the logic in this reasoning from tradition. It seems conjectured together by someone obsessed with making gods even if it happens to be just one.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
Peace Alper88, you are right and your friend is wrong. You may want to include
someone else or remove him altogether in your quest to learn Islam."The Messenger believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and
so do the believers. All believe in Allah, His Angels and His Messengers."(Qur?an 2285)
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Brother MOF, I have a joke for you about "voodoo fool""
Knock Knock!
Who's there?
Voodoo.
Voodoo who?
Voodoo you think you are?GOD bless you.
Peace -
Thanks for trying to be funny, good logic.
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Brother,are you afraid to laugh?
MOF. laughter is good not only for the body but also for the soul and Spirit.Here are some more jokes for you
How do you make God laugh? Tell him your plans.
A quip from Robert Frost "Forgive, O Lord, my little jokes on Thee, and I'll forgive Thy great big joke on me."good logic Oh wise and all knowing one, take me to the realm of perfect peace.
MOF If I take you to that realm, it will no longer be peaceful.?May you be ridiculously happy!??or, if you prefer, happily ridiculously .
We also have to stay on topic ( about Angels). "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" .Ha ha ha.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Human mind is not powerful.
Can you by using your mind add an inch to your statue?
Can you by using your mind create as much as a fly?To the contrary, the human mind is the only creative thing we have.
Unfortunately, the materialistic worldview only sees the brain, and not the mind.
The mind is incredibly powerful. There is no real power but the mind.
The mind is our connection to Rabb and all else.
Unfortunately though, our mind is usually polluted by attachment to matter and flesh, so we end up in misery. -
indeed human mind is very powerful ... more than what we can imagine..
by mind , we feel, discover, differentitate, solve problems.
its seems to me the "trust" is actually the ability of understanding things beyond the appearence
this mind is so powerful that sometimes challenge/dare/wish to understand what is not even programmed in mind.. i.e trying to figure out what is the nature of God...
WATER PARABLE its only mind that create ideas from which we control the pressure of water by dams... using this pressure as electricity , store that pressure for supplying water for our needs...
if somebody wish to do something the common criteria is to discover the law behind it.. long lasting wishes of human beings which seems impossible before time is exactly possible now.. with the help of using mind....
example is flying in air was a long lasting dream of humanity... but it appears to them its impossible to fly... becoz a law of gravity is there...
so understand that gravity ,, thanx to wright brother they find a law of anti-gravity... by which human being fullfills his long lasting wish...
there is nothing like discovery... its always the mind that get mature of understanding the principles of things that are already here present with us..
need is the mother of invention
understanding is the key of discovering -
Brother,are you afraid to laugh?
laugh is not a purposeful thing , so anything which have no real purpose is exempted in the dictionary of MOF
joke upon joke...
btw is it true on the day when paradise dwellers look at the people of hell they will be laughing...
i feel strange coz , they were already in a trouble why give them more pain by doing like this yay
they must complaint to nineteen angels that tell to God , people of paradise are laughing on us...and we feel it kinda mocking ..
is it really Good to laugh on someone when he already getting roast like a chicken in firepalace... rotfl