Marrying a Traditionalist Is As Same as Marrying a Polytheist

Amra94

no my sister i did not making it deep..

i ll clarify to you , actually i understand what u ask ? but i did not understand why you ask ? so i ask may b you are thinking me an athiest thats y you ask that in reply 30..

about this al gayab topic its quite interesting specially when u cross check this word in 5335 and 7226
its another matter if you dnt wish to discuss more
have a bless day
God bless you handshake

I didn't ask you if you believe in the unseen. Since we were talking about what it means to be a Muslim, I said don't you have to believe in the existence of God to be considered a Muslim. Atheists don't believe that so not sure how they can be Muslim

But yeah, have a good day handshake

Cerberus

Hey Good Logic,
Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to meditate in some mountain of the atlas, it's a nice and quiet place over there but yeah I'm definetely seeking soberness.

I hope you benefit from your vacations soon, take care handshake

reel

God tells us who the "believers" are

"Mu'mens (believers) are those who have faith in God and His messenger?" (4915)

"?and attain the status of having no doubt whatsoever?" (4915)

"?and Strive with their money and their lives in the cause of God. These are the truthful ones." (4915)

"The true faithful are those whose hearts tremble when GOD is mentioned?" (82)

"?and when His revelations are recited to them, their faith is strengthened?" (82)

"?and they trust in their Lord." (82)

"They uphold the Worship (Salat)?" (83)

"?and from our provisions to them, they give to charity." (83)

"Such are TRULY THE BELIEVERS. They attain high ranks at their Lord, as well as forgiveness and a generous provision." (84)

I don't see how atheists can be considered "believers" we can marry if they reject God's revelations.. aand proudly say there is no god

That means we Quran followers are the only Muslims on this planet.
Atheists aren't different from Sunnis. They are just honest about their view. All Sunnis say they believe in God, but it isn't possible without giving him a chance. All sects are made up of what is in the hadith and not Quran. This means they have faith in Bukhari and friends.We all know orthodox atheists follow the ideologies of the orthodox sunnis, but with just different labels. But what does God have in store for those who did not get a chance to know God because of their environment? We were in that same position once and yet we tried to live a proper life. It is nice that God helped us come to Quran, but what if it did not happen? What would be God's verdict for someone who didn't get a chance to look into his revelations, but led a life similar to what is in the Quran without being unaware about it? And then what about someone who does what the above verses say, but is cruel in the heart?

You sound like you are new to Quran alone. Gradually, as you follow the Book you will learn why we have this kind of opinion.

Peace,

My thoughts mirror yours in this matter. It is one's actions by which one ought to be judged and not the specific labels they attach to themselves or the categories they insist on being placed in. I was having this conversation with my Mum as well some hours ago about how a person's actions define someone and not their label. I know many people and to me, they are Muslim. I would say all my friends are "Muslim" by my understanding because of the way they conduct themselves, although, they might not regard themselves as such. Alas, only Allah knows best what is in the hearts of His creation.

Again, my sentiments entirely. Allah knows best.

Peace.

Yeah, that's true. We can't know what is in a person's heart. Also majority of the people are pressured to follow what is in their environment. They are intentionally kept in the dark. It will not make sense for God to punish them for it especially if they maintained the planet.

Amra94

That means we Quran followers are the only Muslims on this planet.
Atheists aren't different from Sunnis. They are just honest about their view. All Sunnis say they believe in God, but it isn't possible without giving him a chance. All sects are made up of what is in the hadith and not Quran. This means they have faith in Bukhari and friends.We all know orthodox atheists follow the ideologies of the orthodox sunnis, but with just different labels. But what does God have in store for those who did not get a chance to know God because of their environment? We were in that same position once and yet we tried to live a proper life. It is nice that God helped us come to Quran, but what if it did not happen? What would be God's verdict for someone who didn't get a chance to look into his revelations, but led a life similar to what is in the Quran without being unaware about it? And then what about someone who does what the above verses say, but is cruel in the heart?

Those verses tell us who the believers are not who muslims are
Haven't found an example in the Quran of someone who goes against their nature and denies the existence of God but is called a Muslim
At least sunnis acknowledge there's a God

reel

Those verses tell us who the believers are not who muslims are
Haven't found an example in the Quran of someone who goes against their nature and denies the existence of God but is called a Muslim
At least sunnis acknowledge there's a God

Satan acknowledges that too. But think about how Jesus was sent to Jews despite the fact that they never said God didn't exist. They actually went overboard with their religion to please him. That's what makes the general assumption challenging.

Technically, not all of what the atheists say can be considered against the Book.

They question the concept of God living in the "heaven". I remember once atheist Sheikh Richard Dawkins (PBUH) saying that the universe is so complicated in structure that God has to be someone more complex than what the religions say about him. He is actually right. Quran usually preaches panatheism. God has tried to give us a simple description, but due to our limited knowledge on logic and physics, it is hard for us to understand it.
They are made confused by the idea that God is all loving. They question if that is the case then why there is so much sorrow in this world. From Quran, we know that to gain God's love we have to love and maintain his creations. No priests will ever tell you that.
Christian and Muslim priests these days are going all radical in their sermons. I was told that even now in some Sunday sermons, the christian ones have been instigating the people against Muslims, while emphasizing the importance of supporting Israel blindly. That will break anyone's trust. Interestingly, most ex muslims seem to leave Islam because of traumatic religious experiences.

But typically, their questions are the same ones which brought us to Quran alone. Most people are scared to think differently or just don't have the access to the info required to understand how the major religions were corrupted by priests. I am sure God can see that. He is fair.

imrankhawaja

They are made confused by the idea that God is all loving. They question if that is the case then why there is so much sorrow in this world. From Quran, we know that to gain God's love we have to love and maintain his creations. No priests will ever tell you that.

excellent points reel

ok i want to ask a question from you its kinds personal for me because i take advices from all people its my duty to put this on test .. u r the first one.. )

if a creation love God .. and using this word "LOVER of GOD"
is it mean by saying this he claimed to b the one who have sexually intercourse with God ?

actaully what i want to ask can we use this word lover of God.. or its haram to use that word ?

i shocked i used this word once and somebody told me lover of God mean the one who sex with God (astagfar)

just ur opinion i need and forum member can give their opinions too...

Amra94

Satan acknowledges that too. But think about how Jesus was sent to Jews despite the fact that they never said God didn't exist. They actually went overboard with their religion to please him. That's what makes the general assumption challenging.

Technically, not all of what the atheists say can be considered against the Book.

They question the concept of God living in the "heaven". I remember once atheist Sheikh Richard Dawkins (PBUH) saying that the universe is so complicated in structure that God has to be someone more complex than what the religions say about him. He is actually right. Quran usually preaches panatheism. God has tried to give us a simple description, but due to our limited knowledge on logic and physics, it is hard for us to understand it.
They are made confused by the idea that God is all loving. They question if that is the case then why there is so much sorrow in this world. From Quran, we know that to gain God's love we have to love and maintain his creations. No priests will ever tell you that.
Christian and Muslim priests these days are going all radical in their sermons. I was told that even now in some Sunday sermons, the christian ones have been instigating the people against Muslims, while emphasizing the importance of supporting Israel blindly. That will break anyone's trust. Interestingly, most ex muslims seem to leave Islam because of traumatic religious experiences.

But typically, their questions are the same ones which brought us to Quran alone. Most people are scared to think differently or just don't have the access to the info required to understand how the major religions were corrupted by priests. I am sure God can see that. He is fair.

Does it matter if some of what they say isn't against the book. They say they will only believe in God if they have evidence He exists, they will only believe in what they can see. They are full of themselves. Not Muslim.

reel

excellent points reel

ok i want to ask a question from you its kinds personal for me because i take advices from all people its my duty to put this on test .. u r the first one..

if a creation love God .. and using this word "LOVER of GOD"
is it mean by saying this he claimed to b the one who have sexually intercourse with God ?

i shocked i used this word once and somebody told me lover of God mean the one who sex with God (astagfar)

just ur opinion i need and forum member can give their opinions too...

Oh no, two types of love have nothing to do with sex. One is divine love and the other one is platonic. Divine love is connected to loving and serving God and getting their results. But no culture has one definition for it. That's the reason why I had trouble understanding it in my 11th grade humanities class. The concept is much older than the Arabic Quran though.

Does it matter if some of what they say isn't against the book.

Of course it matters and you will always see the signs (both positive and negative) of this.

They say they will only believe in God if they have evidence He exists, they will only believe in what they can see. They are full of themselves. Not Muslim.

There are many different kinds of atheists though. One group is forced to pay attention to worldly matters like employment. They are so burdened that they can't get the time to reflect on God's existence. But they seem to be honest in their intentions towards others. They pretty much do what is in the Quran. Lets call them progressive atheists. The orthodox ones follow "hadiths" and they are usually the ones full of themselves.

Amra94

One group is forced to pay attention to worldly matters like employment. They are so burdened that they can't get the time to reflect on God's existence.

Quran doesn't say that's a valid excuse at all

imrankhawaja

Oh no, two types of love have nothing to do with sex. One is divine love and the other one is platonic. Divine love is connected to loving and serving God and getting their results.

aww you are such a lovely creature of God sister reel ..

God bless you..

reel

Quran doesn't say that's a valid excuse at all

Things will be clear to you.

aww you are such a lovely creature of God sister reel ..

God bless you..

Thanks bro.
God bless you too. )

HP_TECH

Sister Reel,

I have always been fond of you and your judgement, but this time I think you ought to hear out sister Amra's words.

I think she did well by citing all the relevant verses in support of all her statements.

I support and endorse her statements and way of reasoning I find particularly keen and objective.

Most of us would like to excuse many of the people around us who we know in our hearts are not believers and have not submitted.

There is really no in between, sister Amra is accurate.

One thing that I also want to highlight is definitions according to Quran and according to our modern understanding.

Atheists A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

There are many kinds of ka fa ra.
Atheists are among the groups, including hypocrites.

If you deny or reject anything concerning Allah's deen and Truth meaning His existence, The Day of Judgement, His Angels, His Messengers, His Books you are simply a kaf fa ra.

Just like there are different degrees or levels to a believer so for the ka fa ra

There are those who like the definition describes do not believe in the existence of God and less the Hereafter, His Angels, Messengers and Books and they follow assumptions and their own desires not REASON.

The Quran mentions those who think that they only live and die and time is the only thing responsible for their death 4523-24

Have you seen (he) who takes (as) his god his desire and Allah lets him go astray knowingly, and upon his hearing and his heart and puts over his vision a veil? Then who will guide him after Allah? Then will not you receive admonition?
And they say, "Not it (is) but our life (of) the world, we die and we live, and not destroys us except the time." And not for them of that any knowledge; not, they (do) but guess.

Not being certain about the Hereafter is also an association (shirk) 1835-38, 42
And he entered his garden while he (was) unjust to himself. He said, "Not I think that will perish this ever.
And not I think the Hour will occur. And if I am bought back to my Lord, I will surely find better than this (as) a return."
Said to him his companion while he was talking to him, "Do you disbelieve in created you from dust then from a minute quantity of then fashioned you (into) a man?
But as for me, He (is) Allah, my Lord, and not I associate with my Lord anyone.
...And were surrounded his fruits, so he began twisting his hands over what he (had) spent on it, while it (had) collapsed on its trellises, and he said, "Oh! I wish I had not associated with my Lord anyone."
And not was for him a group (to) help him other than Allah, and not was (he) supported.

Also I am always long winded and I do not want to reiterate what I have already stated in another thread.

I believe this particular disagreement we are having has been long settled in this thread
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607143.msg383327#msg383327

imrankhawaja

the one who dnt believe in God words is also kaffir(athiest)

example the one who dnt believe in flat earth=kafir becoz quran say its flat

i me and lot of kaffirs here in this .living world

99.99999 % muslims (traditional and non traditional)
99.99999 % jews christians hindus buddists all of them

probably 0.000001 percent of beleivers left with us in the planet .. bravo who really beleive from their heart that earth is flat..

good_logic

Peace All.

I see. People still judge others when GOD clearly said

22 17 ? Those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Converts ( to any religion), the Christians, the Zoroastrians ( and any name you wish to give to man s religion) and the idol worshippers ( and the Muslims, Hindus, the thousands of religious sects, the disbelievers, the Atheists, etc?) GOD is the one who will judge among them on the day of Resurrection. GOD witnesses all things.?

Fine, some in are my words( in brackets), but surely the rest is quite clear!!! GOD is the one who will judge.
And there lies the problem!!! We want to play "Wakeels" -guardians/take responsibility- for others?

"Wa man yatazakka Fainnama Yatazakka Linafsihi". You stand alone before GOD, cleanse yourself and take care for only yourself. Let all the "kafirs" do the same.
GOD wants you to warn/remind/advise/converse/exchange views/help/give and take...others ,not judge them!!!! Let them make their own decision and understand GOD s message their way,not yours!!!!
GOD gives every one the chance to change until their last day,who are we to cut that chance for them and judge them prematurely?
GOD bless you all.
Peace

huruf

Peace All.

I see. People still judge others when GOD clearly said

22 17 ? Those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Converts ( to any religion), the Christians, the Zoroastrians ( and any name you wish to give to man s religion) and the idol worshippers ( and the Muslims, Hindus, the thousands of religious sects, the disbelievers, the Atheists, etc?) GOD is the one who will judge among them on the day of Resurrection. GOD witnesses all things.?

Fine, some in are my words( in brackets), but surely the rest is quite clear!!! GOD is the one who will judge.
And there lies the problem!!! We want to play "Wakeels" -guardians/take responsibility- for others?

"Wa man yatazakka Fainnama Yatazakka Linafsihi". You stand alone before GOD, cleanse yourself and take care for only yourself. Let all the "kafirs" do the same.
GOD wants you to warn/remind/advise/converse/exchange views/help/give and take...others ,not judge them!!!! Let them make their own decision and understand GOD s message their way,not yours!!!!
GOD gives every one the chance to change until their last day,who are we to cut that chance for them and judge them prematurely?
GOD bless you all.
Peace

That is very right. One may consider ideas, attitudes, acts or ommissions and have and express ideas or views concerning them and eamine them minutely to see what good or bad there is them. But judging persons is going too, too far, and putting oneself on the wrong seat and position. One may judge whether a person is good for oneself and act accordingly, but not judge the person per se. That is not our job nor faculty nor right and God is sufficient does not need any delegates or helpers on that.

Salaam

HP_TECH

Peace All.

I see. People still judge others when GOD clearly said

22 17 ? Those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Converts ( to any religion), the Christians, the Zoroastrians ( and any name you wish to give to man s religion) and the idol worshippers ( and the Muslims, Hindus, the thousands of religious sects, the disbelievers, the Atheists, etc?) GOD is the one who will judge among them on the day of Resurrection. GOD witnesses all things.?

Fine, some in are my words( in brackets), but surely the rest is quite clear!!! GOD is the one who will judge.
And there lies the problem!!! We want to play "Wakeels" -guardians/take responsibility- for others?

"Wa man yatazakka Fainnama Yatazakka Linafsihi". You stand alone before GOD, cleanse yourself and take care for only yourself. Let all the "kafirs" do the same.
GOD wants you to warn/remind/advise/converse/exchange views/help/give and take...others ,not judge them!!!! Let them make their own decision and understand GOD s message their way,not yours!!!!
GOD gives every one the chance to change until their last day,who are we to cut that chance for them and judge them prematurely?
GOD bless you all.
Peace

I think it is rather imperative that we use our judgement to judge and discern right and wrong. As you said we are to advise and warn others, how can you warn one if not by judging the person's actions and situation?

I guess my second question is how does our judging them cut off any of their chances exactly?
Do you have any power against what Allah wills?

People always misinterpret what judging others truly constitutes.

Teaching others to recognize what a believer and a disbeliever is, is not judging and it is not wrong.

good_logic

Peace HP_TECH

This is exactly what went wrong with humanity,quote
Teaching others to recognize what a believer and a disbeliever is, is not judging and it is not wrong.

Only GOD teaches His wisdom. And what we do is divide each other into "believers and disbelievers" without proper knowledge of what GOD is really saying( We ignore the forgive and be patient and offer a friendly hand - with good knowledge/argument and wisdom-)

I think we need to teach ourselves(each individual needs to do that ) to be humble,understanding and never to " label" without proper evidence that takes into consideration many factors including people s intentions.
I suppose if we were in power we will do the same as what has been done throughout history and fight each other???
Well what can I say? But GOD is in control anyway.
The wrong attitude to have brother, labelling people
GOD bless you.
Peace

Faith

are these man made definations? or your wishful thinking

...

this time just give the answer what i ask in yes or no please then we will proceed talk..

imrankhawaja, your arrogance to Amra94 is unacceptable. When I read this, I almost lost it. Thank God I controlled it. I can sense a bit of passive aggressive behaviour in you.

Peace.

huruf

Most conversations about beliefs turn around words. The word God, the word believ, and unmentionned something that is there but not always said, what one claims one believes, which may be quite different form wht one really believes.

For me aperson who claims not to believe in God, and who may claim also that she does not disbelieve in God or not claim the latter part, says so on the assumption of a certain idea of God not onthe thought of the REAL ACTUAL GOD. To brand that person as disbliever when tht person is selfless and devotes herself to helping others and society in general, to be a good mother or father or husband, a good neighbour, etc. does not that person really believe in

Al 3adl
As-salaam
Al-Latif
Al haqq
.
.
.

List any of the names of God, which that person does nto say that believes but who said or unsaid really serves God under those names. That person has the yaqeen, the conviction, the real belief that she must serve those names, that is hse did not do that she would be failing as the human being she is. I cannot, in ll honesty consider such a peron a kafir, but quite the opposite. Intellectually she may not hve elored the meanings of words like God and so on, but on the other hand the misuse of the word God has been so abusive, that it has deterred many intllects from aproaching it with fresh eyes, but on the other hands, the deeds are right on spot and nearing the person not to the word God, but to the Most merciful Himself.

These debtes get inevitble trapped in words. Usuallywhen one trusts a person through a long time and never gets disappointed by that person because she always deserves the trust that is ut in her, then Ithink that person is almost sure a real believer in God, the one that is not a word but all that is, Who is never fram from our hearts and close to us.

On the other hand, how many self claimed believers really behave with the deep conviction of that reveals itselfs in all that one does?

Playing with words, be they God, belief, this or that, is not the same as having conviction in your heart.

Salaam

imrankhawaja

imrankhawaja, your arrogance to Amra94 is unacceptable. When I read this, I almost lost it. Thank God I controlled it. I can sense a bit of passive aggressive behaviour in you.

Peace.

hmm

confused

nope

u know what i m double checking the meanings of arrogance
and my post to my sister amara is not = arrogance

and i plan for a moment to give u a reply full of arrogance
then i changed my mind
becoz God dnt like arrogance

if u are by chance re incarnation then i ll wish u best of luck
handshake