Do you ever feel afraid?

[unknownuser]

Don't worry Imrankwaja!

sun you wipe get what you want if it is what is best for you the infinite creator loves you.

[Comrox]

You are afraid of losing faith in something that tells you about punishment. But if you lose faith in it, then you don't believe what it says anymore, so you don't believe in the punishment in the same way. But if you still fear, then you are still believing what the faith dictates, which means you have NOT lost faith in it.

I disagree with this. Fear is so complex. A lot of agnostics and atheists report fear of punishment in the afterlife after they've rejected faith. Supposedly for them, it can take a long time (months, years) to get rid of the feeling, because it's been drilled into them all their lives. Fear is much more motivating and intense than any other emotion, and that's why it leaves such a lasting impression. Humans naturally want to avoid pain and discomfort, and we'll do whatever it takes to avoid these emotions and situations, resulting in fear. So the presence of fear after proclaimed disbelief doesn't mean they still believe. Unless that's your argument.

We can also fear death. That doesn't mean we stop believing in the notion of death.

[Zulf]

I disagree with this. Fear is so complex. A lot of agnostics and atheists report fear of punishment in the afterlife after they've rejected faith. Supposedly for them, it can take a long time (months, years) to get rid of the feeling, because it's been drilled into them all their lives. Fear is much more motivating and intense than any other emotion, and that's why it leaves such a lasting impression. Humans naturally want to avoid pain and discomfort, and we'll do whatever it takes to avoid these emotions and situations, resulting in fear. So the presence of fear after proclaimed disbelief doesn't mean they still believe. Unless that's your argument.

Bold Blue This means that there are still parts of you that believe, in the subconscious. So, while we logically disbelieve, our subconscious mind is still running programs that were nurtured while believing. Yes, the mind and the brain are indeed very complex, and so also fear.

Also besides having traces of imprints in the mind and brain, it is perhaps even possible that believing/disbelieving can be a gradient, even though it sounds odd and counter-intuitive. This is why I also wonder what 'believe' actually means in the context of the Quran.

The OP said she was afraid of losing faith. I guess that meant that the fear comes from what the current faith (which she is still entertaining/believing in) promises for punishment. Since she is currently believing, she thinks that she will be punished for loss-of-faith once the faith is lost. Whether she THEN, after losing faith, will believe in the punishment, and fear it, is I guess another issue, not so simple, like you pointed out.

We can also fear death. That doesn't mean we stop believing in the notion of death.

Sorry, I didn't quite understand that one.

[unknownuser]

Comrox makes sense I mean alot of people LEAVE because this "eternity punishment" sounds too cruel to them.

[Cerberus]

If you didn't find the answer you were looking for, then keep looking. Don't stop somewhere where all you are doing is trying to get people's approval. Most importantly, don't be a victim. We are all taking the test, and to be a victim is to fail by default.

We are essentially alive to learn to drive, as conscious minds, to drive our thoughts and our body's capabilities to what we deem to be the right or truth.

But what tells us what is right or wrong ? Our consciousness. All the answers are there, if you look for them.
If you follow your consciousness, you cannot go wrong. And you won't fear anything. You fear being wrong because you put your trust in certain ideas that you don't fully agree with. But your consciousness tells you the truth, and you know it makes perfect sense, and you cannot compromise, and if you do so, you'll feel guilty instead.

It does not hand you the answers, but instead lets you look for them, strive for them. To think, beyond wishful thinking, beyond desires, beyond dreams of a happy life, to think like there is nothing more important than figuring out the answers. i.e to think as an independant being, whose ideals are not affected by culture, desires, and social standards.

Now, do you think someone who I described above deserves to go to hell ? Regardless of his/her "religion".

[The_Sardar]

Comrox makes sense I mean alot of people LEAVE because this "eternity punishment" sounds too cruel to them.

Salam dear brother/sister of mankind you might want to see this article. Hope it would help. http//quransmessage.com/articles/is%20the%20punishment%20of%20hell%20eternal%20FM3.htm

[imrankhawaja]

Comrox makes sense I mean alot of people LEAVE because this "eternity punishment" sounds too cruel to them.

there is nothing eternal or everlasting ... not even hell (the presence of lord alone is everlasting)
when criminals complete their sentence for their wrong doings they will come out of hell prison with a state only known by God..

if you see a wordly life a person commits a muder a capital punishement is either hang till death or life sentence to prison..
life sentence does not mean the full life .. its a metaphor because the period is such a long period in which an individual lose his whole life or atleast the best part of his life.. the average age of human let say 60 years

he commit murder and he sentence to prison for life..
in some countires duration is 14 years
in some countires duration is 35 years

let say 35 years he spend in jail and he murder somebody at the age of 20
20 +35 = 55

nobody is(physically) burning him with fire(azab) ..

he is getting burn from his own feeling gennerated by his mind and heart..
heart is making him burn when he see freedom of other people
mind is making him burn what he did with the chance of life
heart and mind both making him burn about his wrong choice...
when he ll come out he ll be labbel as prisoner/criminal even after the completion of sentencing..

thats a azab(punishment) called narr(fire/burning) sun

hell prison will be same as far i think .. specially the idea u can get when an imaginary picture of hell is described in quran that criminlas on that days will be in shackles...

but the physical laws will be obviosly different ..
let say a person like hitler or changees khan who are responsible for millions deaths...

their punihment is like this duration.. 6 million x 35years = hitler sentence

so here the law of physics is applied on all of us , so some of the criminals dnt get punished the way it should be.. but in herafter the punishment time, purpose everthing will be on level full of fairness and equality ...

is it really hard to understand that?

[Jafar]

Bold Blue This means that there are still parts of you that believe, in the subconscious. So, while we logically disbelieve, our subconscious mind is still running programs that were nurtured while believing. Yes, the mind and the brain are indeed very complex, and so also fear.

Fear has the highest priority to be 'focused upon' by the brain, governed by part of the brain dubbed "reptillian brain".
It's a "WARNING" system with SURVIVABILITY as objective.
All living being FEAR DEATH as it's a TREAT to his/her/it SURVIVABILITY.
The fear of death is triggered by the brain...

Only very few (of human) managed to conquer the fear of death, which serves as evidence that 'there is something' outside of the brain that construct human consciousness... some people call it as 'soul'... the fear of death (or other impulse by the brain) can be managed (and disregard) by the soul.

Also besides having traces of imprints in the mind and brain, it is perhaps even possible that believing/disbelieving can be a gradient, even though it sounds odd and counter-intuitive.

Good and Bad is a gradient and multi-faceted.. there are good and bad in everyone.....
Believing and Disbelieving is an absolute.. born from the primitive human mentality of "either with us or against us"..

This is why I also wonder what 'believe' actually means in the context of the Quran.

Believe = You are with US and obeying US and never questioning US.

Where US here is an authorative political figure (Caliph, Leader, King, Prophet etc..)
Samina wa atona, we hear and we obey is mandated / commanded in 2285.
Which prove that the book is not written by God but merely mortal / human trying to get some political power from the masses (common motives), because if the true God 'command' something then EVERYTHING will definitely obey and NOTHING can disobey.

Since she is currently believing, she thinks that she will be punished for loss-of-faith once the faith is lost. Whether she THEN, after losing faith, will believe in the punishment, and fear it, is I guess another issue, not so simple, like you pointed out.

Yup, FEAR is the human emotion commonly manipulated by political figure throughout the ages.
FEAR shall override conscience... I repeat FEAR shall override conscience and common sense..

Example

• For somebody living in 1930s germany, loss of faith in the Fuhrer and Nazi party shall be punishable by death.
• For somebody living in today's north korea, loss of faith in the "Great Leader" shall be punishable by death.
• For somebody living in Ancient Egypt, loss of faith in the Pharaoh, the holy book of the dead, any of the Gods, it's temple and priest shall be punishable by death and shall be tortured by the Gods after death for all eternity.
• For somebody living in Medieval Europe, loss of faith in the bible, (Catholic) Church, it's holiness or it priest shall be punishable by horrible death and shall be tortured by the Devil after death for all eternity.
• For somebody living in Islam influenced society, loss of faith in.......... well just fill the blank yourselves, it follow the above pattern as the objective is the same.

Summary
It takes a great courage to conquer FEAR instilled by society / culture / religion / tradition and put conscience and common sense back to it's respectful place. Most people will not be able to do it, a study said nearly 99.5% will succumbed to fear and disregarding his/her own conscience and common sense.

"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our own minds!"
-- Bob Marley, Redemption Song

Salam / Peace

[reel]

I disagree with this. Fear is so complex. A lot of agnostics and atheists report fear of punishment in the afterlife after they've rejected faith. Supposedly for them, it can take a long time (months, years) to get rid of the feeling, because it's been drilled into them all their lives. Fear is much more motivating and intense than any other emotion, and that's why it leaves such a lasting impression. Humans naturally want to avoid pain and discomfort, and we'll do whatever it takes to avoid these emotions and situations, resulting in fear. So the presence of fear after proclaimed disbelief doesn't mean they still believe. Unless that's your argument.

We can also fear death. That doesn't mean we stop believing in the notion of death.

I would say this can happen to anyone starting from the scratch. The fear is natural.

Some of us felt guilty for leaving those wide range of rituals done in sects. I remember being fearful of facing the truth about hadiths. I thought whether I was the one misunderstanding them. It made me feel guilty and worried. This site came as a blessing, but even then I felt little uneasy about how all my sunni beliefs were getting debunked.

[imrankhawaja]

Samina wa atona, we hear and we obey is mandated / commanded in 2285.
Which prove that the book is not written by God but merely mortal / human trying to get some political power from the masses (common motives), because if the true God 'command' something then EVERYTHING will definitely obey and NOTHING can disobey.

exactly..

the true God commands not to kill anybody , still people do it..(sometimes in millions in one go like nagasaki)
true and logical God command you not to rape/invade/steal somebody people are still doing it...

the true and helpful God command to help everybody but still people are dying from hunger wars and poverty in remote areas like africa , southasia and lot more...(just because the caretakers loves the money more than God commands)

i wonder how come whole system of this planet is disobeying God (according to your logic)
so according to current situation
if the true God 'command' something then EVERYTHING will definitely obey and NOTHING can disobey.

Yup, FEAR is the human emotion commonly manipulated by political figure throughout the ages.
FEAR shall override conscience... I repeat FEAR shall override conscience and common sense..

i repeat fear of true God make you peaceful...
if you fear him you will not rob/steal/rape/invade(as we know he is recording us)

99.5% people who fear God stay away from jails and prisons..

rest of the 0.5% people who are not the slaves of mind and not the slave of fear of God.. can b found in jails and prisons sometimes in society as a dangerous virus that can kill/rob/rape/invade anybody anytime...

now i repeat not fearing of God shall override conscience and common sense..

i wonder on people when they come on final conclusion regarding a true God
and i also wonder on advance creation(malaika) who also dnt know what God alone knows...