How reliable are stories of near death experiences?
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Imran,the best to each one of us is their own gymnastics.
You do yours by all means,as long as it makes sense to you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.brother its an interesting debate .. and i m doing it due to a reason dnt worry whenever you guys stuck i will provide you best explaination that can be logical without doing gymnastic with words.. like the stages of hell make perfect sense.. according to my gymnastic..
coming back to topic..
whats about this verse..
456 Those who have rejected Our signs, We will admit them to a fire. Every time their skins are cooked, We replace them with other skin that they may taste the retribution. God is Noble, Wise
It was thought that the sense of feeling and pain was only dependent on the brain. Recent discoveries prove that there are pain receptors present in the skin without which a person would not be able to feel pain
so this verse could be taken as scientific fact but what do you think when the replacing time is due willl it be like a tea break or a break from torture untill the new skin come into existence?
i mean where the process of new skin will occur probaby on the easiest stage of hell , where the factory of skin generating is going on becoz if you try to replace the skin in mean time it will get burn again, the hell fire is much more stronger than worldy fire ..
i think in 24 hours time the skin must have to replace more than 24 times .. in which hell prisoners can manage to get rest hmm
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shall i tell you something guys ... there is no need of doing gymnastic with words..
Which word below is gymnastics?
What's difficult about a simple/logical NOT statement?1417 sipped it and not neared/almost swallowed it
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Which word below is gymnastics?
What's difficult about a simple/logical NOT statement?1417 sipped it and not neared/almost swallowed it
its about situation..
whatever words you ll come up with it will not change anything in the action what going on in the hell..
like i say .. it appears in one verse they are drinking it with difficulty
on other verse it appears they drink like thirsty camels ( thirsty camels usually drink very fast ) without any difficultymore over if you dig the rabbit hole it will go more deep .. look at this now..
4443-49 Surely, the tree of Bitterness,Will be the food for the sinful.Like hot oil, it will boil in the stomachs.Like the boiling of liquid.Take him and throw him into the midst of hell.Then pour upon his head the retribution of boiling liquid."Taste this; surely you are the noble, the generous!"
what is the purpose of saying this thing in bold?
is it a lie or a joke or a scarsam? or a teasing remark to the poor hell prisoners &
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its about situation..
No let's get back to your contradiction i.e. did not event happen each verse yes/no?
1417 sipped it and not neared/almost swallowed it
5654 so drinking over it from the scalding liquid
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Peace,
Heaven and hell are allegories as per my understanding, therefore
there is no need to bother with the particulars.Heaven = good, great, wonderful, want to end up there pr
Hell = no good, bad, terrible, scary, don't want to end up there &
peace
peace brother ,
exactly i have similar understandings..thats why i opened this thing up becoz when we try to imprint our thoughts in methaphorical approach things did not get along together..
the people who make things up and the words what language use sometimes gives us weird meanings ..
although the correct interpretation as per 37 is only known by God..
only one interpretation of shabbir ahmed in some occassions try to cover this thing up .. rest of the translators flow with the traditional understanding of hell and heavens..(possible this is not from God)
becoz when i was kid i get afraid when i read these type of remarks i dnt know why but even when you punish some criminals in this worldy life you never give them torture that cut up their intestines its better to share these things so that we try to interpret in correct or atleast reasonable way
God bless you
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Peace,
Heaven and hell are allegories as per my understanding, therefore
there is no need to bother with the particulars.Heaven = good, great, wonderful, want to end up there pr
Hell = no good, bad, terrible, scary, don't want to end up there &
peace
Forgive me if i am mistaken brother Hawk99 are you suggesting there is n o afterlife or you reffering to descriptioins? I believe in afterlife Paradise and Hell.
Again forgive me if i misunderstood you human brother. -
No let's get back to your contradiction i.e. did not event happen each verse yes/no?
1417 sipped it and not neared/almost swallowed it
5654 so drinking over it from the scalding liquid
1417 ap per your given data ( sipped it but not neared/almost swallowed it) then what did they do? throw it out like vomiting or it get evaporated in their mouth before reaching to stomach and even if it reach to stomach then see this red
either case drink with difficulty is not = drink like thirsty camel.
5655 they drink it like thirsty camels ( do u know how camels drink ? )
clearly two different actions
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the people who make things up and the words what language use sometimes gives us weird meanings ..
although the correct interpretation as per 37 is only known by God..
God bless you
Peace
In our endeavor for guidance or understanding we sometimes apply
our intellect when it is not needed! Allah gives us the truth, it is for
us to accept it or reject it. Heaven and hell are unseen as you
reference 3/7. Furthermore we can extrapolate from 13/35 that
heaven and hell fit neatly into 3/7. Of course this my understandingForgive me if i am mistaken brother Hawk99 are you suggesting there is n o afterlife or you reffering to descriptioins? I believe in afterlife Paradise and Hell.
Again forgive me if i misunderstood you human brother.Peace Sardar,
I know there is an afterlife as per Quran, I am indeed referring to the
descriptions, for instance, here's an allegory hell is like being beaten
to death over and over again.peace
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either case drink with difficulty is not = drink like thirsty camel.
5655 they drink it like thirsty camels ( do u know how camels drink ? )
clearly two different actions
yes, swallowed it with difficulty; no, same actions i.e. forced to drink a lot.
1417 sipped it and not neared/almost swallowed it
5654 so drinking over it from the scalding liquid
5655 so drinking drink the thirsty camels -
yes, swallowed it with difficulty; no, same actions i.e. forced to drink a lot.
1417 sipped it and not neared/almost swallowed it
5654 so drinking over it from the scalding liquid
5655 so drinking drink the thirsty camelsbrother noon ,
its pretty easy (sipped it and not almost swallowed it ) is not = (drinking drink the thirsty camel)
forced to drink alot is not = not almost swallowed..
not almost swallow the closing understanding as soon he try to swallow he could not swallow it and throw it outside when we dnt llike anything in general routine we throw it outside but almost a tiny amount left in our mouth hmmi did not used like , its edip-layth used it in their translation along with lot of others..
why they used it becoz they know camels will b not in the hell fire rotfl so obviously prisoners will drink it like thirsty camels.. yesNOTE in 14 17 if you read further its appear the same thing with death . and death comes to him from everywhere, but he will not die
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Peace Sardar,
I know there is an afterlife as per Quran, I am indeed referring to the
descriptions, for instance, here's an allegory hell is like being beaten
to death over and over again.peace
Ah okay my mistake and for hell part, That suits for the most wicked cruel evil people on this universe.
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ok lets move this discussion bit further
before that i would like to share the arabian nights
in this book , there is a story in which there is a story in story and then again another stroy in storystroy started from king and queen , queen told strories to king.. and then while telling story there is another stroy in that story.. a perfect cube..of stories
the metaphor of hell is working on same pattern , metaphor upon metaphor ..
hell is metaphor and then another metaphor of camel like drinking ... (metaphor upon metaphor)
let say if there are different stages of hell then different metaphor gives u different situation in which one can drink easily , in one stage one can drink with difficulty and in one its impossible to even drink ..
after that you will see there is not any contradiction
although athiest will ask a question why a merciful God is doing this to his creation ? why this type of situation giving us afraid feelings and sympathy for hell prisoners who are suffering from this torture?
or we have wrong understanding regarding the loving God ?
well God is aware about everything why he doing this if he already know some of them are going through this torture?
nobody really wana go there.. trust me ..
a person hardly spend 100 years let say his crimes of 100 years but punishment like forever is it the justice?and what about the people who are forced to do some crimes(little one) like stealing food for hungry kids ? or mistakenly do sex outside marriage in which they were unable to control the biology of body?
apart from messengers everybody commit little crimes like lie , dishonesty and other small stuff specially one of the sin nobody get away its "backbitting" ?
its really very scary to even spend a minute in hell prison..
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Peace.
Imrankhawaja, are you saying that verses on hell are a metaphor for suffering in this life? If you are, then you are a bit of a Sufi, which is at least I would say maybe correct.
Thanks
peace brother
its although a metaphor but not in this world
God alone knows his secrets
i bring some of the verses which were fearful and terrible upon hell prisoners and make me scared literally so just wanted to talk on these verses and views of people how they see this all
God bless you -
I have read the stories. Majority of them have a few themes common when it comes to those who come to take them, but then let them go.
- We took a covenant
- Do good for everyone in any possible way we can and this should be the purpose
Those are pretty Islamic.
I haven't found any story confirming anything about "rituals". Personality does not change either.
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ok lets move this discussion bit further
before that i would like to share the arabian nights
in this book , there is a story in which there is a story in story and then again another stroy in storystroy started from king and queen , queen told strories to king.. and then while telling story there is another stroy in that story.. a perfect cube..of stories
the metaphor of hell is working on same pattern , metaphor upon metaphor ..
hell is metaphor and then another metaphor of camel like drinking ... (metaphor upon metaphor)
let say if there are different stages of hell then different metaphor gives u different situation in which one can drink easily , in one stage one can drink with difficulty and in one its impossible to even drink ..
after that you will see there is not any contradiction
although athiest will ask a question why a merciful God is doing this to his creation ? why this type of situation giving us afraid feelings and sympathy for hell prisoners who are suffering from this torture?
or we have wrong understanding regarding the loving God ?
well God is aware about everything why he doing this if he already know some of them are going through this torture?
nobody really wana go there.. trust me ..
a person hardly spend 100 years let say his crimes of 100 years but punishment like forever is it the justice?and what about the people who are forced to do some crimes(little one) like stealing food for hungry kids ? or mistakenly do sex outside marriage in which they were unable to control the biology of body?
apart from messengers everybody commit little crimes like lie , dishonesty and other small stuff specially one of the sin nobody get away its "backbitting" ?
its really very scary to even spend a minute in hell prison..
i wonder nobody attempt my questions yet ? its important guys i got the feeling that this type of punishment cant b applied by a merciful God
example i hit u with stick = u hit me with stick = level
if u hit me with sword= transgression
if u hit me with sword and make me alive again = then again hit me with sword and continue it forever = transgression upon transgression with a horrible character of the punisher he shoudnt really do that if u are agree with me then open up from your shell and just once sort this matter out
i feel like believing hell punishment is myth or did not underdtand it
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Peace,
Where does Quran say, someone will go to hell really for a specific kind of sin? Like When you lie you will go to hell?
Quran says hell is forever, except Allah wills (6128, 11107-10. But I think we would quickly start to take it not serious enough, that there is a judgement, if we were not warned over and over again that there is a chance to be in hell forever. We would start to think like in verse 324 'We shall endure the Fire for a few days only.'
Therefore it is so often repeated in Quran that punishment is forever.
We can not understand "eternity". We imagine it like this 100 years, then another 100 years ... 1000 years ... 2000 years and so on without end. But it is something completely different. -
@ missmarple
this thing is not that easy to grasp i know ..
when we using a word time on earth basis we know it cant b forever one day earth will get finish
when we use the word forever time in hereafter we dnt know when its the expiry of hell prison .. and what is the nature of timeall things are understandable like
number of criminal activities = duration of time
heavy weight of crime = heavy punishment
light weight of crime = light punishmentin new year lot of gov bodies released the peaceful prisoners even in some cases life time punishments can revised
so its up to God what extensions he give to the hell dwellers he can increase it as well as decrease it .. God is in controlat this time you know what i m thinking ... why the human took that risk when he knows most of them will finish in hell prison
i never see any person in my life who never commit any wrong doings ?
it seems apart from some prophets and saints and some very lucky people who manage to save themselves from evil will go to paradise and rest of them are just a waste ?
some people claim their theories based on quran that a human is offered for this life and everything showed to him beofre erasing it from memory ? did human being see how most of them will end in hell? if he/she saw it already then what type of intelligence he/she showed by accepting that F...n TEST..?
the description of hell is what drive me crazy and i lost my interest in everything becoz i m also not an angel i commit wrong doings in my life and will continue to commit it ..
like when i get late i lie that it was traffic... if i not lie i ll lose my job... these type of things..and if my boss ask me what another employee was doing ... if i say truth , he will lose his job , if i lie i ll get a wrong doing in my account...
my sister ask me what my nephew was doing in wedding ? i said he was irritating girls , i did a (backbitting) if i didnt tell my sister she ll angry...
whaaaaaaaaat i do ? yay brickwall yay brickwall yay
the set of rules for the justice of God is for everyone and will account on everyone wrongdoings ( although he said he can remove sins if he wish) still risk is on the head ... becoz it depend on the will of God...
