Clearly Hateful postings - why?
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Are you really that dumb, blind and deaf, or is it a new game you are trying to play ?
Paradise is the land where there are Gardens (jannat), i.e. the land of the spiritual conditions where the (intellectual) fruits can grow, i.e. human culture and intelligence (called jinn in Quran) can develop above confusion.
I've never changed what I said about it. Don't provide false claims about what I said because of your lack of understanding.
You are among the people who don't ponder.
As usual, you are in total confusion here I don't believe in your understanding of Quran (as well as you don't believe in mind).
You are really among the people who don't ponder.
Same, you are in total spiritual confusion here.
It is YOU who believes they are fictional tales of the old.
Because you actually don't believe in the teaching of these stories. You believe you are not concerned any more since you believe in Quran.
If you really did understand in the spiritual teaching of these stories, you wouldn't stay in such a spiritual confusion.You believe that you believe, but you actually don't.
Please make the steps to clear your mind or go back to sunnism.
Dunno I'm not Swedish.
handshake
as everybody can see you have nothing else left to say apart from more fallacies its better to finish my discussion
after asking again and again member Anoushirvan is falied to provide his intepretation regarding the questions i asked from him
in this poststarted from post 60 then continue to 69, 71 and 72..
all that time he replied in very non professional way regarding his theories based without any ( EVIDENCE) from quran in hand. which shows by default he dnt have any proof to backup his claims from quran..
so far he have no expaination or any interpretation for any other things like chapter 99 and 101
untill then he provide the eivdence ,discussion from my side will not Go on.. -
What makes you think you know the difference between a trial and punishment? Only Allah knows, you do not. You are currently on par with sectarians claiming that natural disasters are a consequence of the sins of the dead. Allah tells us in the Quran about particular people and what transpired. You are not the Quran personified and neither are you an authorized spokesman for Allah unless you wish to claim that from here on out.
Savage_carrot, the difference between a trial and a punishment is fairly easy to grasp.
Surely only Allah knows, but he also gives us the signs (ayat) to ponder, right ?A trial has never meant to say "the worse it gets, the best it means. No, never.
Look, establishing the deen in Quran, is similar to a revolution as we call today.
You have your local pharaoh, like Mubarak in Egypt or Ben Ali in Tunisia, who spreads mischief on the land.
His people start a revolution to establish freedom and other high principles.But then, different parties have different views of what freedom and a new system means.
Some hypocrites pretend "this is freedom" whereas they have simply blown the power, as Khomeiny did in Iran (the Tudeh party was the real originator of the overthrow of the pharaoh of Iran).During this time, economy is falling down. Most of people are in reality not reality interested in freedom, they want a properous economy and they associate it with freedom.
This is exactly what Quran reminds us with the story of Moses in verse 2.61. His people wanted beans, garlic and cucumber. They were not interested in the water of knowledge that cures their ignorance and would have led them to freedom.Because of this economic pressure and society downfall, parties are in the hurry to find the grounds of a good system. Since they cannot take their time, they elaborate an awkward system.
This is what Quran says by story of the Calf. Calf is ajla in Arabic. It also means haste.All this, savage_carrot, is the trial in Quran Allah tests the determination of the people when they pretend to establish a free system on their land and they will be tested with a bit of "hunger", i.e. with economic pressure.
The broad brushstrokes painting a continent full of diverse countries, peoples and politics...all good. Blessed by Allah no less. It's like you're deliberately living in some sort of bubble where the vast amounts of 'Taghut' on record just didn't happen and by them. Now you're on par with some groupie of the Pharaoh thinking that Moses and his followers were weak and cursed by whatever powers that be, while the Pharoah is strong and the very epitome of the universe blessing him due to the position he held. That Muhammad and his followers were cursed and the idolators were in the right because surely everyone can see they have the power not a rag tag bunch of crazies? Might is right.
You didn't understand what I meant by strong minds vs. weak minds. It is has nothing to do with might or power.
Pharaoh was weak-minded, not strong minded, though he was mighty on his land.
Oppression on the land is the result of weak-minded having the power.You can start by reading this https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master%E2%80%93slave_morality
In particular, I like this "Master morality weighs actions on a scale of good or bad consequences (i.e. classical virtues and vices, consequentialism), unlike slave morality which weighs actions on a scale of good or evil intentions (e.g. Christian virtues and vices, Kantian deontology)".
This is based on Nietzsche philosophy.Quran is not exactly the same as Nietzsche philosophy but is not so far away.
Given time things change, the cycle repeats itself and the waves continue.
Correct, and it is exactly what Quran says the creation comes to its end and a new one is started.
Read verses 11.107 and 11.108 Hell and Paradise are not eternal in the sense we give it classically. They last until the end of the creation. -
Savage_carrot, the difference between a trial and a punishment is fairly easy to grasp.
Surely only Allah knows, but he also gives us the signs (ayat) to ponder, right ?
This isn't exactly sticking one's hand into the fire and getting immediately burnt types of 'fairly-easy-to-grasp-cause-and-effect-hur-dur'. This is dealing with thousands of factors, hundreds of different groups, so many layers yet all Europeans, all Muslims? Strong minds have a duty to dominate weak minds? Because they deserve it. No one should have to debate something like this with you.A trial has never meant to say "the worse it gets, the best it means. No, never.
Are you now taking on the mantle of judging what is and isn't a trial, their nature, depth and duration for everyone else worldwide? good to know.Look, establishing the deen in Quran, is similar to a revolution as we call today.
You have your local pharaoh, like Mubarak in Egypt or Ben Ali in Tunisia, who spreads mischief on the land.
His people start a revolution to establish freedom and other high principles.
But then, different parties have different views of what freedom and a new system means.
Some hypocrites pretend "this is freedom" whereas they have simply blown the power, as Khomeiny did in Iran (the Tudeh party was the real originator of the overthrow of the pharaoh of Iran).
Look, there are leaders spreading mischief all over. Why do they escape your ire?During this time, economy is falling down. Most of people are in reality not reality interested in freedom, they want a properous economy and they associate it with freedom.
This is exactly what Quran reminds us with the story of Moses in verse 2.61. His people wanted beans, garlic and cucumber. They were not interested in the water of knowledge that cures their ignorance and would have led them to freedom.
Because of this economic pressure and society downfall, parties are in the hurry to find the grounds of a good system. Since they cannot take their time, they elaborate an awkward system.
This is what Quran says by story of the Calf. Calf is ajla in Arabic. It also means haste.
On one hand you say they aren't interested in freedom and whatever it means to you, curing their ignorance, then you proceed to say they do want a good system but are hasty. So what do people really want? You can now proceed to shine with your 'I know what it all means appendix 9.1b)Inner wants, desires, natures of people worldwide'.All this, savage_carrot, is the trial in Quran Allah tests the determination of the people when they pretend to establish a free system on their land and they will be tested with a bit of "hunger", i.e. with economic pressure.
Pretend to? And is that all they will be tried with? I suppose you know exactly what, when and where. Worldwide.You didn't understand what I meant by strong minds vs. weak minds. It is has nothing to do with might or power.
Pharaoh was weak-minded, not strong minded, though he was mighty on his land.
Oppression on the land is the result of weak-minded having the power.
You can start by reading this https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master%E2%80%93slave_morality
In particular, I like this "Master morality weighs actions on a scale of good or bad consequences (i.e. classical virtues and vices, consequentialism), unlike slave morality which weighs actions on a scale of good or evil intentions (e.g. Christian virtues and vices, Kantian deontology)".
This is based on Nietzsche philosophy.
Quran is not exactly the same as Nietzsche philosophy but is not so far away.
In Nietzsche's view of master/slave morality, he'd think your revolution to establish the deen is weak so I guess there is no choice but to keel over and die wishing for beans while horses and people continue to be whipped. Sounds familiar. You end up in pretzels precisely because you're taking bits and pieces of stuff, cobbling it together and coming up with some semblance of Frankenstein. Then again you do seem enamored of ?bermenschic concepts so I suppose it was to be expected."You know, the Quran was written (or revealed to if you wish) by a Jew, indeed not a rabbinic Jew, but a Jew anyway. A lot of verses in Quran are taken from esoteric jewish scriptures (midrashim) that even most of Jews don't understand."
You think the quran was written by some Jewish guy somewhere. You think "If Muslims hadn't tried to hide this jewish origin of Quran, and invented stupid stories about Muhammad like slaughtering the Banu Qurayza tribe, or making Jews as disbelievers in the Fatiha, never would have Israel been created in 1947". You want us to accept this? Debate this? Not until Cthulhu rises up in your posts will I consider this time well spent. If you intend on consistently making these claims, they should be in the right section and with evidence.Correct, and it is exactly what Quran says the creation comes to its end and a new one is started.
Read verses 11.107 and 11.108 Hell and Paradise are not eternal in the sense we give it classically. They last until the end of the creation.
Not particularly interested in what you're selling, more interested in where you're selling it. -
This isn't exactly sticking one's hand into the fire and getting immediately burnt types of 'fairly-easy-to-grasp-cause-and-effect-hur-dur'. This is dealing with thousands of factors, hundreds of different groups, so many layers yet all Europeans, all Muslims? Strong minds have a duty to dominate weak minds? Because they deserve it. No one should have to debate something like this with you.
Strong minds have a duty to dominate weak minds, not because weak minds deserve it as you want to say, but because when weak minds have the power, then they spread corruption and oppression on earth.
And the duty of the strong minds is to establish confidence and security of the mind for all the people, including weak minds btw.
When a Harun fails to take this responsibility, a Samiri builds the calf.If no one should debate this with me, then why you and others do it ?
Are you now taking on the mantle of judging what is and isn't a trial, their nature, depth and duration for everyone else worldwide? good to know.
I only judge by what Quran says about a trial, and using reason.
A trial of hundred of centuries doesn't make any sense. This is not a trial any more, this is a punishment.
By the way, when I say Muslim countries are under the punishment of Hell and not under a trial, I don't only refer to the current political situation.
I also refer to the fact that very few significant culturally, spiritually, scientifically came out of them since centuries.
This spiritual, scientific, and cultural weakness since centuries is the root cause of various manifestations like domination by the West, civil war in some of them, failure of the revolutions to establish a true system of freedom in all of them.If you want to wait for 500 years more, then you're on your own.
Look, there are leaders spreading mischief all over. Why do they escape your ire?
Really it's the same actually.
But on the other hand, Muslims are supposed to have received the Book and the knowledge, unlike e.g. North Korea.
They should have pondered and upheld it.
They have a higher responsibility on their shoulders.
But they failed to do that and they deny the clear signs that they failed to do that.This is clearly labelled as disbelieving in Quran, and disbelieving according to Quran has only one outcome.
On one hand you say they aren't interested in freedom and whatever it means to you, curing their ignorance, then you proceed to say they do want a good system but are hasty. So what do people really want? You can now proceed to shine with your 'I know what it all means appendix 9.1b)Inner wants, desires, natures of people worldwide'.
Of course everybody wants a "good system". Mr. Lapalisse wouldn't have said it best.
Of course everybody wants to be "free".Then what is a "good system" ?
What means freedom ?
Hmmm ...?Pretend to? And is that all they will be tried with? I suppose you know exactly what, when and where. Worldwide.
Again, I judge by what Quran says about trial.
In Nietzsche's view of master/slave morality, he'd think your revolution to establish the deen is weak so I guess there is no choice but to keel over and die wishing for beans while horses and people continue to be whipped. Sounds familiar. You end up in pretzels precisely because you're taking bits and pieces of stuff, cobbling it together and coming up with some semblance of Frankenstein. Then again you do seem enamored of ?bermenschic concepts so I suppose it was to be expected.
The quranic believers are ?bermenschen. Converse is not necessary true.
But Nietzsche lived in a Christian country and elaborated all his philosphy toward this context.
Furthermore, I do not feel obliged to take all Nietzsche's philosophy. I keep the right to disagree with him on some points.You clearly failed to understand what master/slave morality means.
Master morality perfectly fits with quranic idea that intention, good or evil, of the act matters less than its consequences, good or evil.
Otherwise Quran wouldn't say that something may appear good while it is actually harmful and vice-versa.
There are a lot more to say, related to 'ibadat, but anyway it's not the biggest issue for me.The real problem for me is that by reading most of the contributions of quran-alone people on this forum, their theological basis to establish the deen of Allah is extremely weak, sorry to have to say that.
For example, there is a section on this forum Islamic constitution, with a subtitle "Islam`s constitution and Politics are inseperable.".
It is obvious for me that a quran-alone revolution on a basis like this would miserably fail.You think the quran was written by some Jewish guy somewhere. You think "If Muslims hadn't tried to hide this jewish origin of Quran, and invented stupid stories about Muhammad like slaughtering the Banu Qurayza tribe, or making Jews as disbelievers in the Fatiha, never would have Israel been created in 1947". You want us to accept this? Debate this? Not until Cthulhu rises up in your posts will I consider this time well spent. If you intend on consistently making these claims, they should be in the right section and with evidence.
I was just answering recurrent anti-israeli stances from some posters.
It's not my problem if people don't want to believe that Quran was written by some Jewish guy.
Not particularly interested in what you're selling, more interested in where you're selling it.
Didn't understand this. Selling what ? I defend my own ideas, and I've no more to sell than other posters.
I admit people can feel horrified by them. -
You are not very clear to understand, you keep shouting and barking, is that you call a rebuttal ?
No, what I really want is a wall that keeps the free world out of those Gogs that spread corruption on Earth.
I don't mind if they spread corruption in their Hell but not by us.But when they manage to climb the wall and spread corruption, yes, we have no other choice.
Please get some book to learn how to read. I didn't mention Saudi Arabia.
Strange that you mention donkeys, because I've never used the word donkeys, but the words apes, pigs and cattle. Sure, donkeys are among cattle, but you probably unconsciously thought about this verse in Quran
625 The example of those who were given the Torah, but then failed to uphold it, is like the donkey that is carrying a cargo of books. Miserable indeed is the example of the people who denied the revelations of God. And God does not guide the wicked people.
So probably you begin to see the light, so it is useful to discuss with me. Because if we replace Torah by Quran
The example of those who were given the Quran, but then failed to uphold it, is like the donkey that is carrying a cargo of books. Miserable indeed is the example of the people who denied the revelations of God. And God does not guide the wicked people.
you will see it perfectly describe the religion of the Muslims.
Again equal in what ?
You clearly don't understand Quran. Quran says that when you do this action, then you get that consequence by immuable law (sunna) of Allah.
Action and reaction, cause and effect.
You follow the path of Satan, you go the Hell.It is like you remove the pillars that sustain the roof, then by God's law, i.e. gravity, the roof falls on you.
It's clear that according to criteria (al-furqan) given in Quran, Muslims, at some point of their history (around 10th century) have started to follow the path of Satan.
Worse they have been following the Taghut, i.e. Satan that tries to impersonate Allah.
As a consequence of the sunna of Allah they have found themselves weak.On the other hand, Europeans have rejected the path of Taghut, since two centuries, except during WWI and WWII.
As a consequence of the sunna of Allah, they have found themselves strong, even if they don't uphold the Quran.
As soon as they tried to follow the path of the Taghut, they also felt in Hell, during WWI and WWII.Whilst you type away and waste everyone's time - you have clearly stated that
the Quran is invented by a Jewish man (No Proof)
Muslims are weak minded (No Proof)
Muslims deserve to be invaded (No Proof)
Muslims are animals - you call them pigs (No Proof)
You love Israel and Europe as chosen people of God (No Proof)And as you like to type, you have typed a lot of racist and contentious Zionist and Evangelical information.
I am surprised that you waste your own time and other people's time with your racism and hatred.
It must be really sad to be full of the amount of hate that you are trying to express.
Or maybe you deliberately chose this Free Minds forum over the other Jehovah sect that uses this in their URL? LOL
May God fill you with love and displace some of that hatred you seem to revel in.
Carry on wasting your own time and of those who think you are other than a Zionist-Evangelical troll of the alt-right (del) variety.
I am fasting and praising God and getting an immense amount of benefit.
Ed -
Peace all,
Sorry for being a smart-a$$, but I think it would be wise for people in this thread to take the emotional levels down a notch. Anyone who really wants answers and a debate should perhaps consider keeping it simple, to the topic, and not quote each separate sentence in the adversary's post and reply with an equally small response/question, making each post frustratingly fragmented and deviating and thus rendering the chances for proper responses highly unlikely. Stick to one issue and finish it off when it leads no further.If Satan would have been a separate spirit being, then he would have been sitting laughing at the emotional bickering that is going on here.
Reset!
Cheers