Something thought provoking

virginia

Wow now thats interesting! if you got more please keep them coming.

Peace The Sardar

I am not versed in the Germanic branch of Indoeuropean at all so i prefered to copy paste you the best synopsis I got from what I've being reading about the origins of the English word "god". In fact, this is the most accepted theory

Oxford English Dictionary

"god (gd). Also 3-4 godd. [Com. Teut. OE. god (masc. in sing.; pl. godu, godo neut., godas masc.) corresponds to OFris., OS., Du. god masc., OHG. got, cot (MHG. got, mod.Ger. gott) masc., ON. go?, gu? neut. and masc., pl. go?, gu? neut. (later Icel. pl. gu?ir masc.; Sw., Da. gud), Goth. gu?(masc. in sing.; pl. gu?a, guda neut.). The Goth. and ON. words always follow the neuter declension, though when used in the Christian sense they are syntactically masc. The OTeut. type is therefore *guom neut., the adoption of the masculine concord being presumably due to the Christian use of the word. The neuter sb., in its original heathen use, would answer rather to L. numen than to L. deus. Another approximate equivalent of deus in OTeut. was *ansu-z (Goth. in latinized pl. form anses, ON. ss, OE. ?s- in personal names, ?sa genit. pl.); but this seems to have been applied only to the higher deities of the native pantheon, never to foreign gods; and it never came into Christian use.

The ulterior etymology is disputed. Apart from the unlikely hypothesis of adoption from some foreign tongue, the OTeut. *gubom implies as its pre-Teut. type either *ghudho-m or *ghut?-m. The former does not appear to admit of explanation; but the latter would represent the neut. of the passive pple. of a root *gheu-. There are two Aryan roots of the required form (both *glheu, with palatal aspirate) one meaning ?to invoke? (Skr. h&#363, the other ?to pour, to offer sacrifice? (Skr. hu, Gr. , OE. y?otan YETE v.). Hence *glhut?-m has been variously interpreted as ?what is invoked? (cf. Skr. puru-hta ?much-invoked?, an epithet of Indra) and as ?what is worshipped by sacrifice? (cf. Skr. hut?, which occurs in the sense ?sacrificed to? as well as in that of ?offered in sacrifice?). Either of these conjectures is fairly plausible, as they both yield a sense practically coincident with the most obvious definition deducible from the actual use of the word, ?an object of worship?.

Some scholars, accepting the derivation from the root *glheu- to pour, have supposed the etymological sense to be ?molten image? (= Gr. &#957, but the assumed development of meaning seems very unlikely.

From the Oxford English Dictionary.

I dont know very much about the particular stem, but I think that it is obvious why gheu(&#601? (invoke, call) and other root *ged- (unite, join) come from the same seme since when you ?call?, people get ?united? and ?joined? and ?gathered?. This *ged- also became ?gut? in German and ?good? in English. You still use it in the English words "gather" or "together".

In any case, I could only give a proper linguistic approach myself about the Greek "theos" and latin "deus", but I think your issue is about the English "god".

Also you must know there are other approaches which reject the above widely accepted etymology ( check http//search.proquest.com/openview/168623f5623c2cb08baa85e718377752/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=1817105 ), although personally I dont see any problem in the acceptance of no laryngeal development.

Note Proto Indoeuropean is a family of languages that consists on more than 100 languages (from German and Latin to Sanskrit or Armenian). These languages are supposed to come from a language (Indieuropean) talked around 4500 BC in Central Asia and spread until Europe in several migration waves. Those people had several names but the general one is Aryans. Take into account that the PIE reconstruction project is not only a project held by linguistics, it is a huge attempt that counts on genetics, archaeology, anthropology and geology)

The_Sardar

Peace The Sardar

I am not versed in the Germanic branch of Indoeuropean at all so i prefered to copy paste you the best synopsis I got from what I've being reading about the origins of the English word "god". In fact, this is the most accepted theory

From the Oxford English Dictionary.

I dont know very much about the particular stem, but I think that it is obvious why gheu(&#601? (invoke, call) and other root *ged- (unite, join) come from the same seme since when you ?call?, people get ?united? and ?joined? and ?gathered?. This *ged- also became ?gut? in German and ?good? in English. You still use it in the English words "gather" or "together".

In any case, I could only give a proper linguistic approach myself about the Greek "theos" and latin "deus", but I think your issue is about the English "god".

Also you must know there are other approaches which reject the above widely accepted etymology ( check http//search.proquest.com/openview/168623f5623c2cb08baa85e718377752/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=1817105 ), although personally I dont see any problem in the acceptance of no laryngeal development.

Note Proto Indoeuropean is a family of languages that consists on more than 100 languages (from German and Latin to Sanskrit or Armenian). These languages are supposed to come from a language (Indieuropean) talked around 4500 BC in Central Asia and spread until Europe in several migration waves. Those people had several names but the general one is Aryans. Take into account that the PIE reconstruction project is not only a project held by linguistics, it is a huge attempt that counts on genetics, archaeology, anthropology and geology)

Forgive me brother of mankind Aries but im bit lost in this explaination, apoligizes if im ignorant (if i say it correctly) because unfortunatley im no linguist expert.

The_Sardar

Im not quite sure what this means. Our Lord is above all so Allah (SWT) does not a gender, The Gracious created the genders.

Red Meant to say Our Lord is above all so Allah (SWT) does not need a gender.

The_Sardar

Salamun Aleykum everyone. It seems i crossed paths with the same quranist in a different facebook group who is against hadiths.

He started a disscussion, he said

No where in Qur'an does Allah refer to himself by the name/title g-o-d.
No where in the Taurat does Allah refer to Himself by the name/title g-o-d.
g-o-d is a heathen deity, not to be associated with Allah.

The he posted 2 pictures, one is who we are familiar with

https//scontent.fgse1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19990546_10209600436432161_7902989414026853755_n.jpg?oh=ae4d99dd7c7f3577c933e85063713249&oe=5A08E538

Then second and last

https//scontent.fgse1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19260682_10209600438872222_7977978248006816530_n.jpg?oh=0581c9306c00dd5665e644750b42c425&oe=59CB13C3

Then people started to respond him

One of them said

The Most Wise will be the judge in the hereafter..

By the way, if the word "Allah" will be translated into English, it becomes "God"

Then the quranist responded Allah" is substituted with "G-d", not translated.

Then another of the critics said My opinion
Cant really see the problem if anyone uses God to describe The Almighty as it is commonly used. Am sure Allah Swt knows what a person means and will judge them accordingly. Nobody uses the word for any other purpose for there to be a clash with any other deities mentioned in manmade lexicons.

As the word is used in english and even the first line of the lexicon confirms it is same word in old and new english then the English definition in the English dictionary would be adequate.
Then he posted a picture

https//scontent.fgse1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19961317_1871558613163171_311479923668105622_n.jpg?oh=d1be7575703ec2099b33256886e150c9&oe=5A075292

The quranist responded Notice in the definition you posted it says, "the g-d of Islam", but Qur'an says, Allah is Rabb of the all the WORLDS. You completely ignored the much deeper etymology I posted. I find it interesting that Muhammad's name is not "translated". It appears that many Muslims use "g-d" in order to get validation from the west.

Then another critic said No i think ur wrong god by english translation means the one supreme being

Then lastly quranist said "g-d" passed into English from German, after the German people converted to Christianity. In their native religion "G-d" was the German's ancestral deity Gudan (Odin, Wodin). The Germans replaced YHWH (Allah) of Taurat, the Rabb of Adam, Nuh, the family of Ibrahim, and the family of Imran (333), with g-d, the deified ancestors of the German/Teutonic people, Geats, Goths, etc.

The Christians have been fooled into serving a pagan deity, and Muslims seeking the acceptance of Christians, are blindly following them down the crooked path.

1124, Bismillah

And there is none like unto Him.

2120, Bismillah

And never will be pleased with you the Jews and the Christians until you follow their religion. Say, "Indeed, (the) Guidance (of) Allah, it (is) the Guidance." And if you follow their desires after what has come to you of the knowledge, not for you from Allah any protector and not any helper.

This discussion took place in The Quran Only - No hadiths facebook group. If you wanna check this debate out then go ahead.

https//www.facebook.com/groups/1235348423158333/

good_logic

Still ,nothing new here.
Look brother,it is simple, GOD/Allah/Dieu/....etc has no gender,no race ,no particular name. Call Him(No gender) by whatever you want,so long as your intention is the Creator,the only deity.
Do you really think He is called "Allah" and you cannot translate Allah? That means you are restricting GOD to have a name like His creations?
This is total nonsense,debating a name for the One who has no name,no race and no gender!!!!. All the names(Good and what describes His attributes) are His!!!!!
GOD bless you.
Peace.

The_Sardar

Still ,nothing new here.
Look brother,it is simple, GOD/Allah/Dieu/....etc has no gender,no race ,no particular name. Call Him(No gender) by whatever you want,so long as your intention is the Creator,the only deity.
Do you really think He is called "Allah" and you cannot translate Allah? That means you are restricting GOD to have a name like His creations?
This is total nonsense,debating a name for the One who has no name,no race and no gender!!!!. All the names(Good and what describes His attributes) are His!!!!!
GOD bless you.
Peace.

I agree with you, Our Lord is not restrictied by anything, by the way when the quranist said No where in Qur'an does Allah refer to himself by the name/title g-o-d.

I dont think that he is correct about that 2163 Wa-ilahukum ilahun wahidunla ilaha illa huwa alrrahmanualrraheemu

Your god is but One god, there is no god but He, the Gracious the Compassionate.
And when he mentioned the arabic variation for word Torah. Im not sure if that it is Torah.

Ta-Waw-Ra = For dara, with the change of ta with dal To go round, flow, ran, repeat (an action).
According to Azhari the word is actually Ta'ara, where Hamza is omitted meaning space of time, a time, one time. Return/repeat time after time.
Messenger between people or that goes about between lovers.
Apply constantly.

tarah n.f. 1769, 2055

The root of "torah" is disputed, apparently, hence the root below.

Waw-Ra-Ya = made/produce fire, allude to equivocally, ambiguously, meant such a thing pretended another, hide/conceal/cover, behind a thing covering/concealing, aider/follower, The Book of The Law (revealed to Moses).

Tawrat = It is the name given to the Book of Moses. It's correct rendering is the Hebrew word Torah which is derived from wara meaning he concealed. Is so called because in its pristine purity, reading it and acting upon its teachings kindled in the heart the fire of Divine Love.
Also known as the Pentatauch, The Old Testament.

Lane's Lexicon, Volume 1, page 359 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=twr

Plus there was a forum post by New Born. https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609253.0

Also dont forget brother/sister Aries post in this

Mr. Fiske published his work in 1886, and since then the Indoeuropean and Proto Indoeuropean reconstruction project has gone through a long way and has developed immensely.

There is a proto Indo-European root

Quote
?dh
Inner Light and Meditation

Once the Indo-Europeans had used the consonant d, symbol of light, to denote the divine (divya) and god (deva), they then used the d to mean ?to bear light ? within the human soul and they consequently formed the root dh ?to think in contemplation? or ?contemplative thinking?.

From dh came the word dhti ?devotion?, ?prayer? or ?meditation?, which, in Latin, corresponds to the word fides ?faith? ?

(Please, note that the development of indoeuropean dh > latin f is very common.

From "Comparative etymological Dictionary of classical Indo-European languages Indo-European - Sanskrit - Greek - Latin", Rendich Franco, p. 88 (2014)

From this, the root for Greek theos (&#962 and latin deus have been recognised

Quote
dyeu-

To shine (and in many derivatives, "sky, heaven, god&quot. Zero-grades *dyu and *diw.
Derivatives include Tuesday, divine, jovial, Jupiter, diary, dismal, journey, and psychedelic.

Basic form *dyeu, Jove, the name of the god of the bright sky, head of the Indo-European pantheon.
Jove, jovial; apojove, perijove, Sangiovese, from Latin Iovis, Jupiter, or Iov, stem of Iuppiter, Jupiter.
July, from Latin Ilius, "descended from Jupiter" (name of a Roman gens), from derivative *iou-il.
Vocative compound *dyeu-pter, "O father Jove" (*pter, father; see pter-). Jupiter, from Latin Iuppiter, Ipiter, head of the Roman pantheon.
Dione, Zeus; dianthus, Dioscuri, from Greek Zeus (genitive Dios), Zeus.
Noun *deiwos, god, formed by e-insertion to the zero-grade *diw and suffixation of (accented) -o.
Tiu, Tuesday, from Old English Tw (genitive Twes), god of war and sky;
Tyr, from Old Norse Tr, sky god. Both a and b from Germanic *Twaz.
deism, deity, joss; adieu, adios, deific, deus ex machina, from Latin deus, god.
diva, divine, from Latin dvus, divine, god.
Dis, Dives, from Latin dves, rich (< "fortunate, blessed, divine&quot.
Suffixed zero-grade form *diw-yo, heavenly. Diana, from Latin Dina, moon goddess.
deva, Devi; deodar, Devanagari, from Sanskrit deva, god, and deva, divine.
Asmodeus, from Avestan dauua, spirit, demon.
Variant *dy (< *dye&#8209 dial, diary, diet2, dismal, diurnal, journal, journey; adjourn, ajour?, circadian, meridian, postmeridian, quotidian, sojourn, from Latin dis, day.
Variant *dei. psychedelic, adelgid, from Greek dlos (< *deyalos), clear.

From https//www.ahdictionary.com/word/indoeurop.html#IR031900

And also the Germanic Gott and English God

Quote

gheu(&#601-
To call, invoke. Oldest form *gheu(h2/3), becoming *gheu(h2/3) in centum languages. Suffixed zero-grade form *ghu-to, "the invoked," god.

god, from Old English god, god;
giddy, from Old English gydig, gidig, possessed, insane, from Germanic *gud-iga, possessed by a god;
g?tterd?mmerung, from Old High German got, god. a-c all from Germanic *gudam, god.

From https//www.ahdictionary.com/word/indoeurop.html#IR031900

This root gheu(&#601- is closely related to the root *ged-

Quote
*ged-
to join, to unite
Lith. guodas, Ltv. gods, Eng. gd/good, Gm. guot/gut, Goth. g?s; gds, ON g?r, Skr. (gadhya), OCS god, Russ. (god), Polish gody, Toch. ktk/ktk

from https//en.wiktionary.org/wiki/AppendixList_of_Proto-Indo-European_roots/g%CA%B0

Oxford English Dictionary

"god (gd). Also 3-4 godd. [Com. Teut. OE. god (masc. in sing.; pl. godu, godo neut., godas masc.) corresponds to OFris., OS., Du. god masc., OHG. got, cot (MHG. got, mod.Ger. gott) masc., ON. go?, gu? neut. and masc., pl. go?, gu? neut. (later Icel. pl. gu?ir masc.; Sw., Da. gud), Goth. gu?(masc. in sing.; pl. gu?a, guda neut.). The Goth. and ON. words always follow the neuter declension, though when used in the Christian sense they are syntactically masc. The OTeut. type is therefore *guom neut., the adoption of the masculine concord being presumably due to the Christian use of the word. The neuter sb., in its original heathen use, would answer rather to L. numen than to L. deus. Another approximate equivalent of deus in OTeut. was *ansu-z (Goth. in latinized pl. form anses, ON. ss, OE. ?s- in personal names, ?sa genit. pl.); but this seems to have been applied only to the higher deities of the native pantheon, never to foreign gods; and it never came into Christian use.

The ulterior etymology is disputed. Apart from the unlikely hypothesis of adoption from some foreign tongue, the OTeut. *gubom implies as its pre-Teut. type either *ghudho-m or *ghut?-m. The former does not appear to admit of explanation; but the latter would represent the neut. of the passive pple. of a root *gheu-. There are two Aryan roots of the required form (both *glheu, with palatal aspirate) one meaning ?to invoke? (Skr. h&#363, the other ?to pour, to offer sacrifice? (Skr. hu, Gr. , OE. y?otan YETE v.). Hence *glhut?-m has been variously interpreted as ?what is invoked? (cf. Skr. puru-hta ?much-invoked?, an epithet of Indra) and as ?what is worshipped by sacrifice? (cf. Skr. hut?, which occurs in the sense ?sacrificed to? as well as in that of ?offered in sacrifice?). Either of these conjectures is fairly plausible, as they both yield a sense practically coincident with the most obvious definition deducible from the actual use of the word, ?an object of worship?.

Some scholars, accepting the derivation from the root *glheu- to pour, have supposed the etymological sense to be ?molten image? (= Gr. &#957, but the assumed development of meaning seems very unlikely.

From the Oxford English Dictionary.

I dont know very much about the particular stem, but I think that it is obvious why gheu(&#601? (invoke, call) and other root *ged- (unite, join) come from the same seme since when you ?call?, people get ?united? and ?joined? and ?gathered?. This *ged- also became ?gut? in German and ?good? in English. You still use it in the English words "gather" or "together".

In any case, I could only give a proper linguistic approach myself about the Greek "theos" and latin "deus", but I think your issue is about the English "god".

Also you must know there are other approaches which reject the above widely accepted etymology ( check http//search.proquest.com/openview/168623f5623c2cb08baa85e718377752/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=1817105 ), although personally I dont see any problem in the acceptance of no laryngeal development.

Note Proto Indoeuropean is a family of languages that consists on more than 100 languages (from German and Latin to Sanskrit or Armenian). These languages are supposed to come from a language (Indieuropean) talked around 4500 BC in Central Asia and spread until Europe in several migration waves. Those people had several names but the general one is Aryans. Take into account that the PIE reconstruction project is not only a project held by linguistics, it is a huge attempt that counts on genetics, archaeology, anthropology and g
eology)

The_Sardar

One thing i hope that calling Allah (SWT), Our Beloved Divine Infinite Creator, God is not mocking our Lord. I rather burn myself than mock him because i love and fear Him (Fearing breaking his divine laws)

virginia

17110

Say "Call on God or call on the Almighty; by whichever you call on, to Him are the best names."

sun

The_Sardar

17110

Say "Call on God or call on the Almighty; by whichever you call on, to Him are the best names."

sun

I fell sometimes like a complete bellend. Thank you Aries.

imrankhawaja

peace brother sardar,

perhaps it help understanding the nature of names and attributes

1240 "What you serve besides Him are nothing but names which you have fabricated you and your fathers. God did not send down any authority for such. The judgment is for none but God. He ordered that none be served but He. That is the true system, but most of the people do not know."

5922-24 He is God; there is no other god besides Him. Knower of all secrets and declarations. He is the Almighty, the Merciful.He is God; there is no other god besides Him. The King, the Holy, the Peace, the Faithful, the Supreme, the Noble, the Powerful, the Dignified. God be glorified; far above what they set up.He is God; the Creator, the Initiator, the Designer. To Him belong the most beautiful names. Glorifying Him is everything in the heavens and the earth. He is the Noble, the Wise.

God bless you

something similar i already posted my brother..

The_Sardar

something similar i already posted my brother..

And here are verses which help clear some mess in my mind.

Wahuwa allathee fee alssama-iilahun wafee al-ardi ilahun wahuwa alhakeemualAAaleemu
4384 And He is the One who is a god in the heaven and a god on the earth. And He is the Wise, the Knowledgeable.

Innama ilahukumu Allahuallathee la ilaha illa huwa wasiAAakulla shay-in AAilman
2098 Your god is God; whom there is no god but He. His knowledge encompasses all things.

Waqala Allahu latattakhithoo ilahayni ithnayni innama huwailahun wahidun fa-iyyaya fairhabooni
1651 And God said "Do not take two gods, there is only One god, so it is Me that you shall reverence."