What made you decide to leave sectarian Islam?
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What made you decide to leave sectarian Islam?
My story in short Once a day i was praying in a mosque. Before the prayer, i was talking with someone. While talking, i asked him something like "do you know this hadith". He responded, or i heard him saying, "sorry, no i dont follow ahadith".
In my mind i was like, how can he follow Islam without following the ahadith. I kept silence, and we both went our own way. So when i was back at home, i started searching for "no-hadith" Islam, on the internet.
I saw Rashad Khalifa, and he had some really good points, like following God alone, Quran alone etc. So that's when i started thinking about leaving sectarian Islam. I was a salafi, the most orthodox and extreme form of sectarian Islam.After a while, i started noticing that also Rashad Khalifa didn't speak 100% the truth. So i started listening more to Edip Yuksel. Edip said that prayer was 3 times a day etc., and i also was thinking that it was 3 times a day, and not 5 times, like Rashad said etc.
But then as well Edip did say some things, that i don't agree on. And that's when i started searching on my own to the truth. I stopped following people, and so called teachers etc.
I started believing in Quranic Islam. And while reading the Quran more and more, i started reading about the Bible. So once, on a day, God showed me a person, who made me think, to start reading the Bible, and the Quran. So i started reading them both. While reading, i started seeing the big picture. And i now believe in both of them. I am still learning Hebrew, Greek and Arabic.
Everything made sense, the Catholics, the Sunnis, the Pharisees, etc.
I don't follow any groups anymore. And i don't follow a teacher. The Books are my teacher, and God alone can guide me. So yeah, i think that i am now on the right track. I still have to learn a lot, but at least God saved me from those sectarian groups, and teached me that it is important to learn on your own and keep praying for the truth.
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What made you decide to leave sectarian Islam?
I never 'leave' sectarian Islam .. because if I do so I'm still having a fanatical sectarian mindset..
Instead I abandoned my self identification to only ONE sect / religion or in other words my exclusivity to only ONE sect /religion.It's the same as I never leave Democrat party but I abandoned my exclusivity of self identification to ONLY Democrat party thus I can also join Republics, Green, Labor, Liberal, Conservative, Progressive, Unionist and what have you...
Now if the question is more of what convinces you that the teachings of Islam (Specifically Sunniism) is not 100% true?
For me it's very simple, The Shahada...
Putting myself in the perspective of Muhammad, what would my Shahada be?
I bear testify that I am the prophet of God?And after that I found thousands of other 'insane' and 'illogical' ideas within my own belief...
I don't follow any groups anymore. And i don't follow a teacher. The Books are my teacher, and God alone can guide me. So yeah, i think that i am now on the right track. I still have to learn a lot, but at least God saved me from those sectarian groups, and teached me that it is important to learn on your own and keep praying for the truth.
God will definitely teach you... if you have enough humility....
Why humility is important?Because human learn through 'mistakes'... it's part of the learning process...
If you don't have enough humility to realize and admit your own mistakes..
You will never identify your mistakes..
Which resulted in you will never learn... -
Your reasoning is unsound, Jafar. Of course you should leave something which is unsound and not be a part of its doctrine. I understand your point with how you think, but the solution isn't to be supportive of something which is incorrect.
You are quick to judge... something which is "sound" can be "unsound".
And something which initially "unsound" / "confusing" can turn out to be very sound..I know the way you think is that you do not differentiate yourself through identity, but the proper solution is to not have any identity at all, not join all identities there are.
The objective is actually to be not 'fanatically' bind to only one identity / mindset..
"Quran Alone" can be sound at one thing and unsound at another...
"Sunnis" can be unsound at one thing yet sound at another.So does other group (Judaist, Catholic, Orthodox, Shiites, Alevites, Shintos, Mahayanas) and hundreds of other groups around the globe.
Now here's the drawback of "distancing yourselves" or even "shunning" from all identities...
Human mindset always think within "US" vs "THEM" context.. that's how the human brain developed over generations in order to ensure survivability. Also called the "Friend" or "Foe" detection capability within human brain. (and also other species brain)
If "US" then it's a friend no need to be alerted and you need to support him/her up in any context.
If "THEM" then it's an enemy, put everything on high alert, as the object can be dangerous to your survival, you need to crush him/her up in any context to remove the threat.Thus rather than thinking that all identities are "THEM" I rather regard all of them as "US".
Trying to understand their point of view and also dig up on "WHY" they came up with such thought in the first place. What's the background? What's the (hi)story?This is a dialog on interview broadcasted by US TV station.
A "Who do you support during the past election"
B "Definitely Donald Trump"
A "And why is that?"
B "Because I hate Obama"
A "Why you hate Obama?"
B "Because he's a Muslin".It's no typo there, that's what she said "Muslin"...
In the end, there's always going to be people who are wrong and people who are right, but the solution is to be compassionate about those who are deluded into being wrong.
All people are right and wrong at the same time..
In math You are thinking in "Boolean" mindset.. either somebody is 100% correct or 0% correct (incorrect).
Reality is far more complicated than that... and something which is "correct" is also depending on the context..Yet the #1 challenges is always to detect wrong WITHIN YOURSELVES...
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What made me leave sectarian Islam ?
Answer
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antisemitism. Muslims in my family, even those inclined to sufism, kept saying that the Jews were cursed by God in Qur'an, that they deserved what happened to them during WWII.
The funniest part, of course, is then when I discovered later that Qur'an couldn't have been written by none than a scholar Jew (even if he is called Muhammad). -
Same understanding of Qur'an and Sunnah by Muslims than terrorist groups. There is no truly divergence in understanding Qur'an and Sunnah, the only divergence is the respective weight of some events or some verses or some hadiths compared to others.
Because of this shared understanding, Muslim religious scholars are not able to oppose a real counter-pitch to terrorist discourse.
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I guess the traditionalist interpretation of God just didn't appeal to me. For most of my life, I fasted Ramadan, prayed 5 times daily and at the age of 11 I could read the Qur'an in Arabic even though I didn't understand Arabic. I had my issues with traditionalist Islam, but like the so called moderate Muslims, I tried to ignore these controversial aspects of traditionalist Islam and focus on neutral aspects particularly rituals
Then one day, I was browsing the internet when I came about a forum where two Muslims were debating the validity of Hadith for Islamic law. I was not intrigued at first, so I didn't even bother to read. Like every traditionalists, I just couldn't fathom the possibility of Islam without hadith. At this point, I knew nothing about hadith. I never read the Qur'an in English and aside listening to hadith narrated at traditionalist gatherings or discussion, I never accessed hadith books. In fact, all I knew about hadith at the time was Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.
So, it is obvious why I did not even give the idea of Qur'an alone a thought.Nearly six months later on, I stumbled upon that same debate online again. This time, I decided to read through it out of curiosity. At this point, I had started reading the hadith, it was a point of my life where I wanted to uphold and apply the teachings of hadith more seriously while downplaying the controversial aspect of traditional Islam like gender segregation, face-veil, criminal justice system, etc.
As I read this debate on the forum, I found the proponent of Hadith rejection winning my heart with a more liberal, rational and moral interpretation of Islam. I would pick a translated Qur'an to verify his references and I was impressed.It is often said by traditionalists that Qur'an alone Muslims just seek an easier version of Islam with less prohibitions but this is not true for me. Traditionalist Islam just didn't appeal to my conscience. I would often find myself questioning the mercy and justice in amputating a thief for stealing a bag of rice or hygiene in the hem of a woman's dress dragging on soil.
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Peace All.
"Controversial aspects" in life never cease . As we keep leaving one thing we enter another with as much controversies as the last one.
The learning process can take us both ways towards GOD or away from GOD. This is the basic and important matter.
Controversies about the unseen/what we cannot grasp... will always be there!
Listening to our instinct, being honest and truthful with ourselves and others is key to spiritual advancement.
Just like food and shopping ,we choose according to taste and completely ignore the consequences/controversies that surround that choice.
It comes to sincerity and intuition . Listen to your inner self. Be honest and persist to follow your deep instinct that tells you "something is wrong here".
GOD tells us that the instinct is built in us .
Even more difficult if that instinct is not going to be connected back to its Creator.
Never an easy process the straight path.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
Animals are happy to be "muslims" to GOD . Their reward awaiting them at their Lord.
Everything returns to GOD. Animals = No Ego.
GOD bless.
Peace -
Animals are happy to be "muslims" to GOD . Their reward awaiting them at their Lord.
Everything returns to GOD. Animals = No Ego.
GOD bless.
PeaceYeah, I wouldn't mind being a gorilla, no income to worry about, free food,
sound mind, member of close knit group, no liars and yes No Ego.I enjoyed my sectarian life but eventually outgrew it as I accumulated knowledge.
peace
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Peace,
Yeah, I wouldn't mind being a gorilla, no income to worry about, free food,
sound mind, member of close knit group, no liars and yes No Ego.I enjoyed my sectarian life but eventually outgrew it as I accumulated knowledge.
peace
Hawk, I never paid any serious thought to how wonderful it would be to be a gorilla. It sounds idyllic! We can be a part of the same troop!
Peace.
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Animals are happy to be "muslims" to GOD . Their reward awaiting them at their Lord.
Everything returns to GOD. Animals = No Ego.
GOD bless.Amen...
Peace,
Hawk, I never paid any serious thought to how wonderful it would be to be a gorilla. It sounds idyllic! We can be a part of the same troop!
Peace. )
Bonobo or Orangutan might be a better choice.
Two of the most peaceful species among primates, with the most aggressive being human.
Chimpanze and Gorilla came out 2nd and 3rd.Just like what we commonly found among human, there has been observable cases of tribal wars and conflicts within Chimpanzee and also Gorilla tribes... Fighting over leadership, right to mate, territory or food.
There seems to be an observable pattern related to their dietary behavior... Chimp, Gorilla and Human are known to be 'meat eaters' in addition to plant eaters.
While Bonobo and Orangutan are strictly vegetarian...
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"Seeing the light" can be good news or bad news ( you know like seeing the light in a dark tunnel...The incoming train and all that).
I hope it is good news for you brother almarh0m.Manny_E, I cannot speak for others ,but for me I wish I can cancel my pact of "accepting responsibility" as a human. The more I am trying to know, the more botching up of this responsibility I am making.. I guess there is no way back now.
Sometimes I wonder if my horse, my dog or even my fish could converse with me and give me their take on this life? It will make better sense than what us humans are inventing/coming out with!
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I am convinced that each animal, each kind, is a teacher which exemplifies some quality or potential which in many cases humans can develop.
Some majestic qualities, like courage, fearlessness, others like our friends, the dogs, a humility and delf offer that is as sincere as full of self-assurance. Animals do have qualities, God given, and we have qualities which are God given but about which we theorize and develop ideas, but that does not mean that we are more self-made and any animal or thing is. We live ourselves, just like animals, we do not get out of the all encircling power of God and love of God. Every single instant that we live, we do so because He makes that be there and do what we do and what we think. We live out God's deisgn and purpose. We always serve God and are what God wants us to be just like everything and every animal.
Only He is, but He lets us be as individualities, as separate consciences. And He loves what He does and loves His Creation which is perfetct.
Salaam
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Peace Manny_E
You are not getting me brother. Let me elaborateWe and animals are different. Our instincts are also different.
Part of the instinct that is in humans (Because they accepted the "Amana" is "Fitrata Allah". The difference is "Wa nafakha fihi min ruhihi".
Some of our deep instinct will lead us to connect to our Creator. That is the helpful factor towards the true path and the discipline you are talking about.
But you are right about our animal instinct will do the opposite.
If you do not want to call them both "instinct" , that is fine by me. But they are opposites.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
May I join this,
I have thought about what remains from living (sometimes the simplest things we find ourselves we did not think about enough to fully understand).
When you die, what makes it that living was worth it ? Surely not something that is left in this world. When we die we leave our body and all the things that we cared about.
If there is something that is not from this earth, something that is not left in this world after death, that would be what religions taught us to be the spirit that our creator gave us.
Yet we find that things that will not remain are given the most attention and effort while our soul's development is given the least if not ignored.Perhaps after death, the spirit is liberated from this material world and enters a world that we cannot see with our human eyes, and at the "gates" of this world an angel comes and takes a look at this new soul, "Go back from where you came from, you have no place here". The soul being confused, groggy and dull, did not merit its place there.
There is no need of a religion after realizing this simple thing. no crying no supplications no kissing stones if you are determined then the way is open to you if not then you're not achieving that and will not be achieving anything beyond this world.
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"Quran Alone Islam" is a sect too.
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Cerberus ,interesting take on who we are.
I agree . What we see all around us is just different manifestations of shapes and forms.
Say I turn to a stone next, who is to say I am in a worse position than being a human.
I do not think one can say animals or other creations are worse than a human being when it comes to reality( the next life!).
GOD bless you.
Peace.
