5 Salat a day
-
What I understood is that the cave was aligned in a direction compared to sun's path, that its light was not reaching inside the cave.
If you stand in the position of the cave and the sun rises from you right side as in 1817 then you are facing north, thus the cave is facing north.
-
peace,
From my experience, bias plays a huge role in one's own beliefs. Interestingly, in your case, we have a clear contradiction to highlight, so let's see if you will correct yourself, or at least admit it is an inconsistency
I assume you are making the claim that since mawqootan is an Arabic plural (i.e. more than 2) then salat daily must be more than two daily. For sake of argument, let's say that's true.
You contradict your own methodology with
Because in 1778 it clearly states uphold/aqimi al salat (singular) li X til Y, not plural "salawat". So, Quran says to do one salat during that time period, not three.
So, on the one hand you uphold the singular/plural usage, then ignore it elsewhere......... to make your view fit.
Confirmation bias in action.
In 3031 the same phrase 'uphold/aqimi al salat (singular)' was used by luqman, but I don't think the phrase is not referring to the whole 5 daily salat.
-
peace,
...
So, on the one hand you uphold the singular/plural usage, then ignore it elsewhere......... to make your view fit.
Confirmation bias in action.
Please see http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html
It is your understanding that contradicts the 5 daily salat
As per informations available in the Quran
Nahar means day, that is the period when the sun is revealed (above the horizon) as stated in 913
Layli means night, that is the period when the sun is covered (below the horizon) as stated in 914
Please note that Tarafayi alnnahari in 11114 means 2 parts of the day nahar, that is zuhur and asr, and zulafan mina allayli refers to magrib, isha'i and fajar
Therefore fajr and isha?i are parts of night not nahar as commonly erroneously translated it
-
It is your understanding that contradicts the 5 daily salat
As per informations available in the Quran
Nahar means day, that is the period when the sun is revealed (above the horizon) as stated in 913
Layli means night, that is the period when the sun is covered (below the horizon) as stated in 914
Please note that Tarafayi alnnahari in 11114 means 2 parts of the day nahar, that is zuhur and asr, and zulafan mina allayli refers to magrib, isha'i and fajar
Therefore fajr and isha?i are parts of night not nahar as commonly erroneously translated it
Forgive me if i have missed some important parts but this article is about Wakas reviewing 4 articles Traditional view of Salat.
From Wakas article
Background information
Traditional Islamic history openly admits that before the alleged "isra & miraj" (night journey & ascension) story involving prophet Muhammad in 171, there were only two salat daily, or perhaps 2 + 1 extra during the night, see sources famous Traditional scholar Ibn Kathir and academic article dedicated to this topic. For those unfamiliar with the alleged isra & miraj story, please use a search engine. For a possible explanation of 171 as per Quran, please see here. Thus, according to tradition, after this event there became 5 daily salat.The following are some typical examples of articles arguing for 5 daily salat from The Quran
A) Joseph Islam http//quransmessage.com/articles/the%20five%20prayers%20from%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm (accessed Feb 9th 2014)
B) Muhammad Shaikh http//muhammadshaikh.com/english_pdf/salah_prayer.pdf
C) Rashad Khalifa et al http//submission.org/Where_can_we_find_Salah.html (very brief content regarding the timings)
D) Dr Ahmad Subhy Mansour http//www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=8297
etc.There are other articles, however their arguments are very similar and discuss the same verses. I will use the contents of article (A) as the primary reference, listing examples of problems, and alongside each numbered point I shall reference which other articles from the above also have same/similar issues. It should be noted that the other articles above do not discuss certain aspects of their proposed view, thus are not detailed enough to determine if they contain some of the problems below or not.
-
peace bagyane,
Unfortunately, your answer is as I suspected it would be filled with baseless bias. Allow me to clarify for all to see
Verse X uses plural ---> bagyane pays attention to usage and uses this in his argument
Verse Y uses singular ---> bagyane ignores usage and thinks something elseYou then add more baseless bias with your interpretation of 11114.
As member Sardar alluded to, here is an article pointing out the many many problems with the 5 salat daily view
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html
-
peace bagyane,
Unfortunately, your answer is as I suspected it would be filled with baseless bias. Allow me to clarify for all to see
Verse X uses plural ---> bagyane pays attention to usage and uses this in his argument
Verse Y uses singular ---> bagyane ignores usage and thinks something elseYou then add more baseless bias with your interpretation of 11114.
As member Sardar alluded to, here is an article pointing out the many many problems with the 5 salat daily view
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html
Tarafayi alnnahari can never be fajr and isha?i because layl and nahr are two different signs
-
Yes tarafyin nahar is Isha and Fajr... it's very intricate but need much exploration.. there are certain things in life you understand it right and keep doing right but at times being unable to explain how it is right..
But i try to explain as much as i can..2187 says fast till night fall and not Magrib (sunset .. this word is used in quran in other places). so from Fajr (not all period of fajr but when clear visible light appearing time of fajr. coz fajr or isha is not just one minute it is bit extended period) to night fall (when civil light is over after sunset or a period where u need artificial light for most of the things to be visible-but not all). Generally people take sunrise to sunset is day/nahar.. Big NO.. if God asks in 2187 not to eat and drink or have sex with your wives after CLEAR FAJR.. so if night is till SUNRISE, Does God Orders us in 2187 to have sex with wife till sunset coz it is still part of night as per most.. Coz God allows to approach them in night (not specific) any time of night as we want..It cant be done with fasting.. isn't it? So, the period after the extreme end of fajr i.e civil light start cannot be night.. very simple.. So tarafaying Nahar is starting point of visible civil light and the ending point of civil light. This is day/nahar.. but not at these times, but nearness period from this to point towards night.. it depends on each to decide when to pray after and before civil ligh of two endst..if civil light end at 730 if we pray at 8 we know we are not too far from the Tharafyin nahar compared with the total night period. Night definitely end with visible light of fajr.. that's why in chapter 97 in qadr, God says revealed on night and then ends it with Haththa .... fajr.. if fajr is also part of night He would not say that. That's 11114 two salats (Fajr and Isha)
1778 talks about salat al Wusta it is from the mid day till Gashak al Lail.. as i said night has it's periods .. after civil lights also you may see things in different angle with difficulty this is still night but not that dark extreme night.. Since it is mentioned Ghashak and night, that also at the same point of start of night when civil light over.. So period for Wusta is that how explained.. In 2458 Isha and Fajr mentioned but not any other salat during day time.. this is because Isha and Fajr very limited time period at least for the people where quran was revealed.. but wusta is such an extended long period, so one may remove his cloths after or before wusta prayer.. thats why God didn't mention the salat there. Since it's extended period and specifically during hustle and bustle time of the day, the chance of missing the wusta is so vulnerable.. thats why 2238 is extraordinarily highlighted, not because that salat is better than any..
Some may point how come these things refer in a day's salat.. yes it is within a day frame cos God says tharafayin nahar, refers to a particular day. every time tarafayin nahar comes it is our duty.. same for other..And salat is not merely praying.. it's other important meaning is moral when you see the word is mixed with zakat.. it is like.. establish moral/duty and bring forth purification.. or similar meanings..
but this is a kind of ritual prayer since it is need washing etc. 443, 56 further I strongly believe if one has washed his/her full body as per these verses then, no need of doing the four steps.. read carefully.
Salat is STANDING ONLY.. most of the quran only followers take Ruku and sujud to salat.. No way combing the word salat is mentioned with ruku and sujud..
Most of the verses speak salat and standing.. even zakariya praying standing, hypocrites praying standing.. at war situation believes praying standing..on the day of congregation, chapter 62 praying standing.. even 2238 say pray standing . etc..
In one verse god says. After completing praying, remember God, STANDING, SITTING DOWN AND LYING ON YOUR SIDES.. this is so specific.. if God let the believers to remember in such physical positions He would have definitely ordered in quran the other remaining positions of salat..it is clear salat is only standing and applauding the Creator as much as one likes to starting with a saying of Ar Rahman or any other God?s name and ending with sujud (with submission to God) not physical but with words or mentally) for example even saying of ?No god but God? is a perfect submission(sujud) sentence..
Meanwhile no direction for prayers at all 2142 ? 151 is not direction for Salat at all.. No salat is mentioned there. If so Allah himself won?t divide jews and believers by asking not to follow each other qiblas.. it?s something else, not prayer direction. -
Just as an info all good believers in One God.. We are living in a period without a living prophet.. Only Quran as last revealed book we depend. So we may come across many questions but Allah will clear.. This following verse is tailor-made for that I I guess..
9115 And Allah will never lead a people astray after He has guided them until He makes clear to them as to what they should AVOID. ...."
Yes.. We are going through this period as to what we should avoid.. Definitely God has guided already but we have our concerns what to do n avoid depending solely on quran.. He will guid us gradually.. I have confidence on it.. How many thing I personally did wrong while I was a hadith all Nonesence type things believer.. Even after accepting only Quran how many things I did which we feel wring Now.. Still to go.. It doesn't mean we change things... No we are getting changed and guided by God to what we should be AVOIDED as per 9115 -
If
Yes tarafyin nahar is Isha and Fajr...
then what can you say about the information below?
Nahar means day, that is the period when the sun is revealed (above the horizon) as stated in 913
Layli means night, that is the period when the sun is covered (below the horizon) as stated in 914
In your understanding at what points is Yooliju allayla fee alnnahari wayooliju alnnahara fee allayi 576 taking place?
-
Salam!
As per 4103, it talks about /specified or fixed hours/time. While 2189 tells that it is /new moons or phases of moon which are used to mark fixed/specified times.
Please comment.
Regards,
-
Yes dear "Tell me the truth"
So you have concern on 913 and 914. Had u explored the verse carefully u wouldn't have asked it from me..
It says not the Sun is revealed, it says about sun's brightness revealed.. Throughout Nahar sun may not appear in it's extreme brightness and may physically visible the object sun. That u know. Before sunrise it's not so bright, just after sunrise as well, but then it gets brighter.. And during the course it may at times not brighter coz of hidden to clouds or raining or eclipse etc. And just before sunset also not bright and just after too.. But these periods are nahar, we have light coz of the brightness of sun. Coz brightness of sun will never cease till day of ressurection. It is it unique feature. But when the darkness cover the brightness of sun every light is over..
In 914 it doesn't say night covers the Sun.. It says Night covers the brightness of Sun.. How can night cover the object sun at any time? Night never can cover the object sun as long as it has its brightness.. Am I right?
Remember God created darkness then only sun and it's brightness.. As long as its brightness appear to any part of the world it's nahar.. Lail that is darkness, end of brightness of sun but Lail has its beginning not with extreme dark.. Coz sun's brightness left on the earth it's effect and it takes time to get dark to extreme..
That's why I wondered in two verse Allah says who will bring to you darkness if I kept Nahar till day of resurrection.. And same.. Who will bring light if I kept Lail till day of ressurection.. Did u ever ponder.. Just before sunrise is everything clear.. If it is Lail.. I was wondering this verse gives any meaning? The object sun and it's brightness is ever present but coz of the way the universe is created it is not visible to us.. First the object disappears then it's brightness.. As well first it's brightness appears and the object appears.. If half an our period after Fajr before sunrise is still night then having sex in it during fasting is no where mentioned wrong.. Unless that period is nahar... -
And about 576.. U asked my opinion..
It's about Lail getting shortened or widened coz of nahar getting widened or shortened during the course of seasons of simply year..
That so visible throught a year all over the world night is short day is long and day is shot night is long.. Coz Allah makes it happen.. How it happens we all know now.. If we google.. But not then when it was revealed.. -
About 4103 and 2189
Yes dear it's fixed.. The sun and moon both are for counting periods..
During night you can say if u see a full moon the time of the month.. During day when sun is there u can imagine what time of the day now.. Can u say the time of the day by when there is no moon is visible during day.. No..
4103 is talking about sun and based on it fixed period.. And 2189 is about moon and it's counting.. Don't u really use both for counting fixed tine if you were living in a period where o watch is around..
Sun is useful to for fixed period of time during day.. N moon is good to say which day it is even u did not count.. They can count with sun of course but they should daily count the days.. But moon will help with its sight..
So salt in 4103 is fixed according to sun and not moon.. And first moon 2"189 for counting and haj.. I wonder why God not mention fasting if it start with first moon.. For me fasting from full moon -
To bagyane and anyone who thinks 5 Salat and those Quran only followers who think with sunset Night starts though they take 3 Salat, is the following explanation ..may Allah guide us
If tarafyin nahar is two ends (Sunset n sunrise) to b exact.. Then use very simple logic..
So according that aspect one of the Salats should b at sunset.. Right? So practically one has to wait till the sun to go down the horizon completely and then quickly start praying to God.. This is typically in Arabic a period called magrib.. So suppose one finished praying within 5 or 10 minutes.. So according to your terminology(sunrise to sunset=nahar), so the salat that u prayed is inside nahar or Lail? Lail yes.. But you say prayed at nahar period but not actually..
Same thing for quran only three time prayers but who take nahar=sunrise to sunset.. So you pray isha.. Right? So your isha time is once the sunset.. So same suppose u finished prayer just after 5 , 10 mints.. Still could b bright enough.. So do u really call this period in Arabic isha? When u have another word for it in the name of magrib..
Now let's turn to the other End of tarafyin nahar.. That's fair for both(5time praying party n Quran only party).
If one End is sunset, then definitely we got to wait for sunrise.. Coz the logic here the nahar =sunrise to sunset.. So my dear 5 time praying group.. Do u really wait till sunrise to start your prayer.. I guess no.. Right? Then why for one end u immediately start praying and other end u well before sunrise in darkness of dawn you pray.. That's most probably the exact time Quran orders.. This has meaning also of the Salat name given to it as Fajr in Arabic.. . Then Why this Contradiction to one end only.. Suppose if still one says no I will pray at sunrise.. Then definitely he has to see sunrise first same as he waited for sun to set.. So if he started praying once sun is risen he may finish it 5 mints.. So that's nahar of course.. But is it really Fajr which is the only Salat ordered of the other end..
So do u still adamant that yes, tarafyin nahar is sunrise and sunset and nahar=sunrise to sunset.. Where is your wits folks? What happened to your god gifted verification..
Nahar start well before sunrise when there is Civil light and nahar ends well after sunset when civil light over
. That's why asked in my earlier reply to give explanation while fasting after Fajr till sunrise, can anyone approach wife.. Yes.. If it is night.. But it is not night dear all.. Pls think..
Remember I was taking this with the place where QURAN revealed and similar scenario areas. If you think of north and south poles or near countries.. Then simple.. God's logic is night with darkness and nahar/ day with light.. If in those places, even after sunset till sunrise no darkness appear then very simple answer is there was no night.. And vice versa.. If even after sunrise if no light then is no nahar/day there
. If according to God's standard explanations of nahar and Lail not appear to them they must be exempted from any thing which Allah orders of relevant to this.. Or they should shift their places of living , world is spacious as God calls. It's not easy since they r settled.. ..or shouldn't complain these matters.. It's similar to Someone who says who lives in dense jungle and says I have huge problem from elephants and lions and no one cares about us.. We erected electric fences still they encroach.. They forgot where they are living and still blaming to animals.. I wonder u got me.. -
Duha is not the whole brightness of the sun but a part/section of nahar, it is commonly understood as late morning or when the brightness is around its peak, therefore not every part of nahar is duha.
Below are some of the references of usages of the word duha in the quran7/98
20/59
Nahar is the common period for gathering of large crowd wajaAAala alnnahara nushooran 25/47 or the period for earnings 78/11 WajaAAalna alnnahara maAAashan
Adam in Al-Jannat never witness duha 20/119
Al-abrar in Al-Jannat would never see shamsi 76/13
Therefore fajar and isha?i are part of layl not nahar and Tarafayi alnnahari in 11/114 does not refer to any of the two; it refers to zuhur and asr
Taraf does not always mean extremity or edge etc it also means section, part or group; motion such eye blink; shape such as oval, ball, curve etc
The usages of the word taraf are repeated eleven times in the quran
3/127
11/114
13/41
14/43
20/130
21/44
27/40
37/48
38/52
42/45
55/56
The word yooliju in 56/6 is referring intersection or pass through of layl into nahar or nahar into layl not widen or shorten as you claimed. It is a daily activity not seasonal
Below are some the usages of the word in the Quran
7/40
34/2
The permission in 2/187 is extended to the time of fajar not beyond.
-
Hi again.. Thanks for thoughts.. If u feel what is right continue do it as long as you knew what is right and still adamant and the it is between u and your Lord.. God's sees hearts well..
Nahar is always lighted according to Quran whether bright or dim.. It can have it's other meaning..
Duha has other meanings for sure like Salat gives other meaning I Quran.. But as an understanding person always should take and go with the context of the verse and verse before and after probably.
You said almost blindly that 2187 is Upto fajr..so u indirectly accept night is Upto Fajr.. Quran is clear my dear bad says to have intercourse or approach wife nights of fasting.. So it's our duty to find what is night.. You claim till sunrise is night and still say QURAN orders.. No further comments.. God knows your heart and let's meet in sha Allah in the day of ressurection and find out what actually was right unless u understand it before death.. T c -
