Punishment for Rape?
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Salaam 'Alaikum,
The punishment for adultery is 100 lashes according to the Qur'an. So we must do that for the rapist and not stone to death.Okay, so a guy rapes a child of 4 years old and brutally murders that child, for him is 100 lashes too? And we all know guys like this will commit the sin again if they get 100 lashes because these criminals will absorb this 100 lashes for their next "Rape Journey" to satisfy their desires.
Majority of the people says death to these guys, and I agree with most of these cases too.
What's your opinion on this?
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Salaam 'Alaikum,
The punishment for adultery is 100 lashes according to the Qur'an. So we must do that for the rapist and not stone to death.The punishment for cuckolding is 100 lashes. I used to think the above for rape and thought zina means rape or had lashes as a punishment too, but that is false.
Okay, so a guy rapes a child of 4 years old and brutally murders that child, for him is 100 lashes too? And we all know guys like this will commit the sin again if they get 100 lashes because these criminals will absorb this 100 lashes for their next "Rape Journey" to satisfy their desires.
Majority of the people says death to these guys, and I agree with most of these cases too.
What's your opinion on this?
(As an aside, in the example you gave, murder is involved too. So either way, the default punishment would be death.)
My current position, from what I have studied, is that the punishment set out in the Quran for rape is death. 3358-61 alludes to this. In my opinion, if I were a victim or one of my children or one of my wives were, I would want the perpetrator to get life in prison if the perpetrator were under 40 and only executed if above 40 since I still lean towards the 40 year theory.
Some, such as Wakas, say that the punishment for rape can range from banishment to death. However, the passage that alludes to the punishment for rape (and perhaps also domestic terrorism and inciting civil unrest) does not talk about banishment. It simply says "they will not be your neighbors except for a short while" - that is because they will be taken and killed.
3358 Those who indignify/bother/shame the believing men and the believing women, with no just reason, they have brought upon themselves slander and gross crime/detriment.
3359 O prophet! Tell your wives, your daughters and the women of the believing men that they should draw down on themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would be recognized and not indignified/bothered/shamed. God is Forgiver, Compassionate.
3360 If the waverers, and those with disease in their hearts and those who spread unrest in the city do not refrain, We will let you overpower them. Then they will not be able to remain as your neighbors except for a short while.
3361 Accursed! Wherever they are found, they are taken and comprehensively killed.
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The punishment for cuckolding is 100 lashes. I used to think the above for rape and thought zina means rape or had lashes as a punishment too, but that is false.
(As an aside, in the example you gave, murder is involved too. So either way, the default punishment would be death.)
My current position, from what I have studied, is that the punishment set out in the Quran for rape is death. 3358-61 alludes to this. In my opinion, if I were a victim or one of my children or one of my wives were, I would want the perpetrator to get life in prison if the perpetrator were under 40 and only executed if above 40 since I still lean towards the 40 year theory.
Some, such as Wakas, say that the punishment for rape can range from banishment to death. However, the passage that alludes to the punishment for rape (and perhaps also domestic terrorism and inciting civil unrest) does not talk about banishment. It simply says "they will not be your neighbors except for a short while" - that is because they will be taken and killed.
3358 Those who indignify/bother/shame the believing men and the believing women, with no just reason, they have brought upon themselves slander and gross crime/detriment.
3359 O prophet! Tell your wives, your daughters and the women of the believing men that they should draw down on themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would be recognized and not indignified/bothered/shamed. God is Forgiver, Compassionate.
3360 If the waverers, and those with disease in their hearts and those who spread unrest in the city do not refrain, We will let you overpower them. Then they will not be able to remain as your neighbors except for a short while.
3361 Accursed! Wherever they are found, they are taken and comprehensively killed.
But, the verses speaks about hypocrites who spreads false news (rumors) against the believers to harm them. Not about other crimes like Rape, killing etc.
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Peace All.
By all means discuss "What should a punishment of rape" or any other punishment according to Qoran should be.
But remember, GOD has seen to it that a justice system has been put in all countries around the world. i.e we can only discuss punishments, we are helpless to implement any.
If one decides to introduce a new "justice system according to Qoran",then here is a list to think about-Creating a new country/community independent of the justices available around the world now.
- Agreeing to the Qoranic punishment/methods and details by all concerned.
- Putting in place a "police/army/authority" to enforce these laws.
- etc....
The questions that can be beneficial to us should be
Which country has a better system of justice that deals with rape ,....etc
Just pointing another angle in this discussion.
GOD bless.
Peace.
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I do not think that the Qur'an is a code of criminal law or of any other law. It points to things that may be possible, but does not impose a fixed set of punishments for the whole series of crimes nor even for a few of them.
The zina, which mentionned as the clearest example of punishment is not in fact enforceable by authorities in the sense that it is not the authorities which are ordered to pursue and punish zina, but what it provides is to prevent that anybody carries gossip, founded or unfounded. That is why it says what whoever accuses, not the authorities, but th accuser himself must bring four witnesses, otherwise he himself is liable to 80 lashes. The authorities need not at all intervene till the accuser comes up with four witnesses, which of course should be properly examined and their testimony proved as with any other crime.
The fact is that history is very long, thousands of years and to commit any single crime to a punishment for ever may seem proper to some people, but the circumstances of every society are different. In a society where the administration of justice is groke and corrupt, imposing heavy penalties for anything, is nearly a guarantee that innocents will be punished in order for the corrupt to have free way.
In the case of rape, it should be pondered if the rapists wouldn't go for out right murder jus in order that the victim cannot indict them or recognize them.
It is not a question of whether something is wrong or not wrong, a crime or not a crime, on which everybody would agree, but whether a certain punishment will give the best results in the actual circumstances.
As to sura 33. I think that it does nto point to only a particular crime against women amd m but to a range of them, which may go from molesting to killing.
Salaam
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Peace All.
By all means discuss "What should a punishment of rape" or any other punishment according to Qoran should be.
But remember, GOD has seen to it that a justice system has been put in all countries around the world. i.e we can only discuss punishments, we are helpless to implement any.
If one decides to introduce a new "justice system according to Qoran",then here is a list to think about-Creating a new country/community independent of the justices available around the world now.
- Agreeing to the Qoranic punishment/methods and details by all concerned.
- Putting in place a "police/army/authority" to enforce these laws.
- etc....
The questions that can be beneficial to us should be
Which country has a better system of justice that deals with rape ,....etc
Just pointing another angle in this discussion.
GOD bless.
Peace.
Yes! Usury and adultery are legal! Fiat money for all! Men get convicted of rape and/or slandered due to false rape accusations! Men lose half their wealth after getting divorced!
Such great justice systems yay
Just because something exists, does not mean it is in accordance with God's law. Perhaps you should consider laying off the government Koolaid.
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Brother progressive, who said the justice systems are great.
I said what do you do?
GO on then, and create your own or what you think it is the Qoran s system?
First you have to agree what Qoran says, and I do not see that.
Second ,you will have to answer to the existing systems, like it or not.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I also want to add that simply crying "rape!" should not amount to a conviction. There has to be substantial evidence, if not witnesses. Note that 3360 says "they are taken" not "the woman cried 'rape' when she regretted her slutty behavior." A serious crime also carries a serious punishment, so one needs to be careful to convict only when the evidence supports the claims.
According to Huruf, for instance, it seems that rape occurs when she loses against or cannot follow an argument with a man, upon which the man is immediately slandered as a rapist. https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609774.msg410228#msg410228
Indeed, I think false and malicious rape and sexual harrasment/assault accusations should be punished. Nowadays far too many women get away with it. Meanwhile men in prison get raped by homosexual animals who get away with it or a relatively light punishment many times. Many actual victims do not report the crime due to embarrasment.
And as I said before, I think domestic terrorism could be included here in 3358-60.
I do not think that the Qur'an is a code of criminal law or of any other law. It points to things that may be possible, but does not impose a fixed set of punishments for the whole series of crimes nor even for a few of them.
The zina, which mentioned as the clearest example of punishment is not in fact enforceable by authorities in the sense that it is not the authorities which are ordered to pursue and punish zina, but what it provides is to prevent that anybody carries gossip, founded or unfounded. That is why it says what whoever accuses, not the authorities, but th accuser himself must bring four witnesses, otherwise he himself is liable to 80 lashes. The authorities need not at all intervene till the accuser comes up with four witnesses, which of course should be properly examined and their testimony proved as with any other crime.
The fact is that history is very long, thousands of years and to commit any single crime to a punishment for ever may seem proper to some people, but the circumstances of every society are different. In a society where the administration of justice is groke and corrupt, imposing heavy penalties for anything, is nearly a guarantee that innocents will be punished in order for the corrupt to have free way.
In the case of rape, it should be pondered if the rapists wouldn't go for out right murder jus in order that the victim cannot indict them or recognize them.
It is not a question of whether something is wrong or not wrong, a crime or not a crime, on which everybody would agree, but whether a certain punishment will give the best results in the actual circumstances.
As to sura 33. I think that it does nto point to only a particular crime against women amd m but to a range of them, which may go from molesting to killing.
Salaam
The passage does not talk about "crimes against women." 3358 - it is both men and women.
But, the verses speaks about hypocrites who spreads false news (rumors) against the believers to harm them. Not about other crimes like Rape, killing etc.
It says If the waverers, and those with disease in their hearts and al murjifoona do not refrain, We will let you overpower them. Then they will not be able to remain as your neighbors except for a short while.
The root RJF signifies convulsion and earthquake.
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At the end of the day, remember that we all get judged by God.
1061 You are not in any situation, nor do you recite any from the Quran, nor do you do any work without us being witnesses over you when you are engaged in it. Nothing is hidden from your Lord, not even an atoms weight on earth or in the heavens, nor smaller than that, nor larger, that is not in a clear decree.
997 Whoever does an atoms weight of good will see it.
998 And whoever does an atoms weight of evil will see it.
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Salaam 'Alaikum,
The punishment for adultery is 100 lashes according to the Qur'an. So we must do that for the rapist and not stone to death.Okay, so a guy rapes a child of 4 years old and brutally murders that child, for him is 100 lashes too? And we all know guys like this will commit the sin again if they get 100 lashes because these criminals will absorb this 100 lashes for their next "Rape Journey" to satisfy their desires.
Majority of the people says death to these guys, and I agree with most of these cases too.
What's your opinion on this?
100 lashes is not easily survivable.
It's really in the Hand of God if you live or not after.
It is a HEAVY punishment
Research very well what 100 lashes can do before thinking about adding punishments God has not decreed.Also in the scenario you describe the criminal would receive the 100 lashes then would have to pay blood money to the family and the family can decide whether they want the life of the criminal or they forgive him. The lashes might just kill hi, before however.
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It's clear that the 100 lashes are not meant to kill. In chapter 24, the cuckolding wife and the man she cheated with are said to no longer be able to marry a believer - only an idolater or another cuckolder. Also, lashing someone 100 times to kill them isnt just a death penalty, it is also torture.
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100 lashes is not easily survivable.
It's really in the Hand of God if you live or not after.
It is a HEAVY punishment
Research very well what 100 lashes can do before thinking about adding punishments God has not decreed.Also in the scenario you describe the criminal would receive the 100 lashes then would have to pay blood money to the family and the family can decide whether they want the life of the criminal or they forgive him. The lashes might just kill hi, before however.
That is point that I have pondered some times. Exactly what are those 100 or 80 lashes, or floggings or stripes? Is it surely that?
I sort of wonder, because although I am convinced that these ayas have the purpose of cleaning believers slander and carrying tales, still, even if once in a century would be applied and it is what you, HP-TECh, depict, seems reaaly heavy.
That is why I think that there is in it more than catches the eye immediately. In fact it amounts to torture and a very cruel one. May be it spurpose is to deter people from accusing, apart from the 80 lashes, also because flogging publicly in such a way is not precisely a pretty sight and so the idea of it, might also deter people from accusing or gossiping.
Salaam
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100 lashes is not easily survivable.
It's really in the Hand of God if you live or not after.
It is a HEAVY punishment
Research very well what 100 lashes can do before thinking about adding punishments God has not decreed.Also in the scenario you describe the criminal would receive the 100 lashes then would have to pay blood money to the family and the family can decide whether they want the life of the criminal or they forgive him. The lashes might just kill hi, before however.
Thanks for your explanation.
That depends, is that 100 lases with whip or stick?
If with whip, that's survivable. And how do we know whether it's whip or stick lashing? and if stick is it light stick or heavy stick?
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Wow! Wakas (or a different mod) just censored my last post calling him out and posting evidence. It was moved here. He threatened to ban me and claimed I was making "unevidenced misogynistic generalizations." I then posted evidence for these so-called "mysogynistic generalizations." These so-called "mysogynistic generalizations" were really just me saying that there are many cases in which women falsely accused men of rape. In fact, our very own forum member, Huruf, has done that against me because she couldnt follow my argument and question, and perhaps also because she was being emotional.
In a different thread I said that women tend to be more emotional than men, and that men tend to be more logical than women. Again, this is a fact which can be looked up and for which I am willing to provide plenty of evidence for those that are too lazy to do research for facts that go against their cultural and political views.
I had presented a long list of news articles about false rape/sexual harrasment cases to provide evidence for the "unevidenced mysogynistic generalizations." Wakas (or a different mod) deleted the post.
Good job, Censored-Minds AKA Closed-Minds AKA Feminist-Minds.
If I get banned, you know that it was because of a censoring, power-tripping moderator. Also, do not confuse anti-feminism with hatred of women. May your search for knowledge end up in taking action to serve God, and not in debating about logical fallacies, debating whether salat is 2 hours or 1 hour, and neither in telling people to re-read their gibberish several times when they do not agree with your view.
Take care.
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In a different thread I said that women tend to be more emotional than men, and that men tend to be more logical than women. Again, this is a fact which can be looked up and for which I am willing to provide plenty of evidence for those that are too lazy to do research for facts that go against their cultural and political views.
http//78.media.tumblr.com/4c9949290ee3033a4a869f301d07d6fe/tumblr_n2o29vO03B1rtpm86o1_400.gif http//78.media.tumblr.com/b3381ceed57cd842f65f9d1637a75f49/tumblr_n2o29vO03B1rtpm86o2_400.gif
You're more emotional and illogical than women for one, LOOOL.
Never seen a "man" gossip this much hatred about women. Get your absurd sexist claims outta here. -
Please everyone calm down. Let us try have a reasonable discussion here.
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http//78.media.tumblr.com/4c9949290ee3033a4a869f301d07d6fe/tumblr_n2o29vO03B1rtpm86o1_400.gif http//78.media.tumblr.com/b3381ceed57cd842f65f9d1637a75f49/tumblr_n2o29vO03B1rtpm86o2_400.gif
You're more emotional and illogical than women for one, LOOOL.
Never seen a "man" gossip this much hatred about women. Get your absurd sexist claims outta here.God I hope you're black
