26 different Quran?
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Salaam 'Alaikum,
Since childhood I was always taught and I always heard that there is only 1 single Qur'an with NO DOTS changed.
And I always knew christian bible has got 40+ different versions. But after researching a bit I found the claim that Qur'an has got 26 different versions too and they don't match each other.Here is a small video too-
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y7eWEjBBw4Please explain.
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This has been dealt with many times in the forum. The scare is idiotic. I am not very good at finding threads, but if you search I am sure you will find more than one, or may some other member can direct you to them.
Salaam
I did try searching at first. But couldn't found -X
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I did try searching at first. But couldn't found -X
Then should we discuss it here then to make a reminder?
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In my case, it would be a lot of work that I have already done before and which since I was completely satisfied that the scare is nto worth the paper it is written in, I don't have the mind nor the energy to start all over for the sake of it. Others have done it. That is whyI pointed out that it has beeb dealt with repeatedly.
I hope some of the other older members have better memory than I have.
I know though that Noon wal qalami has been posting on the oldest copies of Qur'an and the "differences" found really are not such.
In fact from other colleagues it seems that the total of differences amount to less than ten words in the whole of Qur'an that are sinonymes and do not change meaning, rather the sinonyms complement each other.
If there were really such differences in the Qur'an, they wouldn't be hidden away in some obscure internet site or blog, but all over the planet in thousands of very knowledgeable books in all universities and so on.
I wish all the prolems in life would be as big as this one. With this one I am confident to sleep very well night and day.
Salaam
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Peace armom
The famous ayat 159 is the base of the concept that Quran is guaranteed to be protected and not even a dot has changed since its revelation.
(
Indeed we have revealed Al-zikar and indeed we are its protector.
Al-zikar may be translated as "the reminder". So guarantee is not to protect dots but the reminder. Dots and vowels were added later on. Oldest available writings as cited time and again by brother noon confirms that.
Like sister haruf said if there were any conceptual differences regarding the reminder it would have been thrown into our faces all over the world.
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Peace everyone!
Some people claim Qur'an is protected even by DOTS.But, now a days I hear some saying it has some minor changes which doesn't change the meaning. But I have some proof to show you that the meaning is changed.
If I tell you Qul (SAY)
If I tell you QALAA (He said)Nagfiru (we gave mercy)
Yugfiru (he gave mercy)and so on...
It's a comparison of Hafs and Warsh. But there are others too wow
And yes it's a huge change in meaning! o
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Peace armom
Like sister haruf said if there were any conceptual differences regarding the reminder it would have been thrown into our faces all over the world.Salaam brother,
It has been thrown at our faces now a days. Like the video above I gave, Smith has brought 26 Quran in the field to show everyone.
Like before we never even knew that Qur'an has even dot changed. It's still UNKNOWN to the masses.Ask any general muslim, he will surely tell you Quran is not changed at all (even dots) because it's what has been told always.
So the 26 variations are hidden from us and the universities because they for some reason didn't want people to know.
If you check here, there are proofs that each Quran is different and meaning is changed-
http//www.answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htmLet me know what you think.
If it's already been discussed in this forum kindly provide me the links so i can go through
Thank you for your efforts everyone!
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Peace everyone!
Some people claim Qur'an is protected even by DOTS.peace brother,
whoever claims anything they need to understand this "lack of knowledge is not an excuse"..
dots, vocal marks, numbering, chapter names, manzils, are added by humans ages later due to their ease of referencing things..
for your answers on the versions of quran the article on the free mind webpage is there although its true very few people know about these differences ..
the differences are debateable and possibly a publishing issue or different writing styles by different scribes in earlier times but all of these are already addressed in forum many times .. perhaps wakas can refer you some posts where that issue is been discussed
even traditional history claims the vocal marks are added by a person named as hajaj bin yousef..
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In Arabic short vowels have never been written and many consonants are distinguished only by the dots that make them into different consonants. Those dots were not written in older times. People had to know the language to know which letter to pronnounce if they were to read. But anyways, In order to preserve a written Qur'an without even the slightest failure, in later centuries those dots and thos short vowels and other phonetic marks were added later on to the Qur'an the copied or printed Qur'an.
Do, remember also that some centuries ago there was no printing, books, all books were handcopied one by one. Copists did make mistakes, not because there were different originals but because anybody can make a mistake so, if somebody, for instance picks a copy of a Qur'an where there was a mistake, no problems there were plenty of others where the mistake was nto there and also there were millions of people who know the Qur'an by heart, so no problem at all.
Today the Qur'an and very elementary beginners books are the only writings in printed Arabic that show short voewls and othe rphonetic marks. Books ad publications never show short vowels and very, very rarely other phonetic marks.
But you can be sure that they can be perfectly read and that say absolutely the same thing as if all the vowels and marks were there. As to handwritten Arabic, forget it, of course they write no short vowels nor phonetic marks.The Qur'an is not necessarily a printed book like many older revelations or well known or important matters in olden times everywhere int he world were not written. They were kep by heart by many people. Today we rely absolutely on the printed word and do not remember a damned thing. But Humanity has relied for many things through mileniums on memory and live voice to preserve knowledge. Things were cleverly and artistically formulated to help with it.
Aside from the handwritten copies the Qur'an was preserved no less by the recitation. by many people knowing by memory. If there were such divergences they would have shown en recitation. And changing the reciting of something which is phonetically suited to keep memorized and also the rythim and other factos that help keep as is is , which is boviously copletely lost in trnaslation but it is a very efficient way in the original. If those scare mongers had any reason at all there would be today differences when reciting. Which there are, but are those well known to which I have already referred and which are not of any consequence.
There have also been falsifications, not long ago I read of a printing house in Chequia where they were printing changed Qur'ans, it seems out of their own initiative. I don't know whether some or all of those 26 Qur'ans you talk about are falsifications. It also could be . Nothing easier than printing something ans say_ look here, this is a Qur'an and see how different it is.
As somebody has already said, those differences that are real are nimial, do not change any meaning and are certainly not a surprise for muslims, since they have been known all along through history.
It is a daily fare that this alarming, horrible "revelations" are showered on non muslims and on unsuspecting muslims all the time. This will not be the lat time you or anybody else will be fallen upon with this kind of thing. It is ongoing and never ceases.
On the other hand there is the Qur'an itself to defend itself. THAT IS THE BEST DEFENCE. And the biggest threat to it are not the scares, but the humans that interpret it, translate it and use it. If they have any impurity it will show in their understanding and translation. If they are very impure it will also show. Only the pure heart will touch the Qur'an. That is the Qur'an itself that says so. So, let us try to purify ourselves and the Qur'an will reward us inmensely and we do not need to worry or spend even a second on the ludicrous anti Qur'an crusaders babble.
It is funny that the biggest "assault" on the integrity of Qur'an has not come from those scare mongers but from a muslim qur'an only side, with Rashad Khalifa who, as I have read, said that there were two ayas added to the Qur'an. Those two very short ayas, are a much greater difference in the whole of qur'an than that represented by the whole armies of dots ignorants and islmophobes parade all the time as if they were opening our eyes to something awful with which we have been kept cheated for ages.
Those scare mongers can do that because, first they don't know Arabic, or think others do not know Arabic and therefore depict as a problem things that are in the nature of things themselves.
Answering islam is a filthy pastime. They are illwilled, islamohphobes and ignoratns on top of it all.
As to videos I never look at videos, it takes too much time and effort and can't keep looking till the guys come to the point and then nothing and show their goods. Please, in writing so I can see what I am "buying" (going to get). People seem to be delighted today being brainwashed by videos instead of in writing. The video propaganda knows what it is doing.
Salaam
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Thanks for your explanation @huruf.
have you read the article from answering islam? That shows the difference in meaning not a dot difference. Like one Qur'an saws Qul and another says Qalaa etc.
and also there were millions of people who know the Qur'an by heart, so no problem at all.
So far I heard this doesn't matter as they are all hadith follower hypno
It popped in my mind that why God is placing the whole Quran in the hadith follower and not those who follow only Quran.
In my country itself there are hundreds of thousands of Huffaz of Quran, and all of them believes and following hadith. Some people claiming that followers of hadith are the followers of satan. If this is true then why Allah is giving them this blessing of memorizing the entire Quran.
Allahu A'lam!
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My answers in red
Thanks for your explanation @huruf.
have you read the article from answering islam? That shows the difference in meaning not a dot difference. Like one Qur'an saws Qul and another says Qalaa etc.
Yes I read that, I have read too many things of answering islam, more than it is worth, I don't remember that exactly although it rings the bell and really, the whole thing did not impress me in the least, and I think I have done el the "researching" that the provocations of those kind of people will ever get out of me. They are would-bes without wintellectual worth. Just the know-how of how to make propaganda for the ignorant or the gullible.
So far I heard this doesn't matter as they are all hadith follower hypno
Really? How did you do it. How did you verify each of those persons you include in the millions who know the Qur?an by heart each one is a hadith follower?
And, assuming, which is assuming a lot, that they are ALL hadith followers, how does that make a difference in knowing the Qur'an by heart? Did they celebrate a millions convention to agree how they were going to falsify Qur'an? Is the Qur'an of those people falsified? They may twist what it says, but what they have not changed even if you dispise them is the text itself, whether by heart or printed. Not even Shias and sunnis differ on that. Not even the absolutely virtuous Qura'nists, they all agree on the same text.In what way can a hadithist make that black looks white? How?
If they have not changed the text, is it so painful to acknowledge that. Are we going to be punished by illness or something if we say something good about anybody we call hadithist?
It popped in my mind that why God is placing the whole Quran in the hadith follower and not those who follow only Quran.
In my country itself there are hundreds of thousands of Huffaz of Quran, and all of them believes and following hadith. Some people claiming that followers of hadith are the followers of satan. If this is true then why Allah is giving them this blessing of memorizing the entire Quran.
Allahu A'lam!
God, has put on hadithists, what?
Not on you and me and anybody has put it. But eventually we are nothing when God wants sometthing to be He just makes it be. The Qur'an has been preserved by God's will, that is it. Hadithists or not does not matter. What matters is it has been preserved textually.
Today when anybody wants to discuss matters he can go to the text and still get something out of it untainted by human falsification. We can get to the original and try, attempt to get the truth of it. If we don't then blame our conditioning by hadith or by whatever. What does it matter, we are purifiably but not absolutely pure. But we can get purer, and as we get purer (if we do) there will be the Qur'an to take us further and throw its unquechable light.
Salaam
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Thanks again @Huruf.
So doesn't it matter that why majority of the people who memorized the Quran and preserving it are followers of hadith?
And have you met any Hafiz who follows Quran only? Because i haven't yet may be due to my environment.Just curious. peace
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Most muslims I know personally have never taken hadith over Qur'an in principle. Qur'an continues to the reason for islam, even if confused due to other influences. There is not only hadith. There the importation of biblical material which goes squarely against the Qur'an and fisfgures it fundamentally. Yet, with the addtion or hadith and the additions of the bible or other elements, still the Qur'an persists and is protected by God. We have work before us, we must trust God, his word and our own disposition to work for goodness and truth.
This world is this world. Nothing ever will be perfect. This is the world of yihad, where we must make efforts for improvement, but improvement is always gradual and always chainging. We must work for the coming life beyond death, where we will collect the results of our endeavours in this world. This is the preparing of the soil ad the sowing season, the next life will be collection. Let us try to put inside this world yhe best seeds and the best irrigation and fertilisation, so that we are nto sorry later for having wandered to much and tried too little.
Nobody can know the faith of somebody else. We still cling to labels while God knows hearts. What do we know about each "hadither" as you call them. They also have a life that thy have to live and learn and stuble and get up, like we do. Let us help where we can, but let us not judge what the innermost feelings of others are. For each of us there is a destiny ruled by God. Let us accept His guidance and help and pray that others do as much.
Enough a sermon, I get carried away.
Salaam
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Peace everyone!
Some people claim Qur'an is protected even by DOTS.But, now a days I hear some saying it has some minor changes which doesn't change the meaning. But I have some proof to show you that the meaning is changed.
If I tell you Qul (SAY)
If I tell you QALAA (He said)Nagfiru (we gave mercy)
Yugfiru (he gave mercy)and so on...
It's a comparison of Hafs and Warsh. But there are others too wow
And yes it's a huge change in meaning! o
Have you compared alleged different versions? Do they convey different DEEN? Or do they have some differences in vowels or dots?
I have hafs as well as warsh Quran and when compared I found no impact on "The Reminder or Message".
Once again it does not say anywhere in Quran that a written text will be protected down to vowels or dots. Protection is for the message.
Salaam
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So doesn't it matter that why majority of the people who memorized the Quran and preserving it are followers of hadith?
the muslims allover the world
sunni =( multiple types of sunni ) roughly 70 percent = mix and match ( 98 % random sunnis never found a time to read the meaning of quran in their whole life)
shia =(multiple types of shia) roughly 20 percent
ahle hadith = follwers of hadith = roughly 2.5 percent
ahle quran = follower of quran = logically exist before the publishing of hadith = sect, group, forum,gang, individual, team etc
marzayi( followers of ghulam ahmed qadyani) = 1 percent
deobandi = mix and match of ahle hadith and ahle sunni = 2 percent roughlynow i have given you an idea about the popular sects and their branches lets summarise it and then tell me the ratio of hafiz -e- quran in all of them
lets move further witha claim by ahle hadith people who saiid a shai cant be a hafiz-e-quran and stories are there that this challlenge never accepted by any shai ?
and about other groups i would like to know your information about their ratio
And have you met any Hafiz who follows Quran only?
Just curious. peace
logically if you see the very first people of the group who follow the book quran are purely exempt from the sects that comes after the hadith literature so all early people are hafiz-e-quran .. of group that only follow the book called quran ...
but a label muslim is what is given by author of book other than that is a sect so the early followers knows it very well ..
so here we do it like this the early muslim is not= (sunni,shia,ahle quran, ahle hadith etc)
and they were also hafiz e quranlater muslims who catagorise themselves as a part of sect are also hafiz e quran (more than 50 % of hafiz e quran did not know spoken arabic )
it does not really make any difference ..
learning quran by heart (without understanding the meanings) is not what author wanted from you.. he want you to reflect, investigate and recite it slowly 17 36 with understanding the meanings and lessons behind that message ..
hope you got it now..
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Most muslims I know personally have never taken hadith over Qur'an in principle. Qur'an continues to the reason for islam, even if confused due to other influences. There is not only hadith. There the importation of biblical material which goes squarely against the Qur'an and fisfgures it fundamentally. Yet, with the addtion or hadith and the additions of the bible or other elements, still the Qur'an persists and is protected by God. We have work before us, we must trust God, his word and our own disposition to work for goodness and truth.
This world is this world. Nothing ever will be perfect. This is the world of yihad, where we must make efforts for improvement, but improvement is always gradual and always chainging. We must work for the coming life beyond death, where we will collect the results of our endeavours in this world. This is the preparing of the soil ad the sowing season, the next life will be collection. Let us try to put inside this world yhe best seeds and the best irrigation and fertilisation, so that we are nto sorry later for having wandered to much and tried too little.
Nobody can know the faith of somebody else. We still cling to labels while God knows hearts. What do we know about each "hadither" as you call them. They also have a life that thy have to live and learn and stuble and get up, like we do. Let us help where we can, but let us not judge what the innermost feelings of others are. For each of us there is a destiny ruled by God. Let us accept His guidance and help and pray that others do as much.
Enough a sermon, I get carried away.
Salaam
Thanks for your explanation.
I don't mean to judge hearts. I was just curious as to why haven't I found anyone who memorized the Qur'an and believes in Qur'an alone. Because as some (among those who follow only Quran) claims that hadith are "satanic creation". So my curiosity was why would God allow people who follow "satanic creation" to memorize the Qur'an and also recite it in full without even seeing in every Ramadan in Taraweeh prayers.
It's not my judgement really, just a curiosity based on some statements like "satanic creation" etc.Peace! peace
learning quran by heart (without understanding the meanings) is not what author wanted from you.. he want you to reflect, investigate and recite it slowly 17 36 with understanding the meanings and lessons behind that message ..
Peace brother.
This was actually in the context of Huruf saying "and also there were millions of people who know the Qur'an by heart, so no problem at all."
So in that context, in curiosity I wanted to know that if hadith were "satanic creation" (as some people claims) then why would Allah allow the people who follow "satanic creation" to memorize the entire Quran and even recite it in almost perfection every Ramadan prayer..
I understand what you trying to say, but most of the Huffaz after memorizing the Quran goes to study further about the Quran. Some of them can't because of financial problems.
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Peace armom.
Why do you consider memorising Qoran an issue for others?
GOD made it easy to memorise for everyone. Have you tried it?
While studying Qoran,I found myself memorising different verses, even though my Arabic was very poor. I then started a project of doing both, study and memorise.
It took me almost two years. Of course I found the challenge a bit difficult, especially the "HM" surahs, they repeat and one get them mixed up at first, but I found that Qoran makes it easy by repeating certain sounds of words to know how to follow verses by each other.
Praise be to GOD ,this helps me study when I am walking the dog or horse riding or even doing the shopping.
I am sure if I could do it .anyone would if they tried whether they know Arabic at first or they do not.
Try it and see how you get on.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace armom.
Why do you consider memorising Qoran an issue for others?
GOD made it easy to memorise for everyone. Have you tried it?
While studying Qoran,I found myself memorising different verses, even though my Arabic was very poor. I then started a project of doing both, study and memorise.
It took me almost two years. Of course I found the challenge a bit difficult, especially the "HM" surahs, they repeat and one get them mixed up at first, but I found that Qoran makes it easy by repeating certain sounds of words to know how to follow verses by each other.
Praise be to GOD ,this helps me study when I am walking the dog or horse riding or even doing the shopping.
I am sure if I could do it .anyone would if they tried whether they know Arabic at first or they do not.
Try it and see how you get on.
GOD bless you.
Peace.I congratulate you on your efforts, good logic. It is true that just without much trying one remembers things textually. It is very handy if you want to study and can't have the text all along with you.
Nowadays, as I said, we do not rely on memory at all. But centuries ago, where books had to be copied by hand, I am sure, memory was a very large repository of knowledge. If we think for instance, of catholics, not so long ago they could remember most of the most common texts by heart IN LATIN. It was the source of a lot of jokes, many quite irreverent jokes like ryming the latin with the Spanish to say things that were rather crude but made for laughs. I think that if I try I could still remember most of the mass.
S, in fact, if you are participating in the Qur'an recitings for years since childhood, you can propably keep in memory plenty of it. The Qur'an is world wide. Were there discrepancies, they would show very conspicuously from one place to another.But as I say, for me personally, not even that I find the most convincing, the most convincing is the text itself, which many times has surprised me by the cleverness of its formulations. I have been a trnaslator the greatest part of my life and I have to notice that kind of thing. I know there are Qura'nists and non Qura'nists that say that the Qur'an is not textually revealed, word by word. I do nto share that view. To be what it is and the way it is it must have been descended word by word. Which again is not surprising. Most sacred texts have been so, because they relied on the sounds, the cadences and the rythm to capture the participants, and in the case of the Qur'an, in my appreciation, precisely because of the exact formulation of everything, where if you chnange something it looses its scope, depth, precision... I thnak God, for it. It is the best weapon for a searching soul in a quest for truth in everything.
I will end with a beautiful aya
24.41
Do you not observe that all those who are in the heavens and the earth, and the birds with outspread wings, glorify Allah? Each one knows the mode of its prayer and glorification, and Allah has full knowledge of all they do. (41)
No trnaslation can render the the satisfaction, the majesty, the beauty, the thankfullness that spreads on one's being at reading and saying this. Glorified be He, our Creator and maintainer of everything and ourselves.
Salaam
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Peace huruf.
Thank you. I agree ,the Aya is an arrow directed at the simple heart. Hearts can melt with such ayat.I was saying to the brother it is no big deal memorising anything, GOD s gift to us of the mind/brain is amazing.
What is a big task is the study and understanding.
I have seen some parrots memorise some amazing speeches and saying them /singing them better than some humans.
Of course it is an advantage to be able to recall ayats in our memory, but with modern technology now ,we can recall anything at a touch of a button, with twice the speed of the brain!!
Also, an advantage of memorizing is the use of the "original Arabic" that can be crucial and can never be translated perfectly ,no matter how us humans try to with other languages.
Nowadays, in my old age, reciting Qoran from memory is helping me sleep...No need for a sleeping pill or worries!! Bliss and true meditation/healing.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
