Hafs or Warsh
-
I do not know whether it was in this thread or another, somebody said that there are may be 20 different versions of the Qur'an.
My questions which are those versions and what do the differences consist of?
Are any of those versions contradictory to one another?
Like a poster in another forum ferences, between hafs and warsh are very slight, like a synonym instead of another syninym, which give different nuances but which basically do not alter the fundamntal meaning.
So can anybody here quote two different versions of Qur'an, arabic Qur'an which differ to the point of being contradictory?
Salaam
-
Sister huruf, that is a very good point. And I agree that the differences are not impacting on the context . GOD s message is in all of them intact.
Nevertheless ,GOD has answered those who claim there are differences ,hence it is not from GOD.
It is clear there are verses in Qoran that point to GOD s design and perfection. GOD has sent words and preserved them in a master tablet. GOD has then issued a challenge in Qoran(In words and numerical composition) to those who still argue Qoran is not from GOD.
Of course there are also those who know /claim it is from GOD but refuse to accept the "number composition", claiming it is coincidence. GOD also knows this, that why the verses are there in Qoran.
All GOD is saying to all of us is that His scripture is "perfect and planned". GOD does not do errors. coincidence or mishaps.
GOD is perfect and does not err.
Those who listen to the message, accept it and apply it in their life do not have to worry about numbers or differences. Our minimum salvation depends on our deeds and intentions.
Fro me the instinct inside me is shouting this Qoran(When I read/study it) is from GOD regardless of numbers, proofs or differences in mushafs.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Thank you, good logic,
I agree with you on what we shoud do with the Qur'an.In my previous post I forgot to mention, that this friend poster I am referring too also said, that in fact those differences are provided by God Himself inthe sense that we may take it either way or both ways or the different ways which ay be complementary.
Reminds me of two translations of ra'uf into Spanish, one was a bit surprising, but looking at it carefully you realised that it was a nuance that might be lost int the other translation although on the whole the latter could be better or more to the point. But without that other more "surprising" translation in fact the reader was missing something.
As to numbers, myself I do not have any trouble believing that there is a numerical pattern in Qur'an, in fact I would be surprised if there was not. I mean, it is God, which computer in the highest fever could match that? Did He not create numbers and all ways of knowledge?
When it comes to which pattern is there in Qur'an, there may be many not just one. I do not know.
I do not have any quarrel with anybody attempting to find any pattern.
On the other hand I see in it a danger, which is the same danger I see when people try to pin on the Qur'an the latest (at that point) scientific knowledge. It can only be tentative. Knowledge evolves continually and we may tie the Qur'an to something which the Qur'an does not tie itself too, and that ends up turning people against Qur'an because a later knowledge goes against the previous knowledge and the pin the Qur'an to that previous knowledge.
I am sure the Qur'an is scientifically correct, but I doubt very much that we or when we do get it right from the Qur'an, because we are already molded to a previous knowledge and we impose this knowledge ont he Qur'an but we do not extract it from it. or we may feel enthusiastical about some theory and pin it on the Qur'an but in fact it may not be such a great theory after some time. We do not have to tie the Qur'an. We may count on it or get ideas from it, but e should not tie to our ork with such ideas. Qur'an is not there to teach science but to teach us to love knowledge, beauty and truth. The rest is for us to go through our different yihads.
Salaam
-
Yes sister huruf. Agreed.
There may be other secrets to come from Qoran in future. God s words do not run out.I know my brothers and sisters here are discussing in good spirit and fairly.
I hope ,at least those who know me from what I say ,are not taking my words as hostile ,personal or as idolising numbers or Qoran or anything other than my LORD Alone. I am stating my opinion and what I see.
I also look at what others say, if I failed to see their point of view it is not because I ignore what they say, but because, like them, I have not agreed with their opinion.
I do not see anything written by others as hostiles or against me personally. It is their right of expression like I have mine.In the end, it is what we get from Qoran and how we lead our life that is a priority.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
@ sister huruf
calculations and mathematics is a fact and yeh God is the creator of mathematics and the formulas of all mathematical issues are generated by God for humans.
But in all of it we need to understand the math of God is not = math of human
when the followers of RK will understand this thing they will understand the real mathso i agree with you the math of God is not only in quran but in everyfield of life math and calculations exist example if you try to built a building with wrong calculation the building will fell down same thing happen with the code believers prophet rk his wrong math took his life what a poor boy lol.
about the versions of quran even the article on freeminds got discrepencies in it the first time i read the hafs/warsh bullshit i lost my interest in it coz he was saying the numbered bismillah is the method of checkin its hafs or warsh. but to b honest the person research is weak in very fields like we already knows the earliest manuscripts proved therez nothing like numbering and vocal and chap names there. so again i ll say bring all versions and see the difference in words and meanings and then compare all of them together to see how many different qurans we have. and if u add all those later version by diff publishers u ll have atleast 10000 versions ( but from one speech) who claimed to have that speech from the creator of universe.
@ GL you need to read three four times to really understand what i was on about
about real quran and real human we go back to time to see things how they get evolved.
you are asking me about original copy sorry to say i dnt have an access to God supercomputer where that copy is saved in whatever language or communications style.about this quran what we reading today generated from a speech not from numbers so speech is to consider while finding a difference not numbers.
now you tell me by erasing some parts of speech adding numbers in to make a statement on the behalf of secondary sources makes a quran original ?
see my two years old post in which i told u how things get evolve quran also evolved by man made things and these man made made things are for every individual
even in school we provided by a same book but every student book is different than others by their own addings and highlighting with the help of pencil/pen to make that book understand.
silly questions always generate silly answers
all code beleivers answers about real math is silly and their questions are silly too which make a real mathematician feel funny same what i feel.the only question from me is why your prophet(rk)never knew all aspects of his own miracle muscle and he change his pattern consistently.
example look what he did with algebra elektro hail rotfl yay
double multiple of 19 AKA square of 19 hahaha to fit the calaculation in a way he wanted wtf hahahaha
he raped algebra by his stupidity
God bless you always.
-
Imran. I understand you The number composition gets on your nerve.
But I disagree with you. I do not follow RK or any human. I am checking everything myself.
May be your maths is so advanced you probably think I will not understand it since you have not provided it.
All I have seen in your posts is your opinion agreeing with others . Does that mean you follow others?
I hope you see what I am saying to you also.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
There is proverb, portuguese, I think, which says
God writes straight with twisted lines
Which I find it is another way of saying "everything is for good", even bad is for good, it depends on what we do with it.
And there is also a sufi tale whcih says a cheikh told a disciple to take a formidable stone and put it on the top of the mountain close by.
Years spent the disciple and did not get the damned stone even beyond close to the bottom and he complained the cheikh about his powerlessness to do what he was told.
The cheikh smiled (the bastard) and retorted
And who needs that stone on top of that mountain? Nobody,
But look at yourself, you were flimsy, without any stamina, no muscle no nothing. And look at yourself, you are strong, capable, disciplined, master of yourself...
There is your mountain which you have conquered.More or less, that is the gist of it.
Everything is for good. Even the useless is for good. Even mistakes are for good. We may be wrong but those wrongs are always the opportunity for something right we had not even imagined. Everywhere is God's kingdom, there is no where that it is not God's kingdom. Wherever we turn there is the face of God. God is the master teacher and wonder worker and shower.
We should not refrain from doing what we consider a good idea for fear of not being right. We will get something right even if it is not what we expected. Those are the gifts of God for our trust in life, in existence, in the ONE MIRACLE which is everything.
So numbers may be wrong, may be right, may be both, but if we trust that numbers will bring us something, God will give us our numbers, the lucky ones for us.
Subhanallah and alhamdulillah
Salaam
-
example look what he did with algebra
@ GL
please before passing the statements we should always look at the facts in hand
i provide you something but i feel u dnt have any answer for that or you dnt know real algebra?thats why i already gave u hint in advance to read my posts three four times.
thats why i said ?couple of years ago the debates were atleast worthy to read but now a days it looks funny. ?
God bless you
-
So numbers may be wrong, may be right, may be both, but if we trust that numbers will bring us something, God will give us our numbers, the lucky ones for us.
Subhanallah and alhamdulillah
Salaam
salam habibti, subhanAllah and mashAllah on your purposeful and meaningful words a lot for people who can ponder on every aspect of issue.
i see people who ask questions about number 19 they ask about what Good a number 19 can possibly bring ? any benefit ?
they dnt have the answer apart from same beating around the bush thats y i m bored to be honest.
-
Peace Imran.
What benefit code 19 brought? I see you want an answer to this question!You have to specify then?
Benefit to the soul? benefit to the mind? benefit to enjoy this life? benefit to salvation? benefit to understand Qoran?
Think properly before you answer!!!
I can ask a similar question
What benefit does the actual composition/arrangement of the surahs as we have them bring? Why do we have Qoran in this present arrangement?Look brother you say we have many versions, and some differ in spellings, some differ in words some in how many verses altogether in total.
So did GOD send all these different versions? Did GOD finish sending the warsh version ,then carried on with a little more verses to complete the hafs?
Or did GOD sent one verse at a time until the whole(1 book) was complete?
If that is the case ,then GOD sent one version!Do we have the means to find out (This generation) or did all generations before us had the means?
How do we find out? Would you agree about the three ways?
1-Find all the versions(including the one circulating at the time of the prophet ) and do a comparison.2-Filter all the true history ,use this and logic to come up with the copy
3-Use Mathematics (This generation have the means) . See if GOD has used mathematics to lock His scripture (This is the only fool proof way). The best way to write /dictate a book and make sure it is preserved totally for ever(every letter, every word, every chapter ) is to lock it mathematically.
Brother, think about this kind of 100% preservation?Of course you may add other methods if you can think of some?
Actually the number structure is just part of the arrangement of how the surahs have been ordered the way we have them today. So what benefit do you expect apart from the 100% way of preserving the text?
Or are you expecting a new ritual called code 19 ?
You see brother that question has no meaningin salvation terms. The benefit is in the message.Certainty about the message leads to following /taking the message seriously . This is the benefit being certain it is from GOD.
Of course you will say some are certain without numbers. Then all of us work hard towards our salvation and the issue is not so important.
But the argument of preservation is a very strong one/
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
My take is the witness is Rabbi Judah the Pious (11th Century A.D.), who discovered the same 19-based mathematical code in intact fragments of the Jewish scripture
peace, poor reading comprehension; again use "context and "tense" not auto-insert future numerologist.
3-Use Mathematics ... make sure it is preserved totally for ever(every letter, every word, every chapter ) is to lock it mathematically.
THEN show example lock verse 201 ta ha?
ELSE do not repeat false claim without proof!- Don?t come back we discussed since you or anyone NEVER showed proof!
- Don?t divert with questions before simply answering, NO you can't is fine!
BTW, in the oldest manuscripts it's consistently written as single verse 201-2
201 ta ha not descends we of upon you the qur?an to thou discontent
University of Birmingham Qur?an manuscript among world?s oldest
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-HDFiC2boQhttps//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/1?handschrift=56
https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/1/handschrift/107
https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/1?handschrift=141
https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/1?handschrift=163
https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/1?handschrift=173
-
Peace Noon.
Are you aware of this
https//submission.org/verify_writing_of_Alif_Yaa_and_Taa.htmlWhich "T" is it in chapter 20? Or are you going to argue for both "T" and "H"?
All these anomalies have been discussed in numerous threads with you and others.
There is more to come with the perfection of Mathematics( Quantum computers will also play their part in the future).
My maths and yours are primitive compared to GOD s.
Brother Noon ,you are very insisting after all these years, but your expertise (Maths) that you are claiming will turn against you .
Wait ,we are also waiting!
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Which "T" is it in chapter 20?
peace, use magnifier
https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/1?handschrift=281answer question use interlock/code or whatever to lock 201 ta ha?
it's ok to admit you don't know what you're talking about move on.
-
peace, use magnifier
https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/1?handschrift=281answer question use interlock/code or whatever to lock 201 ta ha?
it's ok to admit you don't know what you're talking about move on.
hahahahaha rotfl exactly
-
Peace Noon.
Why do you want my count? You need to check it. Here is how I counted so you can do the same
https//submission.org/verify_how_to_count_Quranic_initials.htmlYour question is not honest. You want to argue the case like you always do.
Besides you claim to know "19" better than anyone else. Are you stuck?
You do your count and I do mine.
I use hafs version and I am satisfied with my count.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Why do you want my count?
peace, didn't ask you to count letters or links to dumb websites.
it was asked show how it's locked to chapter verse 201 ta ha ?
is it combined single verse like in oldest manuscripts -- why not ?
201 ta ha not descends we of upon you the qur?an to thou discontent
-
it was asked show how it's locked to chapter verse 201 ta ha ?
is it combined single verse like in oldest manuscripts -- why not ?
noon bravo you smashed the idol name as code 19
theres a saying in my culture.
?becoming FOOL is more entertaining then making someone FOOL?
about this saying FOOL need time to understand the proverb first then the purpose of proverb although its a deep saying got meanings in it... -
I use hafs version and I am satisfied with my count.
peace GL
intresting to know HAFS version hmm ,,,
can i ask in your version there is any 128 and 129 verse in chapter 8/9?provide evidence of oldest manuscript in which these two verses missing ?
if not then your and all code 19 claims are fake as it based on proven lie.
-
Peace Noon.
The old manuscript has errors same as other manuscripts and you know that.
That old manuscript is not the original just like you are claiming other manuscripts with T H as a separate verse are not.You provide evidence it is the original copy and you will have a point.
If on the other hand you are claiming T H are not initials then provide their meaning?Are you sure you do not see the problem?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Imran.
Should it not be the other way around?
You provide ,with evidence, the original copy of the prophet with 128 and 129 in surah 9 in it and the matter will close.
Much simpler for you.
If on the other hand you say the high probability is that majority of mushafs contain 128 and 129,then I say the mathematical structure has a 100% probability that they do not.
Yours against mine?
GOD bless you.
Peace.