Hafs or Warsh

huruf

Peace reel..

Also memorisation is learnt from the mushafs that are available at the time.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Not necessarily or rather not. in a orld like today's where print is cheap, paper is cheap, everything is cheap to do relie on the written word ithout any need for memory whatsoever, es very different from another orld in hich there is no print, here not necessarily everybody knos ho to read and write.

Let us not forget that during thousands of years preservation of knowledge maoungst human kin dhas been done exclusively or greatly through oral trnasmission.

In fact hen I was a child, there as still a certain love for learning literature by heart. I still remember the poetry I learn in school to recite. I loved it and I do remember every single poem i learnt. Poetru is particularly apt to rmeember since it has the rythm and musicality.

I would never ignore oral transmission.

From all I have ben able to ascertain, the Qur'an was transmitted through two separate and simultaneous channels, oral and written. Committed to memory and commited to paper or equivalent.

Salaam

good_logic

Peace huruf.
So there were two different memorisations
1- During the prophet s time. As the verses were being sent.
2- After the new arrangement of the surahs,the arrangement we have today.
I am not ignoring oral transmissions. I want to make sure the two transmissions have identical contents. A perfectly logical question to ask.
Especially when there is an issue with the history?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

imrankhawaja

Peace Imran.
I have answered both you and brother Noon.

peace GL,

WRONG answers , reason = either you dnt understand the question or you dnt wana understand the questions.. yeah

Give your history/evidence of your oldest manuscript.

MY oldest manuscript huh ?...

rotfl rotfl rotfl

(BTW brother NOON already provided you lot of earliest manuscripts) in which he smashed code 19 like idols lol i rate him for his hardwork .. and about all code 19ers a curse on mathematics .. and defame for mathematics a danger for mathematics society by silly math what never found anywhere hahahaha

2 works
one by noon ( give us lot of knowlege, evolution process things and lot more)
one by coders(gives us lot of confusion, tell wrong math and algebra, making statements as fact from secondary sources and lot more things ).

If it is the original copy at the time of the prophet,then it will be the one with no errors. The matter will be settled both ways for me and you.

exactly lets go this way if you had that copy then you never debated on imaginary code..
if you dnt have that copy then its responsibility of the claimant to bring that copy if not then the facts of matter will be decided on the earliest manuscript found till date ...

and there is 0 evidence from earliest manuscript about your claim (NOT mY mAnuscripts) rotfl

Otherwise it remains a claim from you and brother Noon.

dnt you have little bit knowledge of "LAW" ?

the burden of proof is on one who challenge the already going on LAW

read post 34 again u still not understanding and bringing these topics here but i again clear your position on debate.

"YOU claimed SOMETHING and then you contradict yourself " (all code believers need to understand this becoz its an addiction for them to contradict themselves on plenty of occasions.)

have a good day

imrankhawaja

Unfortunately there are no recording of early memorisations to check this .

REEL you should know voice recorders just invented in 19th century so its false claim elektro all electricity is the invention of 19th century

Also memorisation is learnt from the mushafs that are available at the time.

wrong answers again..

in my childhoood i dnt know how to read and write but i still remember my mother teach me short chapters of quran what i remember by heart till now i remember them and now i can also write them and record them with 100 % accuracy..

oral when transfer to writing become a book.. ( very simple understanding)

before you asking the proof lem me tell you something about physics and possibilty of voice recovering if coders are that intelligent they can go back to time and then retrieve the voices from prophet times (if only they can do it)

BTW i know how to retreat my data lost in my hard disk deleted by some satanist lol i m a computer guy so i know my field well..(only apply when he also deleted from recycle bin)

coders need to know their field atleast they need to know simple math how its work.

good_logic

Peace Imran.
Just give me the history of the oldest manuscript that you say exist and has no errors? Or have you not checked it?
And have you checked the link I gave you about the copy that the prophet wrote?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

good_logic

Peace Imran
You say, quote
oral when transfer to writing become a book.. ( very simple understanding)

Are you sure? Here is my question to you
Qoran had two different arrangements One during the time of the prophet and one after, Where are the two books then?

Is this not logical to ask brother?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

imrankhawaja

simple yes or no @ GL

who calimed something ? you (yes)
who need history for their claim? You (yes)

burden of proof is on who ? you ( yes)
did u understand it all ? yes or no ( i m not sure)

good_logic

Peace Imran.
What do you mean claim?
I have provided you with my take on "purify your garments" of surah 74.- i.e the mathematical structure of Qoran- and given you tools to check it yourself.
You have to do the work. Or ignore completely .
You say there is no maths code/structure, arguing with old manuscripts without bringing the history/evidence of their origin.
That is where we are brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

reel

Peace reel..
Unfortunately there are no recording of early memorisations to check this .
Also memorisation is learnt from the mushafs that are available at the time.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

No bro. I was taught certain chapters orally during bedtime. I was just an infant back then. Didn't know how to read and write.

good_logic

Peace reel.
I am not saying one needs to read and write to memorise Qoran.
I am saying we memorise what we are given to memorise. Or do you check it first?
So I am asking are the two memorisations of the two different arrangements of Qoran identical to the letter?
Also as you know, some memorise hafs and others memorise warsh .And we know for a fact these are not identical to the letter.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Noon_waalqalami

So I am asking are the two memorisations of the two different arrangements of Qoran identical to the letter?

Peace, perhaps study more and like prayer post less until you know what you're talking about.

If talking about "man-made" verse arrangements there are ?many? while text is relatively same.

Example (no code else would show up on repeated verses 300+) or show us ?imaginary? code?

Current manuscript/s inconsistent extra alif in verse 1748 which is repeated verbatim in 299 ?

1748
150900200 201080 800200261 3020 130140500130 808003061 80301 106040091070650 60210301

150900200 201080 800200261 3020 13014050030 808003061 80301 106040091070650 60210301
259

While the oldest manuscripts are more consistent ?

1748 observe how strike they of to you l-amthla/the examples so astray they of so not capable being path of
259 observe how strike they of to you l-amthla/the examples so astray they of so not capable being path of

https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/17/vers/48/handschrift/163

https//i.postimg.cc/QMvTz8xD/ch17v46-57.jpg

https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/25/vers/9/handschrift/163

https//i.postimg.cc/vBR4z03H/ch25v8-20.jpg

good_logic

Peace Noon.
You say ,quote
While the oldest manuscripts are more consistent ?

Provide the original verse(174 that the prophet wrote when Qoran was being revealed, then we can be certain about the Alif?
Can t you find that copy, the one that should have come before all these old manuscripts?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Noon_waalqalami

peace gl, your infatuation with nineteen is making you lose sense of basic logic.
it's not about original (same word/phrases need to be consistent) see examples.

NOT consistent extra alif 130140500130 in current manuscript/s and should be...

1317 ... yaribu/striketh the god l-amthla/the examples
1425 ... wayaribu/and striketh the god l-amthla/the examples
1445 ... waarabn/and strike we of for you l-amthla/the examples
1674 so not tarib/thou strike ye of to god l-amthla/the examples
1748 observe how arab/strike they of to you l-amthla/the examples so astray they of so not capable being path of

These verses consistent in current manuscript/s (no extra alif) as in oldest manuscripts...

259 observe how arab/strike they of to you l-amthla/the examples so astray they of so not capable being path of
2435 ... wayaribu/and striketh the god l-amthla/the examples
2539 ... arabn/strike we of to him l-amthla/the examples
2943 and those l-amthlu/the examples naribuh/we strike them to the humankind and not understand them except the knowing
5921 ... and those l-amthlu/the examples naribuh/we strike them to the humankind perhaps they reflecting

good_logic

Peace Noon.
Again you are saying this, quote
NOT consistent extra alif 130140500130 in current manuscript/s and should be...

You are not coming up with the history why the old manuscripts are the original.

After all if you are claiming letters were added to the current ones, then how was Qoran in your view preserved?

If on the other hand you are saying most or all the old manuscript have not got the added letter , then bring also the original verses written before the new arrangement to compare?

If you are saying they added letters and number verses in the new versions, the way the alphabet evolved and the numbering of verses were introduced , then how do you reconcile the preservation?

For you, the only way to make sure is by comparison of the before and after the arrangement verses are compared.

For me, Qoran s verses are saying to us GOD has preserved His letters, words chapter and arrangement (Jamaahu) with a mathematical structure. Impossible to change the original tablet/composition of the book.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

imrankhawaja

peace gl, your infatuation with nineteen is making you lose sense of basic logic
it's not about original (same word/phrases need to be consistent) see examples.

brother instead of telling math we need to educate brother GL something what he always avoid same happen with this of your post.

SEE the brackets GL use magnifer it will help.

example

book x 1st version God is One
book x 2nd version God is not one.

book y 1st version God is one
book y 2nd version God is one
book y 3 till 1000th version God is one.

@ GL now collect all the older versions and find us a difference ?
not those difference what we already discussed that never change the meanings as full.

now its your take. i m educating u as well as a brother. usually people who have interest in math have brain. but now i undertand coders are fake mathematicians thats y they are dumb to understand simple logic. and simple posts and simple questions.

good_logic

Peace Imran.
Give me a comparison with the copy of the prophet. Or a copy that existed during the prophet s time.
Then we can see the consistency of the old manuscripts?
This method is the only fool proof one if you discount the mathematical structure.
You say I cannot use a certain mushaf that is not "consistent" but you use one/ones that you have not provided history/evidence for that is /or comes from the original?
What is this logic then?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

imrankhawaja

For me, Qoran s verses are saying to us GOD has preserved His letters, words chapter and arrangement (Jamaahu) with a mathematical structure. Impossible to change the original tablet/composition of the book.

Add more things
for you ( dnt know the method what need to apply)
for you ( method is not consistent)
for you (method and claims depend on secondary sources)
example if he never find out added verses from hadith he never make a claim !

more examples like spell noon as nwn and double multiple of 19 no answers so far?

lot more things but to be honest when u have lot of drawbacks in your theory how can u carry on debating things without solving these apparent issues ?
thats how you ll tell people about math of quran when u guys dnt even know what u did with math?

how you teach somebody when u by yourself dnt know WHAT to teach ?
but before teaching WHAT to teach we always need to know HOW to teach ? make sense

good_logic

Peace Imran.
You say, quote

Add more things
for you ( dnt know the method what need to apply)
for you ( method is not consistent)
for you (method and claims depend on secondary sources)
example if he never find out added verses from hadith he never make a claim

I say that I am satisfied with what I have checked. And I have given you the link/tools to do the same. If it is an issue for you ,it is not for me.

As for, what you say here, quote
more examples like spell noon as nwn and double multiple of 19 no answers so far?

You have missed my answer, here it again

GOD has decided to spell the only two letter N in Qoran as NUN and gave us the explanation why and the hints.
One of them in 2187
The other one in 681
And the hint is the subject of 2187 and 68 48
Dha Nun and Sahibi Al Hut . GOD could have easily said Jonah in both but did not Why?
Because of the logical explanation tokeep with the numerical structure of His book. As it happens both and have letters that fit it in with the structure locking the whole book .
Still have an issue?
Then give me your take on why did GOD spell the letter N in 2187 as NUN? And why in only the two verses GOD is calling Jonah other than his real name?

Because you will come back here saying N in 681 is spelt as N and it is consistent in all the old manuscripts and we will end up going in a circle because you are not providing the history/evidence linking to the original copy.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

imrankhawaja

GOD has decided to spell the only two letter N in Qoran as NUN and gave us the explanation why

brilliant so u know what God decided yay
Did God personally told you about this ?

where r tbe explaination of why he decide to write in such a way ? evidence plz

good_logic

Peace Imran.
I have cited the verses for you. I have given you my take on it .
I have asked your take on it?
GOD bless you.
Peace.