The meaning "headcover" for Khimar or Khumur could possiblly be a extrapolation.
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Head covering was a part of female garment in many pre-Islamic cultures. Among the causes, I would underline two possible reasons for that, which are socio-cultural, another symbolic reason. Socio-culturally it was to differentiate between women 'available to the public' and "respected" (read owned) women (such as Ancient Greece). Symbolic meaning of this is mind control, of the lunar-feminine mind. This comes from the most ancient practice of head-covering, when it was introduced, either Akkadian times (probably) and Ancient Egypt. A lot of the current forum's users wear khimar, not even acknowledging the fact that their minds are covered.
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Salam/Peace Rilum.
I should post the root words of sha'r & rs so that we have knowledge of them
sha'r
Shiin-Ayn-Ra ( ر = to know/perceive/understand, to acquaint, perceive by senses.
make verses, remark, poetry, poet, verse, art of poetry, feeling, knowledge.
Sirius, which was worshipped by the Arabs in Pagan times.
mark/marker/signs/rites/symbols/observances/ceremonies/practices, the obligatory ordinances/statutes of God.
a place where a thing is known to be.
measure of length.
sheep/goat.
hair, innermost garment.
trees.
a sign of people in war and in a journey, a call or cry by means of which to know another, banner.
mash'ar al-Haram - holy mosque in Muadhalifah (a place which lies between Makkah and Arafat, six miles from Kabah). The name Mash'ar al-Haram is a compound of Mash'ar meaning the place of perception or knowledge and Haram meaning sacred. Ash'ara to make anyone understand, make known to.sha'ara vb. (I) - 29, 212, 2154, 369, 626, 6123, 795, 1215, 12107, 1621, 1626, 1645, 2356, 26113, 26202, 2718, 2750, 2765, 289, 2811, 2953, 3925, 3955, 4366, 492,
ash'ar n.m. (pl. of sha'r) - 1680,
mash'ar n.m. - 2198,
sha'air n.f. (pl. of shi'arah) - 2158, 52, 2232, 2236,
sha'ir n.m. (pl. shu'ara) - 2158, 52, 2232, 2236,
sha'ir n.m. (pl. shu'ara) - 215, 26224, 3736, 5230, 6941,
shi'r n.m. - 3669,
shi'ra n. prop. - 5349,
ash'ara vb. (IV) - 6109, 1819LL, V4, p 283, 284, 285, 286 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=sh3r
Ra-Alif-Siin ( س = head, head/chief/commander/ruler/governor/prince, strike on the head, set any one over, become high in rank/condition, highest or uppermost part, the capital/principal of money, the beginning or first part, numerous and strong company of people.
ras n.m. (pl. ru'us) 2196, 2196, 2279, 56, 7150, 1236, 1241, 1443, 1751, 194, 2094, 2165, 2219, 3212, 3765, 4448, 4827, 635
LL, V3, p 161, 162 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=ras
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A lot of the current forum's users wear khimar, not even acknowledging the fact that their minds are covered.
Who?
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Arab men also wear headcovers but they don't call it khimar or hijab (commonly called kafiya) and no idea how long they have been doing it.
The sectarians use "history" that women wore headcover during Prophet's time but i have not seen any evidence as of now.
Do you want hadith evidence?
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ used to offer the Fajr prayer and some believing women covered with their veiling sheets used to attend the Fajr prayer with him and then they would return to their homes unrecognized - Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 1, Book 8, Hadith # 368
This just implies they covered themselves for prayer. There is prob others, just depends what you're looking for.
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one traditional act called as "HONOUR KILLING" is a key to understand the myth of headcover rules and regulation.
started from different levels of covers from head to full face ..
honour killing also started from different levelsin some honourable tribes if a girl speak with a man .. honour killing is due on the protectors/guardians of that girl (ratio = low)
in some honourable tribes if a girl be friend with a man ... honour killing is due. (ratio = medium)
in some honourable tribes if a girl make a relation with a man... honour killing is due (ratio = high)
in some honourable tribes if a girl kiss to men ... honour killing is due (ratio = very high
in some honourable tribes if a girl intercoruse with men... honour killing is due (ratio= extremely high and unable to forgive her)people try to protect their womens by covering them behind mental bars.. and this forceful action is a fashion of todays world
millions of people are engage in business related with head scarfs peace
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Do you want hadith evidence?
No. That is something different. Besides, isn't the hadith collection is not the original version?
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one traditional act called as "HONOUR KILLING" is a key to understand the myth of headcover rules and regulation.
started from different levels of covers from head to full face ..
honour killing also started from different levelsin some honourable tribes if a girl speak with a man .. honour killing is due on the protectors/guardians of that girl (ratio = low)
in some honourable tribes if a girl be friend with a man ... honour killing is due. (ratio = medium)
in some honourable tribes if a girl make a relation with a man... honour killing is due (ratio = high)
in some honourable tribes if a girl kiss to men ... honour killing is due (ratio = very high
in some honourable tribes if a girl intercoruse with men... honour killing is due (ratio= extremely high and unable to forgive her)people try to protect their womens by covering them behind mental bars.. and this forceful action is a fashion of todays world
millions of people are engage in business related with head scarfs peace
That term "honor killing" made by some certain traditionalists is nothing but a lie. There is no honor in murder.
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This is something interesting from https//factszz.wordpress.com/2014/06/01/does-noble-quran-ordain-a-lady-to-cover-her-head-or-her-face-read-the-truth/
(Responding to a Fanatic) +Hi Taif alraisi
Like millions of blindly following fanatics and evil Mullahs and Imams, u are another Jahil or Jahila who is playing with verses of Quran in order to enforce agenda of ur Ibleesian Mullahs and Imams in Islam. In verse 2431, Quran is not saying draw their khimar over their Chest?. Quran is saying ?COVER UR CHEST?. For the sake of argument even if we take ur twisted-translation, even thu, Quran is ordaining to lady to cover chest and NOT HEAD nor face. In Arabic Head is ?RAAS? and the word Raas is not used in this noble verse and Allah has no shortage of words. If U jaahil has even basic understanding of roots of Arabic Language, then read below, how Quran beautifully explains itself. Quran has its own built-in dictionary and therefore, Quran is ABSOLUTELY not in need of any external source. Read below, how u have twisted verse 2431 and how ur Satanic Mullahs Sectarian Mushrik translators and Imams do so tooVerse 2431 walYadribna biKhumurihinna
Persian Zoroastrian Hadith Imams, blindly-following Mullahs & fanatics so called scholars tried to apply their satanic self-made religion to Quran and changed the meaning of words (446; 513; 541). *They tried to change the meaning of the Arabic word ?khumur = covers? in 2431 into ?head covers?. The word ?khumur? is a plural noun that comes from the root word of ?khamara? which means ?to cover?. The singular form of the same word ?khamr?, has been used for intoxicants which ?cover? the mind (590). In verse 2431, God commands female believers to maintain their chastity and put their covers on their chests, not their heads! Additionally, the word ?fel yedribne = they shall put? is significant in that verse. If Mushrik-hadithers were correct, instead of this word, ?fel yudnine = they shall lengthen? (like in 3359) would have been used. *
Verse 3359, never talks about to cover head but tells to lengthen ur garments. So Skirt or mini skirt or naked arms are not allowed.
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Yes hadiths were recorded later and they are not original. Muhammad Asad writes a little on the history if you read the commentary on 2431
The noun khimar (of which khumur is the plural) denotes the head-covering customarily used by Arabian women before and after the advent of Islam. According to most of the classical commentators, it was worn in pre-Islamic times more or less as all ornament and was let down loosely over the wearer?s back; and since, in accordance with the fashion prevalent at the time, the upper part of a woman?s tunic had a wide opening in the front, her breasts cleavage were left bare. Hence, the injunction to cover the bosom by means of a khimar, (a term so familiar to the contemporaries of the Prophet) does not necessarily relate to the use of a khimar as such but is, rather, meant to make it clear that a woman?s breasts are not included in the concept of "what may decently be apparent" of her body and should not, therefore, be displayed.(Quran Ref 2431 )
other history info.. apparently pre-islamic arabs used to bear their breast to encourage men at the battles/war, see link
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Yes hadiths were recorded later and they are not original. Muhammad Asad writes a little on the history if you read the commentary on 2431
The noun khimar (of which khumur is the plural) denotes the head-covering customarily used by Arabian women before and after the advent of Islam. According to most of the classical commentators, it was worn in pre-Islamic times more or less as all ornament and was let down loosely over the wearer?s back; and since, in accordance with the fashion prevalent at the time, the upper part of a woman?s tunic had a wide opening in the front, her breasts cleavage were left bare. Hence, the injunction to cover the bosom by means of a khimar, (a term so familiar to the contemporaries of the Prophet) does not necessarily relate to the use of a khimar as such but is, rather, meant to make it clear that a woman?s breasts are not included in the concept of "what may decently be apparent" of her body and should not, therefore, be displayed.(Quran Ref 2431 )
other history info.. apparently pre-islamic arabs used to bear their breast to encourage men at the battles/war see
https//www.google.co.uk/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=arab+women+baring+breasts+before+battlesSorry if i am picky or missing something but isn't Muhammad Asad have a bit of hadith influence? Because he mentions "According to most of the classical commentators" which means that he is using information from Tafsirs from 2 or 3 centuries after the Prophet's time and wouldn't Asad be violating 6116?
6116
Wa-in tutiAA akthara man fee al-ardiyudillooka AAan sabeeli Allahi in yattabiAAoona illaalththanna wa-in hum illa yakhrusoona
And if you obey most/majority of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.Plus this doesn't exactly fit the meaning "headcover" due to the head/rs ( - i found it in 2094) or hair/sha'r ( - i found it in 1680) occur in 2431 nor 3353 as i showed above. I hope i'm not being mean towards to you dear sister. Apologies if i did. Salam/Peace and Allah/God (SWTAY) bless you. group
By the way, the link is sadly not working but baring their breasts for their warriors? Isn't that a bit distracting?
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All translations have flaws, and Asad is no exception. Sometimes in ne thing one does better other times it is the other way around, but Asad is not more hadithist than any other, and he has plenty of bottom page notes where he explains and in that snese he is very honest inthe sense that he writes what he writes but no matter hat he writes he wants the reader to be aware of the background and what is said and done even where he does not follow.
With some translators I find that they make mistakes, some pretty awful, but they are honest and one must respect that.
Salaam
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Salam
My bad, try the link again.
Sure Muhammad Asad has a bit of hadith influence, doesn't mean his work is rubbish. As for the meaning to fit, it's just an interpretation. there isn't any mentioning of head or hair in 2431 but my understanding is Muhammad Asad isn't forcing the notion of headcover but emphasising the verse advice for covering the breasts.
Yeah sure it could be a distraction if it's during the war but I imagined it's their way of sending them off
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By the way one of the reason i started this discussion was because of a post in 2007 that went heated. There was a fight between ImamQuranOnly & tanveermd. IQO kept saying that "headscarf" was the original meaning but the root word definition of Khimar or Khumur is to cover something. Tanveermd responded and well...i think you should see the event. Tanveer started his first comment (could be wrong) here https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14453.120
Sorry if i bring up old events. Just wanna clear my head.
By the way something interesting by brother Wakas
Additional notes for Arabic readers
The word "khumur" is used in 2431 and can be the plural of "khimaar" or "khimirr", and can mean any cover made of cloth or headcover, according to Classical Arabic dictionaries and Traditional Ahadith/Narrations (see Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 282). Please note the Arabic preposition "bi" meaning "with" in "bikhumurihinna", which means they are to cover their chests with their "khumur/covers/headcovers". The usage of preposition "bi" is different to the preposition "min" as used in 3359 "min jalabeebihinna" which means to use a part of their "jilbab/outer-garment" in the modification suggested, i.e. not all of it has to be lowered or drawn near, just part of it. In 2431 if God intended that part of it (e.g. headcover) stays on the head and part of it be used to cover the bosom, it would have been more appropriate to use "min khumurhinna". Furthermore, the word "yadribna" as used in 2431 has no connotation of lengthening or lowering in any other occurrence, unlike "yudneena" in 3359 which does, thus would have been more appropriate to use.
Even if "khumur" is taken to mean "headcovers" it should be noted that the order is to cover the chest, not the head - of course, one may cover their head if they wish.EDIT I forgot to mention about what Samia said about Lisan Al-Arab stating on KH-M-R "it is said...". Here is the source
Salaam Wakas
In fact, the whole qur'aan is addressing both genders in the generic male form, except when it is addressing specific females (e.g wives of the prophet; mariam..). In other words, it addresses the generic male, exceptionally gendered male and gendered female.
However, I think I understand what you mean. Is verse 55; 629 something you are looking for?
Men headcover.
Lisaanul3arab says under "khimaar"
For men cover of the head; for women it is called "naSeef".
Looking up "naSeef"
It is said that it is the head cover, but the famous poet Annaabighal Thubiaani used it to mean something like a "sarong". Another linguist says it is an "overall", worn over all the woman's clothes.It seems that lisaanul3arab does not have a clear cut meaning for "head cover for women", it just says "it is said that..". However, it is used in hadeeth literature as head cover for men (specifically mentioned in relation to the prophet) according to lisaanul3arab
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I wonder if someone have grammatically refuted the traditionalists claim of walYadribna biKhumurihinna AAala juyoobihinna ( ن
Novice my good friend. Could you help a friend out? ;D
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Novice my good friend. Could you help a friend out? ;D
I meant that about your skills in Arabic grammar by the way. )
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I wonder if someone have grammatically refuted the traditionalists claim of walYadribna biKhumurihinna AAala juyoobihinna ( ن
Novice my good friend. Could you help a friend out? ;D
Salaam Brother The Sardar
I will try to convey what I understand so far
and let them dharaba with their covering on their breasts
Dharaba can be understood in the context as "cover". Khumar is something that covers. Intoxicants are also called khumur as they cover one's aql.
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Salaam Brother The Sardar
I will try to convey what I understand so far
and let them dharaba with their covering on their breasts
Dharaba can be understood in the context as "cover". Khumar is something that covers. Intoxicants are also called khumur as they cover one's aql.
Wouldn't dharaba be "spreading" or something?
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Wouldn't dharaba be "spreading" or something?
Dharaba has the root meaning of "striking" and derived meaning should reflect the root meanings.
Dharaba fil ardh means travelling but it got the sense of striking of feet etc on the land;
Wadhrib lahum mathala means, strike for them an example. It becomes meaningful to say "give them an example";
Dharaba altairu means bird went out in search of rizq.
In 2431 dharaba gives a sense of striking over their breasts some cover, which means to cover their breasts with some covering. Spreading has different meaning.
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In 2431 dharaba gives a sense of striking over their breasts some cover, which means to cover their breasts with some covering. Spreading has different meaning.
Maybe, by the way if the word was yudneena (ن from 3359 instead of walyadribna (ن, would it be something different?
I am referring to this
(Responding to a Fanatic) +Hi Taif alraisi
Like millions of blindly following fanatics and evil Mullahs and Imams, u are another Jahil or Jahila who is playing with verses of Quran in order to enforce agenda of ur Ibleesian Mullahs and Imams in Islam. In verse 2431, Quran is not saying draw their khimar over their Chest?. Quran is saying ?COVER UR CHEST?. For the sake of argument even if we take ur twisted-translation, even thu, Quran is ordaining to lady to cover chest and NOT HEAD nor face. In Arabic Head is ?RAAS? and the word Raas is not used in this noble verse and Allah has no shortage of words. If U jaahil has even basic understanding of roots of Arabic Language, then read below, how Quran beautifully explains itself. Quran has its own built-in dictionary and therefore, Quran is ABSOLUTELY not in need of any external source. Read below, how u have twisted verse 2431 and how ur Satanic Mullahs Sectarian Mushrik translators and Imams do so tooVerse 2431 walYadribna biKhumurihinna
Persian Zoroastrian Hadith Imams, blindly-following Mullahs & fanatics so called scholars tried to apply their satanic self-made religion to Quran and changed the meaning of words (446; 513; 541). *They tried to change the meaning of the Arabic word ?khumur = covers? in 2431 into ?head covers?. The word ?khumur? is a plural noun that comes from the root word of ?khamara? which means ?to cover?. The singular form of the same word ?khamr?, has been used for intoxicants which ?cover? the mind (590). In verse 2431, God commands female believers to maintain their chastity and put their covers on their chests, not their heads! Additionally, the word ?fel yedribne = they shall put? is significant in that verse. If Mushrik-hadithers were correct, instead of this word, ?fel yudnine = they shall lengthen? (like in 3359) would have been used. *
Verse 3359, never talks about to cover head but tells to lengthen ur garments. So Skirt or mini skirt or naked arms are not allowed.
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Maybe, by the way if the word was yudneena (ن from 3359 instead of walyadribna (ن, would it be something different?
I am referring to this
comes from root which have meaning of "nearness". would mean as per root to bring near.
3359
Oh nabi say to your azwaj and women of the momineen to bring their outer garments close to them.
2431 is commanding to cover the breasts
3359 is commanding to cover their body when outside for their identification as gentle women so no one tease them.
This is what is my understanding from the root of the words used.
Salaam
