Nature of Satan
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your question is logical and important, @ kaltun
as we see according to text he asked the permission from his LORD/manufacturer to give him TIME or CONTROL untill the day when planet earth will expire. so he was granted.
you can get that answer from text but my question is a real thing to ponder ust think about it...
what if IBLESS want to seek forgiveness or he do TOBA ? as we know God is all merciful
and if he do toba and HUMANity still have a purpose?
will he b forgiven ?
if Progeny of IBLESS and progeny of ADAM work together they can easily pass the stage of games / level of grades / rewards whatever required for acquiring so called paradise yhen i think everybody will b chilling ? (but just due to one supreme controller we cant chill)when this question come the story teller whoever yhey are never think all
that blame is going on master controller of situation ? so i highly doubt about that story and yhe parts pf that story dosent really make sense and if something doesnt make sense its not from the real CREATOR -
Peace HAWK,
lets use malaika FOR angels in your interpretation.
ok
234 And We said to the malaika "Yield to Adam," so they yielded except for ibless, he refused and became arrogant, and became of the rejecters.
is (wakana) was, were, became or is?
points to noted..
it ADRESSED to all malaika including
malaika = IBLESS (duties =unknown), production material (NAAR)very interesting hmm
lets move on to 1850 now..
1850 When We said to the controllers "Submit to Adam." They all submitted except for Satan, he was of the Jinn, so he disobeyed the order of his Lord. "Will you take him and his progeny as allies besides Me, while they are your enemy?" Miserable for the wicked is the substitute
Again were have the word (kana) does it mean was, were, is, or became.
NOW i ll gona bring 16 49 and something i just discovered now..
1649 To God prostrate all those in the heavens and all those on the earth, from the creatures as well as the controllers, and they are not arrogant.
i m stuck here if this verse is saying no one can go against God.. either its controller or creatures.. then we are in a big ILLUSION.
as we know lot of humans and jinns and one of the controller(JIN) already disobeyed... even first human disobeyed...
adam n eve is the biggest ever myth i had in my life.. every single time i think about it research about it.. i feel there is something fishy.
Nothing disobeys Allah (SWT) as per Quran, the ayats of the Quran explain
reality, that is, what Iblis represents and what Adam represents.And verily We have displayed for mankind in this Qur'an all manner of
similitudes, (mathalin) but man is more than anything contentious.brother hawk,
people dnt know the nature of angels apart from the concept of light ..
thats why i said leave that traditional angel at side and see what people think and debate ..understood
ibless was angel ( he was creation of light) then he became jinn ( creation of fire) ? is that you are trying to say.. ?
No I have not found the description of light as per Quran, Iblis was angel,
loss status as angel that's were my understanding ends.My question is
Was Iblis type of Malika who was inherently not suited to yield to humans
and it became obvious when the creation of man was announced or was
the nature of Iblis "changed" because of the creation of man?714 He said, "Grant me respite until the day they are resurrected?"
715 He said "You are granted."
716 He said "For that which You have caused me to be misled, I will stalk for them on Your straight path."so its mean he is still asking something from God.. mean he is not a disbeliever, he believes in God and his believe was not even a blind belief like us ?
and he is blaming God as well, what going on.. ?
in all this story its appears to me.. God is causing trouble between creations of FIRE and CLAY ?
Yes all submit to God, even Iblis. This creation has cause and effect,
positive and negative, Free will, Iblis is an integral and essential part
of this reality.And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a
loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient,
Who, when disaster strikes them, say, "Indeed we belong to Allah ,
and indeed to Him we will return."peace
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This one is interesting, made by History channel..
History Channel The Origin and Evolution of Satan
https//youtu.be/9TICXpY6B3wIf Satan really exist and he possess characteristics as described in the Bible + Quran + Talmud + Hadith (in short based on legends of the Semites). Then there's no need to worry of having him (or her) as adversary.
As it's told that Satan is Arrogant and Proud.Arrogance and Ignorance goes hand in hand and Fall always come after the Pride.
He will underestimate his adversary, and being proud, he always failed to recognize any weakness within himself nor strength within his adversary, thus he never evolve for the better compared to his adversary. While his adversary as time progress will become stronger and better than himself.If any of you have enemies / adversaries / competitors. Keep a close eyes on those who are humble.. as they are far more dangerous than those who are arrogant and proud.
Having said that, a humble enemies are indeed worthy enemies, certainly deserves your respect.
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brother hawk you mixed my old post with your new. lol
you quoted me twice on same post i have a new post after that post. i just looked it now.
i think we will discuss it more i made a thread about all data about of root JNN. -
Satan, Iblis, Lucifer, and Shayton are names for the same being and the most we know is that he used to be an angel according to ayat like 234 that say, "And We said to the angels "Yield to Adam," so they yielded except for Satan, he refused and became arrogant, and became of the rejecters." And that he's made of fire (712) which implies that he's a jinn and maybe an Ifriti. No human on earth can say anything for certain beyond that because even the jinn that talk about him during exorcisms or to satanists could be lying and there's no way for us to verify any other details since he's invisible to us. And I don't see why it would matter.
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It appears my new technic of responding needs work ;D
this thing once asked from me "get down from here" its not that hard to tackle though..
example if somebody's in fort and king order him get down/descend/get away from here .. its just the way how author select the words..
Maybe, the whole get down to the earth physically is the position of many.
people usually think earth is on ground level and heaven/paradise is on 2nd, 3rd, fourth floor thats not the case..thats why they take this desending physically..
something like that.
after thinking and reading a lot, different NEW things comes in mind whenever u read that story, it appears its a metaphorical story in shape of lesson about the nature and properties of human bodies(provided with characters) weakness, intelligence, secured future, desires, fear of losing something, are described in a story manner.
Yes, I've concluded that it is an expose' of human and jinn nature.
whatever is to me doesnt really matter brother..i m gone far away now.
the only blind following thing was quran in my life but true creator give me lessons of life i applied some rules from that book that turn my tables upside down,once i was blind followed my nation,family,values,fika BUT slowly slowly i learn a painful truth, it was a pain for a bit but then i realise its good that i discover the truth/or their hidden side before i waste more time..
then i suddenly discover freeminds several years ago.. from then only blind faith if i got was QURAN.. (was still in me) but unfortunately things are not going in line (lot of things) ..
if God wills to misguide someone there is none can guide him(in case of quran) if he wills to misguide me by the painful memories of my life and if he wills to bring negative results from my faith upon quran , then as a human nature i cant help myself , either the pressure of thinking make me insane so better not to think about it( means a distance from all religious dogmas)
is that possible when there was banu abbasi era was goin on people/scholars change the meanings of something to something else and install it in a dictionary and its no way back to check either whats the truth behind that word? that first thing come in my mind when i had failed experiments from advices of quran.. i m helpless in this , if i m going on wrong path i also know therez nothing that can change me apart from creator.. so lets see where i end.
honesty and blind faith = (DANGEROUS combination)
actually what i get from text , there was not any previous nature of ibless, he was always naar , and he is naar..
about label/status we can say God blessed him some features what controllers got it like any controlling powers..
its like a police department.. once a human/jinn/(any being) was controller of traffic/crimes..and then he refused to obey the rules/commands/system and he get suspended/disqualified/sacked ...
now he will do the crimes as he already knows how controllers work and hez experienced in doing crimes. from his experience he can give a huge loss to society/law as he already know the high and low of his field...
another question here (what if ibless want to seek forgiveness) ? as much i think about that story more disturbing questions comes in my mind.. may God help us all..
In my journey I have found that trust in the creator must be adhered to and that
Allah will teach our hearts.He found you astray, and guided you.
peace
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if iblis makes tauba that means he would accept humans and he would support us and this means we as humanity would live immeditly like in paradise.
But thats not the case
Yeah, if the jinn folk acquiesce to the adamites it would indeed be a better world.
Question who is Al-Bashar
peace
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No human on earth can say anything for certain beyond that because even the jinn that talk about him during exorcisms or to satanists could be lying and there's no way for us to verify any other details since he's invisible to us. And I don't see why it would matter.
Here's what matter...
Based on facts, including historical facts, the labeling of "Satan" / "Devil" are being used by human to justify "Devilish" deed by human to another human.Some example
- Witchhunt (especially in Medieval era), resulting in 100,000 (labeled as) witches dead
- Holy War / Crusade / Jihad (Millions dead)
- Inquisition 10,000 (labeled as) devil worshiper dead
- Terrorism (including Islamic Terrorism)
- The recently infamous war against "Axis Of Evil" (200,000 Dead)
What are the characteristic of Satan / Devil / Iblis which you can't find among humans?
- Arrogance and Pride
- Ignorance and Stupidity
- Egocentricity
- Lies and Deceit
- Vengeance
- Hatred
- Torture and Brutality
Human doesn't need any help from a "ghostly" figure to become "Satan".
Infact human now has evolved to be better than Mr Satan on doing devilish deed thus it's a proper time for Mr Satan to retire (if he does exist).And usually the accusation / labeling of "Satan" are infact being used by Satanic Human to justify their satanic deed performed to another human.
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It appears that the difference between bashar and insaan is that
the bashar is the physical body and insaan is the nature.Wa-ith qala rabbuka lilmala-ikatiinnee khaliqun basharan min salsalin min hama-inmasnoonin
And , when your Lord said to the Mal?ikah/Angels,
?I will create a human being (Basharan) out of clay from an altered black mud.Inna al-insana khuliqa halooAAan
Indeed, mankind was created anxious.
Is this understanding consistent with Quran. hmm
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It appears that the difference between bashar and insaan is that
the bashar is the physical body and insaan is the nature.Wa-ith qala rabbuka lilmala-ikatiinnee khaliqun basharan min salsalin min hama-inmasnoonin
And , when your Lord said to the Mal?ikah/Angels,
?I will create a human being (Basharan) out of clay from an altered black mud.Inna al-insana khuliqa halooAAan
Indeed, mankind was created anxious.
Is this understanding consistent with Quran. hmm
Peace Hawk
Yes we all know it's a tricky subject... If you claim bashar and insan as of above... You have to explain 2312 in which insan created by clay.... As hard is of course we human and insan... But this Naas is so complicated... Read 224 ... How come only Naas and stones be fuel of Hell while Jinn also part of hell? Is naas include jinn here in this verse? Got to be... But if so chapter 114 need to be explained where Naas and Jinn mentioned.. Does naas can be used for Jinn and Men together and separate as well?
God guide us -
Please can anyone tell me who is Satan
There are two kinds
- Jin Shaytan
- Human Shaytan
Human Shaytan refers to bystander / peacemaker, and believers of Political Jurisprudence.
The definition of Shaytan
Human Shaytans and Jinn Shaytans, who inspire each other (ie. schism, religism) with delusions (ie. unnatural) by means of specious words (ie. fallacies) - if your LordLaw (of Nature/Sunnatullah) had willed, they would not have done it, so abandon them and all they fabricate (ie. Political Jurisprudence). (6112)
• Human Shaytan are sectarians
• Human Shaytan is the delusional; ie. unnatural and "an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder"
• Human Shaytan is fallacious, logic failed.
• Human Shaytan is a fabricator of forced justice or political jurisprudence
• Human Shaytan is a bystander or peacemaker, ie. the Hypocrites
They are not of you, nor are you of them. And they knowingly swear upon falsehood/fallacies. (5814) ... Such people are the army of Shaytan. (5819)
They are not of you, nor are you of them. (4143) ... The hypocrites are in the lowest level of the Fire. (4145)
They have made their syahadat into a cloak and barred (bystanding, peacemaking) the Way of Allah (Sunnatullah / Law of Nature / EcoLogic / Ecological Jurisprudence). What they have done is truly evil. (632) ... Allah fight them! (634)
• They would like you to be kafir as they are kafir (bystander, peacemaker) so that you will all be the same. Do not take any of them as friends until they have made hijra in the Way of Allah (Sunnatullah ALONE, Law of Nature, Ecological Jurisprudence). (489)
• If they had had iman in Allah and the Prophet and what has been sent down to him, they would not have taken them as friends. But most of them are deviators. (581)
• The pure natural believers should not take kafirun/polical jurisprudence/forced justice as friends rather than pure natural believers. Anyone who does that has nothing to do with Allah at all. (32
• There is no tawba for people who persist in doing evil ( = bystanding or on friendly terms with Human Shaytan / Forced Justice / Political Jurisprudence). (41
"You can't walk with Allah and hold on to the devil at the same time,you can't serve two Master's. So ask yourself, is what I am doing with my life worth going to hell for?"
https//scontent.fkul1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49187702_2258575051025740_2357633344071532544_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul1-1.fna&oh=91416d8037e260e5467c997d8fc0e1c7&oe=5CBB3830
On that Day, We shall ask Hell, Are you now full (with Jin/Human Shaytans)? Hell will answer, Are there any more? (5030)
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Peace Hawk
Yes we all know it's a tricky subject... If you claim bashar and insan as of above...Not a claim, translate the two ayats yourself
You have to explain 2312 in which insan created by clay....
If we lock the two ayats as true then we get Insaan made of mud, Insaan also made
of clay, Insaan = nature yesAs hard is of course we human and insan... But this Naas is so complicated... Read 224 ... How come only Naas and stones be fuel of Hell while Jinn also part of hell?
My understanding is that is an allegory.
I prefer to make the connection between the two ayats I mentioned if you have patience.Is naas include jinn here in this verse? Got to be... But if so chapter 114 need to be explained where Naas and Jinn mentioned.. Does naas can be used for Jinn and Men together and separate as well?
God guide usCan we get to naas and jinn later?
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It appears that the difference between bashar and insaan is that
the bashar is the physical body and insaan is the nature.Wa-ith qala rabbuka lilmala-ikatiinnee khaliqun basharan min salsalin min hama-inmasnoonin
And , when your Lord said to the Mal?ikah/Angels,
?I will create a human being (Basharan) out of clay from an altered black mud.Inna al-insana khuliqa halooAAan
Indeed, mankind was created anxious.
Is this understanding consistent with Quran. hmm
Let's stick to one thing.. Yes... I want only clarification to what is highlighted in blue IN your comment....is that possible... Taje the support of 5514 to it.... Let me put it in Mahdi style...
Bashar = physic
Insan = nature
No more comments.. Appreciate a good explanation in order to check the possibilities of your understanding .... -
Peace
Shiin-Tay-Nun = nature = can be human or jinn
become distant/far/remote, enter firmly / become firmly fixed therein / penetrate
and be concealed, turn away in opposition (from direction/aim), devil, one
excessively proud/corrupt, unbelieving/rebellious/insolent/audacious/obstinate/perverse,
rope, deep curved well, it burned, became burnt, serpent, any reprehensible faculty
or power of a man.bashar is the physical body of both men and jinn.
both Ins and Jinns are men.
If we lock the two ayats as true then we get Insaan made of mud, Insaan also made
of clay, Insaan = nature yesAl-Insn (pl. Al-Ins) and Al-Ns = nature
to be or become sociable, companionable, conversable, inclined to company or
conversation, friendly, amicable, or familiar. To be or become cheered, or gladdened
or cheerful, gay, or gladsome. To be or become at ease, or tranquil; without shrinking or aversion.peace
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Apologies for reviving this old thread, but I need a quick clarification. In the Quran, Iblees (named entity) is specifically mentioned in Chapter 15, up to verse 37. Considering that all beings must experience death, and since Iblees is one of the Jinns, has he died as well? What we refer to nowadays are the shayateen, which include both jinns and humans.
I'm not asking about the characteristics of what constitutes a devil/shaitan, but about the individual named Iblis who refused to bow to Adam, a story well-known from the Quran. Is this same named figure still alive since that time (as it appears so from the verse 1536-37), having never experienced death, or has he passed away, leaving behind other similar entities? If the answer is yes, then he probably must have been a singular case of living endlessly until resurrection day.
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Apologies for reviving this old thread, but I need a quick clarification. In the Quran, Iblees (named entity) is specifically mentioned in Chapter 15, up to verse 37. Considering that all beings must experience death, and since Iblees is one of the Jinns, has he died as well? What we refer to nowadays are the shayateen, which include both jinns and humans.
I'm not asking about the characteristics of what constitutes a devil/shaitan, but about the individual named Iblis who refused to bow to Adam, a story well-known from the Quran. Is this same named figure still alive since that time (as it appears so from the verse 1536-37), having never experienced death, or has he passed away, leaving behind other similar entities? If the answer is yes, then he probably must have been a singular case of living endlessly until resurrection day.
All beings created for our universe will taste death. But not all the creatures of other universes will taste death.
