Pork is HALAL
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Kaltun you dragged me with your long post.... Let me answer for a final time...
I appreciate your interest in this thread... But strongly advice you not to hurry to lean to Mahdi nor anyone... I am sure you are aware of it... He could be 3751 for you....
I was discussing with my cousin in Adelaide today about Pork out of curiosity and I asked him to read this thread.... He read told me... It is prohibited... Argument is much strong for prohibition... I asked why.... Coz it is natural instinct when I was reading.. I asked is it coz you are brought up against pork... He said no.... And further bla bla... But he said a very strong point... No one argued saying whatever is mentioned in entire quran is all about animals... Whatever prohibitions... God never took a single word of prohibitions of fruits or vegetables... All concerned with animals... I thought of it... Yes... And said Yes again.... It is Yes... Dead animal... Yes.. Animal.. Blood.. Yes.. From animal... Whatever sacrificed (uhilla) to other than God... Yes.. Animal... And the most talking point laham khinzeer (only this vegetable and fruits and meat decayed)... Cannot be.... That is far from truth as per QURAN...
Further other additional prohibitions... 53
and killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you slaughter , and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
Out of the basic four and in the above verse 53 can we see anything other than which is involved animals....
No way.... Dear brother Kaltun... I can understand the believers.. I undertood the first day I saw your messages... I still believe you are coz you are learning... But if you have decided that pork is halal... I can't help.. God help u with right choice..... That's my heartfelt wish..
If you felt the evidences I brought is weak and what Mahdi brought is strong... Then it is your option... No compulsion in Deen..... Take what you feel right....
All fellow believers... God has only touched the animals in the subject of prohibitions... Non other... Pls research using your wisdom.... Even in torah and Injeeel
Kaltun other topics.. Let's discuss in other threads..... Let's keep this topic for pork....
I don't have anything more to say.....
God guides whom He wills and God misguides whom He wills.... Who am I to intervene....
Will it be my my last post... -
I'm afraid that's not even close to counterargument.. it is fallacious argument (irrelevant) and dogmatic belief .. please improve...
Say, "This is my 'Islam'. 'Islam' is with proofs and evidences! I, as well as those who follow me, call you towards Allah / LordLaw of The Universe / LordLaw of Cause & Effect / LordLaw of Logic. He is the most High! I would never commit the sin of shirk ( = guesswork = dogmatic belief) . (1210
https//image.slidesharecdn.com/00bargumentationacademiclanguage6thgrade-140107232719-phpapp01/95/what-is-an-argument-a-foundation-for-ela-in-the-common-core-era-8-638.jpg?cb=1389137651
https//image.slidesharecdn.com/00bargumentationacademiclanguage6thgrade-140107232719-phpapp01/95/what-is-an-argument-a-foundation-for-ela-in-the-common-core-era-7-638.jpg?cb=1389137651
https//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg/2000px-Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg.png
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Slm jkhan ,
thx for the reply ....
do i beleave pork is haram ==> dont know anymore
am i gonna eat pork ==> no ..... i do still think its bad meat .....
I appreciate your interest in this thread.
everything about the Quran is interesting to me, so if someone tries to explain , ill be on the first row... especially when it contradicts what i knew
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Yes ...
Why not? the flesh the swine?
two distinct consecutive definite nouns?
what you wrote doesn't mean "swine flesh"e.g. below doesn't mean "human magic"
2102 the humankind the magicnow if i check the verses like MI does ....
===> and the meat / flesh
===> contaminated / magotty / rotten
===> seen / considerdid you bother to read/understand my prior post?
no "the" flesh in word broken language/gibberish
likewise, no such word non-existent/gibberish
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two distinct consecutive definite nouns?
what you wrote doesn't mean "swine flesh"e.g. below doesn't mean "human magic"
2102 الناس the humankind السحر the magicthat's my point...
and I don't make the argument it mean "swine flesh", that's your argument.
my argument it "doesn't mean" swine flesh
Quote from Noon waalqalami on Yesterday at 051921 PM
again, broken language which comes out weird
incorrect missing الYes ...
http//i63.tinypic.com/v6svhh.jpg
likewise, no such word يرِ non-existent/gibberish
https//dictionary.reverso.net/arabic-english/%D9%8A%D8%B1/forced
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that's my point...
and I don't make the argument it mean "swine flesh", that's your argument.
you have no point completely missed simple lesson keep suggesting broken language/gibberish.
nonexistent gibberish missing "the" -- "and flesh" (definite noun) the stinky (definite adjective)
again, post single example using any source ever written to support your gibberish argument?
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Does this make sense to you?
والخىل and the horses المسومه the branded
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and then...
ال + لحم the flesh الخنز the maggoty
http//i66.tinypic.com/j5b2v6.jpg
Lane Lexicon -
Does this make sense to you?
yes perfectly what part of "the" is not clear? and the horses
likewise, what part of no "the" is not clear? and flesh -
What about "the flesh" + "the maggoty"?
والخىل and the horses المسومه the branded
ال + لحم the flesh الخنز the maggoty
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What about "the flesh" + "the maggoty"?
yes that works (definite noun definite adjective)
no "the" flesh and therefore cannot be adjective!53 walahmu/and flesh (noun) l-khinziri/the swine (noun)
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therefore it is "broken language which comes out weird, incorrect missing ال "?
Quote from Noon waalqalami on Yesterday at 051921 PM
again, broken language which comes out weird
incorrect missing الYes ...
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PLUS after all that, and even you manage to argue on grammar alone...
you still have two or more areas to cover before you can call it the Quran (clear argument / clear proof / words of Allah NO NONSENSE, NO FALLACIES) ie.
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Sunnatullah (Law of Nature) <- still no argument on this
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Revelation (Natural Person) <- on grammar alone (disputed), no consistency on all verses and Books... where did Allah make haram maggoty and stinking foods etc? Is it HALAL?
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Tawba/align to Natural Values (is Natural Law, 7156-157, Hablun Minallah + Hablun Minannas / EARTH JURISPRUDENCE) <- still no argument on this
So how do you explain all these?
How can you prove consistency (Muhkamat)?
https//scontent.fkul1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51446552_2280568462159732_7714549042222465024_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul1-1.fna&oh=d3620462ec8546f06a48912fc9e71cf1&oe=5CB8C416
But those in whose hearts is a sickness (unnaturalist) — It (the revelation) will only add doubt to their doubt, and they will die in a state of unbelief. (9125)
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you keep mindlessly ranting posting dumb spam!
again this is basic stuff which you or anyone can look at every occurrence written in qur'an or any text ever written/spoken at anytime in history and there is no such broken language gibberish!
definite adjective is always/must be preceded by a definite noun!
showed numerous examples and asked you to provide only one?stupid thread/topic although the above maybe useful to others.
bye!
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Do you then believe in a part of the Book and disbelieve in the other? (285)
You reject verse 1117?
yes that works (definite noun definite adjective)
والخىل and the horses المسومه the branded
ال + لحم the flesh الخنز the maggoty
The #Strawman say, "We have iman." Say "You do not have iman." (4914)
On that Day, We shall ask Hell, Are you now full? Hell will answer, Are there any more? (5030)
#wishful_thinking_is_one_thing_reality_another
#The_Unlettered
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Deal believers peace...
This topic suddenly went silent without even echo...
I thought another proof to strengthen the claim that khinzeer laham. Is not flesh/meat of decayed meat/fruits...if that is the meaning of laham khinzeer then we cannot include URINE of animals to it.. Coz its not laham.
In India and un few other countries they consider the urine of vows etc is holi and also healthy for for body...
Does God restrict it? For example Does the urine or excretes look laham khinzeer or they are better than that so God didn't mention of it...
Does God need to say about cleanliness and purification in choice. Didn't God say that He loves those who keep clean? So don't we have common sense to know not to consume decayed fruits or meats or the urine or Shit of animals...731-32 ?O children of Adam! wear your beautiful apparel at every place of prayer eat and drink but waste not by excess for God loves not the wasters. Say Who has forbidden the beautiful (gifts) of God, which He hath produced for his servants, and the things clean and pure (which He has provided) for sustenance? Say They are in the life of this world, for those who believe, (and) purely for them on the Day of Judgment. Thus do We explain the signs in detail for those who understand.?
2222 ?......... ...Surely God loves those who are most repenting, and loves those who keep themselves pure and clean.? could be mind and body....
Also 56 and 443
Point to note is... Those who say that meat of swine is lawful... Please tell me whether the urine of pigs lawful since laham khinzeer doesn't at all match for LIQUID? If urine and shits allowed then no point of making decayed / rotten meat /flesh of animal or fruits Haram....
Now at least think what is laham khinzeer....
God guide us... -
if that is the meaning of laham khinzeer then we cannot include URINE of animals to it.. Coz its not laham.
In India and un few other countries they consider the urine of vows etc is holi and also healthy for for body...
Does God restrict it? For example Does the urine or excretes look laham khinzeer or they are better than that so God didn't mention of it...
Does God need to say about cleanliness and purification in choice. Didn't God say that He loves those who keep clean? So don't we have common sense to know not to consume decayed fruits or meats or the urine or Shit of animals......
Point to note is... Those who say that meat of swine is lawful... Please tell me whether the urine of pigs lawful since laham khinzeer doesn't at all match for LIQUID? If urine and shits allowed then no point of making decayed / rotten meat /flesh of animal or fruits Haram....
Now at least think what is laham khinzeer....
God guide us...It's your problem, not mine.. do you understand the issue!? brickwall
My interpretation is "maggoty" and "STINKING".. or even contaminated.
http//i66.tinypic.com/j5b2v6.jpg
So my Quran / interpretation covers that urine and shit are HARAM...
and flesh does not describe meat alone.. but the substance, and what is "considered/ seen/ given due consideration/ treated/ contemplated /aforethought/ thought-through/ examined/ advised etc"...
Those who say "pork only" can drink urine and eat shit .. there is nothing in your Quran that says it is HARAM.. therefore "Do not say about what your lying tongues describe This is halal and this is haram 16116"
https//www.dcclothesline.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/drinking-camel-urine-600x358.png
This is the i'tiqad for Quran Alone... and the hadith corroborates well with your interpretation... it is HALAL! rotfl
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprophagia#Humans
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It's your problem, not mine.. do you understand the issue!? brickwall
My interpretation is "maggoty" and "STINKING".. or even contaminated.
http//i66.tinypic.com/j5b2v6.jpg
So my Quran / interpretation covers that urine and shit are HARAM...
and flesh does not describe meat alone.. but the substance, and what is "considered/ seen/ given due consideration/ treated/ contemplated /aforethought/ thought-through/ examined/ advised etc"...
Those who say "pork only" can drink urine and eat shit .. there is nothing in your Quran that says it is HARAM.. therefore "Do not say about what your lying tongues describe This is halal and this is haram 16116"
https//www.dcclothesline.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/drinking-camel-urine-600x358.png
This is the i'tiqad for Quran Alone... and the hadith corroborates well with your interpretation... it is HALAL! rotfl
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprophagia#Humans
Peace all...
Hey strawman?.
First of all I didn?t address to you in my previous thread specifically to you to break your head on the wall and to say what you said ?It's your problem, not mine.. do you understand the issue!? I addressed to everyone who still believe that Pork is lawful? I wonder there is anyone who likes to eat pork and drink pig milk if he is a believer..?be exemplary to others..? or in addition to that urine
Okay .. let me turn to you this time exclusively to you with an answer?
YOUR INTERPRETATION WILL NOT INCLUDE URINE OR SHIT OF ANIMALS? Let me explain the URINE? Remember I explain this not to convince you but to expose you and your hypocrisy to those who have knowledge and those who are believers and still probably feel inclined and motivated to what you say without knowing to them? coz of your fancy spam posts?
Don?t change what you have already mentioned in your threads? Just go back and see what you have posted in your Very first thread? Unless you change that also? Screenshot will work?
Your First thread
You only came up with the meaning for
Laham = Meat.. meanwhile for Khinzeer = Maggoty / Stinking
Then later?
Laham (became)= Meat +Flesh(of plants)
Now (it turned to)
Laham = Meat + Flesh(plants) + Urine + etc..+ etc..+ etc.. + ++ and all covered.. lol
So initiated the meaning of Laham al Khinzeer = MAGGOTY / STINKING MEAT? that was your claim first..
Now Laham al Khinzeer = Maggoty / Stinking / contaminated Meat + (flesh of plants) + Urine + shits
Now as per your hypocrisy
So to make these things to be restricted by God, you say God used the wording of Laham al Khinzeer?.You think God doesn?t know how to explain a simple things? simply God would have said All decayed/rotten/ polluted foods/things (solid+liquid) haram or in much better way than anyone can even grasp?
since Laham is included in the verse to express the meaning which is a solid thing then it must include LIQUID as well? food is after all SOLID+LIQUID = FOOD
At least if your claim is Maggoty / stinking / contaminated foods (solid+liquid) THEN which can include (decayed meat, contaminated water, contaminated milk and juice + wastes of animals-urine +shits etc etc..) ?.then claim is meaningful.. But your claim is not that?your interpretation doesn?t include LIQUID? LIQUID is not a part of the phrase of God in which He prohibited by saying ??Laham al Khinzeer????
Since God only has mentioned Laham and the other word is only Khinzeer which doesn?t say liquid but only maggoty/stinking .. God didn?t use the Arabic word for LIQUID to explain this particular restriction? but only laham which is not liquid by any means? unacceptable..
So your claim cannot be included urine here..Fallacy exposed..
As per your all alterations from the beginning to now? it stands as under..
Laham al Khinzeer is Maggoty / Stinking / contaminated Meat + (flesh of plants) AND NOT LIQUIDS such as urine?.So as per your claim urine should be considered halal? Your interpretation cannot include urine which is liquid..
Btw that?s a very hilarious picture for those who are deep rooted with hadith? post it in any Hadith forums? that would help you? meantime your interpretation is also matching with the hadith which commands to drink camel urine?try it out?be the man of what he speaks.. without knowing to you, you have interpreted the Laham al Khinzeer as such?
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its simple case = ignorance of language/tonge as per rules of text.
1 if arabic is not his native language then we can solve it by saying a person is highly foolish/weakest minds in learning language.
2 if arabic is his native language then we can solve it by saying a person instead of having knowledge of language still not understand language becoz hez clearly insane/retard/weird/feakish = ( majnu) arabic word for that catagory.
hadith is gateway for lot of people where people can find whatever they wish.and if it was not in hadith anything (specific) they will make/create it.whatever was required for a political/religious group they already inserted it and thats what happened with every nation.
a set of 7 persian news after 200 years of muhamad death is not a law to be follwed. not even authorised. its enough to understand what was going on in between 200 years for publishing a biography of that main figure of islam.
logically bukahri and company are not even ?hadith?
as far i see a first hand report example by abu bakar about muhammad we can say its a report called ?hadith?/saying.and that report must have a stamp/sign/thumb of abubakar dated back to 630-635 ad.
with two witnesses from same era that abu baker write this report from his own hand.thats what we say authentic/geneuine/sahih ( authorised )
with bukhari & co thats not the case we should say it NEWS instead of hadith. they did not qualified as ?AUTHENTIC? sahih .
they are unathentic/fake/plagarised/flukes with touch of little common sense truth like sky is blue. its not even history even historical revords have a fix pattern.
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Peace all...
Hey strawman�.
First of all I didn�t address to you in my previous thread specifically to you to break your head on the wall and to say what you said �It's your problem, not mine.. do you understand the issue!? I addressed to everyone who still believe that Pork is lawful� I wonder there is anyone who likes to eat pork and drink pig milk if he is a believer..�be exemplary to others..� or in addition to that urine
Okay .. let me turn to you this time exclusively to you with an answer�
YOUR INTERPRETATION WILL NOT INCLUDE URINE OR SHIT OF ANIMALS� Let me explain the URINE� Remember I explain this not to convince you but to expose you and your hypocrisy to those who have knowledge and those who are believers and still probably feel inclined and motivated to what you say without knowing to them� coz of your fancy spam posts�
Don�t change what you have already mentioned in your threads� Just go back and see what you have posted in your Very first thread� Unless you change that also� Screenshot will work�
Your First thread
You only came up with the meaning for
Laham = Meat.. meanwhile for Khinzeer = Maggoty / Stinking
Then later�
Laham (became)= Meat +Flesh(of plants)
Now (it turned to)
Laham = Meat + Flesh(plants) + Urine + etc..+ etc..+ etc.. + ++ and all covered.. lol
So initiated the meaning of Laham al Khinzeer = MAGGOTY / STINKING MEAT� that was your claim first..
Now Laham al Khinzeer = Maggoty / Stinking / contaminated Meat + (flesh of plants) + Urine + shits
Now as per your hypocrisy
So to make these things to be restricted by God, you say God used the wording of Laham al Khinzeer�.You think God doesn�t know how to explain a simple things� simply God would have said All decayed/rotten/ polluted foods/things (solid+liquid) haram or in much better way than anyone can even grasp�
since Laham is included in the verse to express the meaning which is a solid thing then it must include LIQUID as well� food is after all SOLID+LIQUID = FOOD
At least if your claim is Maggoty / stinking / contaminated foods (solid+liquid) THEN which can include (decayed meat, contaminated water, contaminated milk and juice + wastes of animals-urine +shits etc etc..) �.then claim is meaningful.. But your claim is not that�your interpretation doesn�t include LIQUID� LIQUID is not a part of the phrase of God in which He prohibited by saying ��Laham al Khinzeer����
Since God only has mentioned Laham and the other word is only Khinzeer which doesn�t say liquid but only maggoty/stinking .. God didn�t use the Arabic word for LIQUID to explain this particular restriction� but only laham which is not liquid by any means� unacceptable..
So your claim cannot be included urine here..Fallacy exposed..
As per your all alterations from the beginning to now� it stands as under..
Laham al Khinzeer is Maggoty / Stinking / contaminated Meat + (flesh of plants) AND NOT LIQUIDS such as urine�.So as per your claim urine should be considered halal� Your interpretation cannot include urine which is liquid..
Btw that�s a very hilarious picture for those who are deep rooted with hadith� post it in any Hadith forums� that would help you� meantime your interpretation is also matching with the hadith which commands to drink camel urine�try it out�be the man of what he speaks.. without knowing to you, you have interpreted the Laham al Khinzeer as such�
You're so DESPERATE, and/or too stupid! rotfl
https//thelogicofscience.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/strawman.png
and....
ير
https//dictionary.reverso.net/arabic-english/%D9%8A%D8%B1/forced
and what is "considered/ seen/ given due consideration/ treated/ contemplated /aforethought/ thought-through/ examined/ advised etc"...
- flesh (substance)
- maggoty and stinking