If you agree Hell is not necessarily 'forever', do you think...
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that everyone in Hell MAY one day come out and maybe even be allowed to live in heaven after all the punishment?
On a side note- God says He will not wrong anyone, not even by an atom's weight...so how can He punish forever if humans only had on average about 80-100 years (and a lot of people die earlier than that)...
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Nothing is eternal but God. Neither janna nor the fire, nothing else but God is forever.
The Qur'an says time and again that destiny is God, the end of the journey is God. We come from Him, from His Mercy, and we will return to Him, no matter for how long we may be in the way.Why does the faatiha say Guide us to the siraat al mustaqim, the ascending path, the path of those you graced, not of those you you were angry with, or the strayed.
It is obvious that the difference is the way we go back to him, painful or graceful. The painful one is nothing to look forward to. It is the paeither of love or the path of denial.Nowhere int he Qur'an it is said that janna or hell will last as much as God, so how will the fire end for each one of them who suffers it, as you say, Sarah, if justice is to prevail, and it will, because God is Justice, that is His name, then for each it will last what is just, and it will be as hard as it is just, not more. Those who end up in it, come with a burden of disgraceful deeds, that is their fire, they themselves, with their burden of wronging themselves, and that also the Qur'an makes it clear. When we behave evil, we wrong not God, but ourselves. When the fire clears those burdens, then it will end, if the sufferer has been cleansed. God does not say much, or anything about that, but it stands in agreement with His message. May be He does not want us to entertain thoughts like those of those who used to say, "0h, we will stay in the fire only for two or three days"...
Let us pray that we are forgiven our wrong deeds and reform so that we do not have to be in the fire even a minute, because however long it may be, it will feel eternal.
Salaam
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that everyone in Hell MAY one day come out and maybe even be allowed to live in heaven after all the punishment?
I don't think so dear... no evidence from quran for that....
On a side note- God says He will not wrong anyone, not even by an atom's weight...so how can He punish forever if humans only had on average about 80-100 years (and a lot of people die earlier than that)...
Remember they were given a chance in this world to reform, but they failed... God knew their soul...
JAHANNA
2074 ? Indeed, whoever comes to his Lord as a criminal(mujrim) - indeed, for him is Hell; he will neither die therein nor live.?
JANNAH15 48 ?Toil shall not afflict them in it, nor shall they be ever ejected from it?
4456 ?They shall not taste therein of death, save the first death, And He shall guard them against the chastisement of Hell ?Is the promise of God True? Needless to say that if you are a believer....
God promise to destroy the entire Heavens and Earth, but no promise of destroying what He is gonna create replacing the current one?.I don?t see any other meaning other than eternal/immortal for these three letters..
JANNAH
5034 ?Enter it in peace. This is the Day of Eternity (Yaum Al Khuludi)."
2515 Say, "Is that better or the Garden of Eternity(Janna al Khuldi) which is promised to the righteous? It will be for them a reward and destination.JAHANNA
4128 ?That is the recompense of the enemies of Allah - the Fire. For them therein is the home of eternity (Daarul Khuldi) as recompense for what they, of Our verses, were rejecting.?
??.
2134 ?And We did not grant to any man before you eternity ; so if you die - would they be eternal??(Khuld) ?.. see the comparison .. death with eternity?
720 ?But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal." ?
I think I discussed this verse in one of the other topic.. Malaika also will die on when the trumpet is blown except those God will and they are Malaika but of the IMMORTALS(Khalidun)?.
After all these glaring proofs, if one says that it is not eternal then He needs to explain with supporting verses?.Peace..
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The disbelievers used to say hell isn't forever, but the Quran is clear that it is.
280 And they say, "Never will the Fire touch us, except for a few days." Say, "Have you taken a covenant with God? For God will never break His covenant. Or do you say about God that which you do not know?"
281 Yes, whoever earns evil and his sin has encompassed him - those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally. -
that everyone in Hell MAY one day come out and maybe even be allowed to live in heaven after all the punishment?
On a side note- God says He will not wrong anyone, not even by an atom's weight...so how can He punish forever if humans only had on average about 80-100 years (and a lot of people die earlier than that)...
Salaam Sarah
11106-107
( (Those who are wretched shall be in the Fire there will be for them therein (nothing but) the heaving of sighs and sobs (106) They will dwell therein for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord willeth for thy Lord is the (sure) Accomplisher of what He planneth. (107) And those who are blessed shall be in the Garden they will dwell therein for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord willeth a gift without break. (10
1448
On the day when the earth will be changed to other than the earth, and the heavens (also will be changed) and they will come forth unto Allah, the One, the Almighty, (4
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Of course, all the trouble with something that is plain and in agreement with the sense of justice and equity which the Qur'an imposes on all of us, and which also in our fitra is the insistence on something that obviously cannot be and it is to give to khalada and derivatives the meaning of eternity. And that is the source of the questions which is very understandable that should come to sister Sarah's mind.
It is alarming, though that those same questions do not crop up in some other minds. Hopefully those who bilieve that hell is eternal are absolutely sure that God will not find that they deserve it, because living with that doubt may be very hard.
These ayas quoted by Novice, if nothing else, should teach us that khalada means to abide for however long. For those in hell undeoubtedly it will be long enough whatever the time may be.
Salaam
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that everyone in Hell MAY one day come out and maybe even be allowed to live in heaven after all the punishment?
You have nailed the point of hell good sister, the time in hell is to
get people to heaven.So today ransom shall not be accepted from you nor from
those who disbelieved; your abode is the fire; it is your friend and
evil is the resort.Fire is a metaphorical purifier. Hell is to help people change.
So is the distress and affliction in this life meant to make us better.And indeed We sent messengers to nations before thee, then
We seized them with distress and afiction that they might humble
themselves. (a slice of humble pie anyone). eatNothing is eternal but God. Neither janna nor the fire, nothing else but God is forever.
The Qur'an says time and again that destiny is God, the end of the journey is God. We come from Him, from His Mercy, and we will return to Him, no matter for how long we may be in the way.Salaam
we agree
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You have nailed the point of hell good sister, the time in hell is to
get people to heaven.So today ransom shall not be accepted from you nor from
those who disbelieved; your abode is the fire; it is your friend and
evil is the resort.Fire is a metaphorical purifier. Hell is to help people change.
So is the distress and affliction in this life meant to make us better.And indeed We sent messengers to nations before thee, then
We seized them with distress and afiction that they might humble
themselves. (a slice of humble pie anyone). eatwe agree
1421 "And they will come out before Allah all together, and the weak will say to those who were arrogant, "Indeed, we were your followers, so can you avail us anything against the punishment of Allah ?" They will say, "If Allah had guided us, we would have guided you. It is all the same for us whether we show intolerance or are patient there is for us no place of escape."
That would help... Lol....
By the way for globe heads the universe is 13.8 billion years old... And more to last... So that's more than eternal in our simple language.... Lol.... God's will is not known.... Hid promise is true but what He will do is His business.... -
3536 "But those who reject (Allah) - for them will be the Fire of Hell No term shall be determined for them, so they should die, nor shall its Penalty be lightened for them. Thus do We reward every ungrateful one"
2514 "Exclaim not today for one destruction, but exclaim for many destructions."
23107 -108 "Lord, take us out of this and if we sin again, we shall certainly be unjust, He (Allah) will say "Remain you in it with ignominy! And speak you not to Me!"
If God says not to speak to Him... Then chapter close... As per Quran it is eternal and no no other clue... God will He may do what He wills.... It is common in anything not only in hell and paradise... God will we may not see any ressurection.... We don't know His will.... That's only within Him.. But He is not unfair... And He won't break His promise...
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peace all,
Heaven and Hell will be eternal /forever
They do not taste/experience in it the death/lifelessness except the first death, and He protected them (from) the Hell's torture.
Grace/favour from your Lord, Such is the great triumph/supreme success.Here the ‘first death' may denote the death in this world because the verse 35 of this surah mentions it. And in my understanding from the various verses like (2310; 1448etc.) the earth itself will be changed into the Heaven (that's why 4456 says ‘the first death in it')
?Those, they are the inheritors?.
?The Day the earth be replaced (with) another earth and the skies/space...?Earth is the best place to inhabit for humans. In the second birth, believers will be in the best version of human being and so is the earth in its best version i.e. Heaven.
Eternally in fire/no escape from the fire can mean getting dissolved in/ becoming the fire (hell).
So ‘eternally' may be in the sense that the companions of the Fire will be justly punished for their evil deeds and after complete punishment they may let to dissolve in the hellfire and may remain in the hell forever as heat energy - for the purpose of fuelling the fire, i.e. no more existence as living beings.
...then beware the Fire whose/its fuel is people and rocks...
just shared my thoughts, and I'm aware that God's system can be beyond my logic and imagination.
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Nothing is eternal but God. Neither janna nor the fire, nothing else but God is forever.
The Qur'an says time and again that destiny is God, the end of the journey is God. We come from Him, from His Mercy, and we will return to Him, no matter for how long we may be in the way.Why does the faatiha say Guide us to the siraat al mustaqim, the ascending path, the path of those you graced, not of those you you were angry with, or the strayed.
It is obvious that the difference is the way we go back to him, painful or graceful. The painful one is nothing to look forward to. It is the paeither of love or the path of denial.Nowhere int he Qur'an it is said that janna or hell will last as much as God, so how will the fire end for each one of them who suffers it, as you say, Sarah, if justice is to prevail, and it will, because God is Justice, that is His name, then for each it will last what is just, and it will be as hard as it is just, not more. Those who end up in it, come with a burden of disgraceful deeds, that is their fire, they themselves, with their burden of wronging themselves, and that also the Qur'an makes it clear. When we behave evil, we wrong not God, but ourselves. When the fire clears those burdens, then it will end, if the sufferer has been cleansed. God does not say much, or anything about that, but it stands in agreement with His message. May be He does not want us to entertain thoughts like those of those who used to say, "0h, we will stay in the fire only for two or three days"...
Let us pray that we are forgiven our wrong deeds and reform so that we do not have to be in the fire even a minute, because however long it may be, it will feel eternal.
Salaam
Wassalam,
nice answer and interesting perspective Huruf...
But is there proof from the Qur'an that only God is eternal? How did you reach this conclusion? -
Of course, all the trouble with something that is plain and in agreement with the sense of justice and equity which the Qur'an imposes on all of us, and which also in our fitra is the insistence on something that obviously cannot be and it is to give to khalada and derivatives the meaning of eternity. And that is the source of the questions which is very understandable that should come to sister Sarah's mind.
It is alarming, though that those same questions do not crop up in some other minds. Hopefully those who bilieve that hell is eternal are absolutely sure that God will not find that they deserve it, because living with that doubt may be very hard.
These ayas quoted by Novice, if nothing else, should teach us that khalada means to abide for however long. For those in hell undeoubtedly it will be long enough whatever the time may be.
True,
khalada doesn't necessarily mean eternal or forever...even some Sunnis do not consider Hell to be forever...
Salaam -
The only way that we may become eternal is returning to God. To think that in our being there is eternity is making oursleves equal to God. Nothing exists by itself but cause God makes us exist. If God stops un second making us exist that would be it for us. Who is going to make us eternal? ourselves? God? God can let us be for however long He pleases, but only He can be eternal.
Read the Qur'an carefully our destiny is God, ilaihi al maSir, not to eternity but to Him. We had a beginning, wherefrom do we get to not having an end?
Salaam
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Wassalam,
nice answer and interesting perspective Huruf...
But is there proof from the Qur'an that only God is eternal? How did you reach this conclusion?Salaam Sarah
573
He has no beginning and He has no ending. He is the Evident and the Hidden. And He is the Knower of all things.
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Salaam Sarah
573
He has no beginning and He has no ending. He is the Evident and the Hidden. And He is the Knower of all things.
Peace everyone....
I wonder this Awwal and Aakhir is giving the meaning of no beginning and no Ending.... But God has definitely no beginning and Ending....
Some seriously think that when we live eternally in Janna thrn it is equal to God.... No way.... We have beginning and we ended and we start again... Is that equal to God... Not at all.... If God will that we should live in His Kingdom forever then we are controlled ... When we are controlled by God, is it equal to God?.... Just being given a life which is eternal doesn't mean we have the feature of God... Coz we are not Awwal and we are not Aakhir.... -
Peace every believer,,,
JAHANNA ? HELL FIRE
4169 ?Except the path of Hell; they will abide therein (Khaalideena) forever(ABADA). And that, for Allah , is easy.?
JANNA ? DELIGHT KINGDOM
457 But those who believe and do righteous deeds - We will admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they abide (Khaalideena) forever(ABADA).. For them therein are purified spouses, and We will admit them to deepening shade.
As you are aware this Khalideena itself abiding/living ETERNALLY as per the comparable words used in entire quran?.
Note the extra word used as ABADA = FOREVER / Ever ?
Without differentiating anything GOD has used in the above verses for JANANA and JAHANNA the identical words KHALIDEENA and ABADA?
So we can deduce that life in JAHANNA (HELL) is as long as the life of JANNA?. Simply according to verses ETERNALLY and FOREVER?.rest we will see after resurrection?.We should take into consideration the manifest way of explanation in quran that God says he placed us as Khalifa and will be given on earth a TERM and when the term is over will be returned to GOD again and then there is no term again and it will be only a life never ending be it in Hell or Janna?That?s a promise of God?He never breaks his promise...
4122 " ... We will admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever. the promise of Allah , truth, and who is more truthful than Allah in statement."