Semitic Rhetoric and ayat 37:103 ("sacrifice" of Ismael)
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Peace Iyyaka.
I have noticed the French connection, Do you know of cheikh doukhani?
It just seems some of your ideas agree with his? Or may be I am wrong.Anyway I find his sarcasm and ideas good as well as far fetched sometimes, quote
M?me si le titre peut ?tonner, il faut admettre qu?Allah est un grand r?volutionnaire et qu?? chaque fois qu?il envoie un messager, c?est pour taper un grand coup de pied dans la mentalit? ?tablie. Rien de plus normal donc que le sujet en question soit abord? par Allah.
18-54
Et assur?ment, Nous avons d?ploy? pour les gens, dans ce Coran, toutes sortes d?exemples. L?homme cependant, est de tous les ?tres le plus grand disputeur..
So in reality ,there was no sacrifice at all!!!
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Why are you forgetting very elementary rules of reading a text? A subordinate clause links backwards to preceding main clause. Its pronouns are referent for antecedents in the previous clause. Such violations of fundamental rules lead not to meditation but to hallucination.
Salam Brother,
Lol ) you made me laugh with the word "hallucination" even ifi think your remark was serious and sincere.
I don't know you, but I swear by God that I didn't do this analysis under the influence of narcotics or other illicit substances! ;DIn your criticism you forget that the Koran is not a text structured in a linear way, as we are used to approach others texts, but according to a principle that invites to meditation Symmetry.
The examples that I proposed in this forum are illustrative and ALL the Quran is traversed by this way of organizing the speech.
To ignore the way the author wants you to read his text is to take the risk of misunderstanding his words ...Then the second principle is harder to describe with one word.
Let's say that, to give you an image, it's like a scene ,that you did not attend personally, that it is describ to you by different angles, by retransmitting some dialogues of the scene or by obscuring others that will be addressed in other passages , because it is appropriate to the literary context in which they are inscribed (in this case the Surah). The pronoun "it" in ayat 37103 is implicit and not explicit in the texte. The actors of the scene know what it refers to but for us we need more clarification elsewhere in the Quran.An example that can help us agree is the scene between Adam and Iblis. This scene is describ by different angles in different parts of the Qur'an. It is not a will of God to mislead us but to tell a useful and precise speech which fits perfectly with the literary context. If you want to understand the whole scene between Adam and iblis you have to gather all the pieces and make them work together otherwise you risk to bring your own interpretation to the text!
This risk is addressed by the Qur'an here
1590 As for the dividers in what we feel down.
1591 Theones who have made the Qur'an split.
or by the prophet himself
20 114 Then High above all is God, the King, the True. And do not be hasty with the Qur'an before being inspired, and say "My Lord, increase my knowledge."Thus, once again, we must link this passage in Surah 37 with the passage in Surah Baqarah to have an overview of the scene and remove the shadows. In the preamble we must have understood the Fatiha and above all the first quality of God Al-Rahman Al-Rahim.
This passage is from the ayat to ayat .
You have 3 strong markers to link these 2 passages- This is the only passage where is mentioned an action (good deed) made by Abraham and Ismael
- The beginning of the verse which says "And Abraham was tested by words from His Lord, which he fulfilled"
- You have the explanation of what was done in using a synonym for the word "Talla" which is "Yarfa'u" = "Raised" which comes to clarify and settle in the meaning to give to the Hapax "Talla".
Peace
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Salam Brother,
Lol ) you made me laugh with the word "hallucination" even ifi think your remark was serious and sincere.
I don't know you, but I swear by God that I didn't do this analysis under the influence of narcotics or other illicit substances! ;DIn your criticism you forget that the Koran is not a text structured in a linear way, as we are used to approach others texts, but according to a principle that invites to meditation Symmetry.
The examples that I proposed in this forum are illustrative and ALL the Quran is traversed by this way of organizing the speech.
To ignore the way the author wants you to read his text is to take the risk of misunderstanding his words ...Then the second principle is harder to describe with one word.
Let's say that, to give you an image, it's like a scene ,that you did not attend personally, that it is describ to you by different angles, by retransmitting some dialogues of the scene or by obscuring others that will be addressed in other passages , because it is appropriate to the literary context in which they are inscribed (in this case the Surah). The pronoun "it" in ayat 37103 is implicit and not explicit in the texte. The actors of the scene know what it refers to but for us we need more clarification elsewhere in the Quran.An example that can help us agree is the scene between Adam and Iblis. This scene is describ by different angles in different parts of the Qur'an. It is not a will of God to mislead us but to tell a useful and precise speech which fits perfectly with the literary context. If you want to understand the whole scene between Adam and iblis you have to gather all the pieces and make them work together otherwise you risk to bring your own interpretation to the text!
This risk is addressed by the Qur'an here
1590 As for the dividers in what we feel down.
1591 Theones who have made the Qur'an split.
or by the prophet himself
20 114 Then High above all is God, the King, the True. And do not be hasty with the Qur'an before being inspired, and say "My Lord, increase my knowledge."Thus, once again, we must link this passage in Surah 37 with the passage in Surah Baqarah to have an overview of the scene and remove the shadows. In the preamble we must have understood the Fatiha and above all the first quality of God Al-Rahman Al-Rahim.
This passage is from the ayat to ayat .
You have 3 strong markers to link these 2 passages- This is the only passage where is mentioned an action (good deed) made by Abraham and Ismael
- The beginning of the verse which says "And Abraham was tested by words from His Lord, which he fulfilled"
- You have the explanation of what was done in using a synonym for the word "Talla" which is "Yarfa'u" = "Raised" which comes to clarify and settle in the meaning to give to the Hapax "Talla".
Peace
Salam dear.
You have not said anything about the point I raised.
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Salam, ayaka
Then the second principle is harder to describe with one word.
Let's say that, to give you an image, it's like a scene ,that you did not attend personally, that it is describ to you by different angles,Qur?n is rendered facilitative for comprehension by use of figures of speech
By unique device like coverage of an event by multiple cameras
Allah the Exalted has used a unique device to render Qur?n facilitative for complete understanding which no other author can employ because they suffer limitation of observation.
Our vision becomes dynamic when we are able to recognize objects and concepts from multiple perspectives and from different viewing angles. It then assists explicit cognition. Visual perception faces difficulties with varying lighting conditions illuminating the environment and our inability to absorb/digest visual scene in a single glimpse.
Real life experience will make the point lucid. A person watching a cricket or football match in the stadium and the Umpire/Referee cannot observe what a person can observe in the live telecast flashing each image of movements of the player and the ball from various angles seen by various cameras fixed all around the ground.
One writing device for facilitating the reader to conclusively comprehend an object, topic and concept is to describe it with the help of dichotomous relations; and by showing it from different angles, dimensions, and aspects. Dichotomous relations and terms incorporate both closeness and distance and help human cognitive tendency in categorizing experiences with their help. This device portrays the varieties, or vicissitudes of affairs or events; scope, diametric properties; and possibilities the reader might not have given a thought. It illustrates how and why is it important to observe the other side of same or similar subject or concept and be mindful of possibilities that have not occurred but are probable.
You may find it interesting
http//haqeeqat.pk/FacilitatibeByTasreef.htm
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Peace Iyyaka.
I have noticed the French connection, Do you know of cheikh doukhani?
It just seems some of your ideas agree with his? Or may be I am wrong.Anyway I find his sarcasm and ideas good as well as far fetched sometimes, quote
M?me si le titre peut ?tonner, il faut admettre qu?Allah est un grand r?volutionnaire et qu?? chaque fois qu?il envoie un messager, c?est pour taper un grand coup de pied dans la mentalit? ?tablie. Rien de plus normal donc que le sujet en question soit abord? par Allah.
18-54
Et assur?ment, Nous avons d?ploy? pour les gens, dans ce Coran, toutes sortes d?exemples. L?homme cependant, est de tous les ?tres le plus grand disputeur..
So in reality ,there was no sacrifice at all!!!
GOD bless you.
Peace.Salam Brother,
Yes i know the articles of cheick dukhani. I recommend his analysis about the cut of the thieves hands.
But i am not agree with him in many things.
Like Aidid Safar "Mental Bondage in the Name of God" they are too radical.
Other interesting french author alajami.fr (his analysis of riba is a so well analysis https//www.alajami.fr/index.php/2018/01/22/la-riba-le-pret-a-interet-et-lusure-sont-ils-haram-selon-le-coran-et-en-islam/)I don't know too much in others country but In France, since 10-15 years, a new generation of scholars look at the quran with a new eye Let the text speak !
This is the common point of these differents approach.
Even in Egypt many debates appear about the function and role of Hadiths...Now, once the situation has been identified, we need a methodology to appreciate "The Qur'an according to Itself" and Quran talks about that !
if you want to make a convincing speech you need the help of 3 elements (WHW)
- What ?Text content => Meaning of each letter, dictionnary, linguistics, grammar...
- How ? The style/organization of the text => Figures of speech as Rhetoric semitic, Metonymy, allegory etc..
- Who ? The recipients of the text => Cultural, social, historic and geographic anthropology
And of course, from the point of view of the quran, having human qualities like to listen carefully in silence,be humble, sharing with others and patient..
I try to contribute at this effort with my modest capacity, like you or others in this forum and all around the world.
Only God as master and al-quran as the light who enligth the rest without earse them.
Peace
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I appreciate your efforts (i will read your work) but sorry yout don't look deeply quranic proofs (for the comprehension of this passage - i Don't say for all)
You have already your vision of this passage and you look through this curtain.What proof is needed. You said something mentioned earlier relate to a part coming later. I just pointed out that a dependent sentence ALWAYS relates and links to the previous clause. Always keep this tip in mind that conjunction FA is a cohesive tie for linear coherence and it is starts a dependent clause which is the cause and effect and sequence of the previous clause.
Many fond of finding coherence and Semitic coherence are not even aware as to what are the cohesive ties used in Qur'an.
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I just pointed out that a dependent sentence ALWAYS relates and links to the previous clause.
=> Yes again but not the manner you think ! There is a logic and i give u again
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Thus, the first part can be divided into 2 events
(1) B - Discussion between Abraham and Ismael about this vision
(2) X - Acceptance of this vision
Similarly, the second part can be divided into 2 events
(1) X- Realization of this vision (action)
(2) B' - Discussion of God towards Abraham
"
Have a look at the part B' wich is connected with the second sentence of the Center (X) by making reference to ONLY ABRAHAM and introduction to the second part B'. Ismael disappear in part B. -
=> Yes again but not the manner you think ! There is a logic and i give u again
"
Thus, the first part can be divided into 2 events
(1) B - Discussion between Abraham and Ismael about this vision
(2) X - Acceptance of this vision
Similarly, the second part can be divided into 2 events
(1) X- Realization of this vision (action)
(2) B' - Discussion of God towards Abraham
"
Have a look at the part B' wich is connected with the second sentence of the Center (X) by making reference to ONLY ABRAHAM and introduction to the second part B'. Ismael disappear in part B.What you get out of it?
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What you get out of it?
Look at my first post but when you read the Quran a sentence is above the rest (repeat so many times)
225 And give good news to those who have faith and do good works that they will have estates with rivers flowing beneath them.
There is 2 parts in 225 wich is symmetrical with what you can find in this passage of surah 37
- "Have faith" = in the heart (Static - invisible)
- First, some words come from God = Part B
- Second, You consent = First Part of X
- "So you"...do "Good deeds" = visible - dynamic
- First, you do good doers = Second part of X
- Second, you receive good new from god ("reward"= Part B'
=> All the subject and the story is deal with the "golden sentence of the quran" , in perfect symmetry.
=> For more details about the good doers go to the surah 2.
If your question is about the close relationship between X and B'
and B and X, look at the text colored (begin and end of the text)A -
"My Master, grant me from among the upright."
We gave him the glad tidings of a shrewd boy.B -
When (Arabic falamma) he was old enough to actively help his father,
He said "O my son, I am seeing in a dream that I am sacrificing you.
Take the time to think and tell me how you see this vision.
He said, "O my father, do what is ordained to you.
You will find me, God willing, one of the steadfast.X -
when (Arabic falamma) both of them had abandonned,and HE (Arabic Tallahu) heaped it to the forehead,
B -
We called him, "O Abraham!
You have realized the vision well.
This is how We reward the beneficent.
This was an explicit test.
We rewarded him with a sacrifice beyond measure
By perpetuated it to the after.
Peace over Abraham.
Thus We reward the beneficent.
HE (Arabic Innahu) was of Our believing servants.A-
We gave him the glad tidings of Isaac,
a prophet among the upright.=> And this group (B - X - B' begins with the condition in phycial/psychological maturity (Arabic sa'ya) to be a potential "believing (part 1) servant (part 2)"
and this group (B - X - B' ends with the diploma of being a "believing (part 1) servant (part 2)"
and inside the begin and the end of this group God explains you How to become a "believing (part 1) servant (part 2)"Hope Brother you can appreciate the logic of God and how the beauty of such a passage can only be provided by God
"God has sent down the best narrative, a Book involving analogy and repetition.. The skins of those who are concerned towards their Lord shiver from it, then their skins and their hearts soften up to the remembrance of God. Such is the guidance of God; He guides with it whoever He wills. And for whoever God misguides, then none can guide him."
=> I really (physical) understand this sentence.Peace
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Sorry not Farrin work ! Farrin doesn't use Semitic rhetoric. I gave u all ?vidences. I can't do more...
Can you write a small paragraph as to what exactly you perceive as to what is Semitic rhetoric, what is its function, how it simplifies things for human cognitive ability, what is its benefit etc? It will help many of us to understand you.
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Can you write a small paragraph as to what exactly you perceive as to what is Semitic rhetoric, what is its function, how it simplifies things for human cognitive ability, what is its benefit etc? It will help many of us to understand you.
It seems that few works exists in English. I tried to find English documents for you in an another topic. https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610589.0 You will find a document in English which answer your question (first link of this topic)
Raymond Farrin, as Michel Cuypers said, has made "a step" and it is a good effort and i bought his book. But too general...and i need more details about his methodology to know how he extracted parts from surah (That's why i said i think he didn't use principles of Semitic Rhetoric) .
For example, M. Cuypers produced 1 big book for just 1 surah. Therefore this must be continued..I have tried here by SMALL exemples and using colours (surah Baqarah is so big for just one topic!) to show its utility to have a better comprehension of the Quran and avoided "own interpretation".
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It seems that few works exists in English. I tried to find English documents for you in an another topic. https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610589.0 You will find a document in English which answer your question (first link of this topic)
Raymond Farrin, as Michel Cuypers said, has made "a step" and it is a good effort and i bought his book. But too general...and i need more details about his methodology to know how he extracted parts from surah (That's why i said i think he didn't use principles of Semitic Rhetoric) .
For example, M. Cuypers produced 1 big book for just 1 surah. Therefore this must be continued..I have tried here by SMALL exemples and using colours (surah Baqarah is so big for just one topic!) to show its utility to have a better comprehension of the Quran and avoided "own interpretation".
Had Cuypers applied little mind on the point of long held literary tradition of linear coherence in non-fiction discourses, instead of rejecting it straightaway and studied the inbuilt information as to how the text of Qur'an is composed, he may have seen par excellence coherence therein.
Those who tried earlier also did not see the inbuilt keys provided in Qur'an about its structuring and composition. Regarding interpretation, information is built in as to how it is interpreted. Little careful and critical reading is needed.