Yield or prostrate to Adam?

rahi

Salaam everyone,

I'm having trouble understanding the ayat relating to, well, the creation of Adam and the subsequent Iblis situation. I unfortunately don't know Arabic and I rely on translations of the Qur'an.

In several of the English translations I've come across, God apparently told the heavenly assembly of his intention to create Adam, and perhaps humans. The story then goes that after Adam was created, God asked the heavenly assembly (angels? jinn?) to prostrate to Adam.

Iblis did not. And then Iblis goes on to some odd kind of claim, wherein Iblis says that he/she/it will try and mislead us to the best of his/her/its ability, almost to prove to God that this Adam type creation isn't worth prostrating to.

Indeed, God says in many parts of the Qur'an that most of us will not believe.

So that's the context I'm trying to learn a bit more about.

My question Some translations say "prostrate", and others say "yield".

To me, those words mean pretty much completely different things. Would anyone here be able to shed more light on the "yield" translation?

Prostrating is relatively visual. It's like bowing down physically, perhaps all the way to where our feet normally are. Yielding on the other hand is more abstract. One meaning of "to yield" is to make room for, among so many other meanings of the word.

Thank you in advance.

Abaddon

Peace!

I think its a mixture of both like showing respect to the appointed proconsul of the earth directly by the almighty God. You also forgot to mention that he gave Adam of His ruh - so technically speaking he is/was a part of Him. This is the greater reason for that commandment. Iblis couldn't deal with it mainly because it was very paradox. Logic cant handle paradoxes. The other reason was arrogancy. Thats why Iblis complains that God had tricked him. The almighty God himself is above rationality/irrationality/intellect/intuition. All that we know since the Fall... after THE MOST HIGH we were greater then Angels in Intelligence - pure and above Good and Evil.

1539 He (Iblis) said "My Lord, for that by which You have caused me to be misled, I will beautify for them what is on the earth, and I will mislead them all."
1540 "Except Your servants from among them, the loyal ones."

huruf

Postrating is a physical act that represents a mental or will act. It may be figurative language.
Like when God says that he elvates a prophet, it does not mean that he puts him in an elevator but that he gives him more spiritual level.

So postrating means acknowledging your subservience to whoever you postrate to.

Salaam

imrankhawaja

Iblis did not. And then Iblis goes on to some odd kind of claim, wherein Iblis says that he/she/it will try and mislead us to the best of his/her/its ability, almost to prove to God that this Adam type creation isn't worth prostrating to.

This story seek multiple questions but very few satisfactory answers given by the experts so far.

Every book have their own merits of checking story. Its a good start to ponder over these things before we come to the stage of believing or disbelieving in something.

HISTORY

We offered our trust to multiple creation out of which humanbeing selected it becoz human being is ignorant and stupid.

EVENT of dispute

I(ibless) m not prostrating human becoz hes is ignorant and stupid and i better than him.soon i (ibless) will prove that.

EPISODE after he have challanged how stupid human being is.

Also he successful in making him stupid and due to him adam/s and mate/s expelled from the status. He proved them stupid.

Immediate question ( was God aware bout that challange) ?

HUMAN of present world

Rob, rape, murder, lie, consprisy, evil plotting, invasions, wars, political dramas, creating virus for newly introduced medicines, etc

Religious groups and sub groups by a single teaching resulting in different god/s numbered in millions by the same ignorant human being.

Ibless must b laughing although hell is prepared for him and others feel like God is worldly KING having emotions of taking revenge whoever is going agaisnt him.

SECOND line of thinking.

We should treat the story as STORY.
Becoz although human being proved himself ignorant and stupid but he still understand, if something does not make sense then its not from ORIGINAL god.

As yet ibless score is more than the human god of (story) By human tales of adam and mate.
IT appears he won over god/s dosent matter to him if he is going to hell.

Things are complicated in different other books who have that same story also got questions for reader but as i said before questions are lot but answers are really hard and unsatisfactory.

In the field of religious studies this story treated as theory over fact.
Same like in science some things are treated as theory.

At this point we need to wait for updated version or proven truth by some findings . Faith alone is not enough to crack that story and all points related to it.

rahi

Thanks for responding folks.

The 'ruh' of God within us is definitely interesting. In a way saying that it may have been justified for Iblis and others to prostrate to Adam. And yes, there's also the "disobedience" and arrogance piece.

The figurative language is also interesting.

So postrating means acknowledging your subservience to whoever you postrate to.

That seems like a good way of looking at those ayat.

One of the many reasons I've begun looking into this is because I've recently learnt that some sufi literature has sympathy of Iblis. In a way saying that Iblis himself did not want to bow down before anything but God. I thought that was quite interesting.

Some of the additional factoids from what I've gathered

Iblis was created out of fire (is Iblis a jinn or an angel, I'm not sure)
Iblis was granted by God respite until the day of resurrection (he/she/it can cause havoc until then pretty much with impunity)
Iblis will testify on the day of judgement and assert that he never had any power over us, he/she/it was only able to "suggest"
Iblis is an enemy to humans for sure, because he advocates deception and other poor forms of behaviour

I haven't come across anything in the Qur'an yet that speaks to the torment of Iblis.

The fact the he was cast out of God's heavenly presence seems pretty bad enough I guess. The way I see it, if Iblis was made of fire, and is thrown into fire, I'm not sure how bad it will be for Iblis. Perhaps not too bad. Imagine throwing some form of water into another form of water.

On the other hand, for humans who followed Iblis and who end up in the nar ????, that seems like a totally bad situation for sure.

Still I want to be more sure about the "yielding" vs "prostrating" translations. I want to know which is more accurate. Anyone with familiarity with the Arabic root stuff?

Thank you again for all who have responded.

imrankhawaja

Fire will effect on fire ?

Answer.

same way the dust will effect on dust when a brick from top of the floor can smash the human head like melon get smashed by human punch

Or a small rock can make u blind if you get hit on the eye .

Human or jinn or any creation is on the mercy of all powerful and all knowledgeable chemist who know very well in which way the pain enhanced to peak.

Example the hot fluid of hell will cut the intestines and will get boiled in stomach. Example here if we have to boil a liquid we need to use energy like fire on stove.
But liquid overthere got ability to get boiled by itself without using fire and when it will reach to stomach it will boiled by itself. Its scary like hell. The word hell is scary itself someone ages ago created a place called ghenna and the concept of afraid is still with us.we can say the trade mark of making human scared is = hell punishment.

In childhood we get scared by movies and soon we understand the horrors are designed to make us feel scared.
Till date in religious book series the fire/narag/hell/jahanum is successful concept from which lot of human beings get controlled or get scared. The buyers of those books believe in that concept from ages.

Real mother never make her children scared what if child get heartattack? Instead she will become a wall between whoever trying to scared her kids. Even the mothers in animals do the same.

Real God is far far more than worldly mother in every aspect.

Layth

Dear Rahi,

The word "sujood" can work both ways (yield or prostrate) depending on context.

Just like the word "Ayah" can be verse or sign depending on context.

Here is an example of "Sajada" as "Yield"

556 And the stars and the trees are yielding (yasjudaan).

Obviously trees cannot psychically prostrate nor can stars.

Here is an example of "Sajada" as "Prostrate"

3215 The only people who believe in Our revelations are those whom when they are reminded by them, they fall prostrating (kharoo sujaada), and they glorify the praise of their Lord, and they are not arrogant.

I would say for the story of Adam, "Yield" is the more correct understanding since Jinn do not have psychical form (made of fire) and it would seem that Satan would be more upset for being asked to be subservient to the race of humans than to do one quick "bend the knee" episode.

rahi

Got it.The contextual understanding is why the word was translated as "yield". That makes sense to me.

It's like the Ar'rahman (Almighty vs Most Merciful) or Kursi (Chair vs Throne) reading.

This answers my question. Thank you.

Mazhar

yield
/jiːld/
Learn to pronounce
verb
verb yield; 3rd person present yields; past tense yielded; past participle yielded; gerund or present participle yielding
1.
produce or provide (a natural, agricultural, or industrial product).
"the land yields grapes and tobacco"
produce or generate (a result, gain, or financial return).
"this method yields the same results"
synonyms produce, bear, give, supply, provide, afford, return, bring in, pull in, haul in, gather in, fetch, earn, net, realize, generate, furnish, bestow, pay out, contribute; informalrake in
"too many projects yield poor returns"
2.
give way to arguments, demands, or pressure.
"the Western powers now yielded when they should have resisted"
synonyms surrender, capitulate, submit, relent, admit defeat, accept defeat, concede defeat, back down, climb down, quit, give in, give up the struggle, lay down one's arms, raise/show the white flag, knuckle under; More
antonyms resist, defy
relinquish possession of.
"they might yield up their secrets"
synonyms relinquish, surrender, part with, deliver up, hand over, turn over, give over; More
antonyms retain
concede (a point of dispute).
"I yielded the point"
NORTH AMERICAN
give right of way to other traffic.
3.
(of a mass or structure) give way under force or pressure.
"he reeled into the house as the door yielded"
synonyms bend, give, flex, be flexible, be pliant
"the floorboards yielded underfoot"
noun
noun yield; plural noun yields
1.
an amount produced of an agricultural or industrial product.
"the milk yield was poor"
a financial return.
"an annual dividend yield of 20 per cent"
synonyms profit, gain, return, reward, revenue, dividend, proceeds, receipts, earnings, takings; More

hawk99

Siin-Jiim-Dal = lowly, humble, submissive, worship, adore, prostrate,
make obeisance, lower/bend oneself down towards the ground, lower the
head, to salute/honor/magnify, to pay respect, to stand up, to look continuedly and
tranquilly.

obeisance = respect

basically "be nice to"

acquiesce
synonyms permit, consent to, agree to, allow, assent to, give one's consent to,
accept, concur with, give one's assent to, give one's blessing to, say yes to, give
the nod to, give one's approval to; More comply with, conform to, abide by,
respect, stand by, cooperate with, tolerate, brook;

give in to, bow to, yield to, submit to;

informal go along with, give the go-ahead to, give the thumbs up to, okay, give the green light to,

And when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated,
except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.

Why did he refuse?

said, "What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?" said, "I am
better than him. You created me from fire and created him from clay."

peace

Jafar

Does anybody here wondered

How could something defy God's will, let alone order in the first place? As, by concept, God is all powerful and everything happened in accordance to God's will and plan?
Assuming that God did 'ordered' anyone (or anything), in this case Mr (or is it Miss?) Iblis to "prostrate" to Adam and Mr/Ms Iblis refused, doesn't God already know before even issuing the order, that he (or she) will refuse? Or it came as a surprise for God that Mr/Ms Iblis dare to defy His order?

Bikrun

Does anybody here wondered

How could something defy God's will, let alone order in the first place? As, by concept, God is all powerful and everything happened in accordance to God's will and plan?
Assuming that God did 'ordered' anyone (or anything), in this case Mr (or is it Miss?) Iblis to "prostrate" to Adam and Mr/Ms Iblis refused, doesn't God already know before even issuing the order, that he (or she) will refuse? Or it came as a surprise for God that Mr/Ms Iblis dare to defy His order?

Salam

I think maybe Iblis him/herself gives the answer on 1539. Still calling Him "my Lord", Iblis says because the Lord mislead him, he will do the same until the last day (which was not referred before in the "argument&quot.

Ergo God knew from the begining and imo thats why Iblis keeps calling Him "My Lord". he/she is not defying God, he understands that he/she is part of the plan.

Jafar

I think maybe Iblis him/herself gives the answer on 1539. Still calling Him "my Lord", Iblis says because the Lord mislead him, he will do the same until the last day (which was not referred before in the "argument&quot.

Ergo God knew from the begining and imo thats why Iblis keeps calling Him "My Lord". he/she is not defying God, he understands that he/she is part of the plan.

On 1532, God asked a question to Mr Iblis "what is with you that you are not with those who prostrate?"
Mr Iblis should answered "I don't know, sometimes I don't do things which I myself don't understand, but hey you're God right? The all knowing? You should know me better than my self is it? You created me after all and have everything already planned"

The above story has the same logical problem as the story of Adam and eating the fruit thing. God said don't eat this fruit --> Adam get curious and eat the fruit --> God get angry and punished Adam.

It is because the story author put the "Director" to become an "Actor" as well in the story.

God Everybody! pay your respect to Adam.

Everybody pay respect to Adam *

God <Whispering> Pssst... Iblis... have you read my script? You are not supposed to pay your respect, you're supposed to refuse my order.
Iblis Oh!! ok.. hmm... mmm... sorry..

God Iblis! What is with you that you are not with those who pay their respect?
Iblis What's with me?? what's with me?? hmmm..

God Psst...Iblis... clay.. clay..
Iblis Ah yes.. clay... ehmm ehmm.... never..... never would I pay my respect to a human whom You created out of clay.

imrankhawaja

Still calling Him "my Lord", Iblis says because the Lord mislead him, he will do the same until the last day (which was not referred before in the "argument&quot.

he/she is not defying God, he understands that he/she is part of the plan.

so God planned to mislead ibless in advance rotfl

another discrepancy in this story is, ibless dnt have any way back home .. hmm

is ibless allowed to repent ?
can ibless repent ?

this story is now asking questions about the mercy of God upon his creation.. confused

It is because the story author put the "Director" to become an "Actor" as well in the story.

for making a movie director must have a role of villain thats why ibless get sacrificed in story. although he charged a fee of his/her ROLE from God to live eternal life until the day of judgement with free hand, now millions of crimes are over his head and he dnt have to worry about anything at all..untill last day.. >D

Jafar

is ibless allowed to repent ?
can ibless repent ?
this story is now asking questions about the mercy of God upon his creation.. confused

But most certainly he/she can 'retire'...

Based on the amount of brutality that human has did, which by any means has exceeded what Iblis capable of doing such as refusing to pay respect, proud, lies, deceit, persuading to eat a fruit, which are 'minuscule' compared to human's genocide, mass torture, rape and persecution.

But Iblis still play a role as a scapegoat to be blamed for all human's ferocious deed and as a justification by a group of self-claimed pious human to perform ferocious deeds to other human. "Burn them alive!! They're witches!! servant of the devil!!".

huruf

Some people speak of Ibliis with such familiarity as if they had supper, breakfast and lunch with hi everyday and spent with him the time in between those meals, they also speak as if they did that with god himself. I guess those who speak that way are gods themselves.

This is a blessed forum, to have so many gods amongst us...

If nto blessed, at least entertaining, which is not bad either

Salaam

good_logic

Or some are Iblis ,disguised as human.
Just like they are many gods, there are many more Iblis. In fact they outnumber the gods. Of course ,without sounding confusing , these gods are Iblis and these Iblis are gods .
And the journey continues with Iblis as god.

Oh, and they know everything and much more.
In fact some think they know more than GOD. Subhana Allah!!!!

Hats off to the comedian whose catch phrase is "I KNOW NOTHING"!!!!

GOD bless you all including Iblis.
Yes, even Gehannah could be a blessing in disguise for Iblis if it stops from mischief?
Peace.

imrankhawaja

Experts need to update that story with some sound justification or gods of quranic interpretation need to understand basic abc of arabic rotfl

Or they have option to admit and swallow the defeat of unlocking the correct interpretation.

BTW it appear in story God, ibless and high counsil was having a cup of tea before the ritual of "sajda" or it appear to audeince of story they were talking face to face with eachother . Poor audeince(READERS) lol.

Although its entertaining at extreme coz for the first time all linguist also pondering bout the sex of ibless he or she rotfl or IT it wil b a happy news for all males if they find out ibless was female lmao. rotfl hatsoff to OP who raised this point of entertainment.

imrankhawaja

But most certainly he/she can 'retire'...

Based on the amount of brutality that human has did, which by any means has exceeded what Iblis capable of doing such as refusing to pay respect, proud, lies, deceit, persuading to eat a fruit, which are 'minuscule' compared to human's genocide, mass torture, rape and persecution.

But Iblis still play a role as a scapegoat to be blamed for all human's ferocious deed and as a justification by a group of self-claimed pious human to perform ferocious deeds to other human. "Burn them alive!! They're witches!! servant of the devil!!".

He cant get retirement , his trademark of evil is getting increased even if somebody try to steal his trademark, ibless still getting ownership of that evil.(he is doing a riskfree business/job) in which he alone claimed that ownership.

Ibless himself entertained on events in which criminal blamed the crimes on ibless.

Example event i was reading a news once in which a molvee/mulla/keeper of mosque bribe his own student of quran to shut his mouth on the evil act done by him ( he seduce his student and ending in success).
After that he admits and said its due tu ibless i commit that sin.

On the other hand ibless must b laughing rotfl and was saying i ibless dnt even think bout it you humans are awsome in multiplying sin with your own mind setup.

And another event when a human raped an animal what was reserved for eid sacrifice and he blamed it to ibless
And ibless was thinking that idea was not even in my mind ... rotfl

After a while they buy a new animal for sacrifice and upon asking from the owner of animal what you did with that victim animal? And he replied in a funny way we kept that animal for that specific purpose rotfl ibless dnt have to do much now a days instead of retirement i think he should go to holidays lmao .

Jafar

Or some are Iblis ,disguised as human.
Just like they are many gods, there are many more Iblis. In fact they outnumber the gods. Of course ,without sounding confusing , these gods are Iblis and these Iblis are gods .
And the journey continues with Iblis as god.

And what should we call those who believe that there are many iblis(es)?
Polyiblist? rotfl

Would Iblis be angry towards the Polyiblist? And torture them for all eternity?
Does he (or she) demand the 'true believer' to testify that there are no iblis other than iblis?

Oh, and they know everything and much more.
In fact some think they know more than GOD. Subhana Allah!!!!

Yes this is the ridiculous part of Quran story...
In the Quran God asked a question to Iblis... rotfl
On 1532, God asked a question to Mr Iblis "what is with you that you are not with those who prostrate?"

Although its entertaining at extreme coz for the first time all linguist also pondering bout the sex of ibless he or she rotfl or IT it wil b a happy news for all males if they find out ibless was female lmao. rotfl hatsoff to OP who raised this point of entertainment.

The legend of Iblis / devil evolved through time....
In a version of this ancient (originally Sumerian) legend, the 'party' who seduced Adam was not iblis but Lilith. And Lilith as the name implies is a female. She was told to be Adam's true first wife until she had an affair with an Archangel named Samael and left Adam.... what a 'heavenly entertainment gossip' isn't it?

https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith

Documentary by History channel about the origin and evolution of the Satan legend throughout time.

The Origin and Evolution of Satan
https//youtu.be/HIP-a-rA_Xw

Example event i was reading a news once in which a molvee/mulla/keeper of mosque bribe his own student of quran to shut his mouth on the evil act done by him ( he seduce his student and ending in success).
After that he admits and said its due tu ibless i commit that sin.

On the other hand ibless must b laughing rotfl and was saying i ibless dnt even think bout it you humans are awsome in multiplying sin with your own mind setup.

And another event when a human raped an animal what was reserved for eid sacrifice and he blamed it to ibless After a while they buy a new animal for sacrifice and upon asking from the owner of animal what you did with that victim animal? And he replied in a funny way we kept that animal for that specific purpose rotfl ibless dnt have to do much now a days instead of retirement i think he should go to holidays lmao .

If this Ibless really exist, he should responded with
"I don't know you and why would I wasted my time with you and your miserable horny life!! Stop blaming me!! and If you want to f&k an animal that's your own f&&ing business but for human sake!! at least get a room!!"
rotfl

I really recommend to Iblees (if he exist) to start looking for a human lawyer and start suing millions of human who always accuse him for the things he didn't do. File for Defamation or Slander and make million $$$ claim for immaterial damage to his reputation.