Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
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Salam Wakas,
You will find a study here https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610603.30
Some points
(1) The main and original meaning of the word "TaLLa" (root Ta-Lam-Lam) in Hebrew like in Arabic is to Heap...This is the main corruption in some classic dictionnary
(2) Link this passage with ALL the surah 37 to have a better understanding
(3) Research the structure (determined the key movie sequences) of this passage
=> all this points are discussed in the link above.Last but MAIN important points
(1) Before understanding this passage it is imporant to understand what is the vision of God in the Quran Al-Rahman..
(2) who blows evil into the breasts of men ? (Cf. surah 113-114) Or, clearly here God gives to Abraham a vision..NB good remark with the preposition "li" (destination, possession)
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Salam Wakas,
I realize that I rushed to answer you. The points you raise are interesting especially with the word "TaLLa" and "the vision" (al ru'ya).
You could add the verb "ṣaddaqta" in (37105) with its form 2 (repetition of an effort in time which corresponds well with the word l-ṣābirīna used to characterize Ismael). This verb expresses the idea of an accomplishment, of the realization of something in adequacy with one's desire.I do not agree with your conculsion especially on the word dhib'hin/sacrifice "(root Dh-BH) which for me must be takes in a figurative sense of "to devote oneself to" (..in the context of the passage, to a noble and divine cause like the other prophets cited as an example in this surah).
And the reward is that God made sure that his remembrance and his work are saved for posterity (again in coherence with the other prophets cited in this surah).Otherwise, to return to the word "TaLLa", your approach is interesting and seductive. This words appears in a sequence where, just after this words erupts, Ismael disappears and there remains only God and Ismael as if Ismael was no longer present ; and that Abraham, after fulfilling his mission with Ismael, let Ismael continue alone the work begun in this corner of the desert.
So we would have (I repeat your translation) the following successive sequences(1) So when they are submitted => The accomplished is used here so the realization of the vision is finished
(2) and he (Abraham) brought ** him (son) to *** his (Abraham's) forehead (or side of head). => The accomplished is here also used and according to your conception Abraham says goodbye with tenderness to his son (smaller than him)
(3) And We called him "O Abraham," .. => Abraham departed from his son and God thanked Abraham and comforted him in some way because what he did with his son will be remembered in the memories of men.
Finally, there is no time sequence in Surah 37 between the moment of vision and that of realization.
This sequence is found in Surah (2124-129).
Thus, if it is the case as I think, I lack an element to be convinced by your understanding of the verb "Talla"
How do you translate and understand (2127) ?
Muhammad Asad (The Message Of Quran)
2127 And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the Bayt, "O our Sustainer! Accept Thou this from us for, verily, Thou alone art all-hearing, all-knowing!"Sorry in advance if you have already answered this question elsewhere in this forum.
Knowing that if we trust the Bible on this particular subject Abraham was building altars dedicated to God in different places.Peace. Thanks for sharing your meditation and reflection.
NB How do you incorporate images into message ? )
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Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son?
New article - click HEREFeedback welcome, especially corrections. Thanks.
No, Allah does not advocate evil. Abraham's dream was his own.
His intention was to obey Allah but like many who commit evil acts
in the name of Allah he thought that it was Allah who was inspiring him.
By Allah's blessing and grace and brother Abraham's reflection he
came to his senses and did not carry out the evil deed.peace
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To understand a text, first ting is to determine the type of text. Without, whatever is perceived it is erroneous. Each type of text has distinct choice of words and structures.
Firstly we should determine the type of text in 37100-113.
I don't know what you mean by "type of text" but, as Allah says in the Quran, if you isolate passage or ayats you may be erroneous like if you don't have a "Raḥmān-ic" context reading of the text..(put the "Basmala" in your heart and as a reading grid).
37100-113 is not isolated from a bigger structure which is 3775-148 and of all the surah 37 and surah 38 and surah 2 and all the quran..For example, the only surah where Abraham AND Ishmael act together is surah 37 and 2...It is not a coincidence all is linked.
For example, the quality of Ishmael is repeated here
- 2185 And Ishmael and Enoch and Isaiah, all of them were persevering. (alssabireena => same root in surah 37.)
- 1954 And recall in the Writing, Ishmael; he was truthful to his promise, and he was a messenger prophet. (promise ? Which promise ? Look at surah 37..)
@hawk99 => Abraham knows the essence of his master (Rahma as we must know FIRST) and he is able to make the difference between a bad/evil order and a good order. If you read the story of abaraham you will realize that Abraham is someone who doubts and questions the "obvious" things (even from hiw own father !). But in surah 37 there is no place for doubt from Abraham or Ishmael so the vision was clear and the origin has been from God.
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No, Allah does not advocate evil. Abraham's dream was his own.
His intention was to obey Allah but like many who commit evil acts
in the name of Allah he thought that it was Allah who was inspiring him.
By Allah's blessing and grace and brother Abraham's reflection he
came to his senses and did not carry out the evil deed.peace
Is anything you have said actually based on Quran? If so please provide the evidence.
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I don't know what you mean by "type of text" but, as Allah says in the Quran, if you isolate passage or ayats you may be erroneous like if you don't have a "Raḥmān-ic" context reading of the text..(put the "Basmala" in your heart and as a reading grid).
How strange! A man working on semitic rhetoric shows ignorance about type of text. Please just google to see how many are types of text and their characteristics, peculiar features. And thereafter look at 37100-13.
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How strange! A man working on semitic rhetoric shows ignorance about type of text. Please just google to see how many are types of text and their characteristics, peculiar features. And thereafter look at 37100-13.
Sarcasm brings nothing and read/meditate my text to the end instead of cutting it and take what you want.
And as you know I already posted the structure of this passage here https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610603.30 (Go to the last message)A clarification I do not work on the Semitic rhetoric but on the way in which the Koranic speech is structured and coherent and harmonious. Semitic rhetoric is only a tool adapted to the Qur'anic context and to highlight relations between ayats in the Koran
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Sarcasm brings nothing and read/meditate my text to the end instead of cutting it and take what you want.
And as you know I already posted the structure of this passage here https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610603.30 (Go to the last message)A clarification I do not work on the Semitic rhetoric but on the way in which the Koranic speech is structured and coherent and harmonious. Semitic rhetoric is only a tool adapted to the Qur'anic context and to highlight relations between ayats in the Koran
Ayah 100-113 is a Narrative. Narrative is a Factual Recount. Narrative texts have to do with real-world events and time. The purposes of narrative may be to inform, to persuade and/or to correct the record, rectify the falsities gleaned by people from the Epistemology of Testimony. The main structural components of a narrative are the orientation, the complication and the resolution, and may include a concluding statement or comment in order to sum up the message.
Narrative writing uses time as its deep structure. Language features of narrative text are
Adverb of time.
Past Tense is used except in conversations.
Time conjunction (when, then, thereat, suddenly, etc)
Specific character. The character of the episode is specific, not general.
Action verbs. A verb that shows an action.
Direct speech. It is to make the episode lively.
The vocabulary is usually everyday language, depending on the subject matter.
When we keep such basic academic points, we can watch the event in the text.
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Is anything you have said actually based on Quran? If so please provide the evidence.
Peace Wakas, perhaps I should clarify my position.
No, Allah does not advocate evil . Abraham's dream
was his own. (nowhere in Quran does it state that Abrahams
dream was from Allah, Muhammad's dream as well as Yusuf's dream
were both from Allah) His intention was to obey Allah but like many who
commit evil acts in the name of Allah he thought that it was Allah who
was inspiring him. By Allah's blessing and grace and brother
Abraham's reflection - he used his God given
blessing of reflection to reach the right conclusion.peace
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Peace Wakas, perhaps I should clarify my position.
No, Allah does not advocate evil . Abraham's dream
was his own. (nowhere in Quran does it state that Abrahams
dream was from Allah, Muhammad's dream as well as Yusuf's dream
were both from Allah) His intention was to obey Allah but like many who
commit evil acts in the name of Allah he thought that it was Allah who
was inspiring him. By Allah's blessing and grace and brother
Abraham's reflection - he used his God given
blessing of reflection to reach the right conclusion.Peace hawk99,
(1)
You have reason to underline Abraham's reflection but please note this sentence from Allah37 106
this (was) surely the trial CLEAR in itself.(2)
Also, Ishmael says "if allah intends" in 37102 so the vision comes from Allah without doubt.Salam
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How can a student of Qoran even consider that GOD would do such a thing?
Have a look again at GOD s attributes!!!!
My GOD of Qoran would not order Fahisha/Murder....What? Would GOD contradict Himself? Subhannah Allah!!!Thou shall not kill is one of the commands. Do not even contemplate the idea.
End of the argument. Or are we looking for a verse that clearly indicates "GOD did not instruct Abraham and had nothing to do with the vision"?
it is clear that one cannot find the verse that clearly identifies the dream to be from GOD? Is that not enough?GOD bless.
Peace. -
How can a student of Qoran even consider that GOD would do such a thing?
Have a look again at GOD s attributes!!!!
My GOD of Qoran would not order Fahisha/Murder....What? Would GOD contradict Himself? Subhannah Allah!!!Thou shall not kill is one of the commands. Do not even contemplate the idea.
End of the argument. Or are we looking for a verse that clearly indicates "GOD did not instruct Abraham and had nothing to do with the vision"?
it is clear that one cannot find the verse that clearly identifies the dream to be from GOD? Is that not enough?GOD bless.
Peace.Salam Good logic,
Do you adress your critic to me ? Because i NEVER say that the vision was about to kill his son (Read my previous interventions in différents threads + it contradict the Basmala and surah 113-114).
Otherwise sorry for this post.Peace
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My post was not addressed to you in particular brother Iyyaka.
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It was addressing the title of the topic. i.e Of course Qoran never said "GOD told Abraham to sacrifice his son...".
Thank you brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
My post was not addressed to you in particular brother Iyyaka.
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It was addressing the title of the topic. i.e Of course Qoran never said "GOD told Abraham to sacrifice his son...".
Thank you brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Ok
Some might think it's a lot of energy to spend on braham history and this small ayat (37102) but I think it's the heart of our vision of God that is at stake and this vision influences our behavior.
We can say "I put my trust (not Believe) in Allah" but which Allah? This is a fundamental question that must also allow us to have a "Rhamanic" reading of the Qur'an.
Peace and god bless u -
Peace Wakas, I do like your analogy of the father and son's heartfelt
separation, but when you say"No mention of a misinterpreted dream is found in Quran, and this position
requires us to believe that both Abraham and his son misinterpreted it,
which seems unlikely. Note that his son clearly thought it was a command."Could it not be that his son simply believed his father and replied "do as you are
commanded"peace
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Kim Il Sun Son, what do you say if I kill you as a sacrifice to our Korean gods?
Kim Jong Il Do as you please dad.
Kim Il Sun ** Lifting his dagger to kill his own son **
Kim Jong Suk STOP!!! WTF are you doing!! Il Suk!! Are you F&*ng insane??????? He's our child!!!
That's it.. I had enough with this!!
Jong Il!!! Come with Mama.. we're leaving this nuthouse.. your dad is F&*ng insane!!
As for you Il Sun!! That's it.. I had enough of this.. I'm filing for a divorce.. and you don't deserve any parental rights!! -
Kim Il Sun Son, what do you say if I kill you as a sacrifice to our Korean gods?
Kim Jong Il Do as you please dad.
Kim Il Sun ** Lifting his dagger to kill his own son **
Kim Jong Suk STOP!!! WTF are you doing!! Il Suk!! Are you F&*ng insane??????? He's our child!!!
That's it.. I had enough with this!!
Jong Il!!! Come with Mama.. we're leaving this nuthouse.. your dad is F&*ng insane!!
As for you Il Sun!! That's it.. I had enough of this.. I'm filing for a divorce.. and you don't deserve any parental rights!!in old times people were so sure that God pleased with the color of blood , hence sins can only wash with the help of blood sacrifice..
SACRIFICE type of feelings and actions are assets to human values therefore stories related with sacrifice leave impression on heart and mind of people..
even in this time/space we have to sacrifice ourselves in lot of things to achieve a status of having in someones good books...
millions of poor animals are still paying the price of sacrifice in the name of that event.. blood thirsty land and the land owners cant get rid of coloring the land with red, its a cultural insanity transfer from tradition to tradition in different make up..
years ago i watched a movie Apocalypto even on the other side of world not yet discovered by ancient people, that practice of maya civilisation was going on there ..
the ending part of movie was interesting as soon human get rid from one concept of ignorance another new ignorant concept is waiting for him.
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peace,
Peace Wakas, I do like your analogy of the father and son's heartfelt
separation, but when you say"No mention of a misinterpreted dream is found in Quran, and this position
requires us to believe that both Abraham and his son misinterpreted it,
which seems unlikely. Note that his son clearly thought it was a command."Could it not be that his son simply believed his father and replied "do as you are
commanded"Abraham asked his son for his view (i.e. "look what you see?", so this suggests his son did exactly that, i.e. gave Abraham his considered opinion. Essentially he concurred with Abraham, emphasising to do as he has been commanded and he (the son) will be of the patient ones, if God willed.
Yes but the son did not object to anything
