Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha

[Mazhar]

Thank you for taking your time to respond with your up to date translations of the concerned verses..

Well.. What to say.. Better say no comments...

One thing I realized is you say one thing and do one thing... You know why I say this to your face... It is coz you were emphasising with imperfect verb and its usage though it is a minute matter in my perception taking into consideration the verse, but you have brought additional words and imaginations to your translations... That's horrendous translation... I thought I would get something which has absolute meaning..
At least you got it as slaughter when it comes to boy... But it is like a building without foundation..

May Allah guide you ... Guidance from Allah and self approaching in compulsion towards guidance has huge difference... Guidance is a mercy which in facts satisfies hearts..

Thank you ..

Thanks. Guidance from Allah the Exalted is only through the Book, Qur'an. So we have to study the Book not by our own wishes but strictly according to the diction and grammar of the book. Else is mere passion.

[Mazhar]

In the entire thread what was the most annoying and ridiculous, it was alleging Satan deluded the exalted Messenger, declared and chosen as Friend by Allah the Exalted. While Satan had himself pronounced he will try delude every body except the Chosen Subjects of Allah, the Messengers.

[jkhan]

Thanks. Guidance from Allah the Exalted is only through the Book, Qur'an. So we have to study the Book not by our own wishes but strictly according to the diction and grammar of the book. Else is mere passion.

I absolutely do not agree any of above.. First of all you didn't get what guidance is... Guidance is not merely from book.. Not at all.. Of course Quran is full of guidance written in it.. But Quran won't guide anyone.. Allah guides... Just coz taking dictionary and grammar one won't get guided... That's the worst one can think of... God should guide him to choose what is right even from Quran... Reading and knowing is not guidance but approaching the truth can only be with guidance of Allah.. Everyone can choose any meaning to a word and comply with grammar and it doesn't mean it is guidance.. Author has written the verses and it has sheer meaning when author was writing it and if one fails to realize what author meant then he has not read the genuine book what author wrote but he fabricated a frame out of the book..

Further to Quran is the only guidance.. Come on.. No way.. 90 % of guidance is shown in built.. God says look at the camel how it is created.. Quran doesn't teaches us how it is created but we have to camels characteristics for that one needs knowledge and wisdom.. So. He realized why Quran says to see how camel is created.. Nature is God's creation.. And full of guidance.. Quran enhances the state of mind of a person and perhaps he can get convinced... First one need to be concious(thaqwa).. Then only guidance can even reach him.. that's why God says Quran guides to those who are concious... So state of conciousness is already a guidance from Allah and such concious people use Quran as a tool to get convinced their conciousness...

Thank you..

[jkhan]

In the entire thread what was the most annoying and ridiculous, it was alleging Satan deluded the exalted Messenger, declared and chosen as Friend by Allah the Exalted. While Satan had himself pronounced he will try delude every body except the Chosen Subjects of Allah, the Messengers.

Of course Satan alluded Ibrahim and he alluded anyone on this earth... Just you don't read Satans mind. Lol. He indeed meant who are destined to Janna when he said except few... Everyone who enters Janna also deluded by Satan at various points but those believers indeed realize immediately... You think satan is exempted from reaching to Messengers or prophets and real believers ... He took respite in order he can send astray people. But he will be successful if he in fact sends them astray for life time... Everyone on this earth has erred and it means satan got the grip over them when they err... Musa is chosen one... Didn't he kill a person? No one kills without Satans influence.. What musa indeed say after killing the person.. He immediately blamed Satan... When Ibrahim demolished it is indeed satanic work against a community and their choice of devotion...

Look not only satan but Allah also said ... Just read carefully the dialogue between Allah and iblees (1539 onwards) Yes.. Satan has no authority to send the saliheen astray but saliheen are not immune from Satan... But saliheen not FOLLOW SATAN forever.. Saliheen immediately realizes this is Satan who inspires us.. Just mind this.. Everyone who enters Janna one day, has been duped by Satan in their life at certain point so they erred but they reformed and they kept away satanic evil actions continuously and seeking forgiveness.. Don't assign purity to human. No one is pure... You are taking the verse as if only those chosen one will enter janna and they were flawless coz Satan never touched them with whispers.. Remember behind every blunder of believers Satan plays a role...
Even Ibrahim to say the Sun is my Lord at least for few hours is indeed whispers of Satan but Ibrahim didn't listen to stand whispers but he approached seeking guidance of Allah..

Everyone errs and that means Satans influences but those who err reform are real Ibadi what Allah meant in great feud.. God didn't send people who are flawless to earth to be tested.. That's ridiculous for that matter..

Have you not erred bro..? Your heart knows...dont you like to enter janna.. So if you have reformed, are you not Ibadi of Allah in positive sense.. So.. Isn't this what SATAN said except your real Ibadi and isn't this what Allah also said you have no authority my real Ibadi..

Just comprehend quran in real sense rather than cooking too much with grammar... Just choose right meaning of a word that solves all issues even grammar.. Just the word and ita true meaning matters.. For example.. Zaka = what in Quran.. Just get the meaning right of every word so impulsively all grammar will be in line with it... If word itself goes wrong what is the point of grammar.. Does it make sense..????

[jkhan]

In the entire thread what was the most annoying and ridiculous, it was alleging Satan deluded the exalted Messenger, declared and chosen as Friend by Allah the Exalted. While Satan had himself pronounced he will try delude every body except the Chosen Subjects of Allah, the Messengers.

My translation is in the link if you wish to reflect...

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9612311.20

Thank you... We all seek guidance towards ultimate goal alone ... Let truth prevail whoever speaks it....

[Mazhar]

Of course Satan alluded Ibrahim and he alluded anyone on this earth... Just you don't read Satans mind. Lol. He indeed meant who are destined to Janna when he said except few... Everyone who enters Janna also deluded by Satan at various points but those believers indeed realize immediately... You think satan is exempted from reaching to Messengers or prophets and real believers ... He took respite in order he can send astray people. But he will be successful if he in fact sends them astray for life time... Everyone on this earth has erred and it means satan got the grip over them when they err... Musa is chosen one... Didn't he kill a person? No one kills without Satans influence.. What musa indeed say after killing the person.. He immediately blamed Satan... When Ibrahim demolished it is indeed satanic work against a community and their choice of devotion...

Look not only satan but Allah also said ... Just read carefully the dialogue between Allah and iblees (1539 onwards) Yes.. Satan has no authority to send the saliheen astray but saliheen are not immune from Satan... But saliheen not FOLLOW SATAN forever.. Saliheen immediately realizes this is Satan who inspires us.. Just mind this.. Everyone who enters Janna one day, has been duped by Satan in their life at certain point so they erred but they reformed and they kept away satanic evil actions continuously and seeking forgiveness.. Don't assign purity to human. No one is pure... You are taking the verse as if only those chosen one will enter janna and they were flawless coz Satan never touched them with whispers.. Remember behind every blunder of believers Satan plays a role...
Even Ibrahim to say the Sun is my Lord at least for few hours is indeed whispers of Satan but Ibrahim didn't listen to stand whispers but he approached seeking guidance of Allah..

Everyone errs and that means Satans influences but those who err reform are real Ibadi what Allah meant in great feud.. God didn't send people who are flawless to earth to be tested.. That's ridiculous for that matter..

Have you not erred bro..? Your heart knows...dont you like to enter janna.. So if you have reformed, are you not Ibadi of Allah in positive sense.. So.. Isn't this what SATAN said except your real Ibadi and isn't this what Allah also said you have no authority my real Ibadi..

Just comprehend quran in real sense rather than cooking too much with grammar... Just choose right meaning of a word that solves all issues even grammar.. Just the word and ita true meaning matters.. For example.. Zaka = what in Quran.. Just get the meaning right of every word so impulsively all grammar will be in line with it... If word itself goes wrong what is the point of grammar.. Does it make sense..????

Linguist D. A. Wilkins (1972) has the famous line "Without grammar very little can be conveyed, without vocabulary nothing can be conveyed."

[jkhan]

Linguist D. A. Wilkins (1972) has the famous line "Without grammar very little can be conveyed, without vocabulary nothing can be conveyed."

Everyone knows that.. Isn't it.. That's why kids find hard at school even their own language ..
But matter here is not about that.. Words and its true meaning... All controversies in meaning of words... As I said earlier if the meaning of words are shrewdly twisted, then what is the use grammar.. Just answer to that... You love beating around the bush.. Don't you.. Lol..

[Mazhar]

Since some assertions are patently erroneous and misleading for those who do not know the genealogy and operating system of Arabic, and many are there who assign meanings that associate not with the source words; I consider it necessary to explain the most important aspect of this episode.

Those who do (يُلْحِدُونَ) this are forewarned.

A transitive word needs an object to complete the statement.
The object is usually a single word.
But Arabic also uses a whole verbal sentence in the meaning of object. Firstly that sentence is analysed on its own structure and then is interpreted as Verbal Noun as object for the verb.

The object of imperfect verb أَرَىٰ is أَنِّیۤ أَذۡبَحُكَ

When we wrangle only to stick what we said earlier we miss many things in the source text. The verb like particle أن renders the following verb in subjunctive meanings.

The subjunctive as a concept in grammar refers, in general, to that which is uncertain or related to emotion. Often it is used for things which are sought, desired, or feared, but which are not necessarily realized.

[Mazhar]

Pertinent Question

What made the son to conclude that it is a command which is being given to his father?

Speculation? Or logical inference drawn from Father's statement?

[jkhan]

Since some assertions are patently erroneous and misleading for those who do not know the genealogy and operating system of Arabic, and many are there who assign meanings that associate not with the source words; I consider it necessary to explain the most important aspect of this episode.

Those who do (يُلْحِدُونَ) this are forewarned.

A transitive word needs an object to complete the statement.
The object is usually a single word.
But Arabic also uses a whole verbal sentence in the meaning of object. Firstly that sentence is analysed on its own structure and then is interpreted as Verbal Noun as object for the verb.

The object of imperfect verb أَرَىٰ is أَنِّیۤ أَذۡبَحُكَ

When we wrangle only to stick what we said earlier we miss many things in the source text. The verb like particle أن renders the following verb in subjunctive meanings.

The subjunctive as a concept in grammar refers, in general, to that which is uncertain or related to emotion. Often it is used for things which are sought, desired, or feared, but which are not necessarily realized.

Be satisfied with what you do...
I am happy with guidance of Allah...

Thank you ....

[jkhan]

Pertinent Question

What made the son to conclude that it is a command which is being given to his father?

Speculation? Or logical inference drawn from Father's statement?

You have concluded.. Not son.. Son never said he concluded it is a command.. Son said " carry out / execute what is enjoined / commanded..... So son only says the basic coz Ibrahim said he is seeing sacrificing him and asking his suggestion... So rightly said by son though he was a kid, carry out what is commanded... Every believe has to carry out what is commanded / enjoined on them.. That's the characteristic of a believer..but son not questioned father on the authenticity of what he was about to carry out.. Son trusted Ibrahim coz he was a prophetic messenger and Ibrahim was duped by Satan..

Thank you...

[Mazhar]

Passion have no limit, they keep veiling the intellect.

Father said to him he sees in dream that he is about to slaughter you.

Did he opine it is what he is being commanded?

Son says do as you are being commanded.

What was in those words that the son is taking it as command of Allah to his father? Was it subtly implied in the statement of father?

[jkhan]

Passion have no limit, they keep veiling the intellect.

Father said to him he sees in dream that he is about to slaughter you.

Did he opine it is what he is being commanded?

Son says do as you are being commanded.

What was in those words that the son is taking it as command of Allah to his father? Was it subtly implied in the statement of father?

There is no passion in guidance and one seeks guidance for his own sake... It's not hobby to be passionate...

Just don't manipulate verses... Where in the verse it was stated ABOUT TO SLAUGHTER. .. From where you pick such meanings within limited words... He is seeing sacrificing him... It can be anything... To which point to what point Ibrahim saw the dream he only knows... But he is sure what he saw was sacrificing his son... Come on pls stop nonsense ..

You asked a pertinent question.. So I willingly replied... And you have no criticism on my answer but you raise many??????? In you le new thread...
Seek guidance pls .. I have nothing else reinstate regarding command... Just reflect... Thank you...

[Mazhar]

Now it is entering funny area..

أَذْبَحُكَ is slaughter first. --sacrificial slaughter.

وَإِذْ قَالَ مُوسَـىٰ لِقَوْمِهِۦٓ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَأْمُـرُكُمْ أَن تَذْبَحُوا۟ بَقَرَةٙۖ

لَأُعَذِّبَنَّهُۥ عَذَابٙا شَدِيدٙا أَوْ لَأَا۟ذبَحَنَّهُۥٓ أَوْ لَيَأْتِيَنِّى بِسُلْطَٟنٛ مُّبِيـنٛ .2721

[good_logic]

Qoran says what it says.
We have different interpretations of what Qoran says.
Is this not normal and works towards each one seeking Qoran to see for themselves what it says to them?
Therefore either follow others with what they think Qoran says or seek your own interpretation.

GOD told Abraham many things according to Qoran, Abraham obeyed and followed GOD s message, what is GOD telling each one of us, those who believe in Qoran s message, is the most important question.

To find out the answer of the topic s question, see for yourself what Qoran says about it or pick one you agree with from the replies so far or ...
I am encouraging you, those curious and still confused ,to check Qoran yourself.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.

[jkhan]

Now it is entering funny area..

أَذْبَحُكَ is slaughter first. --sacrificial slaughter.

وَإِذْ قَالَ مُوسَـىٰ لِقَوْمِهِۦٓ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَأْمُـرُكُمْ أَن تَذْبَحُوا۟ بَقَرَةٙۖ

لَأُعَذِّبَنَّهُۥ عَذَابٙا شَدِيدٙا أَوْ لَأَا۟ذبَحَنَّهُۥٓ أَوْ لَيَأْتِيَنِّى بِسُلْطَٟنٛ مُّبِيـنٛ .2721

Not now it enters funny area, but it was from the beginning ..those take the verses of God for fun and jest.. Needless to say.. It clearly shows your passion... Perhaps you stubborn having a website not being able to change all your views written in it if agree with truth.. You are stuck without being able to take a U turn... So it shows you are doing it for passion and passtime but you don't realise.. ..
You are the one turning the picture upside down and then questioning others what this picture looks like dude. ...

You turned the beautiful topic into funny... Coz your passion and whatever you published in your websites cannot be recalled.. So it looks funny to you even the truth.. What truth you have written in verse 37102 - 110 other than your own passion and funny inclusion from your own additional speculations... I don't mind people like TMTT or waqas giving different interpretations to one word like instead of sacrifice as dedicate.. That's their business and let them realize Eith time the truth of their statement God willed .. But adding nonsense to verses where it has nothing mentuoned is blasphemy which you do...

Do you remember I asked in another topic why you add naturally died animals while Allah has never mentioned word NATURALLY.. You shrewdly skipped.. This is job of passionate people they beat around the bush...

Mammals??? Are you not looking funny like conventional Muslims?
Again.. I reiterate you, if you love Allah truly fear Him and do whatever you do with honesty... I don't see any honesty in your translation and in the way you debate where you show lack of straightforwardness .. I don't mind even if you or wnyone show anger or use even use personal attacks and it happens in human nature in debates, I have seen and everyone has seen but your way is dangerous similar to followers of Hadith .. Making invention.. Do you know how big difference between about to slaughter and slaughtering... You speak at will..

[jkhan]

Father said to him he sees in dream that he is about to slaughter you.

Did he opine it is what he is being commanded?

Let me remind you one thing brother Mazhar...

Since everyone knows the difference between ABOUT to SLAUGHTER and SLAUGHTERING... Let me ask a question to you and everyone for their evidence purpose..

About to slaughter is not the completion of the task of slaughter.. While slaughtering is completion of the task.. Yes or No? I was about to cook and I am cooking.. Same?
Let's combine COMMAND with ABOUT to SLAUGHTER... if it is a command like you say then Ibrahim's duty is only up to about to slaughter and not less than that or more.. While the dream itself is about to slaughter, how come command be beyond about to slaughter?

If you say it was a command then let Ibrahim follow what was commanded... And the command is just to about to slaughter his son and going beyond that is against the literal command which was visioned.. Isn't it logical?
So funny your application of thought.. So my dear believers, our fellow believing brother Mazhar is telling or making us to tell that Ibrahim knew that he is never gonna slaughter but only foreplay... Coz he saw the dream about to slaughter... If he took the dream as command and then follow what he saw in dream... Isn't that fair?
So Mazhar is presenting to us that Father and son was playing a game and Allah not aware their conspiracy and God immediately interfered thinking he would slaughter his innocent son.. Blasphemy...

Your thoughts are ever gullible in this story coz you have chosen wrong option.. Truth prevails when truth is exposed.. Falsehood always leaks its weaknesses to those who seek truth with honest though falsehood almost look identical ..

Thank you..

[Mazhar]

Let me remind you one thing brother Mazhar...

Since everyone knows the difference between ABOUT to SLAUGHTER and SLAUGHTERING... Let me ask a question to you and everyone for their evidence purpose..

About to slaughter is not the completion of the task of slaughter.. While slaughtering is completion of the task.. Yes or No? I was about to cook and I am cooking.. Same?
Let's combine COMMAND with ABOUT to SLAUGHTER... if it is a command like you say then Ibrahim's duty is only up to about to slaughter and not less than that or more.. While the dream itself is about to slaughter, how come command be beyond about to slaughter?

If you say it was a command then let Ibrahim follow what was commanded... And the command is just to about to slaughter his son and going beyond that is against the literal command which was visioned.. Isn't it logical?
So funny your application of thought.. So my dear believers, our fellow believing brother Mazhar is telling or making us to tell that Ibrahim knew that he is never gonna slaughter but only foreplay... Coz he saw the dream about to slaughter... If he took the dream as command and then follow what he saw in dream... Isn't that fair?
So Mazhar is presenting to us that Father and son was playing a game and Allah not aware their conspiracy and God immediately interfered thinking he would slaughter his innocent son.. Blasphemy...

Your thoughts are ever gullible in this story coz you have chosen wrong option.. Truth prevails when truth is exposed.. Falsehood always leaks its weaknesses to those who seek truth with honest though falsehood almost look identical ..

Thank you..

It is totally an erroneous way of putting what I said.

He did not slaughtered him in the dream. What he said to son is "He will slaughter him". He did the action later to slaugter him تَلَّهُۥ لِلْجَبِيـنِ. This is ultimate action for slaughtering immediately before cutting the jugular vein. He was all set to slaughter. It is the moment that he is loudly called telling him whatever he had seen in the dream he has already acted upon that.

1. Father is repetitively watching a dream doing same act that suggests he is going to sacrifice his son.
2. He did not execute his dream. Were he willing to do it, he could have done it on first watch even without bringing into the notice of his son.
3. Repetitive dream of same act forces him to take it seriously since the fundamentals of interpretation of dreams suggested it to be not of unconscious and passive nature.
4. He places it before his son to know his perception.
5. The son interprets it as Command of Allah the Exalted and expresses it in such manner indicating that the Father also had arrived to same conclusion.
6. After this consensus, at that point in time, فَلَمَّا أَسْلَمَا when they both had at their own willingly agreed-accepted it as command of Allah the Exalted. Particle Fa is a conjunction indicating cause and effect. Verb is Perfect; Third person; dual; masculine; , Subject pronoun, in nominative state; مصدر اسْلاَمٌ Verbal Noun. For correctly perceiving text about episodes in any language, care needs to be taken for time and space indicated therein.
7. It is important to note that the son did not himself lie down but father laid him وَتَلَّهُ لِلْجَبِينِ down in the manner as vertebrates are sacrificed.
8. That was the point in time that he hears an emergency call aimed at immediately stopping him from further action.
9. Allah the Exalted tells him that he has affirmed, proven it to be exactly what he had seen in dream.

The intention of command through repetitive dreams is also indicated that it was just a manifest trial; and trial as we know is for purposes of exposure of one's sincerity, and for objects to determine their purity percentage. Actual Slaughter of son was not intended as disclosed by Allah the Exalted.

وَفَدَيْنَاهُ بِذِبْحٍ عَظِيم

And Our Majesty compensated him by sacrifice of a male mammal, characteristically great in bone not juvenile but adult—

I do not think that an animal meant for sacrifice has any thing do with what we perceive by the word great. Its primary signification is a state when someone has become great in bone .

It is a long tradition that only adult male mammals are sacrificed as was done by Ibrahim alaihissalm. It also helps balance the population of mammals since extra males are but a problem and nuisance for female population.

This is all from my side. Jewish disposition and slandering of Satanic delusions against the exalted Messenger it is their expression of granted freewill.

Thanks all for patience.

[jkhan]

Let truth prevail and let true believers choose truth from their Lord... Afterall truth is guidance.. Would anytging else be guidance other than truth ? Everyone can read Quran.. Everyone can choose what they want but only one truth... And Allah has already spoken the truth, but the issue is truth has not reached to certain people.. What could be the reason if God nullifies truth from His book unless if Allah wants misguidance?

Guidance is an amazing mercy... For example let me tell you all.. I was brought up from age 6 itself to fast full month fasting skipping food and drink and everyone was doing and it was a custom and got used to it.. Then reached to Quran at certain age and realized something fishy in what we do in the name of Islam.. Slowly but gradually Allah keep guiding me with His book and kept disclosing many hidden truth in it... So as per Quran I started to fast three days few years back and not satisfied ..something is bothering mind... Researched and researched. But research won't give results unless Allah guides.. But at last realized what Siyam in Quran... So these phases I went through in life coz I wanted truth not satisfied to live in falsehood and falsehood from Quran thinking it is right.. That's just one example of seeking truth in my life.. I don't care what you people choose coz I know Allah has to guide to get convinced in right way... So... All I want say is truth is one from God and cannot be more than one. Truth has no second truth... So if Siyam is what I believe in Quran and convinced now then I can't be guided to truth if anyone else thinks Siyam is what he realized... So it is his view. Views are not truth.. Interpretations are not truth but God's guidance is true..
The one who is not confused or not contradictory in his state of mind and guided aright cannot be same... No one knows I am guided or not But God knows and those who realized they are guided knows me.. Coz Guided people all go in one track... Guided believers cannot have different track.. Impossible ..

Now let me turn to Ibrahim's story... It was a past actual even took place and our Lord worded them in Quran... Unfortunately we all have many a different understanding and opinion... Can we call we all guided while we differ... Definitely not... In fact who speak against the verses of God cannot be guided be he me or any of you...

So. Seek guidance... But how we know we are guided or not... Only guided one knows that amazing feeling.... Approach God with utmost clean pure heart and I am sure guidance will flow....

Anyone 95% of you won't believe what I say... But who cares.. I love that 5% ...anyway.. Can anyone prove he is guided? Why one need to prove he is guided .... That's why I say guidance is an amazing mercy..
Off topic but relevant...
So who cares whatever one say about these verses while truth only what matters...

May Allah guide us... Why we say this if we can achieve it by reading Quran and its grammar.. It's beyond that...

[jkhan]

Compare Verse 37105 with verse 7152...

No reward in both verses.. All what Allah says is that's how / thus we answer / treat ....."

Najszee here is not reward... See my translations as well... Allah treated / answered Ibrahim positively coz he was a good doer in his life...
At the same time in verse 7152 Allah treated / answered negative coz they were evil in their life..

So it further clarifies the story of Ibrahim...
Salam... thank you..