Are meteors really missiles thrown at jinns by angels?
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Salam Novice,
Energy has a limit/form (when a lighting bolt strikes, it has a shape/form that can dissipate).
If we think of Jinn as energy being, and we consider that copper is a conductor for electricity - then it makes sense that they be struck with a material which can disrupt their path/flow.
Why else would the Quran speak specifically of copper and fiery projectors striking down those that try to take flight.
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I would like to share my remarks in the light of the Qur'an about how the universes were created together (in Turkish)
http//emre1974tr.blogspot.com.tr/2016/05/goklerevrenler.html
And this link is explained in the verses I mentioned in my study; The fact that stars are shooting light / flames may now be discovered / displayed
http//www.upi.com/Science_News/2016/10/06/Hubble-sees-star-shooting-cannonballs-into-space/9071475783632/ph2/
The miracles / evidences of the Qur'an are emerging and appear with ever increasing impression.
http//emre1974tr.blogspot.com.tr/2017/02/mucizelerin-devami.html
Al Jinn
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And we pried into the secrets of heaven; but we found it filled with stern guards and flaming fires.
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We used, indeed, to sit there in (hidden) stations, to (steal) a hearing; but any who listen now will find a flaming fire watching him in ambush.
Saffat
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We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,-
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(For beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil
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(So) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side,
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Repulsed, for they are under a perpetual penalty,
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Except such as snatch away something by stealth, and they are pursued by a flaming fire, of piercing brightness.
lower heaven = our universe
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Salam Novice,
Energy has a limit/form (when a lighting bolt strikes, it has a shape/form that can dissipate).
If we think of Jinn as energy being, and we consider that copper is a conductor for electricity - then it makes sense that they be struck with a material which can disrupt their path/flow.
Why else would the Quran speak specifically of copper and fiery projectors striking down those that try to take flight.
Salaam Layth
Thank you for your reply. I assume you are referring to 5533-35 as the word copper نُحَاسٌ۬ is used only once in the Quran
يَـٰمَعۡشَرَ ٱلۡجِنِّ وَٱلۡإِنسِ إِنِ ٱسۡتَطَعۡتُمۡ أَن تَنفُذُواْ مِنۡ أَقۡطَارِ ٱلسَّمَـٰوَٲتِ وَٱلۡأَرۡضِ فَٱنفُذُواْۚ لَا تَنفُذُونَ إِلَّا بِسُلۡطَـٰنٍ۬ (٣٣) فَبِأَىِّ ءَالَآءِ رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ (٣٤) يُرۡسَلُ عَلَيۡكُمَا شُوَاظٌ۬ مِّن نَّارٍ۬ وَنُحَاسٌ۬ فَلَا تَنتَصِرَانِ
We see here address is to both Ins and Jinn. So what is the rational of striking Ins (human) with copper in your understanding?
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Salaam Layth
Thank you for your reply. I assume you are referring to 5533-35 as the word copper نُحَاسٌ۬ is used only once in the Quran
يَـٰمَعۡشَرَ ٱلۡجِنِّ وَٱلۡإِنسِ إِنِ ٱسۡتَطَعۡتُمۡ أَن تَنفُذُواْ مِنۡ أَقۡطَارِ ٱلسَّمَـٰوَٲتِ وَٱلۡأَرۡضِ فَٱنفُذُواْۚ لَا تَنفُذُونَ إِلَّا بِسُلۡطَـٰنٍ۬ (٣٣) فَبِأَىِّ ءَالَآءِ رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ (٣٤) يُرۡسَلُ عَلَيۡكُمَا شُوَاظٌ۬ مِّن نَّارٍ۬ وَنُحَاسٌ۬ فَلَا تَنتَصِرَانِ
We see here address is to both Ins and Jinn. So what is the rational of striking Ins (human) with copper in your understanding?
There is no mention of striking.
يُرْسَلُ عَلَيْكُـمَا شُوَاظٚ مِّن نَّارٛ وَنُحَاسٚ
Heat emanating from ignited fire and evaporated smoke of the molten brass will be sent upon you both species—
فَلَا تَنتَصِرَانِ .5535٣٥
Thereat, you both will not be able to protect yourselves.
فَبِأَىِّ ءَالَآءِ رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ.5536٣٦
Therefore, which of the arrangement/mode/preparedness for punishing the criminals by your Sustainer Lord, you both will contradict?
نُحَاسٚ is the Proxy subject of Passive verb يُرْسَلُ .
Root ن ح س
فَأَرْسَلْنَا عَلَيْـهِـمْ رِيحٙا صَرْصَرٙا فِـىٓ أَيَّامٛ نَّحِسَاتٛ
Thereby, on their asking, Our Majesty sent upon them creaking furious Wind in troubling hot days —
لِّنُذِيقَهُـمْ عَذَابَ ٱلْخِزْىِ فِـى ٱلْحَـيَوٰةِ ٱلدُّنْيَاۖ
The object was that Our Majesty cause them taste corporal infliction with feel of belittlement and remorse in the worldly life .
وَلَعَذَابُ ٱلۡءَاخِـرَةِ أَخْزَىٰۖ
And it is a certain fact that the Corporal punishment in the Hereafter is much more of belittlement and remorse.
وَهُـمْ لَا يُنصَرُونَ .4116١٦
And they all will not be helped by anyone who could help.
إِنَّـآ أَرْسَلْنَا عَلَيْـهِـمْ رِيحٙا صَرْصَرٙا فِـى يَوْمِ نَحْسٛ مُّسْتَمِرّٛ .5419١٩
It is a fact that Our Majesty sent upon them (People of Aad) furiously creaking wind in a troubling hot day, self stretching persistently —
تَنزِعُ ٱلنَّاسَ كَأَنَّـهُـمْ أَعْجَازُ نَخْلٛ مُّنقَعِـرٛ .5420٢٠
She was plucking and displacing people as if they (People of Aad) were stems of palm-trees plucked and displaced from root depth.
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378 They cannot listen to the command up high; and they are bombarded from every side.
3710 Any of them who snatches a part, he is pursued by a piercing flame.
QUESTIONS
1 from WHO they are trying to listen or trying to snatch ?
2 what they are trying to listen and snatch?
3 why dnt a powerful creator can create anti-virus or defence system or make a system through which they cant able to hear or snatch something ?4 what is the purpose of telling human being what he cannot possibly verify or understand, it seems human authors are still struggling making a interpretation ?
5 science is telling a different story about comets and meteors ?
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Imran brother, relax ,it is not worth getting worked up about the interpretations of humans.
Most of your questions are arising from the faulty interpretations.The context of what Qoran is saying is this
Of humans and Jinns, you are confined to this universe . You cannot penetrate to the second universe even if you acquire the technology to travel in your universe. And even in your universe there are exploding stars bigger than 1000 s of atomic bombs and places you can never reach like hot stars and blackholes...etc..GOD is saying there are 7 universes one above the other. Our universe is the most inner and smaller of these.
How vast do we see ours in comparison?
We need to take stock of our insignificance and glorify the creator? Whoever chooses and wants to that is!
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Most of your questions are arising from the faulty interpretations.
thats the interpretation of (monotheist group/free-minds) what i used if you think this interpretation is faulty u can share " yours " about the verses then we see the questions i asked change their shape or not handshake
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Salam
The rebellious technologically advanced people when they will try to pry into space, they will have a piercing flame of fire following them (the rocket with jet fuel burning and trailing blazing flame of fire) and will be facing bombardment of radioactive particles and other dangers of space travel. A very few of these people will be able to venture into space after taking protections from the risks of space travel. The below link explores Ayahs related to this topic.https//topicsfromquran.com/2018/06/23/shooting-stars-or-bright-flames-of-fire/
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Salam Novice,
We see here address is to both Ins and Jinn. So what is the rational of striking Ins (human) with copper in your understanding?
You are correct, the verse does speak to both Jinn and Humans. I can't conclude why they are both lumped together and whether the copper is meant for one and the fire for the other...The only observation to be made is that "copper" is a great conductor of energy and this is the only time we see it mentioned (all other verses deal with metal in a general form).
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Most of your questions are arising from the faulty interpretations.
Have you ever consider an option where maybe it's the writings itself that are faulty?
The context of what Qoran is saying is this
Of humans and Jinns, you are confined to this universe . You cannot penetrate to the second universe even if you acquire the technology to travel in your universe. And even in your universe there are exploding stars bigger than 1000 s of atomic bombs and places you can never reach like hot stars and blackholes...etc..Clearly the above is not the content of the writings, but an interpretation of 21st century human who has exposed to the conception of "universe", "death and lifecycle of stars" and "blackholes" and starting to probe on the possibility on the existence of 'other universes'.
GOD is saying there are 7 universes one above the other. Our universe is the most inner and smaller of these.
You are assuming that God said there are 7 universes..
Reality might paint different storyFirst the believe on the existence of 7 layer of heavens (not universes) were the common belief of human from 3000 BCE up to 20th century, originated in middle east and then spread worldwide through migration.
21st century human think that there is a possibility on the existence of other universes and if other universes exist it might not be confined to the quantity of 7, it actually be other unlimited universes. Each with it's own context of time and space and the rules might be slightly different compared to other universes.
The comparison of 'small' or 'inner' might not be relevant when comparing those universes, as each of those universes has their own context of time and space.
How vast do we see ours in comparison?
We need to take stock of our insignificance and glorify the creator? Whoever chooses and wants to that is!
GOD bless you.We cannot compare our universe with other universes yet..
What we can compare is our earth to this universe and yes it's insignificant.There are Zillions of other planets and potentially there are billions of other earth like planets in this universe, a planet which could host a carbon based life form just like us. Thus there might be billions of carbon based lifeform similar yet different than us in this universe.
And glorifying the creator of this universe doesn't mean glorifying, idolizing and putting a blind faith in a book that was written by human many centuries ago.
We do know now that if the "Designer" / "Creator" exist, it must have existed in all time and space of this universe and also in all time and space of zillions of other universes and beyond. We do know now that it doesn't make sense that the Creator could faced a 'rebellion' or be 'pissed off'/'angry' or 'declaring war' or have any 'enemy'. The confinement of time and space of this universe will not be applicable to the 'Designer' or 'Creator'.
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378 They cannot listen to the command up high; and they are bombarded from every side.
3710 Any of them who snatches a part, he is pursued by a piercing flame.
QUESTIONS
1 from WHO they are trying to listen or trying to snatch ?
2 what they are trying to listen and snatch?Ancient middle eastern people believe that the Angels / Gods were commonly gossiping about humans and future events among themselves on their abode high up in heaven. This is what they believed the "devil" is trying to snatch.
3 why dnt a powerful creator can create anti-virus or defence system or make a system through which they cant able to hear or snatch something ?
LOL if the true Creator of the universes really doesn't allow something then such something is 100% guaranteed will not happened. The actual mechanism varies..
4 what is the purpose of telling human being what he cannot possibly verify or understand, it seems human authors are still struggling making a interpretation ?
Bingo.. the author(s) are definitely confused..
5 science is telling a different story about comets and meteors ?
Science is a methodology thus it cannot tell a story.
By applying scientific methodology, which is basically learning from mistakes / false hypothesis to find relatively better explanation / hypothesis, human can prove that the ancient hypothesis of comets and meteors as a projectile thrown by angels / gods to the eavesdropping devils / demons / jinns is false.
And came up with a better hypothesis which lead to the differentiation between comets and meteors itself.
Comets are basically a remnant objects which pass through and influenced by the gravitational field of the sun. Comets are frozen gases, rock and dust that's is being heated up as it approached the sun thus emitting light that can be observed from earth.
While meteors are falling objects which captured by gravitational field of this earth. It heated up as it enters the earth's atmosphere thus emitting light that can be observed by human on this earth. Not all meteors will be totally burned by the atmosphere some of it will still have a significant size as it collided with the rocky surface of earth thus causing a huge explosion and creating a 'meteor crater' on the surface of this earth.
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Peace Jafar.
You say quote{Have you ever consider an option where maybe it's the writings itself that are faulty?
I say ; Yes and I have eliminated this option after my study of Qoran.
Shall we compare our study of this book?The rest of your post is assuming what you think I am assuming.
I am interpreting my take on Qoran according to my study of the book.
There are many verses that apply to the future in the book; likeSay wait for the interpretations in the future, I am also waiting.
Also; quote from the book Yawma Natwi Al Smaa Katayi Al Sujuli Lil AlKutub, Kama Badana Awwala Khakin Nuhiduhu…"
يَومَ نَطوِى السَّماءَ كَطَىِّ السِّجِلِّ لِلكُتُبِ كَما بَدَأنا أَوَّلَ خَلقٍ نُعيدُهُ وَعدًا عَلَينا إِنّا كُنّا فٰعِلينَOr did this happen in the 7th century?
I say this is waiting for a future generation to interpret it. We are not there yet?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Salam Novice,
You are correct, the verse does speak to both Jinn and Humans. I can't conclude why they are both lumped together and whether the copper is meant for one and the fire for the other...The only observation to be made is that "copper" is a great conductor of energy and this is the only time we see it mentioned (all other verses deal with metal in a general form).
Salam Layth
May be the root ن ح س nūn ḥā sīn can give us some understanding. I am sorry but copper theory does not appeal to me as this root is used at two more places and does not convey the meanings of copper therein.
4116 فَأَرۡسَلۡنَا عَلَيۡہِمۡ رِيحً۬ا صَرۡصَرً۬ا فِىٓ أَيَّامٍ۬ نَّحِسَاتٍ۬ لِّنُذِيقَهُمۡ عَذَابَ ٱلۡخِزۡىِ فِى ٱلۡحَيَوٰةِ ٱلدُّنۡيَاۖ وَلَعَذَابُ ٱلۡأَخِرَةِ أَخۡزَىٰۖ وَهُمۡ لَا يُنصَرُونَ
5419 إِنَّآ أَرۡسَلۡنَا عَلَيۡہِمۡ رِيحً۬ا صَرۡصَرً۬ا فِى يَوۡمِ نَحۡسٍ۬ مُّسۡتَمِرٍّ۬
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Peace!
The problem of the modern world is that the majority of people are still depending on authorities and their statements because they think that they have valuable and infallible knowledge. Of course its the individuals choice whom it takes as its authority - today the majority (as well as i used to) are taking modern scientists as their authority or at least as someone who can provide intellectual answers. Some of their answers are considered to be intellectual and experimentally provable when others are simply philosophical concepts fortified by mathematical equations which doesn't necessarily need to represent the objective truth of reality.
When we look into the Qur'an and other scriptures we see that the astrological observations were extremely important in the ancient world. God mentions the Sabaeans with the Nazarenes and the Jews - the Sabaeans were Astronomers/Astrologers in the ancient world. Their interpretations of the heavens are still preserved in some occult writings. Today people don't look into the heavens because of the mass distraction of the screens. Nowadays they are everywhere, especially if you are living in a metropolis. So the "reality" of the heavens are presented to us by some institutions like NASA. When you take todays philosophical concept of the heavens and the universe as a whole - you will have a lot of problems understanding the Qur'an and such statements it makes.
Call me stupid if you want, i don't really care. Just keep in mind that those you call stupid today were also called heretics in the holy roman empire during the middle ages. Its paradox to call oneself free minded when you are still attached to dogmas in todays number one religion called atheistic scientism.
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In my humble understanding these ayats are telling that after God's revelation, conjectures or superstitions have no room in a believer's life. Fortune tellers and star readers are just guessing and have no knowledge of future.
Yeah Novice I agree, I think the verses of "fire" and "Missiles"
etc., are metaphors because no one goes out in space and
listens to anything! Maybe I'm wrong.peace
