THE YOUNG PEOPLE OF THE CAVE WERE 3, 5, or 7 ? (18:22)

Mazhar

So to summary we have at least 3 hypotheses

Name of a place, a location (as Mazhar suggests)
=> Petra
https//www.visitpetra.jo/DetailsPage/VisitPetra/LocationsInPetraDetailsEn.aspx?PID=4
=> Or, a locality near Amman (legend of 3 men and 1 dog)
https//www.persee.fr/doc/crai_0065-0536_1899_num_43_5_71468 (in french sorry)
"Inscription"
the tablet of lead or stone where were written (raqam) the names of dormant
As suggested by the other 2 Koranic verses that refer to an engraved compilation, written with the idea of readability and unambiguous detail (diacritics)
http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=rqm#(1896)

Thus We revealed them to them, that they might know that the promise of God is truth, and there is no doubt about the Hour ... => evidence of the resurection

"Enumeration/counting" => see previous interventions.
Good translation for this comprehension from "https//submission.org/QI#18"
Why else do you think we are telling you about the people of the cave, and the numbers connected with them? They are among our wondrous signs.

Hypothesis 2 is also very interesting because it is close to the meaning of the root and by Quranic use.

It is mere wandering in vacuum. You are time and again placing aside fundamentals of language; the Possessive Phrase.

ibn_a

Salaam,

Peace Mazhar,
Thanks for the explanation, I didn't know that the original name of Petra was "Reqem or Raqmu".

أَمْ حَسِبْتَ أَنَّ أَصْحَـٟـبَ ٱلْـكَهْفِ وَٱلرَّقِيـمِ كَانُوا۟۟ مِنْ ءَايَٟتِنَا عَجَبٙا .1809٩

Or have you deemed the companions of the Cave and residents of Raqeem as if they were a wonder in the displaying signs of Our Majesty —

http//haqeeqat.pk/Quran.Corpus-5Part9Sura15-18.htm

In the translation on your website there is no explanation for Al raqim nor a reference to Petra.

Mazhar

Salaam,

Peace Mazhar,
Thanks for the explanation, I didn't know that the original name of Petra was "Reqem or Raqmu".

In the translation on your website there is no explanation for Al raqim nor a reference to Petra.

I have just translated. When I explain it by syntax, sentence structures there I will mention it.

Information about their residential place/city is also given. Their city dwellers - rulers had gone polytheists.

هَٟٓـؤُلَآءِ قَوْمُنَا ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ مِن دُونِهِۦٓ ءَالِـهَةٙۖ

Look at these people, our nation; they have purposely adopted others besides Him the Exalted as various iela'aha godheads —

لَّوْلَا يَأْتُونَ عَلَيْـهِـم بِسُلْطَٟنِۭ بَيِّـنٛۖ

Why not they come forth about the stance upon them with a distinct authoritative argument-evidence?

فَمَنْ أَظْلَمُ مِمَّنِ ٱفْتَـرَىٰ عَلَـى ٱللَّهِ كَذِبٙا .1815١٥

Thereby, who could be a greater evil monger-a distorter-creator of imbalances, disorder-over stepping than him who artfully conjectured a falsehood attributing it to Allah the Exalted —

وَإِذِ ٱعْتَزَلْتُـمُوهُـمْ وَمَا يَعْبُدُونَ إِلَّا ٱللَّهَ فَأْوُواۥٓ إِلَـى ٱلْـكَهْفِ

And when you people separate from them and what they worship, except Allah the Exalted, then proceed for protective refuge towards the particular cave —

يَنْشُـرْ لَـكُـمْ رَبُّكُـم مِّن رَّحْـمَتِهِۦ وَيُـهَيِّئْ لَـكُـم مِّنْ أَمْرِكُم مِّرْفَقٙا .1816١٦

Your Sustainer Lord will expand for you from His Mercy, and will facilitate for you in your matter making it convenient."

The destined cave they already knew as most suitable place for hiding. Certain location clue are also mentioned with reference to movement of Sun and affect on cave.

This also confirms earlier informative statement about the name of their parental city.

ibn_a

Salaam,

Peace Mazhar,

I can understand your argument for relating Al raqim الرقيم to Petra, because of the resemblance of its original name "Reqem or Raqmu".
Do you consider also other possible meanings for Al raqim الرقيم ?

قُل رَّبِّـى أَعْلَمُ بِعِدَّتِـهِـم

You the Messenger pronounce, "My Sustainer Lord knows most certainly the exact number of them".

In the next sentence the information and advice is for the Messenger

مَّا يَعْلَمُهُـمْ إِلَّا قَلِيلٚۗ

Since except a small segment, people do not know them —
فَلَا تُمَارِ فِيـهِـمْ إِلَّا مِرَآءٙ ظَٟهِرٙا وَلَا تَسْتَفْتِ فِيـهِـم مِّنْـهُـمْ أَحَدٙا .1822٢٢
Therefore, you should not enter into controversy about them except the evidently visible point and nor you should enquire about them from any one of them.

This information advice does not refer about بِعِدَّتِـهِـم.

... مَّا يَعْلَمُهُمْ إِلَّا قَلِيلٌ ...

Shouldn't it be like that

1822 ...Only a few know about them...

https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/18/22/

والله اعلم
Allah knows best.

Iyyaka

By combining "hypothesis" 2 and 3

Why else do you think we are telling you about the people of the cave, and the inscription that enumerate them? They are among our wondrous signs.

Confirm by the textual context as early said.

Mazhar

By combining "hypothesis" 2 and 3

Why else do you think we are telling you about the people of the cave, and the inscription that enumerate them? They are among our wondrous signs.

Confirm by the textual context as early said.

The bold is a separate dependent sentence while there is no such thing in SLT. Case endings/Irab is the heart of Arabic grammar. It is Ashab-arRaqeemi.

ibn_a

Salaam,

Peace Mazhar,

Why did you go against all translators?
https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/18/22/default.htm

http//haqeeqat.pk/Quran.Corpus-5Part9Sura15-18.htm
https//i.imgur.com/Lhkk7jo.png

ibn_a

Salaam,

Thanks.

It helped me immediately detect omission in my parsing into sentences. They are two separate sentences. Second not about number.

سَيَقُولُونَ ثَلٟثَةٚ رَّابِعُهُـمْ كَلْبُـهُـمْ

People will keep saying that they were three in number and fourth companion of them was their dog —

وَيَقُولُونَ خَـمْسَةٚ سَادِسُهُـمْ كَلْبُـهُـمْ رَجْـمَاۢبِٱلْغَيْبِۖ

And others will say that they were five in number and sixth companion of them was their dog, hurling imaginary thoughts —

وَيَقُولُونَ سَبْعَةٚ وَثَامِنُـهُـمْ كَلْبُـهُـمْۚ

And yet others will say that they were seven in number and eighth companion was their dog.

قُل رَّبِّـى أَعْلَمُ بِعِدَّتِـهِـم

You the Messenger pronounce, "My Sustainer Lord knows most certainly the exact number of them".

مَّا يَعْلَمُهُـمْ إِلَّا قَلِيلٚۗ

Since except a small segment, people do not know them —
فَلَا تُمَارِ فِيـهِـمْ إِلَّا مِرَآءٙ ظَٟهِرٙا وَلَا تَسْتَفْتِ فِيـهِـم مِّنْـهُـمْ أَحَدٙا .1822٢٢

Therefore, you should not enter into controversy about them except the evidently visible point and nor you should enquire about them from any one of them.

Peace Mazhar,

Agree that ما يعلمهم الا قليل does not refer to بعدتهم , but to them,
otherwise I think it would say يعلمها

but why do you conclude that ما يعلمهم الا قليل means

"Since except a small segment, people do not know them".

Could you explain what other translators missed ?

https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/18/22/

والله اعلم
Allah knows best.

Mazhar

Salaam,

Peace Mazhar,

Agree that ما يعلمهم الا قليل does not refer to بعدتهم , but to them,
otherwise I think it would say يعلمها

but why do you conclude that ما يعلمهم الا قليل means

"Since except a small segment, people do not know them".

Could you explain what other translators missed ?

https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/18/22/

والله اعلم
Allah knows best.

Because of the sentence structure negation and then exception. Ma and La structure. Verb is in Indicative Mood; covering present and future timeline. Subject of a verb needs to be specified. Qaleel is just quantification noun.

ibn_a

Salaam,

Because of the sentence structure negation and then exception. Ma and La structure. Verb is in Indicative Mood; covering present and future timeline. Subject of a verb needs to be specified. Qaleel is just quantification noun.

Peace Mazhar,

Thanks for taking time to answer,
I am familiar with basic Arabic, less with grammar rules.

Do the grammar rules also allow for
ما يعلمهم الا قليل to mean "Not knows them except few",

like others have translated, or are they wrong, and of course both statements cannot be true.

https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/18/22/default.htm

والله اعلم
Allah knows best.

Iyyaka

Thanks.

It helped me immediately detect omission in my parsing into sentences. They are two separate sentences. Second not about number.

سَيَقُولُونَ ثَلٟثَةٚ رَّابِعُهُـمْ كَلْبُـهُـمْ

People will keep saying that they were three in number and fourth companion of them was their dog —

وَيَقُولُونَ خَـمْسَةٚ سَادِسُهُـمْ كَلْبُـهُـمْ رَجْـمَاۢبِٱلْغَيْبِۖ

And others will say that they were five in number and sixth companion of them was their dog, hurling imaginary thoughts —

وَيَقُولُونَ سَبْعَةٚ وَثَامِنُـهُـمْ كَلْبُـهُـمْۚ

And yet others will say that they were seven in number and eighth companion was their dog.

قُل رَّبِّـى أَعْلَمُ بِعِدَّتِـهِـم

You the Messenger pronounce, "My Sustainer Lord knows most certainly the exact number of them".

مَّا يَعْلَمُهُـمْ إِلَّا قَلِيلٚۗ

Since except a small segment, people do not know them —
فَلَا تُمَارِ فِيـهِـمْ إِلَّا مِرَآءٙ ظَٟهِرٙا وَلَا تَسْتَفْتِ فِيـهِـم مِّنْـهُـمْ أَحَدٙا .1822٢٢

Therefore, you should not enter into controversy about them except the evidently visible point and nor you should enquire about them from any one of them.

Yes you're right. I was wrong too. 2 differents sentences.

Iyyaka

Yes you're right. I was wrong too. 2 differents sentences.

clarification Yes 2 sentences but the second one includes the problem of the first sentence.

Other verses with classical translation
Quran, 1825
وَلَبِثُوا فِي كَهْفِهِمْ ثَلَاثَ مِائَةٍ سِنِينَ وَازْدَادُوا تِسْعًا
And they remained in their cave (for) three hundred years and add nine.
Quran, 1826
قُلِ اللَّهُ أَعْلَمُ بِمَا لَبِثُوا
Say, "Allah knows best about what they remained.

Question / reflection What is the reference of these 3 subject pronouns to the end of these verbs?