Is this possible

[good_logic]

Peace Sarah.
Have you taken the matter to court?
I see your case now you specified. as a criminal matter that needs to be reported

GOD bless you.
Peace..

[Sarah]

Peace Sarah.
Have you taken the matter to court?
I see your case now you specified. as a criminal matter that needs to be reported

GOD bless you.
Peace..

I left it again and again because I have so many other problems in my life. I did talk to this organisation called ACAS. months ago.

But even though I hold views on standing up to oppressors. I am scared of them. I'm in a bad financial situation. They have my address and everything. If I were to win against them in court I do not know what they will do to me next.

[Jafar]

With the example I mentioned, these people are pure evil. They have no heart. I would equate this to modern day oppression. God Himself says oppression is worse than murder. I would want to see justice on the day of judgment because I have no justice in this life.

Anything that one do to others he/she actually do it to him/herself.

Also, I do not buy into the Christian philosophy of 'love thy enemy'. The Qur'an does NOT teach us this. That's how people become doormats. That's enabling the oppressor to carry on and not just to oppress you but to also oppress anybody else that they can. That's not the right situation to be kind in. An example of an oppressor is Hitler. If you had the strength to fight Hitler, wouldn't you? Or would you be kind to him even though he will kill you probably the next day?

You can fight oppressor without Hate, the better way is to fight oppressor with love.
"Loving others" is not the reason why people become doormats.
"Hating others" is the reason why people treat others as doormats.

For example with Adolf Hitler case, one can fight the Nazis and it's Narcissistic Ideology not because hating them but due to the love to the people that they oppressed and also due to the love to those who are blinded by supporting the Nazis and also due to the love towards Adolf Hitler as well.

If you fought the Nazis with hate, you will be driven for revenge, and you will then treat the Nazis as doormats when you got the upper hand. A good case study of this is when the Russians finally made an offensive towards Germany, the Russian troops extracted revenge by torturing and raping thousands of Germans women. The Russian troops has then turned to become as bad as The Nazis troops. Their justification of doing as such is "Because the german troops has also raped many Russian women".

And as the events turned out we also now know that Stalin is actually very similar to Adolf Hitler.

When you fought people who hated you with hate, you have turned yourselves to become the exact people that you hate.
When you bullied a bully, you have become a bully yourselves.
Congratulations bravo

[jkhan]

Peace

Is it possible on the day of judgement to be able to discuss situations with people who wronged me in life and to tell those people how their actions hurt me and affected my life? Like how people who are in court get to discuss it with the person they're suing? I've had so many situations where people stepped all over me, used me and abused me.

I understand God's judgment is just etc. and everyone will get what they deserve. But I also seem to have this psychological need to tell the person how what they did was destructive.

I'm not saying I'm perfect myself but I know I have been wronged many, many times.

Peace Sister Sara..

You have brought many a topic in this forum.. In my view this one very genuine and very personal and a common to others as well...
Be brave... Be calm.. Be hopeful... There is always oppressors and oppressed in this world... Not for everyone justice will reach even every community has a court... That's why God does not judge Eveything in this world but every minute to massive matter hereafter.. He will not leave anything...

It seems no one's reply soothed you.. I understand you.. The one who is injured only knows the pain.. Philosophy of alleged Jesus saying it Buddha's teaching of showing mercy to enemy will never work in real life...
Definitely you can't love the one who oppressed you or rather keep on oppressing you.. You may love one who oppressed and not any more oppressor but changed himself to good one.. Such deserve love.. The one who change to ethics even after being an oppressor is same like a good person.. His past is in God's hand.. But who continues to oppress doesn't deserve any mercy other than fight against him if you have capacity unless he stops his oppression ... If no capacity then being oppressed is unfortunate destiny.. That's so common in this world.. White oppress black can be one example..

But, your core point in your topic thread is whether you will be able communicate to those who oppressed you on the day of judgement...like you can teach them a lesson... Lol.. Hoping you are destined in Janna... I guess that's what you meant..
In case you and those who oppressed both in Jahanna you will have a chance to communicate with them.. Even such people are in huge frustration and wanting to stamp them and wishes to give them double punishment... God has decreed Jahanna according to each individual's act in this life.. So your wish will be accomplished for sure..

But as I said earlier if you are destined to Janna ( that I pray for) then your heart will be cleaned and purified from all evil thoughts by God... You won't worry about anyone who is in Jahanna... You don't even give a glass of water to them from the abundance of Janna be it your own loved ones then no need to talk about who oppressed you...

So you don't need to communicate hereafter with those who oppressed you in this world ... You will not be you in Janna.. You only hear peace you only see a great kingdom you only live in indulgence.. You don't have time to revenge of your past life... But you have memories... But you are purified to indulge in the abundance of Janna...

But now you are living the life of test.. It's fair you feel so...
It's not harm revenging when you are harmed OR oppressed while you are innocent... That's so natural to human.. Like we pee when we feel.. Lol..
But we can't be aggressive beyond what they did to us.. Simply Tit for tat.. Eye for eye..
You can forgive a past which happened in your life which affected you to certain extent but if you are out of it now if you wish.. But oppression and living in oppression cannot be tolerated without seeking way out for it at any cost..
Why God say don't kill an innocent unless for just reason.. In everything there is a just reason.. If your reason is just what is not allowed normally becomes allowed.. That's so manifest ...

So dear try your level best to get out of this shackle if you can't tackle this all alone... Keep hope and move forward.. I know easier said than done... But life is like that not same for everyone...
The one losing hope in hard time is weak in heart...

So finally your question.. " is this possible? " No if you are in Janna while they in Jahanna..
Yes.. If both party in Jahanna... Coz both live together ...

[jkhan]

Peace Sister Sara..

You have brought many a topic in this forum.. In my view this one very genuine and very personal and a common to others as well...
Be brave... Be calm.. Be hopeful... There is always oppressors and oppressed in this world... Not for everyone justice will reach even every community has a court... That's why God does not judge Eveything in this world but every minute to massive matter hereafter.. He will not leave anything...

It seems no one's reply soothed you.. I understand you.. The one who is injured only knows the pain.. Philosophy of alleged Jesus saying it Buddha's teaching of showing mercy to enemy will never work in real life...
Definitely you can't love the one who oppressed you or rather keep on oppressing you.. You may love one who oppressed and not any more oppressor but changed himself to good one.. Such deserve love.. The one who change to ethics even after being an oppressor is same like a good person.. His past is in God's hand.. But who continues to oppress doesn't deserve any mercy other than fight against him if you have capacity unless he stops his oppression ... If no capacity then being oppressed is unfortunate destiny.. That's so common in this world.. White oppress black can be one example..

But, your core point in your topic thread is whether you will be able communicate to those who oppressed you on the day of judgement...like you can teach them a lesson... Lol.. Hoping you are destined in Janna... I guess that's what you meant..
In case you and those who oppressed both in Jahanna you will have a chance to communicate with them.. Even such people are in huge frustration and wanting to stamp them and wishes to give them double punishment... God has decreed Jahanna according to each individual's act in this life.. So your wish will be accomplished for sure..

But as I said earlier if you are destined to Janna ( that I pray for) then your heart will be cleaned and purified from all evil thoughts by God... You won't worry about anyone who is in Jahanna... You don't even give a glass of water to them from the abundance of Janna be it your own loved ones then no need to talk about who oppressed you...

So you don't need to communicate hereafter with those who oppressed you in this world ... You will not be you in Janna.. You only hear peace you only see a great kingdom you only live in indulgence.. You don't have time to revenge of your past life... But you have memories... But you are purified to indulge in the abundance of Janna...

But now you are living the life of test.. It's fair you feel so...
It's not harm revenging when you are harmed OR oppressed while you are innocent... That's so natural to human.. Like we pee when we feel.. Lol..
But we can't be aggressive beyond what they did to us.. Simply Tit for tat.. Eye for eye..
You can forgive a past which happened in your life which affected you to certain extent but if you are out of it now if you wish.. But oppression and living in oppression cannot be tolerated without seeking way out for it at any cost..
Why God say don't kill an innocent unless for just reason.. In everything there is a just reason.. If your reason is just what is not allowed normally becomes allowed.. That's so manifest ...

So dear try your level best to get out of this shackle if you can't tackle this all alone... Keep hope and move forward.. I know easier said than done... But life is like that not same for everyone...
The one losing hope in hard time is weak in heart...

So finally your question.. " is this possible? " No if you are in Janna while they in Jahanna..
Yes.. If both party in Jahanna... Coz both live together ...

Or in case if your concern was whether you will be able to communicate while the judgement is taking place before Janna and Jahanna is assigned...

Even at that stage I don't think so you will be able to communicate... That's what I comprehended within Quran..
Coz it the time of judgment people only worry about themselves and not about anyone else... Every individual has a his / her own record withouy leaving anything out of it..
Meanwhile God has promised He questions every individual not as the system of court... It is God's job and we are not there to interrogate others.. We have no authority on that day.. All authority is God's...
What God judges is final.. And He is fair... Anyone such interrogation is only required if we doubt the one who judge.. Isn't it?

So in any way you won't have opportunity to interrogate anyone at the time of judgement... We are only waiting judgement and not we do that part... Even you happen to ask or interrogate them.. They will be same... They won't accept what you claim.. They will only try to defend them.. To the extent even whole earth is Gold they are ready to ransom.. So your integration is nothing even you try..
Why you want to interrogate them about the past while you don't have any power over them on that day ..?

But final judgment is shear justice... Be satisfied with it...

[good_logic]

Peace Sarah.
Some countries like the UK have a good justice system agaibst things like in your case. Do not let it go, they are the ones who should be frightened not you , quote

"But even though I hold views on standing up to oppressors. I am scared of them. I'm in a bad financial situation. They have my address and everything. If I were to win against them in court I do not know what they will do to me next.".
However if you are seeking GOD s justice, the verses you mentioned are talking about justice in this life" stand up for your right".by taking them to court to get your hard earned money that they have stolen from you.
. GOD s justice will follow regardless.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Cerberus]

My advice would be to focus on a noble goal in your life, if you have any. These things you're talking about are not hindering you from, say, becoming better, or becoming closer to god. But it is the opposite, these are all opportunities to achieve those goals.
Try not to focus on hardship from the perspective of someone who is being harmed, but instead try to look at it from the perspective of someone being challenged, and through such events you can change for the better, or change for the worst (even in a very small proportion).

Sometimes the subjects of our complaints make no sense. A liar for lying ? An ignorant person for an ignorant deed ? .... Everything is in order and instead what we can do is try to understand them and learn to deal with them. All these are part of life's challenges. We either reform ourselves to succeed in these challenges as we meet them, OR, we fail to reform ourselves and fail the challenges, get stuck, complain, suffer, look for easy way out....etc.

[reel]

My advice would be to focus on a noble goal in your life, if you have any. These things you're talking about are not hindering you from, say, becoming better, or becoming closer to god. But it is the opposite, these are all opportunities to achieve those goals.
Try not to focus on hardship from the perspective of someone who is being harmed, but instead try to look at it from the perspective of someone being challenged, and through such events you can change for the better, or change for the worst (even in a very small proportion).

Sometimes the subjects of our complaints make no sense. A liar for lying ? An ignorant person for an ignorant deed ? .... Everything is in order and instead what we can do is try to understand them and learn to deal with them. All these are part of life's challenges. We either reform ourselves to succeed in these challenges as we meet them, OR, we fail to reform ourselves and fail the challenges, get stuck, complain, suffer, look for easy way out....etc.

I feel for her. The problem is that she was picked to be scapegoat because the narc sensed her to be a good human being with a mind of her own. She was probably gaslighted into believing that she was horrible and anything she does is always wrong. I pray that she ends up in a happy relationship/marriage with an understanding man since her road is gonna be tough ahead. Can't even recommend her therapist. The damage is just not easy to fix.

[good_logic]

However sister Sarah, if you need our help (Remember it is GOD who helps really),please do not hesitate to say.
Either here or by PM.
If there is anything I can do to help you get on your feet and I can, I will GOD willing.
GOD bless you .
Peace.

[Cerberus]

I feel for her. The problem is that she was picked to be scapegoat because the narc sensed her to be a good human being with a mind of her own. She was probably gaslighted into believing that she was horrible and anything she does is always wrong. I pray that she ends up in a happy relationship/marriage with an understanding man since her road is gonna be tough ahead. Can't even recommend her therapist. The damage is just not easy to fix.

Life is way too short to be thinking like this, to be living like a perpetual victim, or to be held back by other people's wrong doings... Also if you believed that you've been damaged tha's when you truly become damaged.

Look at the animal world for instance, being preyed upon, having to constantly run for your life, being in a life and death situation most of the time, having to rely on your senses to survive etc....and yet for every occurence the animal becomes stronger and more prepared, they may end up with scars, but that does not hold them back. The strongest animals, the survivors, have the most scars too. These are animals...

But to get to the point, there is a saying from the buddha that is very pertinent here, it goes like this "Whatever harm an enemy may do to an enemy, or a hater to a hater, an ill-directed mind inflicts on oneself greater harm" or this stoic saying can be useful too "That things have no hold on the soul. They stand there unmoving, outside it. Disturbance comes only from within, from our own perceptions"

Also, if one were to remember that death is around the corner, they wouldn't allow themselves to be held back by other people's actions...

[Sarah]

However sister Sarah, if you need our help (Remember it is GOD who helps really),please do not hesitate to say.
Either here or by PM.
If there is anything I can do to help you get on your feet and I can, I will GOD willing.
GOD bless you .
Peace.

Thank you Good Logic for the kindness. )

God bless you too

[Sarah]

I feel for her. The problem is that she was picked to be scapegoat because the narc sensed her to be a good human being with a mind of her own. She was probably gaslighted into believing that she was horrible and anything she does is always wrong. I pray that she ends up in a happy relationship/marriage with an understanding man since her road is gonna be tough ahead. Can't even recommend her therapist. The damage is just not easy to fix.

Thanks for having some empathy sister I appreciate it.

But although they managed to use me by getting me to work for them without pay, I never believed that I was horrible or bad for wanting to get paid because that's basically the reason for why I worked. One of the ladies in the office tried to make me feel guilty by staring at me in a certain way but it never got to me. It was just way too obvious they're the ones in the wrong. I think I have been gaslighted before in my life by other people but not this time.

[Sarah]

Life is way too short to be thinking like this, to be living like a perpetual victim, or to be held back by other people's wrong doings... Also if you believed that you've been damaged tha's when you truly become damaged.

Look at the animal world for instance, being preyed upon, having to constantly run for your life, being in a life and death situation most of the time, having to rely on your senses to survive etc....and yet for every occurence the animal becomes stronger and more prepared, they may end up with scars, but that does not hold them back. The strongest animals, the survivors, have the most scars too. These are animals...

But to get to the point, there is a saying from the buddha that is very pertinent here, it goes like this "Whatever harm an enemy may do to an enemy, or a hater to a hater, an ill-directed mind inflicts on oneself greater harm" or this stoic saying can be useful too "That things have no hold on the soul. They stand there unmoving, outside it. Disturbance comes only from within, from our own perceptions"

Also, if one were to remember that death is around the corner, they wouldn't allow themselves to be held back by other people's actions...

The thing is, if you got offered a job (not voluntary work) and you worked very hard and at the end of it all do not get paid, would you not feel like that's unjust? Don't tell me you're better than the rest of us and could just get over it in a day. I also bet you have felt wronged in your life before in other words, like a 'victim'. So there's no need to victim blame. I have the right to feel angered by what happened.

Just because animals may have it worse than me, doesn't mean that what I've been through hasn't been a struggle. We all have our own struggles and trials in life. Funnily enough this is what narcissists do. They undermine a person's suffering by always comparing it to someone else's. If I were an animal going through those struggles you've mentioned and I'd complain hypothetically speaking, I guess you could say well at least you didn't die in a fire. I'm not saying you're a narcissist but undermining my struggle is not a good to do.

I don't just feel anger at them because they wronged me, they also wronged other people who worked for them. Never paid them. I feel sad for them too. It's only human to feel angry at injustice. Do I want to get over my anger? Yes I do. It's a process. I want to get on with my life the best way possible.

And my case is worthy of bringing into court. Would you also tell all other people who went to court that they all have a victim mentality and should just forget and let the narcissists and the sociopaths out there carry on doing illegal activities?

It's easy to point the finger at someone and say you have a victim mindset when it's not you who's suffering and doesn't affect you personally.

Also victim mentality is 'the belief that one is always a victim the idea that bad things will always happen to one.' Do I feel like a victim all the time? No. In fact sometimes I feel I've wronged people too because I'm imperfect. But I'm not proud of that and try to make things right.

[Cerberus]

The thing is, if you got offered a job (not voluntary work) and you worked very hard and at the end of it all do not get paid, would you not feel like that's unjust? Don't tell me you're better than the rest of us and could just get over it in a day. I also bet you have felt wronged in your life before in other words, like a 'victim'. So there's no need to victim blame. I have the right to feel angered by what happened.

If it is unjust it's unjust; Personally I might get frustrated at first, but I'll eventually try to see if there is anything I can do, e.g suing, and if I was willing to go that route, I'll do it, otherwise, I'll just drop it. Might leave a couple of bad reviews etc...and then move on.

Just because animals may have it worse than me, doesn't mean that what I've been through hasn't been a struggle. We all have our own struggles and trials in life. Funnily enough this is what narcissists do. They undermine a person's suffering by always comparing it to someone else's. If I were an animal going through those struggles you've mentioned and I'd complain hypothetically speaking, I guess you could say well at least you didn't die in a fire. I'm not saying you're a narcissist but undermining my struggle is not a good to do.

The point that I tried to make is that even animals aren't held back by their struggle, but in the contrary, they become stronger and more prepared.

And my case is worthy of bringing into court. Would you also tell all other people who went to court that they all have a victim mentality and should just forget and let the narcissists and the sociopaths out there carry on doing illegal activities?

Yes absolutely, if you can go to court do so...That's one of the things that you could do. Your question is absolutely nonsensical though, I've never said anything close to that....

It's easy to point the finger at someone and say you have a victim mindset when it's not you who's suffering and doesn't affect you personally.

I agree, but I never did that though..(show me otherwise).
SOMEHOW you feel attacked by what I wrote as a response to what reel said, basically what she said is "this person was hurt, and then hurt more and I dont think the damage is easy to fix"....apparently that's what having sympathy is like ?????...But really I thought you needed more than sympathy so I wrote some advice that you could take for what it's worth or leave.

My advice would be to focus on a noble goal in your life, if you have any. These things you're talking about are not hindering you from, say, becoming better, or becoming closer to god. But it is the opposite, these are all opportunities to achieve those goals.
Try not to focus on hardship from the perspective of someone who is being harmed, but instead try to look at it from the perspective of someone being challenged, and through such events you can change for the better, or change for the worst (even in a very small proportion).

Sometimes the subjects of our complaints make no sense. A liar for lying ? An ignorant person for an ignorant deed ? .... Everything is in order and instead what we can do is try to understand them and learn to deal with them. All these are part of life's challenges. We either reform ourselves to succeed in these challenges as we meet them, OR, we fail to reform ourselves and fail the challenges, get stuck, complain, suffer, look for easy way out....etc.

[reel]

Thanks for having some empathy sister I appreciate it.

But although they managed to use me by getting me to work for them without pay, I never believed that I was horrible or bad for wanting to get paid because that's basically the reason for why I worked. One of the ladies in the office tried to make me feel guilty by staring at me in a certain way but it never got to me. It was just way too obvious they're the ones in the wrong. I think I have been gaslighted before in my life by other people but not this time.

Thanks for clarification. I thought you were a scapegoat from nfamily. But I must say narcs are a headache at work also. I want you to win against them. My prayer is with you. Fight them calmly so they don't do any drama of heading for suicide or having fake heart attack just to make it look like you were the one abusing them.

Life is way too short to be thinking like this, to be living like a perpetual victim, or to be held back by other people's wrong doings... Also if you believed that you've been damaged tha's when you truly become damaged.

That's the exact thing narcs use against their victims though. There is a joke about it also
"Narcissist's Prayer That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did... You deserved it."

Look at the animal world for instance, being preyed upon, having to constantly run for your life, being in a life and death situation most of the time, having to rely on your senses to survive etc....and yet for every occurence the animal becomes stronger and more prepared, they may end up with scars, but that does not hold them back. The strongest animals, the survivors, have the most scars too. These are animals...

You are describing survival of the fittest family system in which narcs are the parents. Unfortunately, this is unhealthy and immoral for humans http//parenting.exposed/tag/survival-of-the-fittest-family-system/

But to get to the point, there is a saying from the buddha that is very pertinent here, it goes like this "Whatever harm an enemy may do to an enemy, or a hater to a hater, an ill-directed mind inflicts on oneself greater harm" or this stoic saying can be useful too "That things have no hold on the soul. They stand there unmoving, outside it. Disturbance comes only from within, from our own perceptions"

Also, if one were to remember that death is around the corner, they wouldn't allow themselves to be held back by other people's actions...

Such things don't apply to victims esp scapegoat children of narcs. What they go through is like emotional rape. Nature of narcs truly debunks the idea that movie villains are fictional characters. They live to be evil. Hard to believe. Children are an easy target. This sums up what is in store for them https//www.nctsn.org/what-is-child-trauma/trauma-types/complex-trauma/effects

[Cerberus]

That's the exact thing narcs use against their victims though. There is a joke about it also
"Narcissist's Prayer That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did... You deserved it."

I responded to you with my personal opinion when you said something that boiled down to this "she is hurt and hurt and damage is hard to fix" and that's how you dismiss it ? We're not even in the context of a narc vs a victim, or are you trying to prove someone here is a narc ?

You are describing survival of the fittest family system in which narcs are the parents. Unfortunately, this is unhealthy and immoral for humans http//parenting.exposed/tag/survival-of-the-fittest-family-system/

No i'm not...and I've just re-explained it to OP.
"even animals aren't held back by their struggle, but in the contrary, they become stronger and more prepared", absolutely ZERO to do with bullying.

Such things don't apply to victims esp scapegoat children of narcs. What they go through is like emotional rape. Nature of narcs truly debunks the idea that movie villains are fictional characters. They live to be evil. Hard to believe. Children are an easy target. This sums up what is in store for them https//www.nctsn.org/what-is-child-trauma/trauma-types/complex-trauma/effects

"such things I do not understand but here is another article, this one about child trauma"

Ok well to hell with stoic philosopy or buddhist wisdom or anything in-between, but assuming you follow the quran....what do you make of the following verses

"For indeed, with hardship ease."

"Allah does not burden a soul beyond that it can bear"

"He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed"

(if you say "Such things don't apply to victims esp scapegoat children of narcs" I'd truly be impressed)

[reel]

I responded to you with my personal opinion when you said something that boiled down to this "she is hurt and hurt and damage is hard to fix" and that's how you dismiss it ? We're not even in the context of a narc vs a victim, or are you trying to prove someone here is a narc ?

She mentioned narcs. Later cleared up that it was about her employment. That said, there is a reason why narcs can't keep employees, spouses, friends and relatives. The abuse they do is called body snatching. We know very well that you are not a narc. What you said is concensus held by all of us. However, it doesn't apply to their victims.

No i'm not...and I've just re-explained it to OP.
"even animals aren't held back by their struggle, but in the contrary, they become stronger and more prepared", absolutely ZERO to do with bullying.

"such things I do not understand but here is another article, this one about child trauma"

Animals don't waste their lives taking revenge year after year like narcs. Here is what happened to Air Force veteran who killed himself for not being able to take the abuse any longer

They suffered through smear campaigning, stalking, online harassment, slander, defamation, invasion of privacy, displaying of personal, medical, and financial information on blogs online, cyberbullying, cyberstalking, intimidation, job loss, hacking, credit monitoring, accessing of credit/auto accounts, and so much more. The victims relocated twice within one year to "hide" their location, but the abuser would find their whereabouts by accessing a family members email acct. The abuser constantly made threats of litigation of defamation and harassment against the victims, but the victims were never worried about the latter. The abuser could never provide one shred of evidence of reported harassment. The worst part is that the abuser claimed to be the victim of stalking and harassment in order to gain attention, support, and sympathy from their followers (which is a typical behavior of Narcissistic Personality disordered individuals).
https//www.change.org/p/protection-for-victims-that-are-suffering-emotional-psychological-and-financial-abuse-by-narcissistic-personality-disordered-individuals

Ok well to hell with stoic philosopy or buddhist wisdom or anything in-between, but assuming you follow the quran....what do you make of the following verses

"For indeed, with hardship ease."

"Allah does not burden a soul beyond that it can bear"

"He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed"

(if you say "Such things don't apply to victims esp scapegoat children of narcs" I'd truly be impressed)

My views about those verses actually changed. I wouldn't apply them to limited soceity we live in.

Let's not forget that God says fitnah is worse than murder. Also this

And how could you refuse to fight in the cause of God and of the utterly helpless men and women and children who are crying, "O our Sustainer! Lead us forth out of this land whose people are oppressors, and raise for us, out of Thy grace, a protector, and raise for us, out of Thy grace, one who will bring us succour!"475

By the way, narcs fit the description of oppressive disbelievers we find in Quran.

[Cerberus]

She mentioned narcs. Later cleared up that it was about her employment. That said, there is a reason why narcs can't keep employees, spouses, friends and relatives. The abuse they do is called body snatching. We know very well that you are not a narc. What you said is concensus held by all of us. However, it doesn't apply to their victims.

You have to understand that we are not talking about narcs, or victims of narcs. I never did, nor did OP. I said, and I still maintain it, that we are not born to be perpetual victims, yes we can be wronged (and therefore be victims) but we follow our best judgement to do something about it, this is our life and we are eventually responsible for it.

When someone says, THIS or THAT is a narc, it doesn't make THIS or THAT a narc. For even the one who blames the other of evil doing can be blamed by others of evil doing themselves. Looking at things from different angles. Do they have good judgement ? I do not trust people to have good judgement at all. Are they biased ? I do not trust people to be unbiased at all. Naturally, people's reason is being overshadowed by their selfish emotions. It is the most pervasive thing that is happening in today's world. I feel hurt therefore I am hurt and he who appear to hurt me is the reason why. Incorrect. The things that appear to hurt you could be wrong, they're simply impressions, very simplistic, shallow impressions that poorly and selfishly explain why things are happening to you.

Animals don't waste their lives taking revenge year after year like narcs. Here is what happened to Air Force veteran who killed himself for not being able to take the abuse any longer

This is an absurdly strange followup to what I said. It's very simple though, that even animals (assuming we mutually agree that we are supposed to be better than animals), THEY face struggle too, and they must deal with them and they do, and they become better, more experienced, more prepared for the wild life by doing so. Like a lion that had long lasting pride must have fought against so many lions, and must have the most scars too. It is not a matter of complaining but rather of doing the right thing...AND WE as humans must do the right thing aswell when facing tribulations. We are resourceful, intelligent, strong, thoughtful beings and we better believe so, positivity helps tremendously to uncover our potential. There is no life without struggle... So in my opinion, it is better to adopt a more positive mindset about struggle, and to take struggle as an opportunity to improve ourselves.

My views about those verses actually changed. I wouldn't apply them to limited soceity we live in.

It's ok for views to change, but only if they change for what's more reasonable. If you can thoughtfully back up why you think that a general statement like "Allah does not burden a soul beyond that it can bear" does not apply in today's world.

There is a lot that you ignore, things that affects us directly, things that require self-knowledge. Do you think someone who lacks self-knowledge is going to be able to TRUTHFULLY DIAGNOSE A SITUATION ? Ignoring their own self in the process despite how much your own self is affecting you in a situation, in reading the situation and forming opinions about it. That people wish to feel better about themselves and the things they are willing to say, believe and accept to achieve that... There is more than just narcs and victims of narcs...

What you have brushed away before is an accurate, deep, truth; an ill-directed mind brings the most harm. Clueless people run toward their own demise. And pain is inevitable, and an invitation to reform or not reform. Most people do not reform though, they prefer the easy way, the pleasurable, less painful way, by means of things like distractions, self-fulfilling stances, finding comfort in groups, etc etc...

I think this is my last contribution for this thread.

[reel]

You have to understand that we are not talking about narcs, or victims of narcs. I never did, nor did OP.

She did mention narcs and we know they are of dark triad
https//www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/toxic-relationships/201812/beware-the-malevolent-dark-triad

I said, and I still maintain it, that we are not born to be perpetual victims, yes we can be wronged (and therefore be victims) but we follow our best judgement to do something about it, this is our life and we are eventually responsible for it.

I believe that also. Not getting justice can make it hard for some to move on. And honestly, we are responsible for how some people can defraud others. She would have not worked for the person if she had info on narcs.

When someone says, THIS or THAT is a narc, it doesn't make THIS or THAT a narc. For even the one who blames the other of evil doing can be blamed by others of evil doing themselves.

Normal humans can reflect. Hence, if they believe they did some sort of harm or if you tell them about it they have no problem in correcting themselves. Try that on a narc and soon they will put you in their list of enemies and for several years go after you. They can’t sit still and sleep until they do something to the victim.

Looking at things from different angles. Do they have good judgement ? I do not trust people to have good judgement at all. Are they biased ? I do not trust people to be unbiased at all. Naturally, people's reason is being overshadowed by their selfish emotions. It is the most pervasive thing that is happening in today's world. I feel hurt therefore I am hurt and he who appear to hurt me is the reason why. Incorrect. The things that appear to hurt you could be wrong, they're simply impressions, very simplistic, shallow impressions that poorly and selfishly explain why things are happening to you.

And what if the victim is not being spared? I already gave you an example of what happened to an air force. Narcs would have not been an issue if they weren't engulfed by the urge to take revenge.

This is an absurdly strange followup to what I said. It's very simple though, that even animals (assuming we mutually agree that we are supposed to be better than animals), THEY face struggle too, and they must deal with them and they do, and they become better, more experienced, more prepared for the wild life by doing so. Like a lion that had long lasting pride must have fought against so many lions, and must have the most scars too. It is not a matter of complaining but rather of doing the right thing...AND WE as humans must do the right thing aswell when facing tribulations. We are resourceful, intelligent, strong, thoughtful beings and we better believe so, positivity helps tremendously to uncover our potential. There is no life without struggle... So in my opinion, it is better to adopt a more positive mindset about struggle, and to take struggle as an opportunity to improve ourselves.

In animal kingdom, they only prefer the strongest. Hence, they practice eugenic. The weak is killed and even eaten by the moms. Lions find it okay to kill disrespectful cubs. But overall, animals seem to be programmed to like their struggle.

No human wishes to victim. Everyone wants to make good use of the gift they received from God.
But to stand up again, there is a need for safety which unfortunately narcs don't allow. It is much worse for the scapegoats.Nparents are notorious for sabotaging their targeted kids’ talents, grades, social life and just literally anything linked to happiness.

Those who commit honor killing seem to harbor NPD traits. They are usually welcomed back by their kid because they are not told that narcs don't change. Hope you can see now why victims can't totally always rise up from the ashes.

It's ok for views to change, but only if they change for what's more reasonable. If you can thoughtfully back up why you think that a general statement like "Allah does not burden a soul beyond that it can bear" does not apply in today's world.

Not sure if that one is interpreted correctly. Otherwise, God would not have asked us to pray so he would not burden us.

Here is the full verse 2286 On no soul doth Allah Place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns. (Pray "Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error; our Lord! Lay not on us a burden Like that which Thou didst lay on those before us; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; Help us against those who stand against faith."

There is a lot that you ignore, things that affects us directly, things that require self-knowledge. Do you think someone who lacks self-knowledge is going to be able to TRUTHFULLY DIAGNOSE A SITUATION ? Ignoring their own self in the process despite how much your own self is affecting you in a situation, in reading the situation and forming opinions about it. That people wish to feel better about themselves and the things they are willing to say, believe and accept to achieve that... There is more than just narcs and victims of narcs...

That’s the preferred weapon of narcs Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which a person or a group covertly sows seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or group, making them question their own memory, perception, or judgment, often evoking in them cognitive dissonance and other changes including low self-esteem. Using denial, misdirection, contradiction, and misinformation, gaslighting involves attempts to destabilize the victim and delegitimize the victim's beliefs. https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

What you have brushed away before is an accurate, deep, truth; an ill-directed mind brings the most harm. Clueless people run toward their own demise. And pain is inevitable, and an invitation to reform or not reform. Most people do not reform though, they prefer the easy way, the pleasurable, less painful way, by means of things like distractions, self-fulfilling stances, finding comfort in groups, etc etc...
I think this is my last contribution for this thread.

I understand where you are coming from. Some years ago, I would have told a victim what you said here. But now i see where we are going wrong because of so much info coming out of FBI, CIA, Child protection agencies and many others on the danger of narcs. I had a lot of faith in humans. Unfortunately, there were things we all ignored about a certain personality for which narcs are living among us. I consider that to be our failure.

[Cerberus]

The quality of thoughts that people harbor is what benefits them. Not them knowing about narcs or reading a bunch of random blog articles about it. Life doesn't revolve around that. It revolves around how one thinks.

And if anyone wants to learn something, definitely do not waste time reading tons of articles about narcs, reel is a good example of that. But instead, learn the distinction between reason and emotion. How reason must keep ALL emotions in check, and no matter how you feel, you must always try to follow reason instead of your emotions. Emotions don't know anything about right or wrong, they only seek to be fulfilled, selfishly, careless about anything or anyone else, careless about what is right or wrong. And they push you to do careless, selfish, self-fulfilling acts.

Our thinking has the ability to fix our emotional reactions to people. We can override our false impressions with more reasonable ones, and react to them accordingly.

There is a lot that you ignore, things that affects us directly, things that require self-knowledge. Do you think someone who lacks self-knowledge is going to be able to TRUTHFULLY DIAGNOSE A SITUATION ? Ignoring their own self in the process despite how much your own self is affecting you in a situation, in reading the situation and forming opinions about it. That people wish to feel better about themselves and the things they are willing to say, believe and accept to achieve that... There is more than just narcs and victims of narcs...

That’s the preferred weapon of narcs Gaslighting is a form of psychological......

Life is way too short to be thinking like this, to be living like a perpetual victim, or to be held back by other people's wrong doings... Also if you believed that you've been damaged tha's when you truly become damaged.

That's the exact thing narcs use against their victims though. There is a joke about it also

At this point I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. I have nothing for you and you got nothing for me, you follow your findings and I follow mine.
But if there is anything I must still emphasize on, despite our disagreement, is that you should definitely STOP RESPONDING LIKE THE ABOVE. I understand this is part of the typical "LITERALLY HITLER" type of liberal american speech to dismiss other people, but it's pretty crazy. And there is alot of crazy going on in the world rn and specially in your country (idk if it's because it's the most mediatized or because crazy people are becoming louder and louder over there or both?) and by crazy I mean those who gave up reason for their own selfish emotions. It's ok to be told that "you ignore things, here is why", doesn't make me have to be associated with a mental illness, the boogeyman that you created for yourself.