The fuel of hell and the new life forms of heaven
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From the following verses, I understand Aljinn et aljinns. As two different creations.
Like human beings, Aljinn have feet, hearts, eyes, ears, offspring, soldiers, nations, they speak, warn, think, create and have received messengers among them.Peace Houriya/Marie, it is nice to discuss with you the great reading again. The fantasy and the human are indeed two different creations that are bonded together. While the human is a living creature, the fantasy is not a living creature since it is not made of water but of fire. The fantasy uses the human as a vehicle to walk to listen and to produce beautiful art (such as statues for Solomon) and when the human makes it submit with the truth in the law of aerodynamics it can produce flying machines (such as a flying machine that enables rapid travel to transport the queen's throne to Solomon).
Peace,
Ayman
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An example of falsehood that is not necessarily "human fantasy" is impressions (e.g a woman seeing her husband talking to another woman and becomes jealous) Not that impressions are always wrong, but they are likely to be wrong because they are not founded on something that make them true.
Peace Cerberus, impression is based on the imagination. Although the human imagination is the source of all falsehood in the universe, this doesn't mean that truth cannot come from controlled imagination. Take your example of "impression". I talk to someone on the phone and I get the impression that they are a young 18 year old boy. When I meet them, they are actually a 60 years old man. What gave me the impression is my imagination. As I control my imagination with the truth from meeting them, I change my impression and so on. If I am really in strong control of my imagination, then I wouldn't even form an impression about their age until I meet them and ask them what their age is )
This is the real question What is the source of truth. And of course if truth has a source then it must be unique or in a sense coherent with any other source of truth, because as Ibn Rushd said, truth cannot negate truth.
Humans are not the source of the truth. The truth is out there whether humans find it or not. We are merely trying to get closer to the truth. Whether you have an impression about someone's age or not, you can only get closer to the date of birth but not down to the exact millisecond. You cannot control the time dimension that makes him age or the rate of regeneration of cells in his body to make him look younger or older. The god is the truth and is the source of all truth.
Now truth, how do you know that what you think is true is really true ? People have to have a tool by which they can measure truth. Otherwise, in the absence of such tool, people are left with things that make them feel comfortable. In other words, in the absence of such tool, people will inevitably choose what brings them pleasure, self-fulfillement, comfort...something that serves them selfishly, this is the is the root of "evil", imo.
In the traditional judeo-christian human-centric view of the world the human is at the center of the universe and thus his measurement of the truth is what defines truth. In the great reading world view truth is independent of humans and truth is not determined by our measurement. Our measurement is merely an attempt to get closer to the truth that is already out there no matter what we choose.
Do we even have such tool ? is it internal or external ? Are we born with it, do we acquire it ?
We do have a tool to help us serve the truth. The tool is our true self, which is part of the universal truth. When your imagination submits to your "true you" as it was supposed to do from the start then you can get closer to the truth and serve it (get closer to the god and serve him, since the god is for all intents and purposes the truth).
I think we have it, it is what makes humans above animals, our ability to reason, to think logically, to reflect on oneself etc, it is something that is tied to our mind. Now do we have access to it ? Not that granted, one has to learn to use it, or in a sense "follow it", and the more you do the more it clears out for you as if it was foggy in the first place. Or like Rumi says "Sit, be still, and listen. You are drunk and we are at the edge of the roof!".
Indeed, knowing the "true you" (your real self) that is part of the truth in the universe and having your imagination submit to it (as it was supposed to from the start) is what clears the fog. The true self is what remains after we die since truth is independent of humans.
If such thing is really is the tool by which truth is determined, then in fact, science is a good example of it. If scientists are able to uncover the inner workings of the different things in our universe using that very tool, and the possibility that our universe was created by a a God Being, and such inner workings were meticulously designed by God, doesn't that sort of make that tool something shared between us and God ? Or at the very least, it allows us to understand the hows and whys of God's creation ? Isn't that something ?
Yes. Scientists use those tools to get closer to the truth in the universe. Scientists don't create truth. The god is not some being in white robes sitting on a cloud. The god is the truth and the universe is created with the truth. It is not a possibility. It is a certainty.
What happens when we continuously apply that tool on our own self and life ? We gain self-knowledge, understanding and wisdom. But it is not as easy as applying it on external things the way scientists do. Because we are constantly inclined to go for what brings us self-fulfillement, that selfish nature of the human body. It is as if, scientists were continuously offered large sums of money to back certain theories. Will there be any truth ?
Indeed controlling our imagination and making it submit to our real self is simple but can be hard because we often forget ourselves and we let the imagination take over.
Peace,
Ayman
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Everything that the human being creates and realizes comes from his imagination.
Indeed the imagination (the jinn) plays an important role in everything the human creates. It can make us create idols and black cubes when it controls us or we can make it submit to us with the truth and invent technology to help us lead the earth.
Depending on his family, social, cultural conditioning, his generational heritage, he is constantly bombarded with thoughts.
When he is identified with a thought / emotion, he becomes this thought / emotion, he acts as a consequence of this thought / emotion which deprives him of all freedom of action.
The good news is, we are not those thoughts, we can be freed from them by being aware of the thoughts in our fields of consciousness, our inner space.
We can neither purify them, nor control them, they only pass through our fields of consciousness like clouds in the sky. Believing that we can fight or stop a thought / emotion, we only exacerbate it.
The best way to purify ourself of thoughts / emotions is to observe them without any personal desire to modify them,
the interior struggle ceases, the miracle of letting go takes place, God relaxes our chests. Life flows smoothly in peace, joy and love.
We live in hell when we live in struggle, we say no to life events, we believe in the illusion of thoughts and our inner separation from the outside world. When this inner separation ceases, we become vast inside and no thought / emotion can pollute our inner peace.Indeed our true self by being "true" is inherently part of the truth in the universe (the outside world).
Peace,
Ayman
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Basically we are social animals. We do not live our own lives, we live our “expected/dictated/pressurized” life by society.
We conform to the majority or are made to conform to the majority.
Those trying to live their own lives are very few people in this world of “expectations”. This is what most people see as reality, conforming to the systems of men.Or one can ask what is our own life? This may lead to what brother Cerberus was talking about in his post. They reflect on themselves or should reflect.
But the magnet of society is too strong and keeps pulling us towards conformity.
So, the truth becomes irrelevant to the majority.
.Living our lives then will be dependent on the created, and we cut ourselves from the Creator. We take on other gods as a god and ignore The GOD.
Therefore we live our life the wrong way around ,the illusion becomes our reality and the reality becomes an illusion to us.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
The human being is endowed with a brain to reason, a hidden imaginary, I do not consider it as a second entity nested with the human being. There are a lot of repetitive, unnecessary, destructive thoughts.
The Jinn can lead humans astray, yet sayateen are among us and among the jinn. What comes from the human or the jinn, God only knows (desires, passion ..).
When we identify with a thought, it controls our life, takes power over us. The little inner voice is within us, depends on our experience, our heritage, on the known.
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When we identify with a thought, it controls our life, takes power over us.
If what you meant was if we identify all thoughts appearing inside the mind all as our own thoughts, then I concur with you.
When one is attached to the thoughts of fear, hate, aggressiveness, pride, sadness appearing inside his/her own mind then such thoughts will be manifested as one's reality.
You are what you are inside of you.
Nobody put you to 'hell', let alone God, it's you who put yourselves to your own 'hell'.More in depth on this matter
Heaven And Hell
https//youtu.be/fFrn7BgSkUMYet such experience can be seen also as a 'catalyst'.
Experiencing fear will make one to desire, learn and recognize trust, courage and peace/calmness.
And once there's a desire, the path will be laid out to make a journey towards it. -
If what you meant was if we identify all thoughts appearing inside the mind all as our own thoughts, then I concur with you.
When one is attached to the thoughts of fear, hate, aggressiveness, pride, sadness appearing inside his/her own mind then such thoughts will be manifested as one's reality.
You are what you are inside of you.
Nobody put you to 'hell', let alone God, it's you who put yourselves to your own 'hell'.we identify / merge with thoughts as we identify / merge with our identity name, family situation, professional ...
Emotion is the body's reaction to thought
I'm talking about the hell you create when you're a prisoner of thoughts, you struggle internally.
We must not stray too far from Ayman's thread
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Peace Cerberus, impression is based on the imagination. Although the human imagination is the source of all falsehood in the universe, this doesn't mean that truth cannot come from controlled imagination. Take your example of "impression". I talk to someone on the phone and I get the impression that they are a young 18 year old boy. When I meet them, they are actually a 60 years old man. What gave me the impression is my imagination. As I control my imagination with the truth from meeting them, I change my impression and so on. If I am really in strong control of my imagination, then I wouldn't even form an impression about their age until I meet them and ask them what their age is )
Yes impression is based on imagination. Imagination simply being the human ability to form mental images. It's a pretty vague thing. I brought impression specifically as a counter-example to your initial claim that "fantasy" is the "only" source of falsehood.
Imagination is an ability.
What you consider "controlling imagination" is simply reasoning logically about what you imagine, and not just anything you "imagine", specifically the things that you imagine while being unaware,that is, false perceptions and impressions...You simply are applying reason to what you think. Which you should. Just like you would to the things you are looking at, listening to, talking about ..etc.Generally one should reason about what they have in mind, and about their motives. Good logic brought the "problem" of reason being used as an argumentation tool rather than a tool to find truth. Which is true, just like if you had a group of criminals "reasoning" about HOW to weasle their way into a bank to steal the money. But what about reasoning about the WHY ? that's where you find that they have their reasons for wanting to steal the bank but it's all just nonsense that is selfishly motivated.
Reason applied to ourselves brings self-knowledge, understanding of ourselves and wisdom, and allows us to rectify our thoughts and behavior.
I dont find it intuitive to keep trying to pinpoint things as being "the only source of falsehood" or what not. I understand you're trying to find something which you can project back unto to quran in place of "Jinn", but I find it more intuitive to focus on the source of truth. (source as in what brings to truth)
Humans are not the source of the truth. The truth is out there whether humans find it or not. We are merely trying to get closer to the truth. Whether you have an impression about someone's age or not, you can only get closer to the date of birth but not down to the exact millisecond. You cannot control the time dimension that makes him age or the rate of regeneration of cells in his body to make him look younger or older. The god is the truth and is the source of all truth.
I agree, I've not claimed that humans create truth or something ??? What is the source of truth in humans doesn't necessarily mean what generates truth, but what leads to it. What brings people to the truth, or closer to it. If you were to think that you had two sources of truth for example, they ought to be coherent. As truth cannot contradict truth. I briefly brought Ibn Rushd because he was a muslim who believed that the Quran is a source of truth, but also believed that reason is a source of truth. However, unlike most muslims (or religious people in general), he had the courage to say that if an interpretation of the quran were to come in conflict with the findings of reason, then the quran ought to be reinterpreted so as to meet the findings of reason, stating that truth cannot negate truth. (which is also what you're trying to do with your struggle to pinpoint something as the ultimate source of falsehood that meets the "reinterpreted" descripton of Jinn, which is fine, good luck to you)
In the traditional judeo-christian human-centric view of the world the human is at the center of the universe and thus his measurement of the truth is what defines truth. In the great reading world view truth is independent of humans and truth is not determined by our measurement. Our measurement is merely an attempt to get closer to the truth that is already out there no matter what we choose.
The individual is at the center of his own life. This is what matters. What judeo christian or whatever worldview is irrelevant. If the individual decides to seek the truth how does he do it ? The individual must be able to seek the truth and find it. (or get closer to it or whatever you prefer, it's not like the truth is a single point that the individual can sit on). I agree that our attempt to measure truth is for the sake of getting closer to the truth. The idea that a measurement instrument for something defines that thing is a crazy idea.
Yes. Scientists use those tools to get closer to the truth in the universe. Scientists don't create truth. The god is not some being in white robes sitting on a cloud. The god is the truth and the universe is created with the truth. It is not a possibility. It is a certainty.
I agree
Indeed controlling our imagination and making it submit to our real self is simple but can be hard because we often forget ourselves and we let the imagination take over.
Initially, it's very much needed to try to understand oneself first, using the tool that we've been gifted with.
I used to think controlling oneself was necessary but as times went by I learned, though I'm still experiencing and reflecting on it, that the goal is not to control oneself but rather to change oneself. From this unreasonable, selfish impulsive individual to a reasonable selfless, thoughtful, intelligent individual. This I think is the purpose of life. A sort of metamorphosis.
I dont think that there needs to be a constant issue in our existence that must be resolved by means of a constant control. But perhaps the issue or conflict could be replaced by harmony by means of change. And the direction of this change is determined by reason. -
we identify / merge with thoughts as we identify / merge with our identity name, family situation, professional ...
There are many things that we identify our-SELF with.
Another good and easy to digest example might be with the avatar(s) on this forum.I deliberately put plural on the noun, because we can also identify our-SELF with many identities.
Emotion is the body's reaction to thought
According to Carl Jung emotion has 'deeper' source than merely our physical body.
Emotion was generated or the product of the 'unconscious mind' and I tend to agree with him.I'm talking about the hell you create when you're a prisoner of thoughts, you struggle internally.
https//quotefancy.com/media/wallpaper/3840x2160/4786666-C-G-Jung-Quote-If-our-religion-is-based-on-salvation-our-chief.jpg
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The human being is endowed with a brain to reason, a hidden imaginary, I do not consider it as a second entity nested with the human being. There are a lot of repetitive, unnecessary, destructive thoughts.
The Jinn can lead humans astray, yet sayateen are among us and among the jinn. What comes from the human or the jinn, God only knows (desires, passion ..).
When we identify with a thought, it controls our life, takes power over us. The little inner voice is within us, depends on our experience, our heritage, on the known.
Peace Houriya,
2424 On the day their tongues, hands, and legs testify to what they used to do.
Are those second entities nested with the human being with their own ability to testify? Yes. We control them as best as we can but sometimes we can't control them.
Imagination gives humans the ability to invent technology and beauty (when controlled) as well as lie and deceive (when out of control). Please translate "jinn". Are they ghosts? Are they some red humanoids with horns and holding a fork? We all know what drives us to lie and do wrong. It is our imagination and not a ghost or a red humanoid with a tail or a serpent or a reptilian or whatever other imaginary nonsense. As you said, there can be a lot of repetitive, unnecessary, destructive thoughts... what allows them to be such is an uncontrolled imagination that makes us imagine that they are important and necessary... when the imagination runs wild they control us. Instead, we should make the imagination submit to our real self.
Peace,
Ayman
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I find your thoughts very interesting, Ayman. However, Jinn were created before humans according to the Qur'an. How could our imaginations be created before us? Would we not logically have preceded our own imagination?
Thank you Wanderer for your question. Imagination as a concept as a creative energy was created before humans. Can't you see the beauty in the universe that was created before humans? Just like the atoms in our body, the iron in our blood, the concept of living cells that form every organ were all created before humans. Those building blocks were created before humans.
Peace,
Ayman
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Yes impression is based on imagination. Imagination simply being the human ability to form mental images. It's a pretty vague thing. I brought impression specifically as a counter-example to your initial claim that "fantasy" is the "only" source of falsehood.
Imagination is an ability.
What you consider "controlling imagination" is simply reasoning logically about what you imagine, and not just anything you "imagine", specifically the things that you imagine while being unaware, that is, false perceptions and impressions...You simply are applying reason to what you think. Which you should. Just like you would to the things you are looking at, listening to, talking about ..etc.Generally one should reason about what they have in mind, and about their motives. Good logic brought the "problem" of reason being used as an argumentation tool rather than a tool to find truth. Which is true, just like if you had a group of criminals "reasoning" about HOW to weasle their way into a bank to steal the money. But what about reasoning about the WHY ? that's where you find that they have their reasons for wanting to steal the bank but it's all just nonsense that is selfishly motivated.
Controlling imagination is both about what you explicitly imagine (how to steal money) and what you casually imagine while unaware (first impression). A thief can imagine a very good plan to steal a bank and then the plan can work and he gets away with the heist. However, this has no bearing on the fact that as far as the universe is concerned this stealing is evil falsehood. At the end, the thief, even if he lives to be a hundred years old, will die and the evil theft that he did will remain as falsehood.
Reason applied to ourselves brings self-knowledge, understanding of ourselves and wisdom, and allows us to rectify our thoughts and behavior.
Yes. Reason that is aligned with the truth in the universe is what brings self-knowledge, understanding and wisdom and allows us to control our thoughts and behavior. On the other hand, an uncontrolled imagination does the exact opposite.
I dont find it intuitive to keep trying to pinpoint things as being "the only source of falsehood" or what not. I understand you're trying to find something which you can project back unto to quran in place of "Jinn", but I find it more intuitive to focus on the source of truth. (source as in what brings to truth)
But human imagination is indeed the only source of falsehood in the universe. There is no other source. By understanding this and having our imagination submit to us as it was supposed to do initially, we can focus better on the truth and serve it.
I agree, I've not claimed that humans create truth or something ??? What is the source of truth in humans doesn't necessarily mean what generates truth, but what leads to it. What brings people to the truth, or closer to it. If you were to think that you had two sources of truth for example, they ought to be coherent. As truth cannot contradict truth.
The paths to the truths will naturally be different since some people are closer to the truth than others. Also, the signs that lead us to the truth will be different from one person to another. It is still one source of truth and each of us having to follow his own straight path to get closer to the source, doesn't mean multiple sources.
I briefly brought Ibn Rushd because he was a muslim who believed that the Quran is a source of truth, but also believed that reason is a source of truth. However, unlike most muslims (or religious people in general), he had the courage to say that if an interpretation of the quran were to come in conflict with the findings of reason, then the quran ought to be reinterpreted so as to meet the findings of reason, stating that truth cannot negate truth. (which is also what you're trying to do with your struggle to pinpoint something as the ultimate source of falsehood that meets the "reinterpreted" descripton of Jinn, which is fine, good luck to you)
It is true that just like we can only get closer to the truth, we can only strife to improve our interpretation of the Quran. Since it is OUR interpretation then it is not truth but is an attempt to get closer to the truth. Certainly, the interpretation of "jinn" as human "fantasy" is closer to the truth than ghosts or some red guy holding a fork or a reptilian. I am open to a better interpretation.
The individual is at the center of his own life. This is what matters. What judeo christian or whatever worldview is irrelevant. If the individual decides to seek the truth how does he do it ? The individual must be able to seek the truth and find it. (or get closer to it or whatever you prefer, it's not like the truth is a single point that the individual can sit on).
It depends on which part of the individual you are talking about. If there are two parts, the human fantasy and the true self, then the true self by definition is part of the universal truth (as per above truth has one source, the god). So by focusing on your true self and making it control your fantasy, you serve the universal truth and its source (which for all intents and purposes is the god).
I agree that our attempt to measure truth is for the sake of getting closer to the truth. The idea that a measurement instrument for something defines that thing is a crazy idea.
Agreed.
Initially, it's very much needed to try to understand oneself first, using the tool that we've been gifted with.
I used to think controlling oneself was necessary but as times went by I learned, though I'm still experiencing and reflecting on it, that the goal is not to control oneself but rather to change oneself. From this unreasonable, selfish impulsive individual to a reasonable selfless, thoughtful, intelligent individual. This I think is the purpose of life. A sort of metamorphosis.
I dont think that there needs to be a constant issue in our existence that must be resolved by means of a constant control. But perhaps the issue or conflict could be replaced by harmony by means of change. And the direction of this change is determined by reason.I agree, understanding the true you (which is by definition part of the universal truth) is needed. The true you is already created, we don't create truth. We simply purify our true self by controlling our fantasy (the only source of falsehood in the universe). So I agree we are changing by purifying ourselves from falsehood.
- Indeed he who has purified it has succeeded.
Peace,
Ayman
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salam ayman
i understand you are sayin the jin are human imagination?
i must disgree with you. i u derstand they are clearly a separate creation (please verify all thr info i write below should i be mistaken)
The God tells is that He told iblis to prostrate to adam but iblis refused and then became of the jinn (from my understanding iblis was an angel before)
The God tells us not to take iblis and his descendants as allies
the ninn worked for solomon pbuh (we are told they dived for him too... i dont see imagination diving)
in surah 72 we are told about a group of jinn that heard the Quran and about what they said and we are also told that when jinn try to steal a hearing from the heavens (high council?) they are followed by projectiles
The God tells us He asks the angels if humans took them as masters and the angels reply no humans took jinn as allies
The God tells us that the devil and his tribe see us from where we do not see them
humans and jinn were created to worship The God
etc etc
jinn are most definately separate creatures
i believe jinn might be angels who disbelieved and fell but there are counter arguments to that example surah 72 mentions that the men from humans took the men from the jinn meaning perhaps there are female jinns? (i understand angels are all “male”)
peace
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i understand you are sayin the jin are human imagination?
i must disgree with you. i u derstand they are clearly a separate creation (please verify all thr info i write below should i be mistaken)It is really hard to define any "creation" as being totally separate. Are the iron atoms in our blood a separate creation? Are our hands that could testify against us on the day of account separate? Yes and No.
The God tells is that He told iblis to prostrate to adam but iblis refused and then became of the jinn (from my understanding iblis was an angel before)
There is no such things in the great reading as a specie called angels. The term MLK ملك means owner/controller. It is not a specie but is a status that is given by the god and taken away by the god (see 326). Iblis was the original imagination that didn't submit to us as commanded by the god and therefore was stripped of his status as a controller.
The God tells us not to take iblis and his descendants as allies
Yes. We should not take the human imagination (the source of all falsehood in the universe) and its descendants as allies other than the god (the source of all truth in the universe).
the ninn worked for solomon pbuh (we are told they dived for him too... i dont see imagination diving)
Indeed all of our technology, including submarines are a product of the human imagination when it submits with the truth in the laws of fluid dynamics.
Not only that but the imagination produced beautiful art and statues for Solomon. It is the human creative energy.
in surah 72 we are told about a group of jinn that heard the Quran and about what they said and we are also told that when jinn try to steal a hearing from the heavens (high council?) they are followed by projectiles
Yes. The allegorical متشابهات passages of the great reading exclusively address the human imagination. As far as trying to penetrate the heavens and the earth and predicting the future, we try to do it using technology, which is a product of our imagination. I am not sure about the exact interpretation of the projectiles but it seems allegorical.
The God tells us He asks the angels if humans took them as masters and the angels reply no humans took jinn as allies
Yes. People who serve a black stone and a black cube in so-called Mecca believe that those idols control the wiping of their sins and can return them sinless like babies. Of course these are not real controllers but are a product of the imagination (jinn). Humans take those imaginary idols as allies.
Also, please notice that we are told in 3441 that most of those going to hell have faith in the imagination (jinn). Obviously we should not have faith in the imagination because it is not real.
The God tells us that the devil and his tribe see us from where we do not see them
Yes. The imagination cannot be seen. You can't see my imagination and I can't see yours. We can't even see our own imagination in our head. However, the imaginaiton is not part of the hidden الغيب since we should have faith in the hidden side but as per 3441 most of those going to hell have faith in the imagination (not the hidden side).
humans and jinn were created to worship The God
No such thing as worship in the great reading. We serve the god. We serve the god by fulfilling our role as good leaders خلفاء of this blessed earth. We accomplish this role by controlling our imagination جن and making it submit يسجد to us with the truth as it was supposed to do from the beginning. For example, when we imagine that we can fly and then we control our imagination and make it submit to us with the truth of the laws of aerodynamics we invent flying machines that can help us fly and help Solomon quickly transport the throne of the queen of Sheba across a great distance.
etc etc
jinn are most definately separate creatures
i believe jinn might be angels who disbelieved and fell but there are counter arguments to that example surah 72 mentions that the men from humans took the men from the jinn meaning perhaps there are female jinns? (i understand angels are all “male”)
peaceThere are no angels with white robes and halos in the great reading. Control is a status given and taken away by the god. And people do imagine men from the imagination (like an imaginary friend).
The interpretation that "jinn" is the imagination is empirically verifiable and is well aligned with all the passages in the great reading. Certainly what entices people to lie and do evil and is the only source of falsehood in the universe is the human imagination ... we all know it for certain... look inside you... you know it is not a ghost or red guy holding a fork or a serpent or any other mythical creature
Peace,
Ayman
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It is really hard to define any "creation" as being totally separate.
Everything is actually connected.
As actually in absolute reality only God exist.There is no such things in the great reading as a specie called angels. The term MLK ملك means owner/controller.
In Biblical Hebrew, the noun "Mel’akah" (מְלָאכָה), meaning "work", "occupation" or "craftsmanship".
So yes it might be a 'role' that is being assigned to.Yes. We should not take the human imagination (the source of all falsehood in the universe) and its descendants as allies other than the god (the source of all truth in the universe).
Indeed all of our technology, including submarines are a product of the human imagination when it submits with the truth in the laws of fluid dynamics.
The interpretation that "jinn" is the imagination is empirically verifiable and is well aligned with all the passages in the great reading. Certainly what entices people to lie and do evil and is the only source of falsehood in the universe is the human imagination ... we all know it for certain... look inside you... you know it is not a ghost or red guy holding a fork or a serpent or any other mythical creature )
Every creation is actually a product of God's imagination anyway (including human) it's not entirely correct to label anything as either 'falsehood' and 'truth' as it can be both, depending on the context and point of view. Anything on this universe can be 'falsehood' or 'imaginary' when put in certain context or point of view.
A similitude might be, jafar which is the product of my imagination and ayman which is the product of your imagination. In reality jafar and ayman do not exist, they only exist within the universe, or the context of this forum. When this web forum is dead and definitely so will they.
Extending on the concept further... beyond the scope of merely web forum universe.
What if I tell you that human, or should I say the spirit / consciousness of the human can also create things or should I say 'personality' as a product of it's own thought and imagination?
And yes it can be a 'ghost' or 'red guy holding a fork' or 'serpent' as well, depending on one's thought or imagination.
By ghost here it mean (one of) the personality that the spirit once being manifested or temporarily being attached to in this universe.How it happened are being explained in this video, and also a way where you can 'see' those 'personalities'.
Heart Chakra-Problems& Possibilites- Sadhguru
https//youtu.be/2CWJGKvQRU0?t=700But definitely one should not be 'afraid' of them let alone 'worship' them
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"The fantasy and the human are indeed two different creations that are bonded together. While the human is a living creature, the fantasy is not a living creature since it is not made of water but of fire."
Peace brother Ayman ..
Above is your quote.. You have completely derailed from Quran to give such assumptions... In fact you are in a fantasy world.
Jinn is fantasy? And not a living creature? And hell is not literal?
God was literally communicating with malaika (creature Jinn but status)... Was God talking to fantasy and unreal?.. What was it that Mariam and Ibrahim and his wife saw and communicated? Were they real or fantasy? Aren't the malaika Jinns? And created of fire? for you not... Okay..
What was that great dialogue between God and Iblees? Was it real? Why iblees claimed he was created by fire while still he was in the status of malaika and why iblees said he is better than Adam just giving the reason of created by fire? All what iblees talked is fantasy ?You got completely wrong to say human was created by water and jinn is by fire.. Brother all living creature was created by water... Human by clay and jinn by fire... But water is the main source of creation.. Did iblees said he was created by fire and Adam was by water?
According to 2285 .... We need to believe in Malaika.. Who are they? Are they fantasy and unreal? Weren't they part and parcel of creation of this earth and heavens?
Who is Gibreal who is Micheal ? Are they fantasy?
Who are those who come to take our soul and beat on the faces? Are they fantasy? Aren't they real? Who are they who beg for pardon of us from God? Who are they who goes up until the nearest heaven to steal the hearing and they were chased by fire? Are these human fantasy? What relation with them to human?
Who are those virgins whome no men or Jinn touched? Is it unreal fantasy not touched those virgins?
They all Jinn... Once again they all Jinn created by God by fire not by clay...How can hell is not literal? Why God need to replace the skin when it is burned? Why there need guards of 19 in hell. Is this imagination?
What is day of ressurection if hell is imagination and unreal? Why God says day and night hell is shown to pharoa untill day of ressurection? 4046.. why they wish to ransom earth full of gold to deliver them from hell...With whome God was furious in verse 711-18? So what was that promise to fill hell whoever followed Iblees? What is the respite iblees got until day of ressurection? So God ordered all the non existing fantasy of human to sujud Adam and one fantasy(iblees) denied? What a joke? Is hell unreal after reading all this?
To say jinn is fantasy of human and hell is not a place but a state of no life no death, you need to deny the day of ressurection and you need to make it unreal...
On that day God questions.. And witnesses are brought and all our records are given to read... Even messengers are questioned.. 5116"And when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen."Is the above verse imagination? Or Isa in a real day communicating to God infront of everyone saying that he never said to take him as God.. What a shame on those who said Jesus was God... So hell is no place but state and probably heaven also and day of ressurection also.. All just imagination.. Aren't they? Is that what you want to say? Is that what you understood what Quran says?
Better be with you that understanding.. May God save others from this misguiding.. -
Peace everyone,
Shaytan / jinn has no power over the believers. The angels bowed down to Adam except Iblee refused. It is an enemy to human beings. Submit it to us, I don't think it's our mission, don't follow it, yes we can.
When submitted to God alone, satan / jinn has no power over us.1422 And the devil said when the matter was complete "God had promised you the promise of truth, and I promised you and broke my promise. And I had no power over you except that I invited you and you responded to me. So do not blame me, but blame yourselves; I cannot help you nor can you help me. I reject that you have set me up as a partner before this; the wicked will have a painful retribution."
Peace
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"The fantasy and the human are indeed two different creations that are bonded together. While the human is a living creature, the fantasy is not a living creature since it is not made of water but of fire."
Peace brother Ayman ..
Above is your quote.. You have completely derailed from Quran to give such assumptions... In fact you are in a fantasy world.
Jinn is fantasy? And not a living creature?Peace dear brother Jkhan,
According to the great reading every living thing is made of water. The "jinn" is made of fire. So according to the great reading the "jinn" are not a living thing.
And hell is not literal?
Hell is literal but its descriptions are allegorical. This is just like "pain" is literal but how you feel pain is through electrical pulses transmitted to your brain cells through your nervous system. If your nervous system goes out of control and spontaneously transmits the worst pain that it can transmit then this would be the worst torture.
God was literally communicating with malaika (creature Jinn but status)... Was God talking to fantasy and unreal?.. What was hat Mariam and Ibrahim and his wife saw and communicated? Were they real or fantasy? Aren't the malaika Jinns? And created of fire? for you not... Okay..
The controllers aren't "jinn"/fantasy. Controller is just a role/status that the god appoints to any creature, living or not.
What was that great dialogue between God and Iblees? Was it real? Why iblees claimed he was created by fire while still he was in the status of malaika and why iblees said he is better than Adam just giving the reason of created by fire? All what iblees talked is fantasy ?
The dialogue is real but Iblees certainly didn't speak it in Arabic. So the dialogue in the great reading is allegorical and this is why it is told in different words every time it is recounted in the great reading.
You got completely wrong to say human was created by water and jinn is by fire.. Brother all living creature was created by water... Human by clay and jinn by fire... But water is the main source of creation.. Did iblees said he was created by fire and Adam was by water?
Living creatures are created from water. Clay/mud has water. Iblis is created from fire, so it is not a living thing. Simple.
According to 2285 .... We need to believe in Malaika.. Who are they? Are they fantasy and unreal? Weren't they part and parcel of creation of this earth and heavens?
They are controllers. They are any creature (living or not) who the god decides to give the status/role of controller to. You could become a controller if the god decides to appoint you as one. The god can also take away this appointment/status like what happened with Iblis. Unlike "jinn"/fantasies, the controllers are part of the hidden. So if you were appointed as a controller by the god, that side of you would be hidden and to us you would still seem like a regular human being.
Who is Gibreal who is Micheal ? Are they fantasy?
Who are those who come to take our soul and beat on the faces? Are they fantasy? Aren't they real? Who are they who beg for pardon of us from God? Who are they who goes up until the nearest heaven to steal the hearing and they were chased by fire? Are these human fantasy? What relation with them to human?They are controllers. Not all controllers are fantasy. Only Iblis was a fantasy (jinn) which was given the status of controller and then he lost this status when he disobeyed the god.
Who are those virgins whome no men or Jinn touched? Is it unreal fantasy not touched those virgins?
They all Jinn... Once again they all Jinn created by God by fire not by clay...No such thing as virgins. Those are things that humans and the fantasies cannot grasp. This means that those things in heaven are better than anything you can fantasize. It is not all about sex.
How can hell is not literal? Why God need to replace the skin when it is burned? Why there need guards of 19 in hell. Is this imagination?
What is day of ressurection if hell is imagination and unreal? Why God says day and night hell is shown to pharoa untill day of ressurection? 4046.. why they wish to ransom earth full of gold to deliver them from hell...
With whome God was furious in verse 711-18? So what was that promise to fill hell whoever followed Iblees? What is the respite iblees got until day of ressurection? So God ordered all the non existing fantasy of human to sujud Adam and one fantasy(iblees) denied? What a joke? Is hell unreal after reading all this?
To say jinn is fantasy of human and hell is not a place but a state of no life no death, you need to deny the day of ressurection and you need to make it unreal...
On that day God questions.. And witnesses are brought and all our records are given to read... Even messengers are questioned.. 5116"And when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen."Hell is literal. What is the worse thing you can imagine? This is hell.
Is the above verse imagination? Or Isa in a real day communicating to God infront of everyone saying that he never said to take him as God.. What a shame on those who said Jesus was God... So hell is no place but state and probably heaven also and day of ressurection also.. All just imagination.. Aren't they? Is that what you want to say? Is that what you understood what Quran says?
Better be with you that understanding.. May God save others from this misguiding..I hope I clarified for you.
Peace,
Ayman