Losing Faith
-
Dear brother GL!
You can choose one option from two given options. Question is, who gave these two options?
Brother jkhan insists that Allah only gave one option and the creature created the otherby itself.
Please clarify!
Thanks and Peace! -
Salam brother jkhan!
We are messing someone else's post, i think!
All you are saying is that the creatures were supposed to DO but they chose not to vice versa. So the malfunctioned cteatures were thrown on earth instead of repairing them. Now they are supposed to repair themselves otherwise they would be thrown in hell. And that's what my tiny brain is unable to accept.
Peace!Peace.. Tmtt...
We apologize if we mess this topic of losing faith... But I don't think we are going off topic... Are we? It befits to the topic.. I guess..
Now you have come to the right spot bro.. Your tiny brain + heart is not tiny as you think... God has given mighty power to it... Why did you say tiny brain not allow to accept it... While that is the same tiny brain which allows you to accept things.. Right?. So it is not God which makes you to accept and deny.. But self.. What you accept and deny, decides the evil and good..
Okay.. let's turn to the subject.. They were not thrown on earth with anger... But with immense respect and mercy and all resources coupled with guidance ... What did God say to Adam... Get down to earth but He will keep sending guidance and whoever follows it, is successful...
All these after we betrayed our own Creator even after clear order of not to do what is supposed to be not to do...
Right path is instinct very much inborn...You are stubborn that evil is from God... No way.... Not at all..
You try to define human as he doesn't know anything and innocent and God only infused evil... That's super bizzare...Leave God aside for a moment... Why all human hate evil and loves good for self? This is very innate... Even the evil person loves good for himself... He does all the evil but he wants all good things in his life...
Even good person loves all good things in life while he hates evil things...
So, natural instinct of evil person and good person is inclined towards good.. That's incontrovertible.. But, to achieve those good things to life, people choose evil ways except pious people...That's what our father Adam did and failed.. He listened to Satan and loved immortal or malak status and opted evil way which is prohibited...
God didn't do any single evil act but all evil acts are done by men and Jinn... Human and jinn were created with freedom but God preferred for them God's path..
What is evil in fact? Evil is something that is a good act but not when prohibited... Am i looking funny in explaining this way... But that is the truth... Take any evil act... All are good things when not prohibited ...
*Can you perform sex... Yes.. But if you perform it without marriage that's evil...
-
let's take Adam's evil.. Can he eat fruits.. Yes.. But not that tree..
-
can you kill a person.. Yes.. For just reason.. But not innocent...
-
can you take / use money.. Yes. But you can't steal it..
-
Can you worship God.. Yes.. But not another god.. That's evil..
-
can you marry.. Yes.. But not your sister..
-
can you do business.. yes.. But not cheating business
-
can you help others.. Yes.. But not for bad course..
-
can you be witness.. Yes.. But not Lieing..
-
let's take Quranic story.. Fishing is allowed.. But not on Sabbath.. Is fishing evil or when prohibited it is evil?
Evil is prohibited... Doing the prohibition is evil in the eyes of God... Obey God... That's all
To repair / rectify that was not the place for them... To repair earth is ideal destination... With proper warning and hardship .. In Janna only those who repaired will live in future and now those who don't betray are living (malak) ...
If God let Adam and iblees and his gang to live in the super luxury where they were indulging in even after their betrayal.. Do you think it is right decision? .. Do they deserve... Or do you think they repair and obey next time... No... They will repeat... Coz they will find God weak and careless and blindly forgiving.. So while enjoying comforts of luxury life, still betray the one who gave it consistently while malaika keep adhering to God constantly ... That's not fair to malaika then.. Do you think all knowing God is such a nonsensical to let it happen so...
God took the right measure .. Gave freedom and let them live on earth for sometime... If Still not able to repair then worst is the outcome.. God never breaks His promise... -
-
I appreciate the response, but reading the Quran won't answer the questions raised in my first point. The Quran saying 'this book is the word of God and not one word will ever be changed' doesn't change the fact that we don't know how wrote it, when they wrote it, and whether its even the same as what was passed down to the prophet. These are just facts right. We all accept it.
Applying any sort of critical thinking means how can you then rely on the Quran.
Peace blitz999 the opposite is true, applying critical thinking reveals the authenticity.
of Quran Unless you would prefer some personal contact from Allah. All we have is
the book.Absolutely 100%. Because then its about the contents of the Quran, rather then the questions of authenticity of the book itself.
So true, reading Quran and other religious text I find the Quran more real life encompassing.
But thats a moot point, because the argument can be applied to Bible/Torah/etc. What if we find something that is dated to Moses or Jesus time and signed etc. We currently haven't found anything for any of the holy books.
Well as a former Christian, and one who studied the bible they both have just too
many problems with critical thing.So it comes back to the same question. Why should I or you be following a book that's been written a century after the prophets death based on current evidence. Absolutely 100%. Because then its about the contents of the Quran, rather then the questions of authenticity of the book itself.
We should follow instructions of a book because under scrutiny it brings us knowledge
and understandingpeace
-
All these after we betrayed our own Creator even after clear order of not to do what is supposed to be not to do...
Salam!
Let me tell you what I have perceived from all your heavy content. That God created something which was supposed to obey and worship Him but the creature betrayed Him. So it was like 'manufacturer's fault' or the creature was extra smart than the creator. Totally unacceptable for me.
Peace! -
Peace TellMeTheTruth.
To experience life as a "free will" creation of GOD, there are only two options available. Impossible to have any other options
-Accept GOD s authority- nothing can exist by itself and there is no other god/authority to sustain/give life-- Refuse to accept GOD ." God s system/way realm..."
To accept GOD s authority is to accept GOD s conditions/laws/system- i.e The straight path--
To refuse it is to accept other "authority" that does not really exist-illusion/lie- as there is only one GOD. i.e Taghut-corrupt/imperfect...systems.GOD did not create good or evil,love or hate...etc. GOD created creations that manifest/act the good/evil/love /hate...etc. through their own"free will( decisions and actions)
One may argue that GOD created everything that exist and is actioned by GOD s creature ,since GOD created those that are living .But there is no other way to create beings that will have to learn the best way to share life with the CREATOR SUSTAINER OF ALL THAT EXIST.(Unless one creates robots and forces the "good on them-)
In reality,good,evil,love, hate ..etc are abstract things ( they do not exist) they can only exist if actioned/made to reality by the creations choices/feeling /loyalties...etc...
How else can one create beings and give them free will?
Put simply there are only two paths to choose from fro all creations of GOD and there can only be these two on a scale from good to evil with GOD Alone as the perfect good.
MY take brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Salam dear GL!
Very impressive! All I am to say is that Allah knows what He has created. He also knew what His creatures would do/how they would react/or what they would choose. Nothing is without His knowledge and approval. He creates what He wills. He is the one who has set the standard/law.
Humans or Jinns cannot create somthing without His knowledge or permission whether it is good or evil.
Thanks!
Peace! -
Peace TellMeTheTruth.
Yes indeed.
Allah has planned for good and evil.
If you disbelieve, God does not need anyone. But He dislikes to see His servants/creation make the wrong decision. If you decide to be appreciative, He is pleased for you. No soul bears the sins of any other soul. Ultimately, to your Lord is your return, then He will inform you of everything you had done. He is fully aware of the innermost thoughts.
Say, "O My servants who believed, you shall reverence your Lord." For those who worked righteousness in this world, a good reward. God's earth is spacious, and those who steadfastly persevere will receive their recompense generously, without limits.What would Allah gain from the creation? Nothing,Allah is already complete and perfect."
Such is God your Lord. To Him belongs all sovereignty. There is no other god beside Him. How could you deviate (towards evil/Taghut)?In fact Allah s mercy and forgiveness is pulling out many of the creation from evil. Those who start on the straight path with honesty and sincerity will be helped
If God renders one's heart content with acceptance/surrender (to GOD s system)/Submission, he will be following a light from his Lord. Therefore, woe to those whose hearts are hardened against God's message; they have gone far astray.GOD is independent, and does not need anyone s favours "whoever is guided is guided for his own good, and whoever goes astray goes astray to his own detriment"
Anyway brother ,in the end
Proclaim "Our GOD, Initiator of the heavens and the earth, Knower of all secrets and declarations, You are the only One who judges among Your servants regarding their disputes."
May the Lord bless you and guide you.
Peace. -
Salam!
Let me tell you what I have perceived from all your heavy content. That God created something which was supposed to obey and worship Him but the creature betrayed Him. So it was like 'manufacturer's fault' or the creature was extra smart than the creator. Totally unacceptable for me.
Peace!Peace...
Normally in every society, people do say, our decisions leads who we are.. What you accept and what you totally not accept is not relevant to me... It's your choice... But I explain that Evil is not from God...*** Manufacturer's fault...
***Creature is extra smart than Creator ....
It can be manufacturer's fault if the creature is designed to perform only what it was programmed for... Why need guidance if creature is programmed already.. But, Human and Djinns are free will creatures entrusted with some of the knowledges of Creator Himself .. So the creature also can create things on its own... So if the creature can create, it cannot be manufacturer's fault but the bestowed power of creature ... If the creature itself a Manufacturer's fault, how it can create another...
So manufacturer's fault cannot be accepted.. Creature is independent once created..Next point.. Is creature smarter than the creator?..
No... Creature is destined to expire... But the creator never expires... Creator can replace human with another creature... Denying the creator is not smart move coz the final return is towards Him... By denying so, what happened to both iblees and Adam.. They tried to be smarter somehow.. What was the outcome of trying to be smarter than Creator.. Total loss.. Coz The Creator never gave/shared His full authority to anyone...He kept solely with Him... So.. How can creature become smarter... How can the creature take the authority of Creator in their hands... So... Creator is so smart and intelligent and powerful...creature is so weak and fragile... No other option rather than obey the Creator... That's smart decision and why not fruitful as well..Those who considered creature is smarter than Creator only worship the creatures of God instead the Creator... It may look smart for them but how nonsensical it is they won't perceive it...
-
Peace TellMeTheTruth.
Yes indeed.
Allah has planned for good and evil.
If you disbelieve, God does not need anyone. But He dislikes to see His servants/creation make the wrong decision. If you decide to be appreciative, He is pleased for you. No soul bears the sins of any other soul. Ultimately, to your Lord is your return, then He will inform you of everything you had done. He is fully aware of the innermost thoughts.
Say, "O My servants who believed, you shall reverence your Lord." For those who worked righteousness in this world, a good reward. God's earth is spacious, and those who steadfastly persevere will receive their recompense generously, without limits.What would Allah gain from the creation? Nothing,Allah is already complete and perfect."
Such is God your Lord. To Him belongs all sovereignty. There is no other god beside Him. How could you deviate (towards evil/Taghut)?In fact Allah s mercy and forgiveness is pulling out many of the creation from evil. Those who start on the straight path with honesty and sincerity will be helped
If God renders one's heart content with acceptance/surrender (to GOD s system)/Submission, he will be following a light from his Lord. Therefore, woe to those whose hearts are hardened against God's message; they have gone far astray.GOD is independent, and does not need anyone s favours "whoever is guided is guided for his own good, and whoever goes astray goes astray to his own detriment"
Anyway brother ,in the end
Proclaim "Our GOD, Initiator of the heavens and the earth, Knower of all secrets and declarations, You are the only One who judges among Your servants regarding their disputes."
May the Lord bless you and guide you.
Peace.Peace Brother GL..
My concern is only red highlighted part... It is quite easy to utter certain things wittingly or unwittingly...
Do you understand what you questioned? And answered... -
Peace jkhan/
The sentence should be
What would ALlah gain from the creation WHETHER THEY BELIEVED OR DISBELIEVED?In other words "whoever is guided is guided for his own good, and whoever goes astray goes astray to his own detriment"
Hope that clarifies.
You were right to ask me to clarify the statement ,it lacked the context I intended.
Thank you brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace -
Peace...
Normally in every society, people do say, our decisions leads who we are.. What you accept and what you totally not accept is not relevant to me... It's your choice... But I explain that Evil is not from God...Salam brother jkhan!
I understand what you have been trying to explain so far. But problem is that you are stuck with your understanding that Evil is not from Allah. So i assume that Allah has not created everything in this universe. Let know if my assumption is wrong.*** Manufacturer's fault...
***Creature is extra smart than Creator ....
It can be manufacturer's fault if the creature is designed to perform only what it was programmed for... Why need guidance if creature is programmed already.. But, Human and Djinns are free will creatures entrusted with some of the knowledges of Creator Himself .. So the creature also can create things on its own... So if the creature can create, it cannot be manufacturer's fault but the bestowed power of creature ... If the creature itself a Manufacturer's fault, how it can create another...
Here is why I say that you keep on contradict your own statements/thoughts/belief. Allah tells in quran that He has not created humans and jinns but to serve/worship/obey Him. So they are programmed to do so. If they don't then they are malfunctioned products. A guidance is like a manual which comes with almost every product. It tells you how to identify errors and what steps should be taken. If all steps fail then contact the manufacture.
Note that the command of SJD to Adam was given to malaikah once it was well-proportioned سویتہ and even after ruh from the creator was blown into it نفخت روحی.So manufacturer's fault cannot be accepted.. Creature is independent once created..
Adam as a creature is not independent. It requires energy/power in order to get functional. That is why Allah gives Rizq. Allah controls every creature (see 1156)
Next point.. Is creature smarter than the creator?..
No... Creature is destined to expire... But the creator never expires... Creator can replace human with another creature...Expiry has nothing to do with smartness.
Denying the creator is not smart move coz the final return is towards Him... By denying so, what happened to both iblees and Adam.. They tried to be smarter somehow.. What was the outcome of trying to be smarter than Creator.. Total loss..
Nowhere in quran it is said that Iblis or Adam tried to be smart. Iblis was with a view that his creation is better than Adam's. Allah called him as Rajeem - the one who throws useless words or speak carelessly.
Adam forgot the DO NOT command that is why called Insan. Study the verses again.Coz The Creator never gave/shared His full authority to anyone...He kept solely with Him... So.. How can creature become smarter... How can the creature take the authority of Creator in their hands... So... Creator is so smart and intelligent and powerful...creature is so weak and fragile... No other option rather than obey the Creator... That's smart decision and why not fruitful as well..
You keep on contradicting... Once you say Adam and Iblis tried to be smart and chose the other option. and then you say that creature cannot be smarter and that there is no other option except to obey only.
Those who considered creature is smarter than Creator only worship the creatures of God instead the Creator... It may look smart for them but how nonsensical it is they won't perceive it...
Who are those people who think so?
Are you referring خیر الماکرین?Peace!
-
Salam brother jkhan!
I understand what you have been trying to explain so far. But problem is that you are stuck with your understanding that Evil is not from Allah. So i assume that Allah has not created everything in this universe. Let know if my assumption is wrong.Here is why I say that you keep on contradict your own statements/thoughts/belief. Allah tells in quran that He has not created humans and jinns but to serve/worship/obey Him. So they are programmed to do so. If they don't then they are malfunctioned products. A guidance is like a manual which comes with almost every product. It tells you how to identify errors and what steps should be taken. If all steps fail then contact the manufacture.
Note that the command of SJD to Adam was given to malaikah once it was well-proportioned سویتہ and even after ruh from the creator was blown into it نفخت روحی.Adam as a creature is not independent. It requires energy/power in order to get functional. That is why Allah gives Rizq. Allah controls every creature (see 1156)
Expiry has nothing to do with smartness.
Nowhere in quran it is said that Iblis or Adam tried to be smart. Iblis was with a view that his creation is better than Adam's. Allah called him as Rajeem - the one who throws useless words or speak carelessly.
Adam forgot the DO NOT command that is why called Insan. Study the verses again.You keep on contradicting... Once you say Adam and Iblis tried to be smart and chose the other option. and then you say that creature cannot be smarter and that there is no other option except to obey only.
Who are those people who think so?
Are you referring خیر الماکرین?Peace!
Salam.. ..
Don't misunderstand 1156 bro... Destiny of moving creature is in the hands of God.. connection for that to what the creature does... With the freewill what we do throughout the life is the destiny... If God will He can make the destiny to be pleasant or havoc... Of course it is in the grip of God...
I don't contradict bro.. Just you are unable to grasp the depth of what I have written... Ponder peacefully what creation is...
Of course God did create the Earth and heavens and whatever between them.. Originator... And He repeats and still creates...
Do you really have lack of sense to understand that human can create.. Human can't create a single thing what God created... Human can't even create tiny fly which God created.. Can we?
But human can create what human can create.. Do you copy... Do you see the same earth and heavens as God created..
Who created all the buildings and whatever you see artificial on the Earth and heavens ... Is it God? God himself accepts we make things...
For example.. Why worship what you carve.. Did God create what you carve...
Bees... Go build in mountains trees and what they erect... What is what they erect.. Is it God created...
God revealed verses.. And they replaced it for petty prices.. Did God create what they replaced?You are hilarious to say guidance is like a Manual... Bro.. A car operator is human and car comes with manual to guide...
Human is the product and guidance comes from God... Only two items here... Human + guidance..
But.. Your thought.. Car + Manual + human... Without car what is the use of manual.Oh.. Funny... Really feel shame.. You say Adam is not independent and needs energy / power in order that Adam to function...
Bro.. Adam is built with energy power knowledge free will, and life span... No need to program again... So Adam is independent... Coz Adam has brain and heart to program what he wants and what he is capable of.. Not beyond that.
But only needs mercy in the form of guidance... So that Adam won't choose to disobey with freewill... Even after guidance if disobey... That's Adam's business...I used the word smart coz you questioned...
In fact God is smart in our language... Isn't He.. Coz He is not a fool.. For example.. God says.. If they plot we ploy better than that.. How smart that is.. What you call that in your life style.. Definitely I call.. Really smart...
830 " And, when those who disbelieved plotted against you to restrain you or kill you or evict you. But they plan, and Allah plans. And Allah is the best of planners"I hope you get what this manifest verse speaks about...
If what they plot is God's plot as well, why then God plots separately against His own plot ?
Coz what they plot has no connection with God.. They plot with freewill... -
Peace jkhan/
The sentence should be
What would ALlah gain from the creation WHETHER THEY BELIEVED OR DISBELIEVED?In other words "whoever is guided is guided for his own good, and whoever goes astray goes astray to his own detriment"
Hope that clarifies.
You were right to ask me to clarify the statement ,it lacked the context I intended.
Thank you brother.
GOD bless you.
PeacePeace big brother GL..
God guide you me and whom He wills...
I thought you intended what you wrote... It happens sometimes we make mistake in our statements...
God forgive you..
Wish you peace and good health.. -
Salam jkhan!
Human = body + soul/self. Body is the product. Self is the end-user. It needs the manual so that it can maintain connection between body and soul and it could remain in contact with the creator. If you are independent of your God then why pray to Him, why ask forgiveness, why ask for rizq. If you can program yourself then program yourself like plants and create your own food. You need to study quran thoroughly. Your philosophy is illogical and opposite to the quran. Do not get stuck with it. You believe in an All-knowing God who does not know what His creature is capable of, which is independent and doesn't need God. This creature can create new creations without God's knowledge and permission. Nothing happens without His اذن or امر
You cannot guide yourself, it is Allah who guides.
Peace! -
Salam jkhan!
Human = body + soul/self. Body is the product. Self is the end-user. It needs the manual so that it can maintain connection between body and soul and it could remain in contact with the creator. If you are independent of your God then why pray to Him, why ask forgiveness, why ask for rizq. If you can program yourself then program yourself like plants and create your own food. You need to study quran thoroughly. Your philosophy is illogical and opposite to the quran. Do not get stuck with it. You believe in an All-knowing God who does not know what His creature is capable of, which is independent and doesn't need God. This creature can create new creations without God's knowledge and permission. Nothing happens without His اذن or امر
You cannot guide yourself, it is Allah who guides.
Peace!Peace brother TMTT
I appreciate your patience and time for this long debate... Let's hope someone benefits including you...
Below your quote... "Human = body + soul/self. Body is the product. Self is the end-user."
Don't separate the human when I called human... Human a person is single.. What it's entity is not I was taking about...
Not necessary for me to state this but I like to give my opinion additionally... I don't quite agree even human = body + soul. But I would like to add to it Energy..
Human = Body(legs, hands heart brain, eyes etc etc) + soul + energy source.. That's my take...Body is not the product... But human being is the product of God...
How can be the body is product and self is end user?... So funny..Your question if human being is independent why pray, why ask forgiveness and rizq etc..
Coz this human being is not the son of God... But creation with limitation and capacity with freewill... Independent doest mean sovereign or Godly or supreme... Just independent within what it can perform.. Independent doesn't mean not destined for death..
Pray coz this independent life will expire and a life hereafter is destined.. Asking for rizq coz.. Creator has an attribute called provider... Whatever we use in this earth is His.. We can't create what He created and we need what He created for our existence and for us to create as well...How can you program beyond human's capacity... Do you think Human can destroy the moon? And will God keep watching?.. There comes the control..
Do you think human being can kill all the human being on earth and will God keep watching...
Just perceive the capacity of human before assign a job.. Creating plants.. Lol..
Did God force you to study Quran thoroughly?.. Is Quran the only source of guidance... -
Peace brother TMTT
I appreciate your patience and time for this long debate... Let's hope someone benefits including you...
Salam brother!
I hope so too. Thanks!Did God force you to study Quran thoroughly?.. Is Quran the only source of guidance...
I would start with your last question first as I think this is the most important aspect of this discussion.
Although Allah's ayats/signs are scattered in throught out this universe. However, I believe that Quran is one of the True and Authentic sources of guidance from Allah Himself. Allah does not force me directly but i feel that I am forced to read the book. Without this book, I was just like a sheep following other sheep and never tried to use my own senses. It opened a new world in front of me, which is so mesmerising to me.Below your quote... "Human = body + soul/self. Body is the product. Self is the end-user."
Don't separate the human when I called human... Human a person is single.. What it's entity is not I was taking about...
Not necessary for me to state this but I like to give my opinion additionally... I don't quite agree even human = body + soul. But I would like to add to it Energy..
Human = Body(legs, hands heart brain, eyes etc etc) + soul + energy source.. That's my take..Body is not the product... But human being is the product of God...
How can be the body is product and self is end user?... So funny..OK. Because self is who chooses evil and body works under its control. If we add energy, then energy is the driving force. So energy or as you said earlier, 'the bestowed power' is driving towards Evil. Right?
Your question if human being is independent why pray, why ask forgiveness and rizq etc..
Coz this human being is not the son of God... But creation with limitation and capacity with freewill... Independent doest mean sovereign or Godly or supreme... Just independent within what it can perform.. Independent doesn't mean not destined for death..
Pray coz this independent life will expire and a life hereafter is destined.. Asking for rizq coz.. Creator has an attribute called provider... Whatever we use in this earth is His.. We can't create what He created and we need what He created for our existence and for us to create as well...Now this is something funny. You ask Allah for Rizq beacuse his attribute is Razzaq. Why don't you ask for His QHR or Azab as it is also one of His attributes. Is this only reason came to your mind or you want to add something?
How can you program beyond human's capacity... Do you think Human can destroy the moon? And will God keep watching?.. There comes the control..
Do you think human being can kill all the human being on earth and will God keep watching...
Just perceive the capacity of human before assign a job.. Creating plants.. Lol..Brother, quran says that everything in this universe is سخرلکم.
So, Man can destroy moon, sun and even this whole universe as it is already destroying other creatures and God keeps watching. Evil has not yet reached its limit.
As Allah being the creator still adding to His creations, therefore, as per your belief, human will keep on adding to its creation, EVIL, and there would be no end.
Peace! -
Salam brother!
I hope so too. Thanks!I would start with your last question first as I think this is the most important aspect of this discussion.
Although Allah's ayats/signs are scattered in throught out this universe. However, I believe that Quran is one of the True and Authentic sources of guidance from Allah Himself. Allah does not force me directly but i feel that I am forced to read the book. Without this book, I was just like a sheep following other sheep and never tried to use my own senses. It opened a new world in front of me, which is so mesmerising to me.
OK. Because self is who chooses evil and body works under its control. If we add energy, then energy is the driving force. So energy or as you said earlier, 'the bestowed power' is driving towards Evil. Right?Now this is something funny. You ask Allah for Rizq beacuse his attribute is Razzaq. Why don't you ask for His QHR or Azab as it is also one of His attributes. Is this only reason came to your mind or you want to add something?
Brother, quran says that everything in this universe is سخرلکم.
So, Man can destroy moon, sun and even this whole universe as it is already destroying other creatures and God keeps watching. Evil has not yet reached its limit.
As Allah being the creator still adding to His creations, therefore, as per your belief, human will keep on adding to its creation, EVIL, and there would be no end.
Peace!Peace..
You are welcome ... I am utilizing second time lock down... Lol
Pls make some constructive criticism or responses.. I feel you have become weak in responding...
Regarding Quran... No comments, coz its your personal wish....and your journey..
I didn't mean energy to be bestowed power... Bestowed power is within human brain knowledge heart vision etc within human..
Energy I meant is external source... Body and soul merely won't make us function... Not complete.. external source is what we get from God's creation.. For example water food oxygen etc... These are energy source... Human is dependant on God.. Body and soul is useless if energy source is missing..
Rizq... I replied only to your question.. You asked about Rizq..
Now you expand it to Azab + QHR.. I don't get what Qhr is...
Look bro... You are independent creature... If you want to ask for Azab you are most welcome to request it... I have God bestowed knowledge that Azab is not something to request.. I only request what is good for me.. That's why human is responsible for what he choose not God.. Funny is your claim... It's like while you have enough animal to hunt, you choose to hunt your own body just coz you have also flesh in your body... I choose the good attributes of God... He is a destroyer... We know He destroyed many a town... If you want you can request your town to be destroyed.. It's your choice...Moon Sun etc...
Don't be super fast.. We are living...you wait and I wait. Let's see human can vanish the moon from sky... Etc etc.. That day I accept there is No God..
God gave freedom.. True.. But not that freedom dude...
You said without quran you look like sheep... But still I feel you are...
Didnt you read in Quran when the Day falls, sun and moon join together... So.. Why don't you ponder that till the last moment moon will shine in the sky.. Didn't you read in Quran.. When the day falls human being will look like intoxicated though they are not.. So human being will live till last day..
So my dear... Use your brain and give way to your heart. Human being cannot destroy the moon sun. Or entire human being..
God is the one one who will end this Earth and Heavens and not human.. No power.. Beyond limit... I wish you have long long life...so you witness something.. That you thought would happen.. -
Peace..
You are welcome ... I am utilizing second time lock down... Lol
Pls make some constructive criticism or responses.. I feel you have become weak in responding...
Salam brother!
You have plenty of time during lockdown while I am at work so unable to write long answers. Furthermore, your twisting and contradicting your own statements and avoid answering without any reference and without any solid evidence. So I have a feeling that this discussion is going nowhere. However, readers would notice all your jugglery.Regarding Quran... No comments, coz its your personal wish....and your journey..
It's ok with me. Np.
I didn't mean energy to be bestowed power... Bestowed power is within human brain knowledge heart vision etc within human..
Energy I meant is external source... Body and soul merely won't make us function... Not complete.. external source is what we get from God's creation.. For example water food oxygen etc... These are energy source... Human is dependant on God.. Body and soul is useless if energy source is missing..
Rizq... I replied only to your question.. You asked about Rizq..
Now you expand it to Azab + QHR.. I don't get what Qhr is...Ok i understand what you meant by bestowed power and energy. But what is difference between enery and Rizq?
Look bro... You are independent creature... If you want to ask for Azab you are most welcome to request it... I have God bestowed knowledge that Azab is not something to request.. I only request what is good for me.. That's why human is responsible for what he choose not God..
So I assume that you never performed or thought of evil.
Funny is your claim... It's like while you have enough animal to hunt, you choose to hunt your own body just coz you have also flesh in your body...
Which claim?
I choose the good attributes of God... He is a destroyer... We know He destroyed many a town... If you want you can request your town to be destroyed.. It's your choice...
So being a destroyer is a good attribute. You are welcome to accept your defeat in this topic.
Moon Sun etc...
Don't be super fast.. We are living...you wait and I wait. Let's see human can vanish the moon from sky... Etc etc.. That day I accept there is No God..Well I wish I do not reject Allah in any case and die as a peaceful muslim.
God gave freedom.. True.. But not that freedom dude...
Why then gave freedom to create EVIL? Lol!
You said without quran you look like sheep... But still I feel you are...
Didnt you read in Quran when the Day falls, sun and moon join together... So.. Why don't you ponder that till the last moment moon will shine in the sky.. Didn't you read in Quran..Where in quran? Give reference.
When the day falls human being will look like intoxicated though they are not.. So human being will live till last day..
I agree with that.
So my dear... Use your brain and give way to your heart. Human being cannot destroy the moon sun. Or entire human being..
God is the one one who will end this Earth and Heavens and not human.. No power.. Beyond limit... I wish you have long long life...so you witness something.. That you thought would happen..It is not my thought. It was concluded from your own comments. Use your eyes before using your brain. )
Peace!
-
Salam brother!
You have plenty of time during lockdown while I am at work so unable to write long answers. Furthermore, your twisting and contradicting your own statements and avoid answering without any reference and without any solid evidence. So I have a feeling that this discussion is going nowhere. However, readers would notice all your jugglery.It's ok with me. Np.
Ok i understand what you meant by bestowed power and energy. But what is difference between enery and Rizq?
So I assume that you never performed or thought of evil.
Which claim?
So being a destroyer is a good attribute. You are welcome to accept your defeat in this topic.
Well I wish I do not reject Allah in any case and die as a peaceful muslim.
Why then gave freedom to create EVIL? Lol!
Where in quran? Give reference.
I agree with that.
It is not my thought. It was concluded from your own comments. Use your eyes before using your brain.Peace!
Peace...
Once you are busy.. You won't be able to think in proper way... So it is unfair i debate with you coz.. I am totally free from work since couple of weeks time... But occupied in gaining knowledge..
All your questions and comments in this thread either I have answered already or you don't understand or not read Quran in its entirety... Since you ask me to show about moon and sun verse..
But I only choose to answer regarding Destruction...
God is all capable... But not unfair... God is the just.. Since you claim you accept Quran, haven't you ever read God saying He is just and not wronged to Human but they only wronged themselves ..
God destroyed nations after completely warning with messengers or signs or miracles according to Quran... But they rejected after things are very clear out of arrogance... What's wrong in punishing the rebellious people... Just be human.. Don't judge God...11101 "And We did not wrong them, but they wronged themselves....."
Let me take a break from you allowing you to concentrate on work and your other routine .. Keep seeking knowledge in Quran ... God bless you.. My pleasure in debating with you ..
O! By the way.. I don't debate for readers positive comments and to judge me.. But I debate Just to speak the truth... If they find me I am juggler as you say.. It's their choice.. handshake ..
-
Peace...
Once you are busy.. You won't be able to think in proper way... So it is unfair i debate with you coz.. I am totally free from work since couple of weeks time... But occupied in gaining knowledge..
All your questions and comments in this thread either I have answered already or you don't understand or not read Quran in its entirety... Since you ask me to show about moon and sun verse..
But I only choose to answer regarding Destruction...
God is all capable... But not unfair... God is the just.. Since you claim you accept Quran, haven't you ever read God saying He is just and not wronged to Human but they only wronged themselves ..
God destroyed nations after completely warning with messengers or signs or miracles according to Quran... But they rejected after things are very clear out of arrogance... What's wrong in punishing the rebellious people... Just be human.. Don't judge God...11101 "And We did not wrong them, but they wronged themselves....."
Let me take a break from you allowing you to concentrate on work and your other routine .. Keep seeking knowledge in Quran ... God bless you.. My pleasure in debating with you ..
O! By the way.. I don't debate for readers positive comments and to judge me.. But I debate Just to speak the truth... If they find me I am juggler as you say.. It's their choice.. handshake ..
Salam brother!
We both know and the readers also know that we are debating in order to find the truth and clear guidance.
I would just like to discuss bold parts above, especially the second one.
First bold part
I know the verse 759 but when you used word 'join' i asked the question. Since, for 'joining', there is the word ضم used in Arabic while the word جمع is used in this ayah. This is another topic of discussion so lets leave it for now.
Second bold part
11101 is talking about those who called upon deities other than god. This does not fit with Adam and Iblis.
Bring some other evidence. Thanks!
Peace!