Losing Faith
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Dear jkhan!
Since you have enough time available, therefore, I would request you to compile a summary of our discussion so far. Hope it would be helpful for us to conclude the matter and also for readers. Please focus on those points which are raised by brother blitz in his/her original post. Thanks!
Peace -
Do we have a creator besides Allah? nope
3962 Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is, over all things, Disposer of affairs.
478 If any good reaches them, they say, “This is from Allah,” but if any evil befalls
them, they say, “This happened because of you.” Say “All things are from Allah.”
What is wrong with these people that they do not understand any word?)3962 Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is, over all things, Disposer of affairs.
peace
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I have an example
"GOD is the One who creates for you, from the green trees, fuel which you burn for fire/ light."
Of course One can argue that the fire is created by GOD, Yet knows to stay away from it in case he burns.
Are things not that simple?
If things (Yes you say GOD created them all) are harmful for you ,( And you have been clearly warned about them--doing them,getting involved in them...-in the message from GOD),just stay away-Or try your best to stay away- from them.Me, I am absolutely amazed by my creation and grateful for being created. Yet I question my Creator and I forget that I was nothing before that.
I need to reflect and acknowledge my Creator more
Is not the One who created the heavens and the earth able to recreate the same? Yes indeed; He is the Creator, the Omniscient.Credit where all the credits should be due
Therefore, glory be to the One in whose hand is the sovereignty over all things, and to Him you will be returned.*May be this does not answer questions for some folks, but some folks keep turning into ardent enemy of the Creator forgetting their own creation from a single cell!!
May be some folks really think they are justified ,they are entitled to their own choices and decisions.
All challenges from humans are easy for GOD. Keep them coming.
GOD is also waiting for all of us humans on the promised day
On that day, no soul will be wronged in the least. You will be paid precisely for whatever you did.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
Dear jkhan!
Since you have enough time available, therefore, I would request you to compile a summary of our discussion so far. Hope it would be helpful for us to conclude the matter and also for readers. Please focus on those points which are raised by brother blitz in his/her original post. Thanks!
PeacePeace...
I can't conclude anything.. And advise not to conclude either... Just keep seeking knowledge and obey your Lord with what you understand ... God guides... QURAN has concluded everything just try to perceive it with the help of God... I debate Just to expose things and give an idea... People are knowledgeable to choose what is right... By I am summarizing nothing will conclude... Keep faith in God and pave the way for truth -
Do we have a creator besides Allah? nope
3962 Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is, over all things, Disposer of affairs.
478 If any good reaches them, they say, “This is from Allah,” but if any evil befalls
them, they say, “This happened because of you.” Say “All things are from Allah.”
What is wrong with these people that they do not understand any word?)3962 Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is, over all things, Disposer of affairs.
peace
Peace brother Hawk...
Do we have a Creator besides Allah? That's your question... Same answer I gave to TMT.. Just try to grasp what creation is when it comes to God.. How God creates..
He says Be and it is.. Do human or Jinn have that quality.. No..
He creates from out of nothing.. Do we have that quality.. No...
He created everything earth and heavens... Was there anyone before Him to create? So there is No creator but God...Just come to the point... So why He created and what He created.. Who is this human and jinn and why we are special and why God only test is and only punish us not any other creature out if what He created... Imagine...
Coz we have been given some of His knowledges... We human can rule the earth by that knowledge by controlling all other creatures...That knowledge and freewill makes human to change this world from how it looked the it was created... No other creature can do so. They only live as they were programmed...
Couple of verses you brought let me explain in case you took it wrong..
3962... He created everything.. Agree.. He conrols the affairs of what He created... For example blow the wind and send the clouds and make it rain.. He is doing His responsibility.. He is not doing our job. President controls the nation and not come our home clean the dirty dishes..
If God controls our own affair.. He would have let everyone on right path. But He kept away from it.. Given freewill...478 .. Easy to get deceived by this verse if blinded... Or manipulate to claim God created evil..
Don't forget the cream and the essence of the verse.. BEFALLS... God can make things to happen on us...
For example He may wish to make us rich.. That's Falling Good.. Opposite to it He may make us poor... That's befalling of Bad thus making the life mesmerized.. Coz He is the Giving and Taking back...
He may give us a child.. Befalling good. He may make the child to die. Befalling bad evil.
Life is test not Janna...
Befalling bad from God and creating evil has huge difference..For example..
God creates/ created Hell.. He created men and Jinn.. And He puts most of us in Hell.. God created Hell, but who booked the ticket to hell.. Is it God who created the booking for us? No. We created the booking to hell..Would He create earth and heavens without human on it... Would He re-create earth and heavens without Human on it? Once recreated will there be freewill? No.. It's all God's pleasure and we will live but pleased... Any doubt about my last question...
11101 verse is more than enough to this long debate... But they failed to perceive it...
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Just come to the point... So why He created and what He created.. Who is this human and jinn and why we are special and why God only test is and only punish us not any other creature out if what He created... Imagine...
Dear jkhan!
You are looking at things from only one angle. Not only human and jinn are accountable but every creature would be accountable. Other creatures are also doing تسبیح and صلاۃ. They are امم LIKE us. سبع predators would also be accountable. Sun and moon would also be accountable. Stars and trees are also doing سجد. Stars are there for our guidance but they also fall/follow rheir desire ھوی.He conrols the affairs of what He created... For example blow the wind and send the clouds and make it rain.. He is doing His responsibility.. He is not doing our job. President controls the nation and not come our home clean the dirty dishes..
If God controls our own affair.. He would have let everyone on right path. But He kept away from it.. Given freewill...Hasn't He created us? Isn't He controlling our affairs? Why He is doing the job of wind, cloud and rain? Why not let them do their job for what they have been created? This is how you contradict your own idea. Every creature has a free-will. When amanah given to mountains and the Earth they refused ابی just like iblis refused ابی.
For example..
God creates/ created Hell.. He created men and Jinn.. And He puts most of us in Hell.. God created Hell, but who booked the ticket to hell.. Is it God who created the booking for us? No. We created the booking to hell..You need to ascertain first that HELL is a good creation. Was it created before or after human birth? Who has promised to fill it and told that it is a bad/evil place for poor creatures like humans, jinns and حجارۃ?
Peace! -
Peace brother Hawk...
Do we have a Creator besides Allah? That's your question...
Peace jkhan, not a question if you noticed the nope
Just come to the point... So why He created and what He created.. Who is this human and jinn and why we are special and why God only test is and only punish us not any other creature out if what He created... Imagine...
Coz we have been given some of His knowledges... We human can rule the earth by that knowledge by controlling all other creatures...What is your understanding of 3372 ?
3372 Indeed, we offered the Trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains,
and they declined to bear it and feared it; but man bear it. Indeed,
he was unjust and ignorant.peace
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Dear jkhan!
You are looking at things from only one angle. Not only human and jinn are accountable but every creature would be accountable. Other creatures are also doing تسبیح and صلاۃ. They are امم LIKE us. سبع predators would also be accountable. Sun and moon would also be accountable. Stars and trees are also doing سجد. Stars are there for our guidance but they also fall/follow rheir desire ھوی.Hasn't He created us? Isn't He controlling our affairs? Why He is doing the job of wind, cloud and rain? Why not let them do their job for what they have been created? This is how you contradict your own idea. Every creature has a free-will. When amanah given to mountains and the Earth they refused ابی just like iblis refused ابی.
You need to ascertain first that HELL is a good creation. Was it created before or after human birth? Who has promised to fill it and told that it is a bad/evil place for poor creatures like humans, jinns and حجارۃ?
Peace!Peace...
One angle? That's your prejudiced perception about me... I know my knowledge and my limit...
All creatures makes this a world.. That's true.. I am not here to deny it..
But you failed to grasp who is human being... Human being is such a creature who is bold enough to claim that God has a son and the one who accepted the amanah .. No any other creature did... And will never.. Continue reading pls.. ..
God says I didn't create this earth and heavens in vain... And allowed human to consume all living creatures as food apart from exempted.. Don't you see the importance.. And God says almost the Earth and heavens shook on what these human utter..1988-90 " And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.Indeed you have brought forth a terrible EVIL thing.The heavens may almost be rent thereat, and the earth cleave asunder, and the mountains fall down in pieces,
All these severe reactions of almost entire creation is coz of what? Coz of human being and its violation...
Why should they react so? Is it coz they like evil? Or vice versa.. If God created evil inside human why earth heavens and mountains furious...Second part of your thread... Don't ask from God WHY...why you do this.. Do this way and that way... Are you more knowledgeable than God to advise ? He is doing His Duty... I am really sorry about you and your thinking pattern... Do you think it is automatically happens.. No.. God functions them all.. That's how He handles affair... For example if I keep night continuous till day of ressurection who will bring Day... So.. Night and day has no control of their own but God controls... Is it God who makes it grow a seed or is it on its own.. No... God controls... He can make it futile.
Of course Hell is a good creation... Denying the creator not being reforming after all evidences are on this earth and heavens... What human thinks.. Is he superhuman... Human and jinn totally deserved to punished... Since its humans own decision to choose betray good path so that falls into evil..
You don't use your common sense.. You repeat in different ways..
Look bro.. We don't hear any story before iblees's denial any violation.. Jinn are before human.. Then Adam as first human.. He also did violate later..
But who initiated?.. Iblees... Until God decided to create Adam, iblees willingly or unwillingly was obeying God... But all twisted with the creation of Adam.. So.. You want God to agree to iblees and let him not sujud.. So problem over.. Who is God? Is it Iblees God to change the decion of God? Who is the creator of iblees.. You want God to surrender iblees's decision?... How poor your thoughts..Let's turn to point.. Without anything of God's evil or wrong iblees himself decided to be againat God... Didnt God keep him as malak and the status what he was in.. Does he want more by force?
So iblees didn't give up.. Did Allah create a hell all of a sudden and put him in.... No.. God decided creature of human beings..and no reverse gear coz of iblees's opposition .. But not punished iblees.. Gave him respite.. Accepted his challebge..
Now God knows He has got an enemy... God's path is pure... So what would enemy do.. Now things are settled rest of Malika agreed.. Now God gives super luxury life to Adam but with a condition.. God will never control Adam.. If God wants to control Adam He won't add condition but He would have controlled Adam when Satan duped.. God didn't control Adam and let Adam to choose what his free will propel him to choose... But clearly warned Don't DO.. What Adam probably thought .. God is just old man keep advising.. Let me do what I want.. He forgot he was nothing to mention but created and gave respect and luxury..how can he deny his Creator ...
These are two points of violation in jinn and human... For both they themselves responsible.. They wronged themselves and God wronged them NOT.. Like the verse 11101 states.. It is so common to anyone... If we do a wrong thing.. It is our wrong not God made us to do wrong.. God clearly keeping away from accepting the wrong of human on his head..Warning is required to curb evil or wrong...
For example.. Warning.. "Electric fence.. Don't touch " so all Jinns woukd have been warned when they were created and guidance woukd have been manifested.. Like God doing to human..
So.. God made decision first of all on Iblees after his violation.. Not before his violation.. I will fill hell you(iblees) and those who follow you.. It means those who deny God.. So simple... Hope He will create a hell in the future and keep his promise... But God knows.. It is must to keep promises when promised for good things.. For example Janna.. can't break.. But it is not must to keep promises that promised to punish.. God is Forgiver.. Let's wait and see... What He decides on the day of judgement.. -
Peace jkhan, not a question if you noticed the nope
What is your understanding of 3372 ?
3372 Indeed, we offered the Trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains,
and they declined to bear it and feared it; but man bear it. Indeed,
he was unjust and ignorant.peace
Peace..
Yes it is a question..coz you used? But you answered with nope...but for readers it is a question... And answers of readers may be different to your nope...hope you get me...I hope you brought this verse 3372 TI indicate that human was created ignorant and unjust... But human BECAME ignorant and unjust after accepting amanah.. That's my take... If you brought this verse for any other purpose in this topic pls explain... I can't guess what is in your heart
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Salam jkhan!
When was amanah accepted by human? After eating from الشجرۃ or before it?
Peace! -
Peace..
Yes it is a question..coz you used? But you answered with nope...but for readers it is a question... And answers of readers may be different to your nope...hope you get me...Peace good brother I did not intended to confuse you by answering
my own question, with a nope it's an American English thing.My question is who created evil?
peace
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Salam jkhan!
When was amanah accepted by human? After eating from الشجرۃ or before it?
Peace!Dear brother Hawk an TMT
What in fact is Amanath... One gives to another with full of trust... The one who accepts it should not betray by any means.. ...
Do you notice God offered / presented the Trust / Security to Heavens Earth and mountains... But they REFUSED... Do you notice the interesting point here? REFUSAL... but God didn't mind it.. On earth we can refuse God.. Normally No creature can refuse what God says before that . That's what we noticed in the case of Iblees and Adam... Even before creation.. God called Earth and heavens when it was smoke.. 4111.. Even unwillingly creature had to obey orders.. But they came willingly...
But here in 3372 Three of them refused.. But God didn't mind it strangely .. And But human accepted what they refused... Did God present/offer to human or They agreed once they refused spontaneously .. Why they(3) refused? Coz once accepting a Trust from God you can't make a slightest of denial.. And they FEARED... Reason for denial was FEAR in them to hold it.. coz they don't want to betray.. But human didn't fear the outcome.. But failed to keep the trust... As we clearly see as of now...
When actually this could have happened?
7172 may be helpful to perceive it...
Somehow We have accepted to God's question... Am I NOT your Lord? 'Yes' You are was the answer.. That's why I always believe... Soul is always living though body dies.. For example where are the souls of our ancestors now... Where are the souls of those who are to be born next... They all with God... Coz God says when we die we return to him.. Body is definitely not going to him.. That's so manifest...
So when did we agree both 3372 and 7172...
Is it after Human body was created or before.. Why human is so important to God.. Isn't it coz we accepted His amanah? Not even malaika accepted it.. But only human..
Very crucial point to ponder deep is why God was NOT angry when they (heavens earth mountains) refused His offer... Why in the first place God wanted to give this offer? If no one accepted then no one to blame... Coz God is not against anyone who refuse it.. Coz God knows whoever refuses is full of FEAR in God.. But human didn't fear God.. Even on this case God didn't force human to accept anything.. We ourself agreed to amanah even if we refuse God would not have mind it... Like He did to others... Had we refused we would have been feared to God.. That's why the greatest trigger was not from Iblees but we ourselves.. But out of us, there's definitely some (believers) who keep the amanah as they promised... They are those who didn't fear God's offer and accepted and they committed in accomplishing it.. That's why those will be very near to God in Janna..
that's my understanding... -
Peace good brother I did not intended to confuse you by answering
my own question, with a nope it's an American English thing.My question is who created evil?
peace
It's okay...
Regarding who created evil pls read from the beginning... I hope I have replied my take... If you are against it.. Let me know your concerned points...
Thank you.. -
Dear jkhan!
I had a simple question that which event took place first. It could be answered in a few words. Sorry to say that I could not find a direct answer in your whole speech.
Peace! -
It's okay...
Regarding who created evil pls read from the beginning... I hope I have replied my take... If you are against it.. Let me know your concerned points...
Thank you..Peace my brother, in your reply I did not see an answer to " who created evil".
If I missed it I apologize.peace
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Dear jkhan!
I had a simple question that which event took place first. It could be answered in a few words. Sorry to say that I could not find a direct answer in your whole speech.
Peace!Peace..
You want me to give my personal conviction away from Quran... So sorry... Whatever I spoke is mostly what I understood QURAN... Within that..You give your response to your same question since you say you don't feel like sheep anymore coz of Quran.. You must be having an answer right?
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Dear jkhan!
I had a simple question that which event took place first. It could be answered in a few words. Sorry to say that I could not find a direct answer in your whole speech.
Peace!Let me tell you.. Even it is before or after it won't make any difference... Just try to understand what Amanath is before trying to question when it happened... That's appropriate ...
Be it before or after human only responsible for his evil.. -
Peace..
You want me to give my personal conviction away from Quran... So sorry... Whatever I spoke is mostly what I understood QURAN... Within that..You give your response to your same question since you say you don't feel like sheep anymore coz of Quran.. You must be having an answer right?
Salam!
Yes, I do have an answer and you know that also but you have an opposite point of view and you want to be stuck what suits your desires.
Peace! -
Let me tell you.. Even it is before or after it won't make any difference... Just try to understand what Amanath is before trying to question when it happened... That's appropriate ...
Be it before or after human only responsible for his evil..Salam!.
This does make a difference. It would set the meaning of کان.
Adam کان became ظلوما کفورا once he accepted Amanah?
OR
Adam was already ظلوما کفورا at the time of accepting Amanah.
Hope I made my question easier.
Peace!