I am going to apostate

huruf

peace huruf, yes evident in one of the shortest chapters.

1030 بسم bismi/in name الله l-lahi/the god الرحمن l-rahmani/the almighty الرحيم l-rahimi/the merciful
1031 والعصر wal-asri/and/by the epoch
1032 ان inna/indeed الانسن l-insana/the humankind لفي lafi/surely in خسر khusrin/loss
1033 الا illa/except الذين alladhina/the ones امنوا amanu/believes they of وعملوا waamilu/and work they of الصلحت l-salihati/the righteous وتوصوا watawasaw/and exhort they of بالحق bil-haqi/in the truth وتوصوا watawasaw/and exhort they of بالصبر bil-sabri/in the patience

Thank you for bringing up this sura. It is indeed uplinfting and comforting.

Salaam

jkhan

peace huruf, yes evident in one of the shortest chapters.

1030 بسم bismi/in name الله l-lahi/the god الرحمن l-rahmani/the almighty الرحيم l-rahimi/the merciful
1031 والعصر wal-asri/and/by the epoch
1032 ان inna/indeed الانسن l-insana/the humankind لفي lafi/surely in خسر khusrin/loss
1033 الا illa/except الذين alladhina/the ones امنوا amanu/believes they of وعملوا waamilu/and work they of الصلحت l-salihati/the righteous وتوصوا watawasaw/and exhort they of بالحق bil-haqi/in the truth وتوصوا watawasaw/and exhort they of بالصبر bil-sabri/in the patience

Peace NWQ...

Bit off-topic but I would like to ask opinion..

Do you take this watawasaw as Exhort /Enjoin only... But for me this watawasaw is perfectly giving sense as inherit...
One believe, and do good deeds and inherit to himself with truth and patience ...if we don't enjoin, are we at loss? Just asking... What is you or opinion and others...
If I enjoin will others take it as true, how do one know what he enjoin is right.. As we all know there is so many difference of understanding within Quran among believers.. So by enjoining they won't necessarily accept.. Would they?
Inherit for me suits perfectly..

jkhan

Then feel free to quit. Here is the thing, the Qur'an has its limitations. In principles, it can work well to advice your life choices, but its decrees and theories on nature may seem dated and false. This is the cold harsh truth.

There is no flawless religion or scripture, atheism, deism, Islam, Christianity, every position is flawed. I too had my issues last year, and could've left Islam, but I realized that it didn't matter what I left Islam for, I was always going to have to deal with flaws.

And so at long last, I resolved to stay in Islam and just practice it to my taste. This is my advice to anyone thinking of apostasy. I don't let judgmental Muslims bully me into blindly accepting verses or interpretation that makes no sense to me. If anyone accuses me of "transgressing the Qur'an," I simply remind them of the limitations of the Qur'an, such as the passages on science that seem to falsely imply the embryo is a blood clot or that the upper atmosphere is a solid dome.

Peace... Neptin ...

I am not here to advise you or change you... But your path will take you nowhere... Unless you be certain in your way chosen.

I am talking about cold harsh truth what you have written... So literally Quran is false.. That's cold harsh truth in your view.. Can I have 10 example if you have time that prompted to say so.. Except from what you have already stated..

And emphasize on your second point.. There is no flawless scripture. Why you decided so? So you still opted to believe in deity who can't even construct a clear book of instructions... Since scripture is full flaw, So God is something by chance you have made intimate to you and not by fear and necessity?

And the last concern is embryo and solid dome... So you believe the explanation of embryo and solid dome are not going in line with science so you question them so they be mum coz they temp to believe embryo otherwise and no dome as well...
So you accepted science for whatever it says over the verses of Quran... Is that sound right if I say so.
Science is something to be believed when verified.. I don't reject it at all.. For example DNA.. I do believe and I hope that is right thing to believe.. But never forget science is developing and not complete... So... Rejecting God's verses in place developing science... What would you do if science change their mind at a lost time.. Further there are sience that may trick human being into false direction intentionally.. Have you verified their intentions...

So, Where are you heading by having faith in this nature? Do you have any idea?

jkhan

Peace NWQ...

Bit off-topic but I would like to ask opinion..

Do you take this watawasaw as Exhort /Enjoin only... But for me this watawasaw is perfectly giving sense as inherit...
One believe, and do good deeds and inherit to himself with truth and patience ...if we don't enjoin, are we at loss? Just asking... What is you or opinion and others...
If I enjoin will others take it as true, how do one know what he enjoin is right.. As we all know there is so many difference of understanding within Quran among believers.. So by enjoining they won't necessarily accept.. Would they?
Inherit for me suits perfectly..

By the way brother NWQ.. I do completly agree verses which says Enjoin right /good and avoid wrong /bad where word YAmurun is used.. You can enjoin.. That's fine.. Nowhere it is mentioned that we are at loss where YAmurun is mentioned.. And not Truth and patience enjoin.. I hope ..

Layth

Dear Sania,

If I may voice some comments over your concerns

Most of us here identify as "Muslims/Submitters" which is what God named His servants since the days of Abraham (not "Quranists"
This forum is a sounding board for ideas - the posts are not meant to be taken literally and some views are far out there. The articles in the site are more founded in specific verses and would be a better place to get information rather than debate without end;
We are commanded by God to "listen to what is being said, and follow the best of it" (391 - that should always be your compass as you what to follow should there be varying points;
All people who serve God alone and do good work (Jews, Nazarenes, etc.) have nothing to fear (262);
Walk before you run (the Qur'an was revealed in time and over stages - you are trying to absorb it all at once which si creating all of these concerns.

Neptin

What about abortion before the fetus is formed ? When it remains just a mass of cell ?

I don't really know what to make on abortion at that stage. It depend on the stage you determine the human life begins with. I believe biologically, the mast of cells is alive, but so is a single sperm or an egg. To me it's all about playing safe and erring on the side of caution.

I read some of the articles and they said alcohol is only forbidden if it causes intoxication. People can have one glass of red wine and can even use it in food.

Moderate drinking, right? I've considered that opinion before but gave it up because moderate drinking could be a slippery slope to addiction and intoxication.

Other said that Allah made penis and vagina as the sex organ, so it is common sense Allah is only talking about vaginal sex in Quran and others prohibited. Also, there is a verse which said we should avoid indeceny which are both visible and hidden. They claim all kind of sex except vaginal sex and masturbation comes under hidden indecency.

Again, Qur'an did not mention these things. These people just see taboos and activities they're grossed out by and they're finding an Qur'anic authority to ban it. It is a form of religious abuse.

Can you explain 416, isn't it talking about adultery and its punishment ?

OK. I made a mistake, I've been translating the verse wrongly.

As i said i have immense fear of misinterpreting laws of Allah and transgressing against Quran. At the same time it doesn't make sense to me either. I feel like instead of following Something wrong i should follow nothing at all. If monotheism is what the main message of Quran then I already believe in the day of Judgement and that God is one. I feel like the label of muslim is weighing down on me ( in today's time muslim doesn't mean submitter to God. Now it has taken a form of submitter to a specific religion called Islam. Now Islam doesn't just mean submission to God. It means submission to the Quran ). Plus muslims have a long way to go before they let go of arrogance and bullying. The mainstream muslims are sectarians. Forget about hadiths, if I try to explain my opinion on some verse of Quran they would start the name calling. These people have created such a bad image of Islam that i hate being associated with them. I donot fit in a sectarian world and the Quran alone is not doing it for me. I believe in God. I believe that Quran is the word of God. It's just that the words of God is not making any sense to me. I just dont want to end up in hell for abandoning Quran.

Ah, if only I could be any help to you. Just trust your instinct. Try be as honest and rational as you can and leave the rest to fate.

Neptin

Peace... Neptin ...

I am not here to advise you or change you... But your path will take you nowhere... Unless you be certain in your way chosen.

I am talking about cold harsh truth what you have written... So literally Quran is false.. That's cold harsh truth in your view.. Can I have 10 example if you have time that prompted to say so.. Except from what you have already stated..

I didn't say the Qur'an is false. I said there are certain verses that haven't aged well, verses that our accumulated body of knowledge contradict or do not verify. Now, as Muslims we may insist the verses have to be correct because the Qur'an is a divine text, but if a neutral reader is unable to reach the same conclusion, then we have a huge problem.

If you want examples of these verses, just type "Errors in the Qur'an" in Google search box and start from there. Listen to some few exMuslims and Islam critics.

And emphasize on your second point.. There is no flawless scripture. Why you decided so? So you still opted to believe in deity who can't even construct a clear book of instructions... Since scripture is full flaw, So God is something by chance you have made intimate to you and not by fear and necessity?

No. To me it is all about pragmatism. I can have doubt on accuracy of certain verses while at the same time appreciating the wisdom and teachings of other verses that I feel lend me a sense of fulfillment and hope. The notion that you have to reject the entire faith because just one verse is erroneous to you is not part of my philosophy on faith.

And the last concern is embryo and solid dome... So you believe the explanation of embryo and solid dome are not going in line with science so you question them so they be mum coz they temp to believe embryo otherwise and no dome as well...
So you accepted science for whatever it says over the verses of Quran... Is that sound right if I say so.

It's not as so simple as taking what the science teacher says over the Qur'an. It's about the evidence in favor or against the Qur'an. Remember, the Qur'an don't just ask you to believe, it challenges you to verify. And I've had trouble verifying ideas of several verses that explains nature.

So... Rejecting God's verses in place developing science... What would you do if science change their mind at a lost time.. Further there are sience that may trick human being into false direction intentionally..

I think it is pretty illogical to be asking these questions. It would be like asking, "What will you do tomorrow if you learn that meat is bad food?" The Qur'an makes claims, it challenges us to verify these claims from sources outside of it. And that's what I've done so far as honest as I can be. You may say that scientific research publications are lies or fabrications, but the onus is on you to prove that.

jkhan

I didn't say the Qur'an is false. I said there are certain verses that haven't aged well, verses that our accumulated body of knowledge contradict or do not verify. Now, as Muslims we may insist the verses have to be correct because the Qur'an is a divine text, but if a neutral reader is unable to reach the same conclusion, then we have a huge problem.

If you want examples of these verses, just type "Errors in the Qur'an" in Google search box and start from there. Listen to some few exMuslims and Islam critics.

No. To me it is all about pragmatism. I can have doubt on accuracy of certain verses while at the same time appreciating the wisdom and teachings of other verses that I feel lend me a sense of fulfillment and hope. The notion that you have to reject the entire faith because just one verse is erroneous to you is not part of my philosophy on faith.

It's not as so simple as taking what the science teacher says over the Qur'an. It's about the evidence in favor or against the Qur'an. Remember, the Qur'an don't just ask you to believe, it challenges you to verify. And I've had trouble verifying ideas of several verses that explains nature.

I think it is pretty illogical to be asking these questions. It would be like asking, "What will you do tomorrow if you learn that meat is bad food?" The Qur'an makes claims, it challenges us to verify these claims from sources outside of it. And that's what I've done so far as honest as I can be. You may say that scientific research publications are lies or fabrications, but the onus is on you to prove that.

Thank you brother Neptin..
Peace..
I am bit on the weaker side in English.. So I thought you said Quran is false.. But I leave it to the expert readers in English whether you actually stated or not .. For me still your statement is a verdict to claim you said so.. That's what I understood..

You got it wrong dude.. God never said as Muslim, verses have to be correct... That's you mere assumption.. Further we all are neutral readers... We have all the rights to accept the Quran or reject... For accepting and rejecting one has to be neutral and study thoroughly and verify... Then one can take either of the decision.. But for a believer (even before quran) in God this Quran is non but truth that's his faith... I was a neutral reader when I initiated reading Quran.. No huge problem... It depends on each individual's interest... It was like finding medicinal plants in a jungle on your own first time ... Can everyone be successful?

Brother I wanted your example ciz you brought this matter to the table.. I know we can google almost anything.. I wanted to know what your concerns... OK leave that.. I won't dig again that..

Taking part of of the book which makes sense and reject which doesn't make sense is absolutely fine.. I also do that... BUT only human authored book I do so.. But not in God's.. If I find one in God's book and if it is provable to the best of knowledge then I will reject all of His book and Himself as well.. Coz having flaws in a book of Creator is ridiculous... Flaws can only be in human infusion.. Anyhow that's my way.. But in God's book God says why take part of the book and leave others.. So it sounds like there is nothing contradictory in quran..

Evidence in favor of or against the Quran.. Of course we have to coz book challenges so literally God challenges... Verification is key.. But you claim you are in trouble verifying them especially pertaining to nature.. .. You are in trouble doesn't mean that they aren't verifiable ... In time hopefully you will in sha Allah..

It is not illogical brother...but the angle you took is illogical.. Look at the example you brought.. "What will you do tomorrow if you learn that meat is bad food?"
Do you want me to answer it.. Let me do it. I would still eat meat.. Coz I love meat.. For ages it was good for me.. And for generation people do eat them... And scientific point of view they have been recommending eating since it has best protein.. On top of that QURAN has allowed meat(does creator know better or scientist) . If they suddenly say not good it is their concern... And not ours.. Coz they may again say another thing about meat after sometime.. We are not here to dance to tune of their research and development... But we respect a convinced statement from science which they don't change and towards it people have kept faith 100 % ... Like said DNA... It is like finger print..
But embryo or having no dome all their on going research...

Of their publications OR research are verified by all scientists and for people's common sense and not a developing research but confirmed then we need to verify before accepting it.. Why I and 99.9% do accept DNA OR fingerprint .. Coz it is manifest ... No need to prove from our end anything in which they themselves not yet convinced...

I hope I have answered to your all questions.. Though I didn't segregate with your relevant quote..

May the blessings of God be with you..

19_submission

I dont even know in which category i fall. Quranism doesn't make sense to me. Neither does hadiths. While i fully believe that hadiths are anti Qur'an, this Quran alone is not doing it for me. I am not able to find any firm ground here. There is no stability in Quranism. Yall are open to follow any interpretation of Quran and that is i guess is the negative point of this whole movement. I became Ahle Quran to learn the laws of Allah correctly, but this has distorted my faith more than ever. I feel so disconnected from Allah, my faith is totally gone, it's like I know God exists but my belief in it is waning. What do i do, i feel like I am losing my mind. I am so confused and nothing is making sense to it. I feel like I am about to apostate. I read Quran but it doesn't do anything for me. I think the only thing that is stopping me is the fear of hell and say of Judgement. Can yall just tell me if i become a deist or monotheist but donot follow any religion ( not even Islam and Quran ) will i go to hell according to Quran ? I am just tired of not finding any answer from Quran. I just feel like the true religion of God should have a clear message that should resonate with the whole mankind. Quran doesn't calls to my soul with some of its verses. I don't get why would God hate any lgbtq+ ( and i am not here to start any discussion on it, on my last post already someone judged me for it and made me feel that i am looking for excuses to transgress against Quran ), i just dont understand it. Yeah we can use the argument that Allah is using it for test then why not make every person a homosexual and then test them ? Why is Allah unfair to some. Why would Allah call himself fair and just and do something like this.
Then comes the fact that Quran is just not at all clear whether we have to take it literally or not. Again my issue is, is there any set of laws given by Allah or not ?
If Allah is clear in his words why most of the messages are unclear .

What is salat ?
Is alcohol forbidden ?
Is hajj obligatory or not ?
Does god forbid all kind of sex except penis-vagina sex or does all kinds of sexual act is permissible between husband and wife.
Is abortion is haram or is it permissible ?
Is the story of Lut forbidding homosexuality or is it condemning raping and oppression ?
Quran tells you to wear hijab and abaya too or Quran only tells you to lower the garments and cover the bosom ?

These are not the only cases where yall disagree with each other. Quranism has confused me more than the hadiths because at least it was apparent that a man made book would be unclear and full of contradictions but why is that we cannot agree at anything when it comes to the book of God ? I am one step away from having a full mental breakdown. The stress is weighing down on me and affecting me physically, mentally and emotionally. I came to this forum to find answers. I am just left with more confusion and questions. I am tired of following something which doesn't makes sense to me. I love God, i believe in him, i just don't believe anymore that Quran is the answer for me. It is my fear of judgement day only that has been keeping me from finally accepting myself as deist and leaving behind all the religion. I just want to know whether a deist is also considered a believer according to Quran, or am I disbeliever for abandoning Quran but still believing in God ?

Peace be upon you!

I think that you are complicating it more than you are frustrated with it. You have brought up many points, some which are correct and some which are not! Several of the things you have stated and considered as "issues in the Quran; in reality, you did it out of lack of knowledge. Knowledge is the cure for one's ignorance.

Understanding of the Quran can differ between individuals - all the guidance comes from the Almighty only! Therefore, it is vital to study the Quran in its accurate way and deny the doctrine of "interpretations". God alone teaches us the Quran. It can be either very clear and touching to some - or it can be confusing and unresponsive to others. I am one of those who observe the Quran as a holy book. I believe it is the greatest miracle/book that has ever been existent! These two verses from the Quran should (God willing) verify my claims above

The Almighty taught the Quran.

Now, regarding the questions, I will try to answer them to the best of my knowledge, remember that all guidance comes from God alone!

Q1 Am I a disbeliever if I "believe in God and abandon the Quran?".

Answer No, as long as you dedicate your belief and heart to God alone, and live a righteous life; God promises to save you from the retribution of hell. This is per the verse

Indeed, those who believe and those who are Jewish, the Christians and the Sabians - all who believe in God and the Last Day and do good deeds; they will have their reward with their Lord. No fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.

Consequently, you will be classified as a "Submitter" or "Muslim" in Arabic. The Mumi'ns (believers) are those who observe the Quran and follow God's commandments in it, such as the contact prayers (Salat), charity (Zakat) and so on. Islam, the only religion authorised by God (319), is the state of full submission to God and His absolute authority. In that sense, Islam is not a religion exclusive to the Quran, nor is a religion that was first introduced by prophet Muhammad. Islam is the same religion that was prescribed in all previous Scriptures and all previous messengers of God were submitters to God. Those who submit to God alone are Muslims regardless of the tag (Muslim, Jew, Christian) that is above their head. We read in the Quran that even as far back as Abraham, he was neither a Jew nor a Christian but a monotheist Muslim (367).

Q2 What is Salat?

Answer Salat or contact prayers are to be observed daily by a believer (Mu'min). The prayers are a way for the believers to speak to God, or in other words, contact Him. The Salat is a much broad subject. I would recommend that you read about it, this Quranist site covers it all and briefly explains how it should be performed https//www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/islam/pillars/al-salat_(P1192).html

Q3 Is alcohol prohibited?

Answer Shortly said, yes. You can read it about it as well as all the details and the wisdom behind it here https//www.quran-islam.org/articles/alcohol_prohibition_(P1163).html

Q4 Is Hajj obligatory or not?

Answer It is directed to the believers and its advised more than it is "obligatory". You can read more about it here https//www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/islam/pillars/al-hajj_(P1195).html

Q5 Does God forbid all kind of sex except vaginal sexual intercourse or is all kinds of sexual activity permissible between husband and wife?

Answer This can be the thought of some people. However, God did not directly prohibit anal-sex or other sexual performances between husband and wife. God's words are clear, so does his laws and none is allowed to make laws besides Him

A.L.R. These are the signs of the clear Book.

... There is no changing the Words of God.

... We did not leave anything out of the Book

The Word of your Lord has been completed, in truth and justice. None can change His Words. He is the Hearer, the Knowledgeable.

... We brought the Book down to you providing explanations for all things

... This is not a fabricated hadith, but an authentication of what came before it, a detailed account of all things, and guidance and mercy for people who believe.

Shall I seek other than God as a lawmaker when it is He who has brought down to you the Book fully detailed? Those to whom We have given the Scripture know that it was brought down from your Lord with truth, so do not be among the doubters.

In conclusion, when God issues a law, then it is to be declared detailed and straight forward. And nowhere in the Quran can we find that God prohibited it for the believers. Those who believe in the verses quoted above, they should refrain from prohibiting what God did not prohibit as per (6114)!

Q6 Is abortion is haram or is it permissible?

Answer Abortion is forbidden for the believers, you can find more information here https//www.quran-islam.org/articles/part_seven/abortion_(P1593).html

Q7 Is the story of Lut forbidding homosexuality or is it condemning raping and oppression?

Answer This is a broad topic that I have not yet researched. Therefore, I am not to issue any judgements on the subject without proper research. As God commanded the believers

And do not follow what you have no knowledge of. The hearing, the sight and the heart, all these will be questioned for it.

Furthermore, to answer your question "the argument that Allah is using it for a test then why not make every person a homosexual and then test them". God grants distinguished tests to all individuals

... For each of you, We have decreed a law and a method. Had God willed, He would have made you one nation, but He tests you through what He has given each of you. So hasten to do good deeds. To God is your return, all of you, then He will inform you about that in which you used to differ.

Q8 Does the Quran tell you to wear hijab and abaya too or does it only tells you to lower the garments and cover the bosom?

Answer There is no such thing as "hijab" or "abaya" in the Quran. The believers are commanded to dress modesty and not show their breasts and private parts. More information on the subject https//www.quran-islam.org/articles/women_dress_code_(P1150).html

Please note that the punctations like this one "" are quoting a piece of the verse and not the full one, I have not included the full verse in some due to the message/topic being irrelevant to what we are discussing.

Lastly, I would advise you to make a fresh start and learn Islam from the beginning. You seem to have some of the sunna ideologies still stuck in your head. Check out this topic that I have written, in it contains a pdf that will (God willing) shed your light on Islam https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611208.msg431455#msg431455

My Lord, admit me an entrance of truth and let me depart an exit of truth, and grant me from You a supporting authority. 1780

Noon_waalqalami

Peace NWQ...

Bit off-topic but I would like to ask opinion..

Do you take this watawasaw as Exhort /Enjoin only... But for me this watawasaw is perfectly giving sense as inherit...
One believe, and do good deeds and inherit to himself with truth and patience ...if we don't enjoin, are we at loss? Just asking... What is you or opinion and others...
If I enjoin will others take it as true, how do one know what he enjoin is right.. As we all know there is so many difference of understanding within Quran among believers.. So by enjoining they won't necessarily accept.. Would they?
Inherit for me suits perfectly..

peace – property, parents, genes, tribe, etc. we are given i.e. ورث waritha/inherit

411
وورثه wawarithahu/and inherit him/said person ابواه parents dual his/said person
فلامه so to mother his/said person الثلث the third

we exhort, encourage, enjoin, etc., behaviors which is opposite of discourage.

9017 ثم furthermore كان be من of الذين the ones امنوا believes they of وتوصوا and exhort they of بالصبر in the patience وتوصوا and exhort they of بالمرحمه in the mercy

jkhan

peace – property, parents, genes, tribe, etc. we are given i.e. ورث waritha/inherit

411
وورثه wawarithahu/and inherit him/said person ابواه parents dual his/said person
فلامه so to mother his/said person الثلث the third

we exhort, encourage, enjoin, etc., behaviors which is opposite of discourage.

9017 ثم furthermore كان be من of الذين the ones امنوا believes they of وتوصوا and exhort they of بالصبر in the patience وتوصوا and exhort they of بالمرحمه in the mercy

Thanks for your clarification.. So it is only exhort or enjoin for.. That's what I wanted know.. But for me it is inherit a non physical thing towards one...

Yes.. We all know "warith" is inheritance to be correct any tangible physical thing.. For example Janna, book, property land etc.. That's inheritance in quran...but you can inherit certain things which is not physical.. Love, mercy, truth, patience.. This definitely different...
One can never be at LOSS for not enjoining others with truth and patience... True good believers always try to speak truth in their life.. That's fine.. But how can they be at loss if they failed to enjoin truth and patience and mercy...
True believers every action is a direct reflection to others who he is.. His action enjoins to others...
We can enjoin right and wrong to our family friends etc while we be right and avoid wrong...that enjoining between believers is so natural... It is not must we enjoin disbelievers.. Do we? Whether we enjoin/warn or not they won't believe.. It is same.. 26

True believers when they believe in God and do salih good deeds, they automatically turn to be with patience with mercy with truth.. That's what I take from those verses.. Leave it to other readers for their choice... God guide us..

BTW I don't blame your understanding brother NWQ.. Coz that's what you and probably most people's understanding..

ade_cool

I didn't say the Qur'an is false. I said there are certain verses that haven't aged well, verses that our accumulated body of knowledge contradict or do not verify. Now, as Muslims we may insist the verses have to be correct because the Qur'an is a divine text, but if a neutral reader is unable to reach the same conclusion, then we have a huge problem.

If you want examples of these verses, just type "Errors in the Qur'an" in Google search box and start from there. Listen to some few exMuslims and Islam critics.

That is an empty suggestion ...for sure, everyone can search in google "errors in the Qur'an" but from google search result, which ones you are convinced that those are truly errors in Quran. So which ones? Perhaps can you give your top 3 errors in the Qur'an?

good_logic

Peace ade_cool .
Google/internet is the modern "hadiths". We can find anything we want in it,here is my list
Errors in believing there is a God.
Errors in believing there is no God.
Errors in the bible
errors in Qoran.
errors in everything we do as humans.
errors in all religions.
... You make your own list and you will find it if you "google" it.
Actually you can even find errors in "google".

Put it this way, the whole purpose of the human being has errors according to google. That does not mean there are no errors in all things humans.

But if one believes in GOD and believes GOD sent a scripture,surely they EXPECT that scripture to be ERRORLESS !!!!!
Or they do not really believe in either -just lip service-
By definition GOD does not err. or send errors.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

good_logic

I meant to add this most important point
If one finds errors and has solid proof they are errors in any claimed scripture from GOD , then it is not from GOD , it is not scripture and has nothing to do with GOD.
It is simply from other than GOD.
That is if one knows who is GOD and believes in GOD.
GOD bless.
Peace.

Anoushirvan

I meant to add this most important point
If one finds errors and has solid proof they are errors in any claimed scripture from GOD , then it is not from GOD , it is not scripture and has nothing to do with GOD.
It is simply from other than GOD.
That is if one knows who is GOD and believes in GOD.
GOD bless.
Peace.

Peace GL,

A insightful criticism of you opinions though no offense intended, but it is really striking me how your belief is really close to two things

The modern one conspiracy theories. Everything going against the kind of belief (in God) you have, in particular pointing at errors and fallacies in Scriptures, is a kind of conspiracy against this belief.
The ancient one Gnosticsm, which, by the way, was also a kind of conspiracy theory of the ancient way.

You said "That is if one knows who is GOD and believes in GOD."

Seeking the knowledge of God was precisely the purpose of Gnosticism ("gnosis" in greek means knowledge), because Gnostics believed that knowing God and the realm of God was the only way to reach salvation.
Ancient Gnostics believed that angels or jinns, or messenger could stimulate awareness of the God realm, somehow you have replaced those stimulating entities by Qur'an.

Ancient Gnostics also believed that this lowly world was inherently bad and conspired to prevent mankind to reach the knowledge of God and therefore salvation.

I would like to draw your attention on the fact that this is precisely this kind of belief, relying on knowledge of God, that is harshly blamed in Qur'an in numerous verses.

But the mere fact that you draw your belief from Qur'an is a likely indication that Qur'an probably used the same mindset as the Gnostic beliefs it wanted to blame.

Again, no offense intended, just raising awareness.

good_logic

Peace Anoushirvan..
This is very simple logic, if one believes this
God. ( ɡɒd) n. 1. (,Theology) theol the sole Supreme Being, eternal, spiritual, and transcendent, who is the Creator and ruler of all and is infinite in all attributes(All knowing...etc)

Then the above God should be perfect and does not do errors. Or is this not logical to you?

That is what my post was implying.
Just to clarify for you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Neptin

That is an empty suggestion ...for sure, everyone can search in google "errors in the Qur'an" but from google search result, which ones you are convinced that those are truly errors in Quran. So which ones? Perhaps can you give your top 3 errors in the Qur'an?

I already mentioned two in my original post on this thread. One on human embryology and the other on geography. I have only referred him to Google in a bid to get him see there are alternative diverse and contradicting views on the infallibility of Qur'an.

Neptin

Peace ade_cool .
Google/internet is the modern "hadiths". We can find anything we want in it,here is my list
Errors in believing there is a God.
Errors in believing there is no God.
Errors in the bible
errors in Qoran.
errors in everything we do as humans.
errors in all religions.
... You make your own list and you will find it if you "google" it.
Actually you can even find errors in "google".

Well, at least searching on Google is the first step to inquiry. Anyone should know this. After collecting ideas and views on Google, then the next step would be to verify those ideas. So, what is wrong with referring jkhan to Google again?

But if one believes in GOD and believes GOD sent a scripture,surely they EXPECT that scripture to be ERRORLESS !!!!!
Or they do not really believe in either -just lip service-
By definition GOD does not err. or send errors.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Well, everyone is free to have their approach to the scripture. For me, it's about the practical utility.
So, the discussion on what one believes about God and the divinity of Qur'an is really of no relevance to me. I just want to decipher the verses and make the best of what I can of the ancient document, that's it.

Jafar

I am one step away from having a full mental breakdown. The stress is weighing down on me and affecting me physically, mentally and emotionally. I came to this forum to find answers. I am just left with more confusion and questions. I am tired of following something which doesn't makes sense to me.

You are NOT one step away from 'breakdown', you are one step away from finding the answer.
You are one step away from conquering your own FEAR, finding your own path that will make sense to you.
Those who questioned shall find answer...

I love God, i believe in him, i just don't believe anymore that Quran is the answer for me.

That's what God Is.
And that's why Quran is not God.
And that's why the answer will come from God, for those who seek.

It is my fear of judgement day only that has been keeping me from finally accepting myself as deist and leaving behind all the religion. I just want to know whether a deist is also considered a believer according to Quran, or am I disbeliever for abandoning Quran but still believing in God ?

As mentioned above, you are one step away from conquering your own FEAR.
From the day of Marduk, Pharaoh, Baal, Uzza, etc FEAR is how religion / darkness bind it's people to the shackle.
Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad to name a few need to face their own fear to break free.
And you, or anybody else is no different..
Face the fear and you will find your path... nobody share the exact same path, but all path actually lead to the same destination.

jkhan

I meant to add this most important point
If one finds errors and has solid proof they are errors in any claimed scripture from GOD , then it is not from GOD , it is not scripture and has nothing to do with GOD.
It is simply from other than GOD.
That is if one knows who is GOD and believes in GOD.
GOD bless.
Peace.

Faith plays a huge role in deciding.. Coupled with mercy of God unknown to us towards Him.. ..

Let me simplify in my way...
Either Everything is created or evolved... Those are two options to choose... That's vital without any religious book or anceint people's influence..

Based on above two factors people may forge ahead in their exploration ... ..

Choosing Creation or choosing Evolution is only possible with neutral mind with much exertion of thoughts on each and every single thing... You know whenever I observe my epiglottis in the mirror hanging low touching the toung I wonder what would happen if it is not there... So much perfection? For what? Lacking in one single organ or body part is definitely a defect... So human body is perfect for living.. Why and how? Nature cannot create anything... Every living and nonliving thing constitute nature literally.. and non of that has the capacity to create another natural being.. .

Everything evolved once upon a time and be perfect for certain lapse of time and then be extinct one day, doesn't make any sense at all... Never... Coz we all explicitly agree, that We, Human, being an intelligent creature cannot create another object in perfection without comprehensive application of knowledge into it.. Then we create perfect objects.. For example a mobile phone.. It cannot be created by chance... So behind every living and nonliving thing there is a Creator/Designer behind it just simply coz the creature/created object is perfect in design and behind all perfectly designed thing there needs another hand with much knowledge applied.. that's indispensable.. Doesn't that make sense?

Believer in God, I mean the one who chose God cannot come through books initially.. Book can guide and augment one's belief relatively, but I doubt a book can originate a believer in God... Belief is choice born within self at any point of one's life that drives towards searching guidance.. Note at that initial moment he may not perceive he is believer in God.. But he is..

I don't think Quran made me believe in God in the first place.. Talk to your heart all those who believe in God... Is it Quran / other scriptures that made you believe in God in the first place.. Or you approached Quran for guidance and and figuring out to get confirmation ...

For example a believer in God who is Christian...
So for guidance he opted Bible.. But for certain reasons he finds errors in it.. Wisely he leaves the Bible... But he still didn't leave the God... Strange.. He thought bible is from God and he is not satisfied with bible so logically he should leave that god as well.. But he remains in belief of God.. Why? Just Coz he didn't believe in God coz of bible, but he believed coz God let him believe in him.. Once God shown mercy made him belief in Him, how can God let him follow human fabricated book.. Then suppose he chose quran to get guidance... He remains satisfied... Just gave example.. It shows that books won't originate belief in God.. But instead aleady believer in God approaches towards book for guidance...

It's like..
God show mercy and make a soul believe in Him.. First step...

He may wander here and there while having the belief in God unknown.. May do sins etc etc... But God's mercy of believing in Him still in his soul.

So.. At certain point of time in life he gradually approaches for guidance that's to get confirmed his belief...

But to those who never realized God even how much they get close to any book they won't get guidance coz they never believed in God in the first place..

That's my take...