Back to square one with the translation of 4:34?

Sania_Haque

Beat your wives or “separate from them”?

By Arab Christian

(See also the comments of Egyptian Kafir)

I wrote this article in response to the mysterious translation of the verb “darb” (meaning “hit” or “beat” or “strike”) that was presented at many sites that claim to have “modern” (cheating?) translations of the Quran.

Those Islamic sites are actually directed to non-Arabic speakers, because anyone who has good command of Arabic will find those claims ridiculous.

"Men are overseers over women, by reason of that wherewith Allah hath made one of them excel over another, and by reason of that which they expend of their substance. Wherefore righteous women are obedient, and are watchers in husbands absence by the aid and protection of Allah. And those wives whose refractoriness ye fear, exhort them, and avoid them in beds, and beat them; but if they obey you, seek not a way against them; verily Allah is ever Lofty, Grand." (Quran 434 A.M. Daryabad Trans.)

They claimed that this verse didn’t really mean “to beat them,” but rather to "separate from them" or to “strike them out.”

The Agreed-upon Translations of Verse 4.34

Yusuf Ali

"....As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance) For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)."

Pickthal

"...As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great."

Shakir

"...and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Al-Hilali & Mohsin Khan

"....As to those women on whose part you see illconduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great."

Dr. T.B. Irving

"...Admonish those women whose surliness you fear, and leave them alone in their beds, and beat them . If they obey you, do not seek any way against them. God is Sublime, Great."

Muhammad Sarwar

"...Admonish women who disobey (God's laws), do not sleep with them and beat them. If they obey (the laws of God), do not try to find fault in them. God is High and Supreme."

Rashad Khalifa

"....If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme."

Abdul-Majid Daryabadi

"...And those wives whose refractoriness ye fear, exhort them, and avoid them in beds, and beat them; but if they obey you, seek not a way against them; verily Allah is ever Lofty, Grand."

E.H. Palmer

"...But those whose perverseness ye fear, admonish them and remove them into bedchambers and beat them; but if they submit to you, then do not seek a way against them; verily, God is high and great."

Muhammad Ayub Khan

"...And those whose rebellion you fear, admonish them and leave them alone in the beds, and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; God is surely High, Great."

Ahmed Raza Khan

"...the women from whom you fear disobedience, (at first) advise them and (then) do not cohabit with them, and (lastly) beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek to do injustice to them; indeed Allah is Supreme, Great."

Hassan Qaribullah & Ahmad Darwish

"...Those from whom you fear rebelliousness, admonish them and desert them in the bed and smack them (without harshness). Then, if they obey you, do not look for any way against them. Allah is High, Great."

Mahmud Y. Zayid

"...and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Muhammad Asad

"...And as for those woolen whose ill-will" you have reason to fear, admonish them ; then leave them alone in bed; then beat them ;4s and if thereupon..."

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It is amusing to see Muslims quarreling and disregarding all those translations by well-known and world-famous scholars of Islam, and made "their own translations" on obscure sites like Free-Minds.org and Progressive-Muslims.org. It proves nothing but the extreme vagueness of the Quran, to the extent that the scholarship of its finest scholars is currently being questioned.

However, they backed their claim that “darb” has “several meanings” in Arabic by providing some verses, which contain the word “darb,” but with allegedly 10 meanings, 8 of them different than beat and strike (which are both very similar in Arabic)

To travel, to get out 3156; 4101; 3844; 7320; 2273
To strike 260,73; 7160; 812; 2077; 2431; 2663; 3793; 474
To beat 850; 4727
To set up 4358; 5713
To give (examples) 1424,45; 1675,76,112; 1832,45; 2435; 3028,58; 3678; 3927,29; 4317; 5921; 6610,11
To take away, to ignore 435
To condemn 261
8 ) To seal, to draw over 1811
To cover 2431
To explain 1317

The "modern Islamists" searched in all the Quran for verses that contain any derivative of the verb "darb," and compared all their meanings. They concluded that there are 10 meanings of the verb "darb;" each of these 10 meaning will be thoroughly analyzed through the verses supporting them.

After studying all those verses, I found that they all don’t change the meaning of “darb” in verse 434 at all. And the verb “darb” was CORRECTLY understood and translated as “beat.”

In fact, all those verses that include "darb" are actually figurative expressions. For example, "hit the sky" is a figurative expression; NOTHING can literally "hit" or "crash" with layers of gases, it is meant to be understood as "fly high through" the sky. Dishonest Islamists will consider this as a "different meaning" for the word "hit." So they can tell you "I'll hit you," but they actually meant "I'll fly high through you"!!!! YES, this IS their "logic."

What will I do here is going through ALL the verses in this list (hence the article is long), and prove that all of them didn't add a new meaning for the word "darb" when used against a woman (the wife). So please be patient, and sorry for making it so long.

First of all, there is a very important concept that needs to be understood

The meaning of many verbs differ according to the OBJECTS they are applied to. I’ll use the word “hit” in English as an example, which also means "darb."

I will do exactly like those "modern Islamists," and will also get 10 meanings of the verb "hit" in the same way. Those are the 10 meanings I compiled from the verb "hit" (the nouns in the brackets are the objects to be hit)

1-Go through (Road)
2-Click (Mouse)
3-Drink (Bottle)
4-Land (Target)
5-Reach (Market)
6-Press (Brakes)
7-Go (Beach)
8-Fulfil (Spot)
9-Demonstrate (Streets)
10-Win (Jackpot)

Interpretations

1- When someone “hits the road,” it means he “departed” or "went through the road." It surely doesn’t mean he got a hammer and hit the road. Does "hit the woman" mean "go through the woman"?

2- When I say I will “hit the Mouse,” I mean to say I will “click on the mouse.” Does "hit the woman" mean "click on the woman"?

3-When I say he "hit the bottle," what I really meant is "drink the bottle" or "drink alcohol heavily." Does "hit the woman" mean "drink the woman?"

4- When a darts player "hits the target," he didn't get the dart board and break it, he simply shot the dart and it "landed on the target." Does "hit the woman" mean "land on the woman"?

5-When my book "hits the market," it means my book "reaches the mearket." Does "hit the woman" mean "reach the woman"?

6-When I say I'll "hit the brakes," it doesn't mean I'll break the braking pedal, but rather I mean I'll "press on the brakes" to stop the car. Does "hit the woman" mean "press on the woman"?

7-When a family "hits the beach," they didn't fell from the 11th floor and "crashed" into the beach, but they "went to the beach." Does "hit the woman" mean "go to the woman"?

8-When I say its fine but it didn't "hit the spot," I meant to say its fine but didn't fulfil my need. Does "hit the woman" mean "woman fulfiled my needs"?

9-When I say the activists "hit the streets," it means the activists "demonstrated in the streets." Does "hit the woman" mean "demonstrate to the woman"?

10-When I say he "hit the jackpot" it actually means he "won the jackpot." Does "hit the woman" mean "win the woman"?

As you see, each of those sentences containing “hit” had different interpretations, according to the object used in combination with it. Putting in mind all those “different meanings” of the word “hit,” what do you understand when I say “I will hit my woman”?

It STILL has NO other meaning than “I’ll BEAT my woman.”

The difference between, for example, “hit the road” and “hit the woman,” is the OBJECT to be hit, and NOT the meaning of “hit” itself. Maybe a new device, with a name of “Xiner” will be around, and “hitting the Xiner” will mean “power-on the Xiner.” Thus, the meaning of "hit" DEPENDS on the object to be hit. The sentence “hit the Xiner” doesn’t, under any circumstances, change or add a new meaning for “hit.”

This is the “logic” of the so-called “liberal Muslims”

1-“Hit the Xiner” means “power-on the Xiner”
2- Both statements “hit the woman” and “hit the Xiner” use the word “hit”
3- Therefor, “hit the woman” will mean “power-on the woman” or “energize the woman”!

I hope I have clearly demonstrated the irrationality of this reasoning. This is a Non-sequitur argument. The repetition of the word "hit" in the two phrases doesn't make a connection between them, becasue each one of them is in a diffirent expression, and its meaning is understood from its own context, and not the other's. Therefor the conclusion is irrelevant.

The problem here is that they derive the meaning of "darb" from a "packedged" expression. The WHOLE expression gives a single meaning; breaking this expression and deriving new meanings from its verb is not logical. It they see this logical, then they must agree that "I'll hit my woman" in English has 10 different interpretations (Go through, Drink, Click, Land....etc).

It shoud be understood as such

-When the object named “road” is hit, the whole statement means “go.”
-When the object named “Xiner” is hit, the whole statement means “power-on the Xiner.”
-When the object named “woman” is hit, the whole statement means “beat the woman”

Those 10 interpretations that I gave for the word hit are in fact exactly similar to what the Islamic site provided in the verses as “different meanings of the word darb.”

The only way for “hit” to have multiple meanings is when it can be used, more than once, against a human being, and each time with different interpretations; for example, when “hit the woman” is found in the Quran to mean both “beat her” and also “abandon her,” which is not the case.

In addition, hitting part of a human will also not do the job perfectly, because the Quran can simply say “hit your feet” to mean “start walking;” thus verses mentioning the hitting of “ears” and “necks” will be dismissed. Although most of them DO support the meaning “beat,” the verses which mention hitting A WHOLE HUMAN BEING will be our ONLY guide.

What was explained here can be applied precisely in Arabic, as even the expression “hit the road” is found in Arabic as “hit in the land,” which means “travel through the land.” One of the most frequent Arabic expressions is also "hit an example," which means "give an example."

So now, with this understanding, I can start the real work.

Most of the verses in the 10 different meanings given by the Islamic site are using the verb "darb" (hit) NOT against human beings, but rather “hitting the land,” “hitting an example,” “hitting the truth”.. etc. While in the few verses that a “darb” was used against a human being, it meant to “beat” or “strike,” which confirms our understanding of the word “darb” in verse 434.

This is what I'll do I’ll discuss how the meaning of “darb” is NOT CHANGED by its different interpretations in the given verses. I will use the transliteration, and word-by-word literal translation of the statement in blue in each verse, which is the place where “darb” (hit) and its object (i.e. Land) are; and above each verse you’ll find the name of the object being hit. If I encountered in a verse a phrase like this "hit an example," I will literally translate it as is, not as "give an example" like the normal Quranic translations. Although this translation may sound vague, it will make the object to be hit easily identifiable by non-Arabic speakers.

I in fact translated all the verses ONLY TO SHOW that each time "darb" was used and had a different meaning than "beat," it was NOT against a human being, but against other materialistic and non-materialistic objects. And EACH TIME it was used against a HUMAN, it had NO other meaning than BEAT.

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Notes

The verses which mention hitting A WHOLE HUMAN BEING will have their title in red.
I will skip the meanings (2) and (3) that are provided by the Islamic site because they actually CONFIRM that women are beaten, so they will be discussed at the end, after finishing meaning number (10).
You don’t have to go over all the verses. You can read only the first verse in each of the eleven sections and the ones with a red title. I refuted all the verses to make my argument against the “modern” translations complete and comprehensive.

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To travel, to get out 3156; 4101; 3844; 7320; 2273

<- Object Land

O ye who believe! Be not like the Unbelievers, who say of their brethren, when they are traveling through the Earth or engaged in fighting "If they had stayed with us, they would not have died, or been slain." This that Allah may make it a cause of sighs and regrets in their hearts. It is Allah that gives Life and Death, and Allah sees well all that ye do.

Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo la takoonoo kaa|atheena kafaroo waqaloo li-ikhwanihim itha daraboo fee al-ardi aw kanoo ghuzzan law kanoo AAindana ma matoo wama qutiloo liyajAAala Allahu thalika hasratan fee quloobihim waA|ahu yuhyee wayumeetu waA|ahu bima taAAmaloona baseerun

“daraboo” is derived from “darab,” meaning “hit.” “Fee” literally means “in.” “Al-Ardi” means “the land.” Thus, the whole statement daraboo fee al-ardi says “hit in the land” meaning something like “hit the road,” which doesn’t give a new meaning for “hit” (darab) at all.

Also, there was never something like "hit in the sea" or "hit in the city" to mean go through them. "Hit" gives that meaning only when it is against a "land." It's a known expression.

<- Object Land

When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers May attack you For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.

Wa-itha darabtum fee al-ardi falaysa AAalaykum junahun an taqsuroo mina aIssalati in khiftum an yaftinakumu allatheena kafaroo inna alkafireena kanoo lakum AAaduwwan mubeenan

darabtum fee al-ardi literally means “you(plural) hit in the land”

<- Object Grass

"And take in thy hand a little grass, and strike therewith and break not (thy oath)." Truly We found him full of patience and constancy. How excellent in Our service! ever did he turn (to Us)!

Wakhuth biyadika dighthan faidrib bihi wala tahnath inna wajadnahu sabiran niAAma alAAabdu innahu awwabun

biyadika dighthan faidrib bihi literally means "take in your hand a little grass, and strike therewith”

<- Object Land

Thy Lord doth know that thou standest forth (to prayer) nigh two-thirds of the night, or half the night, or a third of the night, and so doth a party of those with thee. But Allah doth appoint night and day in due measure He knoweth that ye are unable to keep count thereof. So He hath turned to you (in mercy) read ye, therefore, of the Qur'an as much as may be easy for you. He knoweth that there may be (some) among you in ill-health; others traveling through the land, seeking of Allah's bounty; yet others fighting in Allah's Cause, read ye, therefore, as much of the Qur'an as may be easy (for you); and establish regular Prayer and give regular Charity; and loan to Allah a Beautiful Loan. And whatever good ye send forth for your souls ye shall find it in Allah's Presence,- yea, better and greater, in Reward and seek ye the Grace of Allah for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Inna rabbaka yaAAlamu annaka taqoomu adna min thuluthayi allayli wanisfahu wathuluthahu wat_a -ifatun mina alla_t_h eena maAAaka waA| a hu yuqaddiru allayla waalnnah a ra AAalima an lan tuhsoohu fataba AAalaykum faiqraoo ma tayassara mina alqur-ani AAalima an sayakoonu minkum mard_a wa_a_kharoona yadriboona fee al-ardi yabtaghoona min fa_d_li All_a_hi wa_a_kharoona yuqatiloona fee sabeeli Allahi faiqraoo ma tayassara minhu waaqeemoo aIssalata waatoo aIzzak_a_ta waaqri_d_oo All_a_ha qar_d_an h_asanan wam_a tuqaddimoo li-anfusikum min khayrin tajidoohu AAinda Allahi huwa khayran waaAA ama ajran waistaghfiroo Allaha inna Allaha ghafoorun raheemun

yadriboona fee al-ardi literally means “they hit in the land.”

<- Object Land

(Charity is) for those in need, who, in Allah's cause are restricted (from travel), and cannot move about in the land, seeking (For trade or work) the ignorant man thinks, because of their modesty, that they are free from want. Thou shalt know them by their (Unfailing) mark They beg not importunately from all the sundry. And whatever of good ye give, be assured Allah knoweth it well.

Lilfuqara-i allatheena ohsiroo fee sabeeli Allahi la yastateeAAoona darban fee al-ardi yahsabuhumu aljahilu aghniyaa mina aIttaAAaffufi taAArifuhum biseemahum la yas-aloona aInnasa ilhafan wama tunfiqoo min khayrin fa-inna Allaha bihi AAaleemun

darban fee al-ardi literally means “a hit in the land.”

I will skip the next two meanings, number 2 and 3, provided by the Islamic site (“to beat” and “to strike”) because they actually CONFIRM that women are beaten, and will be discussed at the end.

To set up 4358; 5713

<- Object Example

“And they say are our gods better, or is he? They mention him not to thee save for disputation. Aye! they are a people contentious..”

“Waqaloo aalihatuna khayrun am huwa ma daraboohu laka illa jadalan bal hum qawmun khasimoona”

ma daraboohu laka literally means “what they have hit for you.” The thing that is hit here is, from its previous verse , is an example.

<- Object Wall

One Day will the Hypocrites- men and women - say to the Believers "Wait for us! Let us borrow (a Light) from your Light!" It will be said "Turn ye back to your rear! then seek a Light (where ye can)! So a wall will be put up betwixt them, with a gate therein. Within it will be Mercy throughout, and without it, all alongside, will be (Wrath and) Punishment!

Yawma yaqoolu lmunafiqoona waalmunafiqatu lillatheena amanoo on uroona naqtabis min noorikum qeela irjiAAoo waraakum failtamisoo nooran faduriba baynahum bisoorin lahu babun batinuhu feehi aIrrahmatu wathahiruhu min qibalihi alAAathabu

faduriba baynahum bisoorin literally means “a wall was hit between them” which is understood as "a wall was stroke between them."

To give (examples) 1424,45; 1675,76,112; 1832,45; 2435; 3028,58; 3678; 3927,29

<- Object Example

Seest thou not how Allah sets forth a parable? - A goodly word like a goodly tree, whose root is firmly fixed, and its branches (reach) to the heavens,- of its Lord. So Allah sets forth parables for men, in order that they may receive admonition.

Alam tara kayfa daraba Allahu mathalan kalimatan tayyibatan kashajaratin tayyibatin asluha thabitun wafarAAuha fee aIssama/-i

daraba Allahu mathalan literally means “Allah hit an example,” which is a very known and daily used expression meaning "give an example." It is important to mention that "darab" is used to mean "give" ONLY when the object given is an example.

<- Object Example

"And ye dwelt in the dwellings of men who wronged their own souls; ye were clearly shown how We dealt with them; and We put forth (many) parables in your behoof!"

Wasakantum fee masakini allatheena thalamoo anfusahum watabayyana lakum kayfa faAAalna bihim wadarabna lakumu al-amthala

wadarabna lakumu al-amthala literally mean “we hit for you the example.”

<- Object Example

Allah sets forth the Parable (of two men one) a slave under the dominion of another; He has no power of any sort; and (the other) a man on whom We have bestowed goodly favours from Ourselves, and he spends thereof (freely), privately and publicly are the two equal? (By no means praise be to Allah. But most of them understand not.

Daraba Allahu mathalan AAabdan mamlookan la yaqdiru AAala shay-in waman razaqnahu minna rizqan hasanan fahuwa yunfiqu minhu sirran wajahran hal yastawoona alhamdu lillahi bal aktharuhum la yaAAlamoona

Daraba Allahu mathalan literally means “Allah has hit an example.”

<- Object Example

Allah sets forth (another) Parable of two men one of them dumb, with no power of any sort; a wearisome burden is he to his master; whichever way be directs him, he brings no good is such a man equal with one who commands Justice, and is on a Straight Way?

Wadaraba Allahu mathalan rajulayni ahaduhuma abkamu la yaqdiru AAala shay-in wahuwa kallun AAala mawlahu aynama yuwajjihhu la ya/ti bikhayrin hal yastawee huwa waman ya/muru bialAAadli wahuwa AAala siratin mustaqeemin

Wadaraba Allahu mathalan literally means “ And Allah has hit an example.”

<- Object Example

Allah sets forth a Parable a city enjoying security and quiet, abundantly supplied with sustenance from every place Yet was it ungrateful for the favours of Allah so Allah made it taste of hunger and terror (in extremes) (closing in on it) like a garment (from every side), because of the (evil) which (its people) wrought.

Wadaraba Allahu mathalan qaryatan kanat aminatan mutma-innatan ya/teeha rizquha raghadan min kulli makanin fakafarat bi-anAAumi Allahi faathaqaha Allahu libasa aljooAAi waalkhawfi bima kanoo yasnaAAoona

Wadaraba Allahu mathalan literally means “ And Allah has hit an example.”

<- Object Example

Set forth to them the parable of two men for one of them We provided two gardens of grape-vines and surrounded them with date palms; in between the two We placed corn-fields.

Waidrib lahum mathalan rajulayni jaAAalna li-ahadihima jannatayni min aAAnabin wahafafnahuma binakhlin wajaAAalna baynahuma zarAAan

Waidrib lahum mathalan literally means “and you, hit for them an example.”

<- Object Example

Set forth to them the similitude of the life of this world It is like the rain which we send down from the skies the earth's vegetation absorbs it, but soon it becomes dry stubble, which the winds do scatter it is (only) Allah who prevails over all things.

Waidrib lahum mathala alhayati aIddunya kama-in anzalnahu mina aIssama-i faikhtalata bihi nabatu al-ardi faasbaha hasheeman tathroohu aIrriyahu wakana Allahu AAala kulli shay-in muqtadiran

Waidrib lahum mathala literally means “and hits for them an example.”

<- Object Example

Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp the Lamp enclosed in Glass the glass as it were a brilliant star Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light Allah doth set forth Parables for men and Allah doth know all things.

Allahu nooru aIssamawati waal-ardi mathalu noorihi kamishkatin feeha misbahun almisbahu fee zujajatin aIzzujajatu kaannaha kawkabun durriyyun yooqadu min shajaratin mubarakatin zaytoonatin la sharqiyyatin wala gharbiyyatin yakadu zaytuha yudee-o walaw lam tamsas-hu narun noorun AAala noorin yahdee Allahu linoorihi man yashao wayadribu Allahu al-amthala liInnasi waA|ahu bikulli shay-in AAaleemun

wayadribu Allahu al-amthala literally means “And Allah hits the examples.”

<- Object Example

He does propound to you a similitude from your own (experience) do ye have partners among those whom your right hands possess, to share as equals in the wealth We have bestowed on you? O ye fear them as ye fear each other? Thus do we explain the Signs in detail to a people that understand.

Daraba lakum mathalan min anfusikum hal lakum mimma malakat aymanukum min shurakaa fee ma razaqnakum faantum feehi sawaon takhafoonahum kakheefatikum anfusakum kathalika nufassilu al- ayati liqawmin yaAAqiloona

Daraba lakum mathalan literally mean “hit an example for you.”

<- Object Example

verily We have propounded for men, in this Qur'an every kind of Parable But if thou bring to them any Sign, the Unbelievers are sure to say, "Ye do nothing but talk vanities."

Walaqad darabna liInnasi fee hatha alqur-ani min kulli mathalin wala-in ji/tahum bi-ayatin layaqoolanna allatheena kafaroo in antum illa mubtiloona

darabna liInnasi fee hatha alqur-ani min kulli mathalin literally means “We have hit in this Quran for every example for the people.”

<- Object Example

And he makes comparisons for Us, and forgets his own (origin and) Creation He says, "Who can give life to (dry) bones and decomposed ones (at that)?"

Wadaraba lana mathalan wanasiya khalqahu qala man yuhyee alAAi thama wahiya rameemun

Wadaraba lana mathalan literally means “And He hit an example for us.”

<- Object Example

We have put forth for men, in this Qur'an every kind of Parable, in order that they may receive admonition.

Walaqad darabna liInnasi fee hatha alqur-ani min kulli mathalin laAAallahum yatathakkaroona

Walaqad darabna liInnasi fee hatha alqur-ani min kulli mathalin literally means “And we have hit in this Quran from every example for the people.”

<- Object Example

Allah puts forth a Parable a man belonging to many partners at variance with each other, and a man belonging entirely to one master are those two equal in comparison? Praise be to Allah! but most of them have no knowledge.

Daraba Allahu mathalan rajulan feehi shurakao mutashakisoona warajulan salaman lirajulin hal yastawiyani mathalan alhamdu lillahi bal aktharuhum la yaAAlamoona

Daraba Allahu mathalan literally means “Allah hit an example.”

<- Object Example

When news is brought to one of them of (the birth of) what he sets up as a likeness to (Allah) Most Gracious, his face darkens, and he is filled with inward grief!

Wa-itha bushshira ahaduhum bima daraba liIrrahmani mathalan thalla wajhuhu muswaddan wahuwa katheemun

bima daraba liIrrahmani mathalan literally means “in the examples hit by the Merciful.”

<- Object Example

Had We sent down this Qur'an on a mountain, verily, thou wouldst have seen it humble itself and cleave asunder for fear of Allah. Such are the similitudes which We propound to men, that they may reflect.

Law anzalna hatha alqur-ana AAala jabalin laraaytahu khashiAAan mutasaddiAAan min khashyati Allahi watilka al-amthalu nadribuha liInnasi laAAallahum yatafakkaroona

watilka al-amthalu nadribuha liInnasi literally means “and these are the examples that we hit for the people.”

<- Object Example

Allah sets forth, for an example to the Unbelievers, the wife of Noah and the wife of Lut they were (respectively) under two of our righteous servants, but they were false to their (husbands), and they profited nothing before Allah on their account, but were told "Enter ye the Fire along with (others) that enter!"

Daraba Allahu mathalan lillatheena kafaroo imraata noohin waimraata lootin kanata tahta AAabdayni min AAibadina salihayni fakhanatahuma falam yughniya AAanhuma mina Allahi shay-an waqeela odkhula aInnara maAAa aIddakhileena

Daraba Allahu mathalan literally means “Allah has hit an example.”

<- Object Example

And Allah sets forth, as an example to those who believe the wife of Pharaoh Behold she said "O my Lord! Build for me, in nearness to Thee, a mansion in the Garden, and save me from Pharaoh and his doings, and save me from those that do wrong"

Wadaraba Allahu mathalan lillatheena amanoo imraata firAAawna ith qalat rabbi ibni lee AAindaka baytan fee aljannati wanajjinee min firAAawna waAAamalihi wanajjinee mina alqawmi aIththalimeena

Wadaraba Allahu mathalan literally means “And Allah has hit an example.”

To take away, to ignore 435

<- Object Admonition

Shall We then take away from you the Admonition because ye are a people extravagant?

Afanadribu AAankumu aIththikra safhan an kuntum qawman musrifeena

Afanadribu AAankumu aIththikra literally means “shall we hit the admonition from you.” Again, this is a known expression.

To condemn 261

<- Object Humiliation

And remember ye said "O Moses! we cannot endure one kind of food (always); so beseech thy Lord for us to produce for us of what the earth groweth, -its pot-herbs, and cucumbers, Its garlic, lentils, and onions." He said "Will ye exchange the better for the worse? Go ye down to any town, and ye shall find what ye want!" They were covered with humiliation and misery; they drew on themselves the wrath of Allah. This because they went on rejecting the Signs of Allah and slaying His Messengers without just cause. This because they rebelled and went on transgressing.

Wa-ith qultum ya moosa lan nasbira AAala taAAamin wahidin faodAAu lana rabbaka yukhrij lana mimma tunbitu al-ardu min baqliha waqiththa-iha wafoomiha waAAadasiha wabasaliha qala atastabdiloona allathee huwa adna bia|athee huwa khayrun ihbitoo misran fa-inna lakum ma saaltum waduribat AAalayhimu aIththillatu waalmaskanatu wabaoo bighadabin mina Allahi thalika bi- annahum kanoo yakfuroona bi-ayati Allahi wayaqtuloona aInnabiyyeena bighayri alhaqqi thalika bima AAasaw wakanoo yaAAtadoona

waduribat AAalayhimu aIththillatu literally means “and the humiliation was hit on him.” The humiliation is what was hit, not Moses himself.

8 ) To seal, to draw over 1811

<- Over the ears

Then We draw (a veil) over their ears, for a number of years, in the Cave, (so that they heard not)

Fadarabna AAala athanihim fee alkahfi sineena AAadadan

Fadarabna AAala athanihim literally means “we have hit over their ears,” which is a common expression in Arabic that means “we will make your ears hear nothing.” Just like "hit your feet" can mean "start walking." What was hit here was the ears, NOT the people themselves.

To cover 2431

<- Object Veils and Feet

And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.

Waqul lilmu/minati yaghdudna min absarihinna wayahfathna furoojahunna wala yubdeena zeenatahunna illa mathahara minha walyadribna bikhumurihinna AAala juyoobihinna wala yubdeena zeenatahunna illa libuAAoolatihinna aw aba-ihinna aw aba-i buAAoolatihinna awthabna-ihinna aw abna-i buAAoolatihinna aw ikhwanihinna aw banee ikhwanihinna aw banee akhawatihinna aw nisa- ihinna aw ma malakat aymanuhunna awi aIttabiAAeena ghayri olee al-irbati mina aIrrijali awi aIttifli allatheena lam ya haroo AAala AAawrati aInnisa-i wala yadribna bi-arjulihinna liyuAAlama ma yukhfeena min zeenatihinna watooboo ila Allahi jameeAAan ayyuha almu/minoona laAAallakum tuflihoona

This verse mentions the verb “darb” twice.

In the first time, it says walyadribna bikhumurihinna AAala juyoobihinna which literally means “and they should hit their veils over their bosoms,” which also doesn’t reflect that the word “darb” means “cover” as alleged. If it was, then it should be written as such “and they should hit themselves with their veils over their bosoms.”

In the second time, wala yadribna bi-arjulihinna means “they should not hit their feet;” and here hit is meant literally to mean “hit” or “strike.”

To explain 1317

<- Object Truth and Vanity

He sends down water from the skies, and the channels flow, each according to its measure But the torrent bears away to foam that mounts up to the surface. Even so, from that (ore) which they heat in the fire, to make ornaments or utensils therewith, there is a scum likewise. Thus doth Allah (by parables) show forth Truth and Vanity. For the scum disappears like forth cast out; while that which is for the good of mankind remains on the earth. Thus doth Allah set forth parables.

Anzala mina aIssama-i maan fasalat awdiyatun biqadariha faihtamala aIssaylu zabadan rabiyan wamimma yooqidoona AAalayhi fee aInnari ibtighaa hilyatin aw mataAAin zabadun mithluhu kathalika yadribu Allahu alhaqqa waalbatila faamma aIzzabadu fayathhabu jufaan waamma ma yanfaAAu aInnasa fayamkuthu fee al-ardi kathalika yadribu Allahu al-amthala

Two instances of "darb" here

yadribu Allahu alhaqqa waalbatila literally means “Allah hits the truth and the vanity,” which means “Allahs explains the truth and the vanity.”

yadribu Allahu al-amthala literally means “Allah hits an example.”

All the verses mentioned so far that were given by the Islamist site, which were intended to show that “darab” has another meaning than “beat” or “strike,” has NEVER used “darab” against a human being. Thus, all of them are irrelevant and useless in our debate.

Again, when I say I’ll hit my woman, does it have any other meaning than I’ll beat her? Despite all the other meanings to be used with OTHER objects, it has no other meaning when used with THIS SPECIFIC object.

As I said earlier, the only way for “darab” to have multipile meaning is when used against humans. And LUCKELY, there are FEW verses in the Quran that uses “darab” against humans, which were also given by the Islamic site in the next two sections.

To strike 260,73; 7160; 812; 2077; 2431; 2663; 3793; 474

<- Object Rock

And remember Moses prayed for water for his people; We said "Strike the rock with thy staff." Then gushed forth therefrom twelve springs. Each group knew its own place for water. So eat and drink of the sustenance provided by Allah, and do no evil nor mischief on the (face of the) earth.

Wa-ithi istasqa moosa liqawmihi faqulna idrib biAAasaka alhajara fainfajarat minhu ithnata AAashrata AAaynan qad AAalima kullu onasin mashrabahum kuloo waishraboo min rizqi Allahi wala taAAthaw fee al-ardi mufsideena

idrib biAAasaka alhajara literally means “hit the rock.”

<- Object Human

So We said "Strike him (the dead man) with a piece of it (the cow)." Thus Allah brings the dead to life and shows you His Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) so that you may understand.

Faqulna idriboohu bibaAAdiha kathalika yuhyee Allahu almawta wayureekum ayatihi laAAallakum taAAqiloona

idriboohu bibaAAdiha literally say “beat him with part of her.” The one to be beaten is the dead man, a HUMAN, which is equivilant to verse 434 where a wife to be beaten. The only meaning here for “darab” is only “strike” or "beat." The mysterious translation of "separate from them" that was used instead of "beat" in 434 CANNOT be applied here, because the cow and the man were definitely “not connected” to be "separated." The Islamic site ALSO agrees upon that understanding of the word “darab” here. This verse CONFIRMS that when the man was “darab,” it was meant to be “he was stroke or beaten.” Thus, it is very logical to conclude that “darab” against a woman will also mean “strike” or “beat.”

<- Object Rock

We divided them into twelve tribes or nations. We directed Moses by inspiration, when his (thirsty) people asked him for water "Strike the rock with thy staff" out of it there gushed forth twelve springs Each group knew its own place for water. We gave them the shade of clouds, and sent down to them manna and quails, (saying) "Eat of the good things We have provided for you" (but they rebelled); to Us they did no harm, but they harmed their own souls.

WaqattaAAnahumu ithnatay AAashrata asbatan omaman waawhayna ila moosa ithi istasqahu qawmuhu ani idrib biAAasaka alhajara fainbajasat minhu ithnata AAashrata AAaynan qad AAalima kullu ona_sin mashrabahum wa_ allaln_a AAalayhimu algham_a_ma waanzalna_ AAalayhimu almanna waalssalwaÄ kuloo min -tayyibÄati maÄ razaqnaÄkum wamaÄ _ alamoon a wal a kin k a noo anfusahum ya limoona

idrib biAAasaka alhajara literally means “hit the rock.”

<- Object Human Necks

Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message) "I am with you give firmness to the Believers I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

Ith yooh ee rabbuka il a almal a -ikati annee maAAakum fathabbitoo alla_th eena a manoo saolqee fee quloobi allat_h eena kafaroo aIrruAAba faidriboo fawqa al-aAAnaqi waidriboo minhum kulla bananin

faidriboo fawqa al-aAAnaqi waidriboo minhum kulla bananin literally means “hit over the necks and hit from them all their fingers.” The first “hit” meant “beat” and the second meant “cut-off.” Both objects here are not whole bodies, but only parts (necks and fingers), and I don't think the "modern Islamists" will prefer to use either one, since the first is the correct meaning they reject, and the second ("cut off&quot is not softer than "beat."

<- Object Road

We sent an inspiration to Moses "Travel by night with My servants, and strike a dry path for them through the sea, without fear of being overtaken (by Pharaoh) and without (any other) fear."

Walaqad awÄhaynÄa ilaÄ moosÄa an asri biAAibÄadee faidÄrib lahum -tareeqan fee albahÄri yabasan lÄa takhafu darakan wala takhsha

faidÄrib lahum -tareeqan literally means “so hit a road for them.”

<- Object Feet and Veil

This verse is repeated and already discussed under the section “9) To cover”

<- Object Sea

Then We told Moses by inspiration "Strike the sea with thy rod." So it divided, and each separate part became like the huge, firm mass of a mountain.

Faawhayna ila moosa aniidrib biAAasaka albahra fainfalaqa faka_na kullu firqin kaalt_t awdi alAAa eemi

aniidrib biAAasaka albahra literally means “to hit with your stick the sea.”

<- Object Human

Then did he turn upon them, striking (them) with the right hand.

Faragha AAalayhim darban bialyameeni

That’s a good one. Here, darban bialyameeni literally means “hit them with the right .” According to this verse, when verb “daraban” is applied to humans, it meant “beat” or the similar word “strike.” It can never mean “separate them from your right hand,” as it sounds completely ridiculous. The Islamic site ALSO agrees that “darab” here means “strike.”

<- Object Human Necks

Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them) thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded) but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of
Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.

Fa-itha laqeetumu allatheena kafaroo fadarba aIrriqabi hatta itha athkhantumoohum fashuddooalwathaqa fa-imma mannan baAAdu wa-imma fidaan hatta tadaAAa alharbu awzaraha thalika walaw yash_a o All_a hu lainta_s ara minhum wala_ kin liyabluwa baAA_d akum bibaAA_d in waa|a_th_ eena qutiloo fee sabeeli All_a_hi falan yu_d_illa aAAm_a_lahum

fadarba aIrriqabi literally means “the hit of the necks.” Here it meant to say “beaten on their necks,” and the Islamic site agrees upon that.

To beat 850; 4727

<- Object Human Faces

If thou couldst see, when the angels take the souls of the Unbelievers (at death), (How) they smite their faces and their backs, (saying) "Taste the penalty of the blazing Fire-

Walaw tara ith yatawaffa allatheena kafaroo almala-ikatu yadriboona wujoohahum waadbarahum wathooqoo AAathaba alhareeqi

yadriboona wujoohahum literally means “hit their faces,” which is translated by the Islamic site as "beat their faces."

<- Object Human Faces

But how (will it be) when the angels take their souls at death, and smite their faces and their backs?

Fakayfa itha tawaffat-humu almala-ikatu yadriboona wujoohahum waadbarahum

yadriboona wujoohahum literally means “hit their faces.” Just like the previous verse.

In conclusion, all the verses that contain “darb” against a human are understood by their context, and agreed by the Islamic “modern scholars,” to mean "beat" or "strike" that human. Why do they consider verse 434 to be a “special case” and translate "darb" to "separate from them"?

Maybe because it's a bit harsh?

what a bunch of deceivers.

beating = leave ??? what a pathetic and DESPERATE attempt to justify this act, the Arabic word idribohunna Driven from the root word Darab Does not have any other meaning than Beat WHEN it comes to MEAN "Yadreb Ahadan" = Hit someone , Idriboohunna أضربوهن means beat them (for female plural), Adriboo Anhunna اضربوا عنهن IS the one that means abandon or leave them...here is the Arabic lexicon (Qamoos al muheet) on this word

http//lexicons.ajeeb.com/html/7071942.html

so lets see the verse , I highlighted the word

it says Idriboohunna اضربوهن, not Adribu Anhunna أضربوا عنهن....the meaning is totally different, but of course , LYING AND DECEIVING is in the blood of Muslims , why not deceive some naive English speaking people in some Arabic words? no wonder why this sect is a FAILURE in the Arab world and have absolutely no ground there.

--
Here's the link

http//www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/ArabChristian30907.htm

Wakas

In my view, the most evidence Quranic position by far
https//www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html

The $1000 challenge posted on the site you reference faithfreedom
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599954.msg288105#msg288105

You can see what happened for yourself.

The_Sardar

Salam/Peace dear sister. Here is a Arabic speaker sibling of ours, Qur'an Centric and he has made a video, refuting the claim that idrib is beating in 434

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TqemALUSb4

reel

and made "their own translations" on obscure sites like Free-Minds.org and Progressive-Muslims.org. It proves nothing but the extreme vagueness of the Quran, to the extent that the scholarship of its finest scholars is currently being questioned.

Why write a looong article on what "obscure sites" say?

The $1000 challenge posted on the site you reference faithfreedom
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599954.msg288105#msg288105

You can see what happened for yourself.

That was a good one.

Islam first takes away the persons identity, humanity, self worth, his past culture, and fills the vacuum created with blind faith in Islam.
The person then becomes nothing, less than human, a worthless peace of scrap if Islam were to taken away from him.
Islam becomes his identity, his only self worth.

But, the process is reversible, as apostasy proves the case.

One has to be quite daring to have an intellectual conversation with atheists coming out of sects. They don't change. This guy didn't even notice that he called himself worthless piece of scrap.

hawk99

Peace, in the U.S. wife beating is illegal so is slavery. Can a wife fight back?
Some women will not tolerate abuse. Many American women are fighters
and hitting them is a bad idea.

reel

Can a wife fight back?
Some women will not tolerate abuse. Many American women are fighters
and hitting them is a bad idea.

Lets not forget that God permits self defense. That contradicts the call for "physical' beating. A very ground breaking reply I got against that from a sunni is that self defense permission is given to Muslims and not women. I need to retrieve that gem from the sub.

Also the verse in question includes women who are capable of guarding a house like men. So it should end badly unless it is bdsm!

hawk99

Lets not forget that God permits self defense. That contradicts the call for "physical' beating. A very ground breaking reply I got against that from a sunni is that self defense permission is given to Muslims and not women. I need to retrieve that gem from the sub.

Also the verse in question includes women who are capable of guarding a house like men. So it should end badly unless it is bdsm!

Yes, God permits self defense, besides beating the wife is problematic.
After talking to her and not being in bed with her, and beating her.
( I do not see the word "finally" before "beat" in the corpus.)
That brings me to the question what is the meaning of daraba in the
context of the verse.

Moving on to
If you fear dissension between the two appoint an arbitrator for him
and one for her.

It seems an arbitrator would be more useful before the beating starts!

peace

Wakas

peace,

"beat them", that sounds like sunni-imam to me. Rather separate, makes sense, if you fear misconduct from your wife.

Peace.

That understanding has some significant issues. From http//www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html#part3

It has been argued that idriboohunna in 434 means "separate (from) them" ('Quran a Reformist Translation&#039 or "go away from them" ('The Sublime Quran' by Laleh Bakhtiar), which interestingly has some support in the traditional commentaries and fits better than "strike/beat". However, I feel this translation is possible only as long as it does not imply divorce/talaq, as The Quran always uses the word talaq to mean divorce AND since the contract-breaking party compensates the other, it would be unfair for the husband to initiate divorce when he has done nothing wrong in this case. There are other problems with this understanding

it is not quite a conflict-resolution step and if not meant to imply divorce/talaq then it seemingly penalises the husband implying he should move out.
any degree of leaving/separating/shunning may fall afoul of doing iAAradan (alienation / turning away) in 4128, thus such a step may give the wife a legitimate reason for ending the marriage, thus unless clarified/limited this meaning does not fit well.
results in incoherence when DRB is used with a human as the direct object (see 4357 and 273)
requires the insertion of "from" making this the only DRB example of this kind in The Quran, even though the preposition "AAn /from" is used with DRB in 435 in a very similar usage as being suggested here for 434.
provides no explanation as to how the authority find out about the issue in the marriage by 435
makes little sense when in the reversed role 4128-129, discussed later.
seeming contradiction when in 434 the husband is ordered to "separate/leave" yet in 435 favours reconciliation
8 ) odd recommendation as the husband's fear is disloyalty in the unseen/private, yet moving out or separating will result in more unseen/private time
has no supporting example in Quran, see below.
An answer that can provide perfect coherence within The Quran is the ideal.
As we can see, a mechanism should exist that allows the authority to be notified and resolves a situation like this in a fair manner. We will now review examples from The Quran itself to see if an answer is given.

jkhan

"beat them", that sounds like sunni-imam to me. Rather separate, makes sense, if you fear misconduct from your wife.

Peace.

Salam..
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9612311.0
Read my reply #5 in the biased translations topic.. .

I researched a lot and compared a lot and concluded ultimately..
Here the woman in concern had not done any fahisha (immoral sexual activity) but mere misconduct which is not appropriate for a better wedded life as couple.. On top of that to do all these, husband has to be a believer plus a good person not having such traits of wife.. Simply clean person..

So God recommend first and foremost possible solution as ADMONISH.. admonish with what is right within Quran so that she has a chance to reflect if she is indeed a believing woman...
If rectified fine.. If not second option (while keep admonishing) is NOT INCLINING / APPROACHING with her as usual like a lovely couple ideally lives.. You know with love and care and inclinations fun etc.. Just avoid all of them with her making her feel little lonely so perhaps she rectify... It's not about sharing bed.. but full day inclinations throughout the day should be warded off..
And third option while doing previous two is to RESTRAIN her from such misconduct.. This is the hardest part and ultimate option.. Here husband will feel the pinch.. Coz he is trying to restrain / prevent her such misconduct directly by himself in a possible doable manner and not any violent actions but trying his level best to restrain her misconducts whenever she is about to do such misconduct... So such misconducts may dwindle gradually since husband is hampering at the grassroots level... Hard but has to try to rectify her from falling to the activities..

While doing third part there could be some hiccups coz she may not willing to obey.. So possible chances of both getting distant unless she realises and obey .. So immediately God advices from both families someone to mediate..

But if everything fails.. Needless to elaborate.. They have options to find their appropriate partners in future rather than living with someone who is not conducive or compatible.

For me God's instructions to a husband is crystal clear and never any harm involved to a woman who could be naturally misbehaving or her nature etc.. No other matter God explained in the verse..

Thank you...

jkhan

Restrain? I remember discussing this verse many years ago, and it was generally interpreted that a sensible warn/stop sex/separate was good enough. Beat, is not what you do to someone you should separate from, when misconducting. Not really restrain either.

Peace.

Peace..

I am not here to debate honestly since I am convinced of the verse and I am hot just cherry picking here.. But you are still trying in my understanding..
Just as a last note.. God says enjoin Mauruf and prevent Munkar...
Actions speaks louder than saying..
Believers duty is to prevent certain things in life and in society not just keep saying in words ..

For example.. What would one do if parents realize that their child has misconduct who is hardly 6 year old.. Same steps in my understanding... Just admonish according to his age.. Don't show all your inclinations and love and thirdly restrain him / prevent misconduct .. You can't just let him repeat.. Your admonition and leaving inclination not enough and you are practically not doing anything to curb the child from misbehaving.. Yes.. Wife is not a child but actions required if misconducts to be curtailed... Any misconducts even in society, mere admonishing won't work out if not responding.. But preventive measures to be taken. .

Unless one realises the matter then no point of digging deep... God's message is clear and people's difference of opinion won't matter in front of truth... There is no separation written at all in the verse 434... But 435 only hint if they both failed then others mediate within a family matter unfortunately ..

Anyway thank you.. I am happy with guidance of God unless I ever get any better explanation from anyone on this earth .. I don't get so far.. No more comments voz it is discussed to the depth in this forum..

May Allah / the God guide us if we deserve... group

KDC501

Peace..

I am not here to debate honestly since I am convinced of the verse and I am hot just cherry picking here.. But you are still trying in my understanding..
Just as a last note.. God says enjoin Mauruf and prevent Munkar...
Actions speaks louder than saying..
Believers duty is to prevent certain things in life and in society not just keep saying in words ..

For example.. What would one do if parents realize that their child has misconduct who is hardly 6 year old.. Same steps in my understanding... Just admonish according to his age.. Don't show all your inclinations and love and thirdly restrain him / prevent misconduct .. You can't just let him repeat.. Your admonition and leaving inclination not enough and you are practically not doing anything to curb the child from misbehaving.. Yes.. Wife is not a child but actions required if misconducts to be curtailed... Any misconducts even in society, mere admonishing won't work out if not responding.. But preventive measures to be taken. .

Unless one realises the matter then no point of digging deep... God's message is clear and people's difference of opinion won't matter in front of truth... There is no separation written at all in the verse 434... But 435 only hint if they both failed then others mediate within a family matter unfortunately ..

Anyway thank you.. I am happy with guidance of God unless I ever get any better explanation from anyone on this earth .. I don't get so far.. No more comments voz it is discussed to the depth in this forum..

May Allah / the God guide us if we deserve... group

In a nutshell God has given men the right to beat their wives. Yes men can beat their wives, but it's under the condition that there is chaos in the household because of the actions of the wife. My understanding of the verse is that the wife is misbehaving probably engaging in extramarital affairs that has come to the attention of the husband. Thus, God has given the husband the absolute authority to beat their wives to admonish them on the correct path. Translators shy from translating it as beat probably because they can't understand why God would give men the authority to beat women. Our society has become so "modern" "feminized" and sensitive to the point of absurdity that translators cannot fathom why God would allow a husband to beat his wife? wow However this is a misguided notion built on feminism (a satanic ideology) since if a person does commit adultery and there are witnesses God clearly says in the Quran she is getting that ass whupping in public along with the man she was with. So yes God gave husband's the authority to whup the behind of their wives to admonish them.

PS If I had a wife and I had no kids with this woman I would just divorce her, however if I do have kids with this woman I would then go about doing the steps, as mentioned (talk to her, abandon the bed, then get the leather belt) etc. Why? Because she's the mother of my children and it's my responsibility to keep the family together for the sake of the children's mental state and the family as a whole. However if she doesn't listen even after the whupping, divorce her.

Regards,

Kevin

jkhan

In a nutshell God has given men the right to beat their wives. Yes men can beat their wives, but it's under the condition that there is chaos in the household because of the actions of the wife. My understanding of the verse is that the wife is misbehaving probably engaging in extramarital affairs that has come to the attention of the husband. Thus, God has given the husband the absolute authority to beat their wives to admonish them on the correct path. Translators shy from translating it as beat probably because they can't understand why God would give men the authority to beat women. Our society has become so "modern" "feminized" and sensitive to the point of absurdity that translators cannot fathom why God would allow a husband to beat his wife? wow However this is a misguided notion built on feminism (a satanic ideology) since if a person does commit adultery and there are witnesses God clearly says in the Quran she is getting that ass whupping in public along with the man she was with. So yes God gave husband's the authority to whup the behind of their wives to admonish them.

PS If I had a wife and I had no kids with this woman I would just divorce her, however if I do have kids with this woman I would then go about doing the steps, as mentioned (talk to her, abandon the bed, then get the leather belt) etc. Why? Because she's the mother of my children and it's my responsibility to keep the family together for the sake of the children's mental state and the family as a whole. However if she doesn't listen even after the whupping, divorce her.

Regards,

Kevin

Well... May God guide you if you seek... That's what most men on this earth doing... And on top of that God doesn't need to give authority in writing to carry out... Shame on those who treat women in that manner. I literally curse such men who raise their hands on women... Misconducts are of various types not necessarily be sexual (verse never speaks sex) ...if she has done sexual misconduct then husband has all the right to kick her out of the house according to Quran... And she deserves punishment accordingly.. But here misconduct is just misconduct ..
Suppose for example.. She wears cloths exposing her beauty... It's a misconduct. What husband has to do is admonish.. This is wrong way of dressing... Just wear moderate .. If she still prefers exposing type of dresses then problem continues. Misconduct of many nature you will find in people ..just don't take it as sexual relation with others. ..

Women is not a toy to beat just coz she is created less powerful than men in bodily strenghth.... Beating a person would never rectify her rather it would only influence hatred... If beating is solution then husband has misconduct ciz he is beating his wife... Lol... What would a believing wife do to a husbsbd if she find extra marital sexual relations in her husband.. Would she beat him or have the capacity to do? Lol... Just don't mock the manifest instructions of God. .

How would you handle your 10.year old kid if you find him drug addicted or consuming alcohol at will? Would you beat him? Just be a human bro... No more comments..

KDC501

Well... May God guide you if you seek... That's what most men on this earth doing... And on top of that God doesn't need to give authority in writing to carry out... Shame on those who treat women in that manner. I literally curse such men who raise their hands on women... Misconducts are of various types not necessarily be sexual (verse never speaks sex) ...if she has done sexual misconduct then husband has all the right to kick her out of the house according to Quran... And she deserves punishment accordingly.. But here misconduct is just misconduct ..
Suppose for example.. She wears cloths exposing her beauty... It's a misconduct. What husband has to do is admonish.. This is wrong way of dressing... Just wear moderate .. If she still prefers exposing type of dresses then problem continues. Misconduct of many nature you will find in people ..just don't take it as sexual relation with others. ..

Women is not a toy to beat just coz she is created less powerful than men in bodily strenghth.... Beating a person would never rectify her rather it would only influence hatred... If beating is solution then husband has misconduct ciz he is beating his wife... Lol... What would a believing wife do to a husbsbd if she find extra marital sexual relations in her husband.. Would she beat him or have the capacity to do? Lol... Just don't mock the manifest instructions of God. .

How would you handle your 10.year old kid if you find him drug addicted or consuming alcohol at will? Would you beat him? Just be a human bro... No more comments..

God gave men the authority to beat women. Yes he did. This is not me abusing the scripture or trying to exert power. This is a directive given to us men by God. The fact is men today are too sensitive and have allowed Satan and women to corrupt their moral obligation and duties to be leaders in their families and communities. This generation of men is absolutely pathetic and an embarrassment to the entire species of men. God is probably wondering why he even gave us a pair of balls. What's the point if we have essentially become weak and cowardly like a female. That is why the world is filled with corruption and powerful corrupt satanic men manipulating the herds of the compliant like cattle.

Anyone that commits adultery whether man or woman gets the whupping. Beat them and do not spare them the Quran says. That is what we must do. This is in the Quran. So here's a question why would muslim men be surprised that God has given men the authority to admonish his wife engaging in corrupt practices (particularly adultery)? Didn't he gave us the authority to whup the adulterous?

To answer your question my 10 year son would never engage in anything of that manner because I would be a good father and instruct him accordingly. If he did I would beat him. I'm from the caribbean. Beating misbehaving children is the norm as it has been for 1000s of years.

What does "be human" mean? Be human as compared to whom? The pagans? The ones who allow their children to rule and govern over them?

Regards,

Kevin

jkhan

God gave men the authority to beat women. Yes he did. This is not me abusing the scripture or trying to exert power. This is a directive given to us men by God. The fact is men today are too sensitive and have allowed Satan and women to corrupt their moral obligation and duties to be leaders in their families and communities. This generation of men is absolutely pathetic and an embarrassment to the entire species of men. God is probably wondering why he even gave us a pair of balls. What's the point if we have essentially become weak and cowardly like a female. That is why the world is filled with corruption and powerful corrupt satanic men manipulating the herds of the compliant like cattle.

Anyone that commits adultery whether man or woman gets the whupping. Beat them and do not spare them the Quran says. That is what we must do. This is in the Quran. So here's a question why would muslim men be surprised that God has given men the authority to admonish his wife engaging in corrupt practices (particularly adultery)? Didn't he gave us the authority to whup the adulterous?

To answer your question my 10 year son would never engage in anything of that manner because I would be a good father and instruct him accordingly. If he did I would beat him. I'm from the caribbean. Beating misbehaving children is the norm as it has been for 1000s of years.

What does "be human" mean? Be human as compared to whom? The pagans? The ones who allow their children to rule and govern over them?

Regards,

Kevin

First of all to be human means come towards light from darkness of ignorance.. Follow Quran and you can be a human...

Pls think thousand time before say anything in the name of God. God never gave authority as you say to beat women just coz of her misconduct..

Yes.. Be a man and don't be a woman coz you are created as man and not woman. It doesn't mean man means beating children and women and wage war and rape women.. Man is guardian of a family / society not an aggressive junk / beast / bastard..

Note well brother.. extra marital sexual relations for a married person is Zina... In that case verse 434 doesn't apply at all.. She has done zina and you don't need to admonish her... And keep away her from inclinations.. lol. And as you say beat her... Law is constituted in that community where such law can be applied in that society since they had the system and authority to implement law. So. If a woman has done zina 434 is not relevant at all. Just kick her out of the house and inform the relevant authority and if she is convicted then 100 days of rigorous imprisonment will be executed...
So here 434 is mere a misconduct... Try to grasp it.. Wife who has done zina doesn't deserve admonishing bla bla. Are you out of your mind..?

Word does say restrain (dharab) ... How to restrain a miconduct... Suppose a wife of a believer is alcohol addicted.. Admonish her.. Keep her away from inclinations and while doing both be pragmatic.. How.?? Restrain her.. How? Don't let her be addicted.. Be a barricade in her action of misconduct.. If she is disobeying constantly then no other option other than divorce.. Unless she realize and rectify... Think of any misconduct in general other than zina. You should be able to solve them by instructions given by God... If still fails it means she is adament and going away from the path of God.

Note.. In Caribbeans it may be practice of beating kids. Okay.. In anger a father may beat even in anger a husband may beat at the inception.. but not solution and not advocated by Allah.. If a son has misconduct use same steps as of 434... Lastly be a barricade infront of him and prevent him misbehaving..thats practical way of hampering a misconduct. Go after him. Follow him and be a constant barricade if you want to correct him while admonishing fails.. If everything fails then you have done your part. You are a good father but unfortunately son has chosen a wrong path... Beating is not solution to amend a person's misconduct. So weird and crazy. Never they will reform.. Just they will cheat you. .

That's why I realized in verse 1874 Musa's partber not killed the boy but bullied him with heavy threatening so GID sent him in right path. Sometines Admonishion do work on people who have never warned of admonished until they get admonished.. They were astray coz they didn't find good admonition..

So just follow what God orders and not your preconceived thought and adapting verses of God towards it.

Reflect and be good if you love Allah.. Coz He never command evil but He commands justice

Wakas

Kevin, A lot of words but little evidence...

DRB in 434 is 1st verb form
DRB as "beat" is 2nd verb form according to Classical Arabic dictionaries -thus the only interpretation for you is strike/hit (i.e. once) You probably have no clue about that.

.....My understanding of the verse is that the wife is misbehaving probably engaging in extramarital affairs that has come to the attention of the.....

Where in Quran does it allow for punishment for a "probably"? ;D

Stop wasting everyone's time and provide actual evidenced answers to the many points raised in www.Quran434.com

www.Quran434.com was posted in Islamaphobe forum with a $1000 prize to refute it as per Quran and they couldn't. Feel free to take up the challenge.

KDC501

Kevin, A lot of words but little evidence...

DRB in 434 is 1st verb form
DRB as "beat" is 2nd verb form according to Classical Arabic dictionaries -thus the only interpretation for you is strike/hit (i.e. once) You probably have no clue about that.

Where in Quran does it allow for punishment for a "probably"? ;D

Stop wasting everyone's time and provide actual evidenced answers to the many points raised in www.Quran434.com

www.Quran434.com was posted in Islamaphobe forum with a $1000 prize to refute it as per Quran and they couldn't. Feel free to take up the challenge.

Of course you can't punish someone based on "probable" cause. That's absurd. When I say "probably" I was drawing examples as to where the whupping may be applied. So from my understanding a whupping can be applied in the following senarios-

• The woman is engaging in adultery with another man and it has come to your knowledge.

• The woman is disobedient. She usurps your authority in the household and refuses to listen to you. This causes chaos in the household and disorder.

God has given men various ways to handle a disobedient woman. First you talk to them, then if that doesn't work (and it usually never works), then you desert the bed chambers (this will never work for modern women today in my view), and as a last alternative you beat them. Now the Quran does not specify how or in what manner to beat them. Personally I would use a leather belt which is pretty standard. However the real question men need to ask is, is this verse a LAW or is a SUGGESTION? I believe it's a suggestion. God is helping us, guiding us to make the best decision. But because of the beast that is modern society and the sickness that is feminism it may be best to just divorce such a woman and leave her to her own vices. Men have to be smart and allow these kinds of women to go their own way and destroy themselves and whichever home decides to take them in.

Regards,

Kevin.

jkhan

Of course you can't punish someone based on "probable" cause. That's absurd. When I say "probably" I was drawing examples as to where the whupping may be applied. So from my understanding a whupping can be applied in the following senarios-

• The woman is engaging in adultery with another man and it has come to your knowledge.

• The woman is disobedient. She usurps your authority in the household and refuses to listen to you. This causes chaos in the household and disorder.

God has given men various ways to handle a disobedient woman. First you talk to them, then if that doesn't work (and it usually never works), then you desert the bed chambers (this will never work for modern women today in my view), and as a last alternative you beat them. Now the Quran does not specify how or in what manner to beat them. Personally I would use a leather belt which is pretty standard. However the real question men need to ask is, is this verse a LAW or is a SUGGESTION? I believe it's a suggestion. God is helping us, guiding us to make the best decision. But because of the beast that is modern society and the sickness that is feminism it may be best to just divorce such a woman and leave her to her own vices. Men have to be smart and allow these kinds of women to go their own way and destroy themselves and whichever home decides to take them in.

Regards,

Kevin.

Kevin my Caribbean buddy...
Disgusting your wording to even read.. Perhaps you are a good person but not your wording...

All instructions of God not gonna work and only third option which you manipulated does work.. Wow.. Don't forget Satan also lives on this earth and he decends immediately to places where evil is around..
I wish you don't have a wife at all. Even you have let her be stronger than you. Yeah Caribbean women are no means any way. World knows that..(I wish at least 10 men of India out of 1 billion people who can defeat Caribbean women in 100m sprint Olympic medallists rotfl ..kidding but truth) Not easy for you to beat with a belt of leather..

In case you have a wife and ensure she doesn't read your post.. .. Would you like your father beat your mother with a leather belt for a misconduct if you love your mother.. Perhaps if you have a heart you would say No... Don't be barbaric but be man of real quality and that's what God teaches us and reminds us.. I feel pity for you that's why I answer... You know that's why remind all of you who read verse 37 is very pivotal. . Kevin has taken the verse direct without thorough comprehension like many people took the verse 1874 direct with direct wording of God. I don't blame you in a way Kevin.. Coz yes.. Dharab is written in Quran and it has obviously a meaning of beat/hit ...yeah your temptation (fitna) is on that. . Similarly I don't blame those who says 1874 is Killed coz YaqthulHu has meaning of Killed him.. So temptation (fitna) according to verse 37 has embossed in your hearts not its real picture. Yes God couod have in many verses used a simple word in which there is no ambiguity but God does what He does.. If He wants to send astray by this Quran anyone He will.. Coz He knows His true believers will choose best of His verses and ita meaning.. And God guides with a reason.. God never guides who are tempted.

So Kevin bring the woman that you want to beat to the street not in your room coz God has not said beat her in public or private.. So do it in public so you would become more manly..
So.. You can become a true believer and you deserve Janna for your honesty. So after all janna is so easy access by following verses of God I mean beating women..
Misconducts of many nature.. Just imagine.. Or watch a family movie or mega TV show.. You will see women's irritations and misconducts unbearable... Lol. .. That's what called misconducts..

Anyway... May God guide you coz you need admonition .. Perhaps admonition works on you ...

Note Kevin... Prostitution or zina or any sexual relations one does, is not something that God has promised never to forgive... Of course Allah will forgive if they reform truly .. So don't be barbaric monster..

As well note.. Punishment for Zina is not be felt with weak mind.. Coz they deserve the rigorous imprisonment.. They have done shameful thing which should be controlled.. Be it men or women.. But Kevin's aggressive approach is not in Quran...

One additional point Kevin... Read 4128 without fail.. You will get what misconduct is.. It is common in human be it man or women.. But it is not sex related.. After dharab word god says "don't seek any other path against the women"...well that's the path(beating) you have taken.. God instructs not to be aggressive or violent in 434..
Thank you for reading..

KDC501

Kevin my Caribbean buddy...
Disgusting your wording to even read.. Perhaps you are a good person but not your wording...

All instructions of God not gonna work and only third option which you manipulated does work.. Wow.. Don't forget Satan also lives on this earth and he decends immediately to places where evil is around..
I wish you don't have a wife at all. Even you have let her be stronger than you. Yeah Caribbean women are no means any way. World knows that..(I wish at least 10 men of India out of 1 billion people who can defeat Caribbean women in 100m sprint Olympic medallists rotfl ..kidding but truth) Not easy for you to beat with a belt of leather..

Well the other options don't work with the vast majority of modern women, because their minds have been infected with "progressivism" and "feminism". The fact is for centuries men have been the captains and the kings of their household and women had to obey their husbands. You tell a woman that today she would scorn you, call you misogynist and every evil word you could possibly imagine. I'm convinced of two things, one, their will be more women in hell, this is an absolute surety because men of our generation have failed women and allowed them to disgrace themselves in every possible manner and two, if any of the prophets were alive today they would understand exactly what I'm talking about. Yes my wording could have been much better but the fact is, these species of women that we have today are NOTHING like the godly women of past that were submissive and respected their husbands.

In case you have a wife and ensure she doesn't read your post.. ..

Dude you don't know me at all. I would gladly show her this thread. rotfl I don't really care. Why should I? This is in the Quran. God has given us men this option. Dread it, run from it, this is what God stated in the Quran.

Would you like your father beat your mother with a leather belt for a misconduct if you love your mother..

My mother is a traditional woman. My father ran his household with her support. This is how couples are suppose to be like. Men and woman are not equal. Men are in charge, women follow and support their husbands.

Don't be barbaric but be man of real quality and that's what God teaches us and reminds us..

Yes this is barbaric according to modern standards however modern standards are not God's standards. I don't care about what modern society thinks. They will rot in hell and rightly so. Us muslim men shouldn't care what modern society thinks of us. The pagans are destroying themselves as we speak. Also, can anyone among us say that God never gave us (muslim men) the mandate for conquest if our enemies decide to attack us? Wouldn't this practice also be considered even more "barbaric" than God's statement of beating a disobedient woman?

God instructs not to be aggressive or violent in 434..

You are correct however like I said before I would rather divorce a disobedient woman than use a leather belt unless I see that there is some hope she can change with admonishment then the whuppings will proceed. However in most cases, I have no time to waste behind a stubborn disobedient woman that doesn't respect a man's authority in his household causing chaos.

Regards,

Kevin

jkhan

Well the other options don't work with the vast majority of modern women, because their minds have been infected with "progressivism" and "feminism". The fact is for centuries men have been the captains and the kings of their household and women had to obey their husbands. You tell a woman that today she would scorn you, call you misogynist and every evil word you could possibly imagine. I'm convinced of two things, one, their will be more women in hell, this is an absolute surety because men of our generation have failed women and allowed them to disgrace themselves in every possible manner and two, if any of the prophets were alive today they would understand exactly what I'm talking about. Yes my wording could have been much better but the fact is, these species of women that we have today are NOTHING like the godly women of past that were submissive and respected their husbands.

Dude you don't know me at all. I would gladly show her this thread. rotfl I don't really care. Why should I? This is in the Quran. God has given us men this option. Dread it, run from it, this is what God stated in the Quran.

My mother is a traditional woman. My father ran his household with her support. This is how couples are suppose to be like. Men and woman are not equal. Men are in charge, women follow and support their husbands.

Yes this is barbaric according to modern standards however modern standards are not God's standards. I don't care about what modern society thinks. They will rot in hell and rightly so. Us muslim men shouldn't care what modern society thinks of us. The pagans are destroying themselves as we speak. Also, can anyone among us say that God never gave us (muslim men) the mandate for conquest if our enemies decide to attack us? Wouldn't this practice also be considered even more "barbaric" than God's statement of beating a disobedient woman?

You are correct however like I said before I would rather divorce a disobedient woman than use a leather belt unless I see that there is some hope she can change with admonishment then the whuppings will proceed. However in most cases, I have no time to waste behind a stubborn disobedient woman that doesn't respect a man's authority in his household causing chaos.

Regards,

Kevin

I see some good in you and I am sure you can be a better person if you choose the guidance as it is stated. Something has brainwashed you for sure for ages and you are not being able to come out if the shackles...

Yes. We all know women of today all Ade not good at all meanwhile men too.. Buy this is the best era ever for women there is freedom and that too honestly coz of men who allowed it to happen rather than the yester generations who suppressed them..

But don't be biased with what you see in society and judge God's verses accordingly... Suppose.. If a true believer got a wife who has a misconduct then yes it is unfortunate for him.. And we know various types of women in modern society and they all are neither believers not with good conduct and it is immaterial for us.. Just judge what verses say. Don't try to change the world and those who are destined for hell fire.. Let them be as they are.. Just read verses with the tone of the Author and not in temptation and hatred to women in general.

Yes.. You are right you can divorce her.. But not outright. . Just follow what God has instructed. Don't you trust what God has instructed. So just admonish... Okay.. Then leave them from inclinations / approaching (it's not about bed and sex merely).. Then restrain her coz she is your wife. At least pay some respect to correct her if you love her.. Well if she is adament then you are free from her stubbornness coz you need to live a life of peace. So. You divorce her.. So where is beating here? Why? She is not cheating you.. She exposes her true nature to you. So it is good that come to know. . So reflect Kevin. God's instructions are so profound and amicable..

As far as I understood. You have hatred or vehement dislike about the modern way of life in the world where women are so free. Don't worry.. Men are not cool guys.. If prostitution is there then men is there as well. Women is not better than men or men is not better than women. Who is better is those who has good conduct..

Did you read 4128 ... ? Suppose women finds out that there is misconduct and turning away of his husband. .allh amazingly noy stated the same rule.. Like for gay and lesbians rules are different. Women is not in a place to admonish to one who has misconducts in him. practically not possible with the nature of misbehaving men.. Women cannot keep him away from inclinations practically not possible coz he will anyway reach her.. Restraining is also practically not possible for women. So. Only option after some time is to get separation if he doesn't reform... But man has the capacity so God commanded to try three steps with women.
So Kevin.. Reflect verses with God's tone and not with the society you live... Just leave the society aside and go with the flow of the verse.
Yes.. Women has her own responsibility and men has his. But it doesn't mean women is like a servant be at home and keep serving men. Let men do His duty and women Hers. After all even in modern society women are doing so well looking after children and looking after every matter at home.. Don't they.. They have inborn quality to it even she lives in USA or England or Germany or china or India.. Women has her nature. But it doesn't mean women should be at home only living for husband.. No way. I admire your mother and father.. Yes.. If she is happy then what else? But women can do many things what man can do as well and there are a lot women cannot do what man cannot do.. Can you send only the women to war to fight with men of another nation. Impossible. Never succeed. Hardwork is part of men and it is still manifest in the world.. I feel crying when I see men in extreme heat doing construction work at extreme height and I don't see any women there. But all women live what men do build.. But women has capacity to do what she can and it is obvious... Coz modern men is so generous to allow them to do so.. Yes pros and cons there.. But just don't worry it's God's Earth... Things happen according to His will. .
Husband works and women cooks looks good when one is a kid.. Coz children wants things and mother provides it and other things father provides it.. But women cannot be restricted only for that. She is a free creature.. Let her live on her own and be responsible too for a family... God has not made women for only Cooking and looking after children... Husbands has to give her all happy moments for what she does what man wants. Women has freedom like men. Husbands cannot control it while she is right. If she misbehaves then react but not when she is right. Let her live her life while you be her husband. No one is possession of another. Try to understand it.. Women were treated by Messenger's beyond what you depict in your views.. If a wife is believer and good person why to treat her bad while to be agaisnt her own dreams..
If you love Allah, just reflect with His verses and not be prejudiced.. Perhaps God guide you remove misconceptions...
No yester era women were good and modern era women bad here.. All are same . Every era good and bad people are blended.. So don't give certificate to those of our ancestors. . If you love true guidance, pls reflect in comprehensive manner leaving narrow minded attitude towards women that you encounter... Yes.. Perhaps every women you encountered could have been evil.. But God's verses not about them... Got me..?

Wakas

Kevin, you clearly haven't read Quran434.com

Of course you can't punish someone based on "probable" cause. That's absurd. When I say "probably" I was drawing examples as to where the whupping may be applied. So from my understanding a whupping can be applied in the following senarios-

• The woman is engaging in adultery with another man and it has come to your knowledge.

• The woman is disobedient. She usurps your authority in the household and refuses to listen to you. This causes chaos in the household and disorder.

The Arabic of 434 says "...and from those whom you fear (imperfect) nushuz..." but you're saying they have already committed adultery or been disobedient. Does that make sense to you?

Don't worry, you can show your view is at least plausible by finding one example in Quran of the word "fear" (imperfect tense) being used for something that has already happened.

Let us know the result, and by result, I mean actual verses in Quran where you found this.