Back to square one with the translation of 4:34?
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Kevin, you clearly haven't read Quran434.com
The Arabic of 434 says "...and from those whom you fear (imperfect) nushuz..." but you're saying they have already committed adultery or been disobedient. Does that make sense to you?
Don't worry, you can show your view is at least plausible by finding one example in Quran of the word "fear" (imperfect tense) being used for something that has already happened.
Let us know the result, and by result, I mean actual verses in Quran where you found this.
Yes.. You are right.. Adultery never took place and not even adultery was spoken in the verse.. It is not the theme of the verse even..
But fear and imperfect tense question little weird to me personally .. Word FEAR itself has a concern.. Whether one takes fear or some other possible meaning it doesn't matter but.. Husband has fear / concern (imperfect verb or tense whatever) . Something has trigured for husband to fear/concern.. Though fear is imperfect verb, the reasons for fear is justified and already exist.. That's why husband is recommended to admonish etc.. No need to admonish on anyone who has not done anything wrong at all or without even a hint or sign of such misconduct.. . Admonish on what and for what?
Wife's misconduct is imperfect?? There is something going on and it is obvious.... The word used Fear (imperfect verb) rightly coz it was not for one person advice of God but for anyone who would face such situations... But if God used feared (perfect verb) it directly talking to those who are already in such situations.. -
Kevin, A lot of words but little evidence...
DRB in 434 is 1st verb form
DRB as "beat" is 2nd verb form according to Classical Arabic dictionaries -thus the only interpretation for you is strike/hit (i.e. once) You probably have no clue about that.Where in Quran does it allow for punishment for a "probably"? ;D
Stop wasting everyone's time and provide actual evidenced answers to the many points raised in www.Quran434.com
www.Quran434.com was posted in Islamaphobe forum with a $1000 prize to refute it as per Quran and they couldn't. Feel free to take up the challenge.
Brother Wakas,
I have read your article 2-3 times. You obviously have worked very hard on this subject. However, in my view, "cite them" is an incomplete sentence in both English and Arabic languages and need a subject, verb and possibly a complement in order to clear the intended meaning. So, the conclusion is not accurate or final. "To ignore them" or "to isolate them" are correctly fitting to the word اضربوھن as well as these meanings are in accordance with the context and provide a solution also.
Peace!
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peace,
jkhan,
"fear" in 4128 is perfect
434 "fear" is imperfectTMTT,
https//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=4&verse=34#(4341)
In the Arabic there is an object attached to the verb, i.e.
"cite them"CONJ – prefixed conjunction wa (and)
V – 2nd person masculine plural imperative verb
PRON – subject pronoun
PRON – 3rd person feminine plural object pronounBut yes it would have been nicer to say "cite them to the prophet/authority" BUT the interesting thing about 435 is it automatically assumes the authority is aware of the situation and is involved. The traditional understanding just assumes they were notified somehow but it wasn't mentioned in Quran. But let's look at one of the earliest works in the field
in "K. al nasikh wa-l-mansukh" by Abu Ubaid al-Qasim b. Sallam (d. 224AH/839), one of the earliest works in its field, it comments on the tafsir/interpretation of 435 and says "the story establishes the principle that the spouses may withdraw their invitation to the authorities to act". Thus, it is clear from the traditional commentary the spouse would inform the court/authority of the problem, before they intervened. This provides a perfect link with DaRaBa and all points to one answer in a situation of no reconciliation and the partner in the wrong will not initiate divorce/release, the step prior to the authority intervening is for one partner to cite/indicate the other (to the authority).
And as you know since you've read Quran434.com this provides perfect coherence internally in Quran, 4128, 581-4, 4357 etc etc. There is no other understanding that comes close.
Also bear in mind the Quran does not, AFAIK, use "cites an example to the believers/audience". i.e. who the citing is done to. I'd have to check this but at most it would be uncommon.
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jkhan,
"fear" in 4128 is perfect
434 "fear" is imperfect[
Obviously.. That's why I said your question to KDC seems little weird..
Below is my last reply..
The word used Fear (imperfect verb) rightly coz it was not for one person advice of God but for anyone who would face such situations... But if God used feared (perfect verb) it directly talking to those who are already in such situations..
434 is general instruction for anyone who would encounter misconduct in their wife..
4128 is specifically oriented to those women who indeed realized that their husbands having misconducts..
So fear 434 imperfect and 4128 perfect...have you read my reply correctly you would not respond what you responded as above.
All I have to say again is your question to KDC is weird and not logical.. -
Dear Brother Wakas!
Thank you for your clarification. It seems totally logical now. )
Peace!
