Rituals Prayers Methods - how to perform

Iyyaka

Peace stillearning,

Lets try again

Was everything the prophet received from Jabreel documented in the Quran?

That's a good question.
If we take the sura 81 for example we can tell that it is divided in 2 parts

Part 1 verses 1-14
Part 2 verses 15-29.
The expression in verse 19 "Indeed,it is surely the saying of an honorable messenger." refers to the Part 1 (and messenger refers here to jabreel...).
But in the Part 2 = whose speaking ? not so easy to answer when we forget for a moment to look at the text in the light of our belief

good_logic

Peace Athar2022 .
You ask ,quote
"You choose a select few verses and leave the rest of the Quran, why is that ?"

Because they are relevant to the subject we were discussing. I replied to your questions and selected the verses you quoted too.or have you missed reading them.
You have not answered many of my questions why?

You also say,quote
"I see that you are fond of Number 19, every Muslim should be, this is our prayer to Allah when we are ending our Salah"

I am fond of all the numbers from 1 to 114. From number 1 -FATIHA, the key to contact my Lord when I do my salat, to number 114- AL NAAS-when I seek refuge on my Lord from the jokers and Iblees.
Number 3 helps me when I close my salat like my Lord orders here
318
شَهِدَ اللَّهُ أَنَّهُ لا إِلٰهَ إِلّا هُوَ وَالمَلٰئِكَةُ وَأُولُوا العِلمِ قائِمًا بِالقِسطِ لا إِلٰهَ إِلّا هُوَ العَزيزُ الحَكيمُ
God bears witness that there is no god except He, and so do the angels and those who possess knowledge. Truthfully and equitably, He is the absolute god; there is no god but He, the Almighty, Most Wise.

So I just say AHSHADU AN LA ILAAH ILLA ALLAH WAHDAHU LA SHARIKA LAHU. God Alone ,no partners with him in my salat.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

stillearning

Quote

Lets try again

Was everything the prophet received from Jabreel documented in the Quran?
Allah knows the best.
I am a believer of Allah and Allah orders me to follow the Prophet (S.A.W), the sayings and deeds of the Prophet are a part of my faith.

Interesting I think you are deliberately avoiding answering the question, because you know that it wont fit with your narrative

You said the method of prayer was revealed to the prophet during Isra. So how did the prophet/muslims pray before Isra?
The correct word is Salah, The Gift of Salah came to us through the Messenger (S.A.W) after Isra.
Deen did not complete in 1 day, it took years, 23 years.

Again completely avoided the the question. Deen took 23 yrs but did the muslims/prophet perform Salah before Isra or not? or did it take 23 years to complete Salah

I asked you where the method of prayer as revealed during the journey of Isra documented & your response;
Is Rasul-Allah (S.A.W) Not Enough for me? IRasul-Allah showed us how to pray and all of us Muslims Sunni or Shia whoever they maybe, we have the
same method.

Again not even a vague attempt to answer my question.

Unless you were born with innate knowledge, where is your evidence for the method of Salah you have been tryong to explain

We Establish the prayer, we don't lie on the bed and then establish our prayer.

Fusion

Good

I see that you are fond of Number 19, every Muslim should be, this is our prayer to Allah when we are ending our Salah

اَللّٰھُمَّ صَلِّ عَلٰی مُحَمَّدٍ وَّ عَلٰٓی اٰلِ مُحَمَّدٍ کَمَا صَلَّیْتَ عَلٰٓی اِبْرَاھِیْمَ وَ عَلٰٓی اٰلِ اِبْرَاھِیْمَ اِنَّکَ حَمِیْدٌ مَّجِیْدٌ

اَللّٰھُمَّ بَارِکْ عَلٰی مُحَمَّدٍ وَّ عَلٰٓی اٰلِ مُحَمَّدٍ کَمَا بَارَکْتَ عَلٰٓی اِبْرَاھِیْمَ وَ عَلٰٓی اٰلِ اِبْرَاھِیْمَ اِنَّکَ حَمِیْدٌ مَّجِیْدٌ

I had the same understanding. I would like to post a question, what is wrong if a Muslim recite the above dua while establishing the salat. It’s a simple dua that we want Almighty to shower his blessings on the prophet and his AAl. We usually say the same thing when we greet our close friend that may god have blessing and mercy on you and your children.. it does not mean we are associating partners with Allah.,,right.? Yes am aware of those Muslims who cross the boundary for praising the messenger but it all depends on the intention.

Coming back to the thread which I started. My purpose was to understand that how come such an establish act or ritual of worship is not mentioned in Quran step wise while at same time Wudo is clearly mentioned?.
Unless the act of prayer is or has been the same among all previous prophets nations and so need not be mentioned.

At the same time I also find it strange that there are verses in Quran which depicts strong punishment or shows god may ask those people who do not establish prayer… so if this is such a big thing for god almighty, surely he will not leave the method of practicing prayer to some scholars who came hundreds of years after prophet death and write those hadiths books to explain how Muslims pray.. does not make sense. What about this folks who were alive at the 50 or 100 years.. they do not have these Fiqah or hadith books…
I hope my point is clear because for any punishment or a strong statement by God for those who forgot their prayers..not makes all sense to at least mention the method of prayer… yes the essential elements are mentioned like ruko qayam etc. but not exactly how Muslims pray today..
Salam

Athar2022

Salaam athar 2022

You have not answered any of my questions, even though they were short and required simple answers.

Lets try again

Was everything the prophet received from Jabreel documented in the Quran?
You said the method of prayer was revealed to the prophet during Isra. So how did the prophet/muslims pray before Isra?
I asked you where the method of prayer as revealed during the journey of Isra documented & your response;

You obviously consider yourself to be a very knowledgeable person, so can you please be more specific and post the documented source.

Sorry you did not grasp my point, it was response to where i pray. At sporting events usually 2 sides and often I pray for the success of my side(s) but more often than not my prayers are not answered. Hope that makes sense. If not I will simplify it further for you

Thank you for that, however I don't think Allah is based just in any specific place. Perhaps, guessing from your name, Bullay Shah's poetry about Masjids, temples etc is not a bad read/listen

Rather than lengthy discussion lets keep things brief & simple so the wood does not get mixed with the trees. Then hopefully we can learn from each other

Walikum -us- Salam,

I cannot keep things more simpler than this.

Allah knows the Best.
You are not the authority and neither is me.

2 and 3
I speak basic English, so my reply is very very Simple and Brief
Deen took 23 years to complete, we Muslims of Today have the complete Deen with us (It did not come in pieces to us).
Quran is my Book and it orders me to follow the Messenger (S.A.W).

How Muslims prayed before Isra, Allah knows the Best, I pray how Rasul-Allah (S.A.W) left it with us.
The differences among different sects of us the Muslims are Minor, my Shia friend prays with me in my Masjid and I pray with him in his Masjid.

We Establish the prayer, we don't lie on the bed and then establish our prayer.

How do you establish it ?

Athar2022

I had the same understanding. I would like to post a question, what is wrong if a Muslim recite the above dua while establishing the salat. It’s a simple dua that we want Almighty to shower his blessings on the prophet and his AAl. We usually say the same thing when we greet our close friend that may god have blessing and mercy on you and your children.. it does not mean we are associating partners with Allah.,,right.? Yes am aware of those Muslims who cross the boundary for praising the messenger but it all depends on the intention.

Coming back to the thread which I started. My purpose was to understand that how come such an establish act or ritual of worship is not mentioned in Quran step wise while at same time Wudo is clearly mentioned?.
Unless the act of prayer is or has been the same among all previous prophets nations and so need not be mentioned.

At the same time I also find it strange that there are verses in Quran which depicts strong punishment or shows god may ask those people who do not establish prayer… so if this is such a big thing for god almighty, surely he will not leave the method of practicing prayer to some scholars who came hundreds of years after prophet death and write those hadiths books to explain how Muslims pray.. does not make sense. What about this folks who were alive at the 50 or 100 years.. they do not have these Fiqah or hadith books…
I hope my point is clear because for any punishment or a strong statement by God for those who forgot their prayers..not makes all sense to at least mention the method of prayer… yes the essential elements are mentioned like ruko qayam etc. but not exactly how Muslims pray today..
Salam

Walikum-us-Salam My Brother,
You must have read the Ayaat on Rasul-Allah's obedience in the Quran, there are many.

بِسۡمِ ٱللهِ ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ
لَّقَدۡ كَانَ لَكُمۡ فِى رَسُولِ ٱللَّهِ أُسۡوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ۬ لِّمَن كَانَ يَرۡجُواْ ٱللَّهَ وَٱلۡيَوۡمَ ٱلۡأَخِرَ وَذَكَرَ ٱللَّهَ كَثِيرً۬ا (٢١)
Indeed, in the Messenger of Allah you have an excellent example for whoever has hope in Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah often.

There are many other Ayaat in the Quran that command us to follow the Prophet, when we regularly read the Quran we come to know of i, very well.

And yes there are strict Orders to Establish the Salah.
Do you think Muslims may have quit it after Rasul-Allah(S.A.W) ?
All of them ?
And after quitting it, now they are finding the ways on how to do it ?
Maybe establish the prayer while laying in the bed ?

good_logic

Peace Fusion
You ask, quote
"what is wrong if a Muslim recite the above dua while establishing the salat. It’s a simple dua that we want Almighty to shower his blessings on the prophet and his AAl. We usually say the same thing when we greet our close friend that may god have blessing and mercy on you and your children.. it does not mean we are associating partners with Allah.,,right.?

Salat and dua are not the same thing. You can do dua for whoever you want however you want and whenever you want on anyone.
The salat is a private designated slot to contact the Creator to feed your soul. It should be kept for GOD alone. Aquimi the salat LIDHIKRI.. WA ANNA AL MASAJIDA LI ALLAH FALA TADUU MAA ALLAH AHADA.
There is no problem doing dua on anyone you want to any other time ,why mix it with your salat? Also the potential aim and motive of adding others in your salat is favouritism of messenger or elevated people that can then be passed on as idols down the generations as has happened down the religions.

Otherwise we might as well innovate any dua in our salat but that is not what salat is for.
Just my view.
GOD bless you.
Peace..

Noon_waalqalami

There are many other Ayaat in the Quran that command us to follow the Prophet

peace, not one verse (timebound) cannot follow, greet, bless, etc., any deceased prophets.

timebound example given applicable at that time, place, and circumstances

3358 والذىن and the ones ىوذون pestering المومنىن the believers (m/p) والمومنت and the believers (f/p) بغىر in other than ما what اكتسبوا earned they of فقد so verily احتملوا bear they of بهتنا defamation of واثما and detriment of مبىنا clear of 3359 ىاىها O you النبى the prophet قل say لازوجك to spouses your (sing.) وبناتك and daughters your (sing.) ونسا and womenfolk المومنىن the believers ىدنىن downed they علىهن upon them من of جلبىبهن garments theirs (f/p) ذلك such ادنى lowermost (least) ان that ىعرفن recognized they (f/p) فلا so not ىوذىن pestered (f/p) وكان and be الله the God غفورا forgiver of رحىما merciful of 3360 لىن surely, if لم not ىنته ceased المنفقون the hypocrites والذىن and the ones فى in قلوبهم hearts theirs مرض illness والمرجفون and those gossiping فى in المدىنه the city لنغرىنك let subdue we you (sing.) بهم in/concerning them ثم furthermore لا not ىجاورونك will remain neighbors your (sing.) فىها therein الا except قلىلا little of

https//i.postimg.cc/zDtRw83j/ch33v53-62.jpg

good_logic

Peace All.
What is it about men s religions that appeal to us?
Let us just create "Compare religions .com" and choose what takes our fancy or the cheapest or the most fashionable!!!

I have been down that path, Christianity ,Judaism, Buddhism Islam,...And many sects of these. Each kicking GOD aside and putting their own human/legends gods at the top. All frightening me with other than GOD mortals that cannot benefit me or harm me.. Giving me their rules and conditions and putting a blindfold over my eyes and covering my intellect to follow them blindly.
Enough is enough folks.
Just as I am trying to wake up from my past nightmare journey to travel on my own path ,people are still trying to pull me back in with false arguments and nonsense.. Well there is a stronger force leading me now. My creator . I am not going to revert back to your religions

There is a new way now and the seal has opened for these coming generations all so called scriptures from GOD are now widely available for everyone, check them out and go your way with your eyes open/ Do not fall for false traps and outdated beliefs. Search your truth you owe it to yourself
GOD s way cannot be in these divided and contradictory ways of feuding humans .each proud of their religions to please their ego and corrupt motives.

We are all one race and we should have one religion.
Be good, do good love thy neighbour exist at least in paper in all your religions.
My final post in this thread unless to answer a simple query .
Sorry about the off topic.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.

Athar2022

There are strict Orders in the Quran to Establish the Salah.

Do you think Muslims may have quit the Salah after Rasul-Allah(S.A.W) ?

All of them ?

And after quitting it, now they are finding new ways on how to do it ?

Maybe establish the prayer while laying in the bed ?

Further more

We Shia Muslims and Sunni Muslims have remained rivals of each other throughout the history.

Shia Muslims could have quit the Salah of the Sunnis and could have made an "Entire New way" to "Establish the Prayer".

Laying down, sitting, sleeping, running, etc.

But they did not, Why ?

Even Great Plagues where Millions of people vanished from the face of the earth did not end the Establishment of Salah.

The Prophet left us with this gift and if the entire population of disbelievers gather together, we will not quit it, Insha-Allah, it is in our hearts.

jkhan

[quote author=Athar2022

The Prophet left us with this gift and if the entire population of disbelievers gather together, we will not quit it, Insha-Allah, it is in our hearts.

Oh shame boy... So prophet left this for you and not God?...

God says take refuge in God from Satan ...that's the fundamental way... Seek refuge in Allah from all Satans.. But shame on these sunni shia and all groups and they go to a place in Makka and take few pebbles and throw at satan... Is it how God ordered to chase the Satan.. Well that's become fariseeming to these blinded people.. Quran never ordered it.. Yes you make blaspheme on the prophet who is innocent for all these.. Coz for you people these are imperative rituals where you find peace... Well that's what Satan wants.. Find peace in him.. You are trying to rationalise your shia friend with entire shia community.. While the hatred between them within the religion is engraved.. Just a hilarious way you have picked..

More to come wait..

ade_cool

Salam Athar2022

I just quoted the Orders of Almighty, did not say anything else, lets not impose our thinking on others, lets follow the Quran with an open mind

Nobody has power to force anyone else here. Yes, let's follow the guidance in Quran.

Here are the verses again, very clear

Quran

3321 Indeed, in the Messenger of Allah you have an excellent example for whoever has hope in Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah often.

Yes ...as mentioned in the verse, in messenger of God there is excellent example.

The thing that Sunni fail to understand is the excellent example is not supposed to be found in sahih hadith books.

Let's take a look at this hadith

https//sunnah.com/bukhari5133
Narrated `Aisha

that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Is marrying a six year old girl an excellent example?

480 He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian.

Yes ...as mentioned in the verse, whoever obeys the messenger has obeyed God.

The thing that Sunni fail to understand is obeying sahih hadith books is not obeying messenger.

Let's take a look at this hadith
https//sunnah.com/muslim1691a
'Abdullah b. 'Abbas reported that 'Umar b. Khattab sat on the pulpit of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and said

Verily Allah sent Muhammad (ﷺ) with truth and He sent down the Book upon him, and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him. We recited it, retained it in our memory and understood it. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) awarded the punishment of stoning to death (to the married adulterer and adulteress) and, after him, we also awarded the punishment of stoning, I am afraid that with the lapse of time, the people (may forget it) and may say We do not find the punishment of stoning in the Book of Allah, and thus go astray by abandoning this duty prescribed by Allah. Stoning is a duty laid down in Allah's Book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or it there is pregnancy, or a confession.

Is stoning adulterer obeying messenger?

The adulteress and the adulterer, you shall lash each of them with one hundred lashes, and do not let any pity overtake you regarding the system of God if you believe in God and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment.

As per 242, stoning adulterer cannot be obeying messenger. If we obey sahih hadith books, we are actually disobeying God. And this creates contradiction of 480 in which it is mentioned that those who obey messenger has indeed obeyed God.

jkhan

Boy I have the best ever example from Prophet.. You know what.. .. Pls hadith followers if you really love prophet pls follow this example.. Coz this is the best..
Be illiterate.. Pls don't educate your children...thats the best thing you can do to follow illiterate prophet.. Why not follow? Do you disregard illiterate prophet by educating yout children.. If he was illiterate then ensure by following him... Being illiterate is showing huge respect to him..
Nonsensical people who thinks every word spoken is against them..

jkhan

All food was lawful to the children of Israel except that which Israel had forbidden to himself, before the Taurat was revealed. Say Bring then the Taurat and read it, if you are truthful.

God says this verse to Prophet to say to Jews.. Isn't it?
Why God says to bring the Torah ONLY?... why not Tulmad? In it is the clarifications of Torah according blinded Jews same as blinded Hadith followers.. Was Torah enough? Yes. That's the book.. Did God say He revealed Torah and another book or Injeel and another book for jews and Christians respectively? No..
Use logic emotional bunch of hadith boasters.. So those who follow Quran is not following messenger.. rotfl rotfl rotfl... So if we follow Hadith books of any nature.. We follow messenger.. Wow.. Is your brain in your foot..?
So literally obey Allah is Quran and obey messenger means Hadith books.. Isn't that you people try to convince.. rotfl

WHAT DO YOU FOLLOW FROM QURAN..? do you follow anything in Quran.. Tell me in your daily life.. At least your lovely shahada.. Is it from QURAN..?
Where is Quran in your life.. So you follow Hadith alone.. Only Hadith.. So you think following hadith makes following obeying Messenger.. So where is the obeying of God.. How do you obey God.. You don't follow Quran.. So how you obey God.. God says in Quran for steps before salat.. Do you obey God here.. You don't do four steps.. You obey hadith.. Obey Allah and obey messenger.. But you clearly disobeying Allah.. Just nonsensical.. Super hilarious..

truth

Think.

You want to follow the messenger's example?

He never said a single 'durood' as his followers do.
He never said 'ashadu enne muhammedan abduhu wa resuluhu' either.

Try that as proof if you want to emulate his example.

jkhan

243 And do not mix the truth with falsehood or conceal the truth while you know

They themselves collected Hadith and they themselves removed many millions hadiths and made books such buhari, tirmidi etc etc etc.. Human invented books in the name of Prophet..

Who is mixing falsehood with truth, who is concealing truth ?

Blinded without knowing to them... And they call the followers of Quran erroneous? They should feel shame for that... Real believers will always follow God's Book and they will choose the right guidance from it... God guides... God can and will misguides who He wills with HIs books... that's for sure.. If misguided they are not believers... So no worries...Believers definitely know they are believers or not... if one says i don't know.. that's enough for his hypocrisy... God addresses o you who believe is not to be in doubt.. Hypocrites know their hypocrisy.. disbelievers know their disbelief... and believers know that they are believers..
keep following hadith and call yourself believers, who cares...

jkhan

1094 "So if you are in doubt, , about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters."

Mohamed was just a human being like me and all... But selected Prophet and a Messenger to deliver God's Messages to His people in God's Will not in Mohamed's own will he applied for the post of Prophet...
O my fellow believers note the above verse meticulously... God says if you are in doubt... That's a hefty statement from God.. It seems he has doubted or had concern.. let's hope was not.. but something was there for Allah to state it.. But question to those who follow hadith and specially those who say Mohamed did go to high heaven and met all prophets one by one and talked to them and in the end met God and Got Salat (5 times) after Musa begged from 50 to 5... well He did something called Asra... Whatever... So This Prophet has clearly seen everything Hell fire people in it and Paradise and all other Angels etc.. what else he saw who knows.. The point is For This Prophet God orders in the above verse manifestly saying "then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you." why IF YOU ARE IN DOUBT....
Super funny ... isn't it? The man who met God and saw all miraculous things in the High Heaven is in doubt and God orders to go and ask those who got the scripture before... rotfl rotfl

Truth is O! blinded people who follow hadith, This prophet was innocent from what you claim.. He got the message but not sure .. not convinced... You know why Quran was revealed to him in an extended period and not all at once in order for him to get himself first assured... O followers of Hadith, if i was mohamed and gone to meet God and high heaven i won't act so cheaply like him doubting or going to those who were given scripture before..

Shame on you guys... never grasped what qurans says..
at least in this forum that you are wrong...how can it be possible while they are blinded..if God sent astray, can our words make them ponder..

jkhan

6006 “There has certainly been for you in them an excellent example (hasana) for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day. “

3321 “There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent example (hasana) for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day

Just carefully notice both above verse... Identical isn't it? Only those who deeply ponder would get the meaning ..
I don't know why Hasana is translated as Example.. anyway..

Note the verses.. Within Quran 6006 you get the Aswat Hasana of those people and Ibrahim.. And within Quran we get Aswat Hasana of Messenger..

stillearning

Is marrying a six year old girl an excellent example?

Shocking part is how many pro-hadith group jus gloss over this. It is also one of the major facts used by anti muslim groups to attack islam.

Fusion

Shocking part is how many pro-hadith group jus gloss over this. It is also one of the major facts used by anti muslim groups to attack islam.

Obviously the messenger of God would never commit such a thing.
I wanna know what is the truth then regarding this issue?
Any historical facts proves otherwise.

Thanks