I honestly don’t think that Quran contains entire guidance for how to pray
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https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611629.0
Peace
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What is praying to you?
And why do you think you need a "standardized operational procedure" for it?If praying is making a connection with the one source, creator, god, father of all or whatever name one have for it, wouldn't you think that such action will be as natural as eating or sleeping?
Do you also need a "standardized operational procedure" for eating and sleeping?
And in case you're wondering, yes the hadiths and the mishna also have a detailed "standardized operational procedure" for eating and sleeping. -
peace, friend.
I don't believe hadith offer a detail explanation of salah, either. You'll find isolated narrations here and there like "I saw the prophet pray with his hands here" or "so and so said the prophet would do this many rakat during this or that salah"
The standard form(s) of salah whether sunni, shia, ibadi comes down via tradition, not hadtih. If anything it's passed down within madhabs.
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Peace everyone.
It seems to me that without the Hadith you can’t know how to pray. By the way I don’t know what to believe and what not to believe.
If you believe that the Quran on its own has all of the instructions then post it here.
Love and thanks
Peace bro..
As u discussed with you privately in whatsapp, you have not got the matter right..
If you have anything preconceived and if you look for that on Quran you won't find it. If you want the identical steps of what conventional Muslims do practice in Quran and based on that if you claim that Quran has not clearly defined how to perform Salat then you indirectly accept that what hadith followers doing is right coz you want something of explanation like that.
Quran is clear what one has to do when it comes to Salat. If one has perceived it then it his own business with God.Thanks again..
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peace,
The common story goes traditional Muslim prayer comes from sunna (precedent), passed down from generation to generation. Not from hadith.
If you look into hadith you will find conflicting accounts of the prayer method, see p165 here
https//samensterk.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/mohammed-abdul-malek-a-study-of-the-quran.pdfSome "Quran based" authors have come up with prayer methods similar to the Traditional Muslim prayer using The Quran. Whether you think their research is sound or not depends on your take on it.
Background
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html -
The common story goes traditional Muslim prayer comes from sunna (precedent), passed down from generation to generation. Not from hadith.
hadith = story
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Where did GOD ask us to follow Hadiths , sunna or any other authority book/ways .. in His book?
Well,,we can only follow what Qoran clearly asks us to follow. That is Qoran and Millat Ibrahim.
GOD could have just said to follow only Qoran and explained in detail what is Millat Ibrahim . In this case there would have been no cause to mention "Follow Millat Ibrahim".
However GOD has corrected for us all the corrupted elements and clarified for us in His detailed book that we will find all our answers about the deen in there.As far as "The Salat" is concerned, the standing,bowing ,prostrating in one unit is simple and standardised and cannot be corrupted. What can be corrupted are adding more units, the timing and preparation and the sayings in it.
Believing in GOD and believing GOD requires TRIAL and HELP from Him. Connecting to GOD through The Salat is to help grow our soul and gain more Taqwa.
Do what you understand from Qoran and use/ask GOD to help you sort out your issues and queries ..GOD will respond.
GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
Peace everyone.
It seems to me that without the Hadith you can’t know how to pray. By the way I don’t know what to believe and what not to believe.
If you believe that the Quran on its own has all of the instructions then post it here.
Love and thanks
Peace Brother Ervin, please clarify, be more specific, are you asking about Du'a or Salat. handshake
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Peace everyone.
It seems to me that without the Hadith you can’t know how to pray. By the way I don’t know what to believe and what not to believe.
If you believe that the Quran on its own has all of the instructions then post it here.
Love and thanks
Dear Ervin,
What is the issue if you pray the prayer as per Hadith? as long as you read Quran verses and ask for his blessings. Nothing is wrong in that. Do not over complicate things for yourself.
The message of Quran needs to be understood in essence which is total submission to Allah and how do you do that? By at least listening to the actual words said by almighty which is The Quran. Read it first and ask God to open your heart to understand his message. In doing so when you read any hadiths you will know in your heart which is the truth? Not all hadiths are fabricated, many are just collected words or acts of the prophet which is in conformity to Quran teachings rest are all politically motivated by the rulers of those times to rule over the mass in the name of God (which is true for other religions too).
Yes as an academic discussion Hadith is not the word of God and the only hadith is the Quran guarded by almighty himself from any corruption.Thanks
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There's no mention of unicorn in the Qur'an. But, maybe, as unicorns don't exist, there's also no "how to pray" thing.
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Peace,
Thanks for all my of your help with understanding. I have been thinkIng and to be honest with everyone I can’t take Quran literally.
Thanks
Your conclusion is partially correct!
It is He who has sent down to you the Book; in it are verses precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation , they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation . And no one knows its interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.
Please study the above verse God bless you.
peace
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Your conclusion is partially correct!
It is He who has sent down to you the Book; in it are verses precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation , they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation . And no one knows its interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.
Please study the above verse God bless you.
Brother that is the most wonderful reply so far, thank you. There was no mention of verse no but I look it up its Chapter 37
I also found the following meaning from another source which goes likeAllah has sent down this Book to you, O Rasool! which includes verses of two kinds. The first kind consists of those verses which have definite meaning and constitute the foundation of Allah’s Laws. The second kind are figurative and explain abstract realities metaphorically. Those who tend to deviate from Allah’s Path, take the figurative verses in their literal sense thereby causing discord by interpreting these verses in their own way. Allah only knows the essence of the realities which these verses represent. Those who make a right approach to knowledge believe in the realities but can also form an idea of what they are and can perceive their significance. These are the people who are gifted with insight
peace
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Dear Ervin,
What is the issue if you pray the prayer as per Hadith? as long as you read Quran verses and ask for his blessings. Nothing is wrong in that. Do not over complicate things for yourself.
The message of Quran needs to be understood in essence which is total submission to Allah and how do you do that? By at least listening to the actual words said by almighty which is The Quran. Read it first and ask God to open your heart to understand his message. In doing so when you read any hadiths you will know in your heart which is the truth? Not all hadiths are fabricated, many are just collected words or acts of the prophet which is in conformity to Quran teachings rest are all politically motivated by the rulers of those times to rule over the mass in the name of God (which is true for other religions too).
Yes as an academic discussion Hadith is not the word of God and the only hadith is the Quran guarded by almighty himself from any corruption.Thanks
Peace... Brother and all.
@ Fusion
Simply you have assumed it wrong brother.. Don't be in a hurry to make statements.
Just because certain Hadiths do conform with Quran, and it doesn't mean that anyone can authorize to follow Hadith.. How silly that is.. For sure you have not reflected deep within quran..If Book 'A' is genuine and why one need the assistance of Book 'B' to proclaim any statement which is identical to Book 'A' and in the end tell all people to follow Book 'B'.. That's simply nonsensical .. You can't replace the genuine ... when genuine is available use it and duplicate will never be the same even everything looks identical... do you copy that? Author of book B is different to the author of book 'A'.. Author of Book B is nothing and Author of Book A (Quran) is God... even though you followed the same message you obeyed the wrong Author..
Obey Allah and obey the Messenger.. simply the same message.. and no more authors.. -
Your conclusion is partially correct!
It is He who has sent down to you the Book; in it are verses precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation , they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation . And no one knows its interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.
Please study the above verse God bless you.
peace
Peace Bro Hawk..
What are you trying to say by presenting the above verse.. Are you trying state that Salat belongs to second segment of the above verse.. You mean salat is not the foundation of the book..
Brother and all... Pls note that there are certain things that we have to do as believers for that instructions are given in black and white and those things should be done if we are believers.. Salat verses are fundamental since we have to do it on a daily basis.. It is not we are to give meaning to it and be silent.. If what one has to practice is part of verses which are unspecific ...Unspecific verses are clear within Quran where you cannot give clear cut meaning rather than assumption.. for example Dabba Ard and its arrival.. various interpretations.. but we don't have anything to follow in it and do on a daily basis for our salvation... Salat is for our salvation and it is fundamental verse.. nothing ambiguous in it... suppose verses whom one can marry.. are they fundamental of the book or unspecific? People can make everything complicated. But it doesn't mean they are..
chapter 5401 it is in a period we live perhaps unspecific but exploring quran is not an issue.. but no one can affirm that this is right on verses which are unspecific..
If fundamental verses are not clear then what is the use... only thing is they are not guided with what is right.. -
Brother that is the most wonderful reply so far, thank you. There was no mention of verse no but I look it up its Chapter 37
I also found the following meaning from another source which goes likeAllah has sent down this Book to you, O Rasool! which includes verses of two kinds. The first kind consists of those verses which have definite meaning and constitute the foundation of Allah’s Laws. The second kind are figurative and explain abstract realities metaphorically. Those who tend to deviate from Allah’s Path, take the figurative verses in their literal sense thereby causing discord by interpreting these verses in their own way. Allah only knows the essence of the realities which these verses represent. Those who make a right approach to knowledge believe in the realities but can also form an idea of what they are and can perceive their significance. These are the people who are gifted with insight
Peace Fusion you are correct! It is I like your translation/interpretation very much. The understanding of the verse Insha'Allah can help us deduce which verses are literal and which verses are otherwise.
God bless you. peace
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Salat
Thanks
Peace Ervin, Here is the definition of Sad-Lam-Waw (Salat)
ص ل و = Sad-Lam-Waw = prayer, supplication, petition, oration, eulogy, benediction, commendation, blessing, honour, magnify, bring forth, follow closely, walk/follow behind closely, to remain attached.
In a horse race when the second horse follows the first one so closely that its head always overlaps the first horse’s body that horse is called AL-MUSSALLI (i.e. the one who follows closely / remains attached).
Central portion of the back, portion from where the tail of an animal comes out, the rump.Brother Ervin the definition of salat may be of some help.
Good bless you
peace
