Chapter Ar Rahman.... Fabiayyi Aalai Rabbikuma Thukazziban
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Thank you for explaining your understanding... I am hearing that word first-time...
But point to note here is all phrases are identical but applying different meaning to each phrase looks odd for me with flow of verses.. I don't think God would have meant so.. Let me tell you why.. In "Fabiayyi Aalai Rabbikuma Thukazziban " Allah questions literally and it ends with word 'BELIE'... so what they indeed belie? Every statement God raised in the chapter is either blessings or warning or punishment etc then Allah placed this phrase as He willed.. So preceding and following verses should befit to the phrase and its core meaning.. That's why I said favor or blessing for word 'Aalai ' doesn't befit in every place in my understanding... Something else would be replaced.. You brought different meanings and you accomadated your point but it doesn't look what God meant... Your wordings are Okay but different meaning to same and identical phrase in same chapter is hard to accept. .at least in my case.. For me Allah is raising the same question again and again on the chapter by making certain statements preceded..
As of now I'm satisfied with "which of the possession of your Lord both of you belie"
Even I am happy with power / arrangement as you have translated.. But all places should be one meaning and that makes sense for me... But the chosen word for Aalai should befit to all contexts of the verses.. That's key..Thank you
Salam.You did not see the link. Meanings will be with reference to context.
Still another peculiarity is that a sentence in fact a subordinate clause, is repeated 31 times out of 78 Ayahs, indicating 32 distinct segments.
The noun ءَالَآءِ in the possessive phrase, definite by construct, stems from Root ء ل و. Ibn Faris stated
(مقاييس اللغة)
الهمزة واللام وما بعدهما في المعتلّ أصلان متباعدان أحدهما الاجتهاد* والمبالغة والثاني خلاف ذلك الأوّل
That it has divergent - contrast meanings of diligence, jurisdictive, hyperbole disposing, and other is falling short of what was requisite or what is ought, default.
Its Semantic domain is thus Performance. Performance denotes the accomplishment of a given task measured against known standards of accuracy and completeness.
It conveys meanings of execution, carrying out, carrying into action, the act of performing; doing something successfully, any recognized accomplishment.
Performance is with reference to accomplishment of a task. Thereby, the accomplished performance ءَالَآءِ will mean and refer only to what is talked about - individual piece of work of particular nature
أَوَ عَجِبْتُـمْ أَن جَآءَكُمْ ذِكْرٚ مِّن رَّبِّكُـمْ عَلَـىٰ رَجُلٛ مِّنكُـمْ لِيُنذِرَكُمْۚ
Is your rejection only because you people felt it strange that the Memoir/ Referential/Reference Book, an explicit verbal discourse, has come to you from your Sustainer Lord by revelation upon the Man of staunch monotheist belief amongst you? Its objective is that he might alarm and admonish you —
یا کیا تمہارے پس و پیش کرنے کی وجہ تمہارا یہ تعجب ہے کہ ہدایت نامہ تمہارے پاس تمہارے رب کی جانب سے آسان فہم تدوین میں پہنچا ہے جسے تم میں موجود فلسفہ توحید پر کاربند مرد پر نازل کیا گیا ہے تاکہ وہ تمہیں متنبہ کرے ۔
Root ع ج ب
وَٱذكُرُوٓا۟ إِذْ جَعَلَـكُـمْ خُلَفَآءَ مِنۢ بَعْدِ قَوْمِ نُوحٛ
And recall when He the Exalted appointed you the rulers after the fall/annihilation of the nation of Noah ; and demographically increased you quite extensively —
اور اس وقت کو یاد کرو جب ان جناب نے نوح(علیہ السلام)کی قوم کی غرقابی کے بعد کے زمانے میں تم لوگوں کو بطورخود مختار قوم بنا دیا۔
وَزَادَكُمْ فِـى ٱلْخَلْقِ بَصْۜطَةٙۖ
And He the Exalted demographically increased you quite extensively —
اور تم لوگوں کو افزوں کیا،آبادی کی تخلیق کے حوالے سے وسعت عنایت کر کے۔
Root ب س ط
فَٱذْكُرُوٓا۟ ءَالَآءَ ٱللَّهِ
Therefore, remember and acknowledge the blessings of Allah the Exalted —
اگر چاہتے ہو کہ یہ عروج برقرار رہے تو اللہ تعالیٰ کی کرم فرمائیوں کو یاد رکھو۔
لَعَلَّـكُـمْ تُفْلِحُونَ .٦٩
Adopt this attitude so that you might attain-reap the fruits of perpetual success."
تاکہ تم لوگ دائمی کامیاب اور سرخرو ہونے کے لئے کوشاں رہو"
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Peace brother Mazhar..
So you insist and accept according to your understanding that different set of meanings for this clause is matching and you are satisfied?
In that case I am not against you at all and it seems you have explored far beyond me on this subject and concluded... Honestly I didn't explore like you have studied in this matter but my inner self still propel me to take one meaning for this clause.. Your choices of meanings that you furnished I like them and it seems suits but it seems it is better keep one one clause..
Even if you say for all clauses as "So which of the executions of your Lord you both deny" .. I am sure this clause would befit to all occurences... But if you apply different set of meaning and that' befit but it may not what God meant... That's key here.. Choose what God meant in his verses not what we like... For that we need guidance from God to go for the exactness of God's verses...
Thank you brought lot of light to this topic and it think it would help anyone who wants study about this clause.. Let truth remain and let truth reach us...May Allah guide you and me and all who deserves it..
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Peace brother Mazhar..
So you insist and accept according to your understanding that different set of meanings for this clause is matching and you are satisfied?
In that case I am not against you at all and it seems you have explored far beyond me on this subject and concluded... Honestly I didn't explore like you have studied in this matter but my inner self still propel me to take one meaning for this clause.. Your choices of meanings that you furnished I like them and it seems suits but it seems it is better keep one one clause..
Even if you say for all clauses as "So which of the executions of your Lord you both deny" .. I am sure this clause would befit to all occurences... But if you apply different set of meaning and that' befit but it may not what God meant... That's key here.. Choose what God meant in his verses not what we like... For that we need guidance from God to go for the exactness of God's verses...
Thank you brought lot of light to this topic and it think it would help anyone who wants study about this clause.. Let truth remain and let truth reach us...May Allah guide you and me and all who deserves it..
Thanks.
فَبِأَىِّ Prefixed conjunction فَ which is الفاء الفصيحة + Prepositional Phrase بـِ Inseparable preposition + Declinable interrogative pronoun always in a construct. Singular; genitive.
Please also consider the verb Verb Imperfect; second person; dual; masculine ; ; Mood Indicative, evident by ; Subject Pronoun, nominative state; مصدر تَكْذِيْبٌ Verbal Noun.
الفاء الفصيحة articulate, eloquent, fluent
It can either relate to response to presumed/estimated condition since it is located only in eloquent speech. And secondly it conjuncts to an elided element whereby it adds fluency and reveals the elided element.A rhetorical question is a question used for dramatic effect, getting the point across, and is not intended to be answered by the audience the question was directed.
The question will relate to the information given, the ءَالَآءِ described.
Now you can select better words to translate it at various places. "which one of these -----of your Sustainer Lord you can publicly deny.تَكْذِيْبٌ is denying - contradicting something publicly.
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Thanks.
فَبِأَىِّ Prefixed conjunction فَ which is الفاء الفصيحة + Prepositional Phrase بـِ Inseparable preposition + Declinable interrogative pronoun always in a construct. Singular; genitive.
Please also consider the verb Verb Imperfect; second person; dual; masculine ; ; Mood Indicative, evident by ; Subject Pronoun, nominative state; مصدر تَكْذِيْبٌ Verbal Noun.
الفاء الفصيحة articulate, eloquent, fluent
It can either relate to response to presumed/estimated condition since it is located only in eloquent speech. And secondly it conjuncts to an elided element whereby it adds fluency and reveals the elided element.A rhetorical question is a question used for dramatic effect, getting the point across, and is not intended to be answered by the audience the question was directed.
The question will relate to the information given, the ءَالَآءِ described.
Now you can select better words to translate it at various places. "which one of these -----of your Sustainer Lord you can publicly deny.تَكْذِيْبٌ is denying - contradicting something publicly.
Thanks..
Yes... Rhetorical questions not necessarily be answered.. I agree.. But why the rhetorical questions were raised should be perceived by the audience so that audience no need to answer since they perceived that rhetorical questions has a valid point..
If the rhetorical question itself not clear then everything collapses..So as of now, I remain with this understanding for all the clauses (rhetoric questions) of chapter 55
"So which of the executions of your Lord both of you belie"
Thank you for assisting me in this regard voluntarily .. Yes.. possessions / power would suit but executions may not go away from the dictionary meaning as you emphasised as well meaning of the verse.
Thank you brother.. But I know you prefer different meaning. It's Okay.. It's not a big deal here.. No violations of the verse.. -
Thanks..
Yes... Rhetorical questions not necessarily be answered.. I agree.. But why the rhetorical questions were raised should be perceived by the audience so that audience no need to answer since they perceived that rhetorical questions has a valid point..
If the rhetorical question itself not clear then everything collapses..So as of now, I remain with this understanding for all the clauses (rhetoric questions) of chapter 55
"So which of the executions of your Lord both of you belie"
Thank you for assisting me in this regard voluntarily .. Yes.. possessions / power would suit but executions may not go away from the dictionary meaning as you emphasised as well meaning of the verse.
Thank you brother.. But I know you prefer different meaning. It's Okay.. It's not a big deal here.. No violations of the verse..Surely, better one, since it could relate to the sense of previous statement. "you belie" be taken to future. The question is about their future conduct in public.
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Salam Jkhan!
Have to focus on the word تکذبن or تکذبان which means "you both are being belied". The shadda and kasra on letter ذ changes the meaning from you belied to you are/being belied. The word آلاء is not derived from علی nor from الی as most of the scholars suggest however, it is related with ھؤلآء (Reference Lane's Lexican p86 (of 3039)). It has nothing to do with bounties or favours. It belongs to things or matters or ayats of the Quran.
ف = So/then
ب = by/with
ای = only
ءآلاء = this/these
تکذبٰن = you both are being beliedSo the literal translation is "Then by only this/these you both are being belied?".
Peace!
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Salam Jkhan!
Have to focus on the word تکذبن or تکذبان which means "you both are being belied". The shadda and kasra on letter ذ changes the meaning from you belied to you are/being belied. The word آلاء is not derived from علی nor from الی as most of the scholars suggest however, it is related with ھؤلآء (Reference Lane's Lexican p86 (of 3039)). It has nothing to do with bounties or favours. It belongs to things or matters or ayats of the Quran.
ف = So/then
ب = by/with
ای = only
ءآلاء = this/these
تکذبٰن = you both are being beliedSo the literal translation is "Then by only this/these you both are being belied?".
Peace!
Peace.. TMTT..
good to see you back..
But did you check whether preceding verses would give any meaning if taken as 'then with only these you both are being belied'...... You have missed out Rabbikuma as well.
Thank you.. -
Salam JKhan!
Yes I missed ربکما because focus was on the meanings of ءالآء and تکذبٰن
Yes, by putting these meanings in the whole surah, i come to know that these meanings fit perfectly.
Since Allah is Truth/Reality, you cannot belie Him or His Ayat based on truth/reality but He and His Ayat can belie you (humans/jinns)Peace!
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Salam JKhan!
Yes I missed ربکما because focus was on the meanings of ءالآء and تکذبٰن
Yes, by putting these meanings in the whole surah, i come to know that these meanings fit perfectly.
Since Allah is Truth/Reality, you cannot belie Him or His Ayat based on truth/reality but He and His Ayat can belie you (humans/jinns)Peace!
Thanks..
If perfectly fit according to your understanding then no one is between you and your understanding.. Always keep some space so that Allah May guide us if we wronged or misunderstood... Self satisfaction without misguidance and stubbornness invest satisfaction in seeking knowledge... Keep up good works..
Thank you.. -
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Dear brother Mazhar!
You can translate it as "Then only this (ayah/truth) of your (dual) Lord belies you?"
Peace!
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It will be patently incorrect. The alif is the subject of verb, second person dual.
Salam!
The word تکذبٰن is derived from the root word ک ذ ب, which means "to deny" or "to reject." The addition of the ت (ta) prefix transforms the verb into its passive form, suggesting being denied or rejected.
ف Then
ب with/by
ای only
ءاَلآء this
ربِ Lord of
کُما you both
تُ You are
کَذِٗب being denied/rejected/belied
ان The suffix اٰن (aan) at the end of تُكَذِّبان (tukadhdhibaan) is known as the "حالة عاطفة" (hālatu ʿāṭifah) or the "emphatic mood" in Arabic grammar. This suffix adds a sense of emphasis, intensity, or heightened emotion to the verb. In the specific context of فبای آلاء ربكما تكذبان (fabayi aalaa'i rabbikumaa tukadhdhibaan), the emphatic mood conveys a stronger emphasis on the denial or rejection being discussed. It intensifies the idea that both the parties are vehemently being denied/rejected/belied.However, I am with a view that this suffix اٰن (aan) is added to the prefix تُ in order to make it a dual "you" as in اَلجَمعَان، یخصفان، تذودان، یسجُدان، طآیفتان because such words are always used when there are two nouns present in the ayah.
My Translation Then by only this (ayah/truth) of your Lord you both are being denied?
Peace!